POST GAME CLEVELAND - PLAYOFFS ROUND #3 - GAME #2 - HOME

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Re: POST GAME CLEVELAND - PLAYOFFS ROUND #3 - GAME #2 - HOME

Post by worcester on Thu May 17, 2018 10:39 am

Check out this site for our cap numbers next year -

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/cap/2019/

If we dump Morris, Yabu, Nader, and Semi we save $14,416,780 off our salary cap. That would leave us with $108,276,100 in salaries and cap holds when the 2019 luxury tax threshold would be $131,000,000. That figure does NOT include us signing Smart. It does include us resigning Theis. If we don't sign Smart and pay LeBron $30M we'd be $7,000,000 over the luxury cap threshold, which s expensive territory. PLUS we may be responsible for Kyrie Irving's medical bills in an insane asylum. If we don't sign LeBron we would have money to resign Semi and Smart, our first round draft pick, and maybe Morris and still be under the luxury tax threshold.

I don't think it would be ethical to dump Hayward or Kyrie, even though that would allow us to sign LeBron, remarkable talent that he is. I'm happy to move forward as currently structured, with talent and integrity intact.
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Re: POST GAME CLEVELAND - PLAYOFFS ROUND #3 - GAME #2 - HOME

Post by bobheckler on Thu May 17, 2018 10:45 am

worcester wrote:Check out this site for our cap numbers next year -

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/cap/2019/

If we dump Morris, Yabu, Nader, and Semi we save $14,416,780 off our salary cap. That would leave us with $108,276,100 in salaries and cap holds when the 2019 luxury tax threshold would be $131,000,000. That figure does NOT include us signing Smart. It does include us resigning Theis. If we don't sign Smart and pay LeBron $30M we'd be $7,000,000 over the luxury cap threshold, which s expensive territory. PLUS we may be responsible for Kyrie Irving's medical bills in an insane asylum. If we don't sign LeBron we would have money to resign Semi and Smart, our first round draft pick, and maybe Morris and still be under the luxury tax threshold.

I don't think it would be ethical to dump Hayward or Kyrie, even though that would allow us to sign LeBron, remarkable talent that he is. I'm happy to move forward as currently structured, with talent and integrity intact.


worcester,

Yabu, Nader and Semi are as cheap as cheap can be, and you have to fill out the roster with someone. There are contracted roster minimums, 13-14, with a maximum of 15 players.

I don't see LeBron coming here, money or no money.  That would be seen as complete capitulation by him.  Not just a "can't win here" sentiment that he had when he left Cleveland to "take his talents to South Beach", which he was excoriated for, it would be seen as an admission that he cannot beat a good Boston team.  Ever.  I don't see him admitting that, nor wanting to hear other people saying that. We are his nemesis, not his "opportunity".


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Re: POST GAME CLEVELAND - PLAYOFFS ROUND #3 - GAME #2 - HOME

Post by worcester on Thu May 17, 2018 10:48 am

Bob, I'm with you. I don't want to tear up this team to make space for LeBron. I do want us to resign Smart and Semi - Not Nader. maybe not Yabu.
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Re: POST GAME CLEVELAND - PLAYOFFS ROUND #3 - GAME #2 - HOME

Post by cowens/oldschool on Thu May 17, 2018 10:50 am

Lebron talk is fantasy....he ain’t coming here
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Re: POST GAME CLEVELAND - PLAYOFFS ROUND #3 - GAME #2 - HOME

Post by 112288 on Thu May 17, 2018 11:08 am

Hey,

If you are going after title's you go over the salary cap! The money in tax would be peanuts compared to all the merchandising from sports apparel, tickets sales, and advertising revenue. It could amount to close to $50 - $75 million in addition revenue, net that against the cap tax which reduces your taxable income.........it is a home run.

Besides, winning championships increases the value of the team which until sold is tax free as well.

George Steinbrenner used that same model successfully!

112288

112288
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Re: POST GAME CLEVELAND - PLAYOFFS ROUND #3 - GAME #2 - HOME

Post by worcester on Thu May 17, 2018 11:20 am

What's the verdict on Shane Larkin? is he coming back for these playoffs? Will we be resigning him next year? I doubt the latter.

Does it make any sense for us to draft Donte Divincenzo if we get the chance? I know we need a big, but this kid could be special, and the big may come next yera in the draft with Sacto's pick.
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Re: POST GAME CLEVELAND - PLAYOFFS ROUND #3 - GAME #2 - HOME

Post by mrkleen09 on Thu May 17, 2018 11:27 am

I blame this Lebron to Boston stuff on too many days off between games and KD needing something to pontificate about.

No way, no how, no thanks. F*&K Lebron James and the horse he rode in on.
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Re: POST GAME CLEVELAND - PLAYOFFS ROUND #3 - GAME #2 - HOME

Post by bobheckler on Thu May 17, 2018 11:35 am

112288 wrote:Hey,

If you are going after title's you go over the salary cap!  The money in tax would be peanuts compared to all the merchandising from sports apparel, tickets sales, and advertising revenue.  It could amount to close to $50 - $75 million in addition revenue, net that against the cap tax which reduces your taxable income.........it is a home run.

Besides, winning championships increases the value of the team which until sold is tax free as well.

George Steinbrenner used that same model successfully!  

112288

112288


112288,

Here is an article that breaks down how NBA franchises get their money.  The article is from 2016, so it is a bit dated.  The Celtics, according to this, gets about 15% of their revenue from merchandising.  At the high end are the Lakers, about 20%, but that's it.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/baileybrautigan/2016/03/21/where-all-that-money-comes-from-nba-team-valuations-visualized/#20b72079444f


Also, MLB doesn't have an NBA-like salary cap but it does have a luxury tax.  The MLB luxury tax was created after the strike of 1994-5.  George Steinbrenner retired in 2006.  I don't know the exact number, but it is reasonable to assume that the luxury tax the Yankees paid in the first 3-4 years after the luxury tax was created in 1996 were, in part, as a result of contracts they signed before the luxury tax was created.

The Yankees won Championships in 1996, 1998, 1999 and 2000.  That's 4 years in the 10 years Steinbrenner was still running the team post-luxury tax and, as I said, I'll bet the 96-99 teams (and maybe the 2000 team too, since MLB players have longer contracts than NFL and NBA players) had those high-end talents (and contracts) that were signed before the luxury tax was implemented.  In other words, Steinbrenner paid the tax for them but it wasn't something he planned on doing.  He signed them before the strike and the tax.  Any championships the Yankees won before the luxury tax, while admirable of course, aren't relevant to this discussion.

Also, if you travel around the world like I do, there is no sports hat/wear more prolific than NY Yankee hats.  I don't even think most of the people who wear those hats know they are Yankee hats, they just see the "NY" and assume it's all of New York.  That is global marketing that perhaps only the Lakers can match (and, even then, I don't know about recently).


bob


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Re: POST GAME CLEVELAND - PLAYOFFS ROUND #3 - GAME #2 - HOME

Post by worcester on Thu May 17, 2018 11:39 am

Bob, You're right. NY hats predominate everywhere around the world, something for which I have no explanation. However, we did see someone with a Celtics logo plastered to the back of his cell phone when arriving at the end of our pilgrimage to Santiago, Spain. Remember?
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Re: POST GAME CLEVELAND - PLAYOFFS ROUND #3 - GAME #2 - HOME

Post by kdp59 on Thu May 17, 2018 12:11 pm

[quote="112288"]
cowens/oldschool wrote:
112288 wrote:JAMES WILL NOT TAKE MAX SALARY.   ELIMINATE MORRIS AND IT WORKS.  THAT'S $5M MILLION.

THE EQUATION WOULD BALANCE OUT IF PARTIES WORK THE DEAL.

LET'S GET REAL...WE ARE TALKING CHAMPIONSHIPS NOW....NOT MARKETING A BRAND.

PLACES WHERE HE COULD WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP AND MAKE A SALARY CAP FIT IS BOSTON AND PHILLY.............CANNOT DO IT IN HOUSTON OR GOLDEN STATE

LAKERS DO NOT HAVE THE SUPPORTING PLAYERS TO WIN NOR MIL BUCKS AND  INDIANA AS WELL.  TORONTO YOU HAVE A FOREIGN EXCHANGE PROBLEM BETWEEN CURRENCIES ...........BESIDES IT TAKES JAMES OUT OF THE UNITED STATES AND DILUTES HIS MARKETING HIS BRAND.

112288


Morris and who? Morris for James is delusional....

COW,

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT.  JAMES WILL BE A FREE AGENT!  WHAT TRADE?????

THERE WILL BE NO SIGN AND TRADE!  NO ONE WOULD DO THAT WITH JAMES BECOMING AN AGING PLAYER!  HE HAS 3 YEARS MAX LEFT IN HIS GAS TANK AND AFTER THAT HE BECOMES A SIDE SHOW!

112288[/quote

I Said trade!

earlier I pointed out that there were only three teams that had space, that would make any sense fro LeBron to go as a FA and have ANY chance to compete for another ring (which IS what he wants now). Philly, Clevland and maybe the Lakers

no one else can come up with the cap space (or could hope to be a real contender) for Lebron as a Free agent.

but he could opt in next year and force a sign and trade. Thereby giving Cleveland at least some level of compensation back. It would be a win for Cleveland compared to him just walking away.


in that case there could be a more playoff teams now in the mix and the one that is MOST intriguing for LeBron (if he wants more rings before he retires) would be our own Celtics.

Hayward for LeBron would work cap wise . So Hayward and Morris would make sense from Cleveland's perspective.


I think you will be hearing more about this possibility very soon.

but this is ALL just MY conjecture today after hearing two different people on sports talk shows throw it out there yesterday as an aside.


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Re: POST GAME CLEVELAND - PLAYOFFS ROUND #3 - GAME #2 - HOME

Post by 112288 on Thu May 17, 2018 12:22 pm

bobheckler wrote:
112288 wrote:Hey,

If you are going after title's you go over the salary cap!  The money in tax would be peanuts compared to all the merchandising from sports apparel, tickets sales, and advertising revenue.  It could amount to close to $50 - $75 million in addition revenue, net that against the cap tax which reduces your taxable income.........it is a home run.

Besides, winning championships increases the value of the team which until sold is tax free as well.

George Steinbrenner used that same model successfully!  

112288

112288

Bob,

Apple and oranges.  Merchandising is just a small segment from sports wear which your pointed out.  Forbes has a breakdown each year on sports franchises which I am very familiar with.

It does not include ticket price increases, advertising sponsors etc.  Take an average of $40 per seat
increase (lesser amt for noise bleed sections) X 18,500 seats X 41 season games = $30 million right there alone.  Now add your sky box corporate seats, plus advertising sponsors etc. , plus increased merchandising sales > you easily have $50 million Plus in additional revenue.

Here is the website for Yankee's Luxury Tax Payments over the years > https://www.statista.com/statistics/219716/year-by-year-luxury-tax-payments-in-major-league-baseball/

The statistic shows the luxury tax payments of the New York Yankees from 2003 to 2017. For the 2017 season the Yankees paid 15.7 million U.S. dollars in luxury tax.

The Yankees are paying for the 14th straight year since the tax began, raising their total to $325 million.

You pay the tax when you are about to go for the multiple titles, not when you are rebuilding.  Besides we are not talking long term contracts with James. However the Yankees got wise and cut their luxury tax when they went into a rebuilding mode and had a lot of cheap young talent the past few years. The long term deals I believe will be a thing of the past ......too much risk!

BOTTOM LINE THE OWNERS OF THE CELTICS WOULD SLEEP LIKE BABIES KNOWING THEIR FRANCHISE WON ANOTHER TITLE AND THEIR FRANCHISE WHEt UP ANOTHER $100 MILLION IN VALUE BECAUSE OF THAT!

112288,

Here is an article that breaks down how NBA franchises get their money.  The article is from 2016, so it is a bit dated.  The Celtics, according to this, gets about 15% of their revenue from merchandising.  At the high end are the Lakers, about 20%, but that's it.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/baileybrautigan/2016/03/21/where-all-that-money-comes-from-nba-team-valuations-visualized/#20b72079444f


Also, MLB doesn't have an NBA-like salary cap but it does have a luxury tax.  The MLB luxury tax was created after the strike of 1994-5.  George Steinbrenner retired in 2006.  I don't know the exact number, but it is reasonable to assume that the luxury tax the Yankees paid in the first 3-4 years after the luxury tax was created in 1996 were, in part, as a result of contracts they signed before the luxury tax was created.

The Yankees won Championships in 1996, 1998, 1999 and 2000.  That's 4 years in the 10 years Steinbrenner was still running the team post-luxury tax and, as I said, I'll bet the 96-99 teams (and maybe the 2000 team too, since MLB players have longer contracts than NFL and NBA players) had those high-end talents (and contracts) that were signed before the luxury tax was implemented.  In other words, Steinbrenner paid the tax for them but it wasn't something he planned on doing.  He signed them before the strike and the tax.  Any championships the Yankees won before the luxury tax, while admirable of course, aren't relevant to this discussion.

Also, if you travel around the world like I do, there is no sports hat/wear more prolific than NY Yankee hats.  I don't even think most of the people who wear those hats know they are Yankee hats, they just see the "NY" and assume it's all of New York.  That is global marketing that perhaps only the Lakers can match (and, even then, I don't know about recently).


bob


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Re: POST GAME CLEVELAND - PLAYOFFS ROUND #3 - GAME #2 - HOME

Post by jrleftfoot on Thu May 17, 2018 1:09 pm

In South and Central America, it has been my experience that people wearing New York Yankee hats know exactly what they are wearing. Luis Severino was given one for his 11th birthday and says it`s the best gift he ever received. As  to the larger point, it is good business to exceed the salary cap if it accomplishes what every major organization should have as its sine qua non, winning championships.
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Re: POST GAME CLEVELAND - PLAYOFFS ROUND #3 - GAME #2 - HOME

Post by gyso on Thu May 17, 2018 3:56 pm

mrkleen09 wrote:I blame this Lebron to Boston stuff on too many days off between games and KD needing something to pontificate about.

No way, no how, no thanks.  F*&K Lebron James and the horse he rode in on.

+1

If LeBron becomes a Celtics player, there would be a big bonfire in my backyard.  EVERYTHING green would go up in flames and I would disown the Celtics for life.  Seriously.

That being said, it will not happen.  Talk of it is just cray-cray.  Rolling Eyes

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Re: POST GAME CLEVELAND - PLAYOFFS ROUND #3 - GAME #2 - HOME

Post by bobheckler on Thu May 17, 2018 5:02 pm

worcester wrote:Bob, You're right. NY hats predominate everywhere around the world, something for which I have no explanation. However, we did see someone with a Celtics logo plastered to the back of his cell phone when arriving at the end of our pilgrimage to Santiago, Spain. Remember?


Worcester,

Yeah, but he was from Massachusetts and a peregrino too, not a local.


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Re: POST GAME CLEVELAND - PLAYOFFS ROUND #3 - GAME #2 - HOME

Post by bobheckler on Thu May 17, 2018 5:14 pm

Scott Souza
Scott Souza
@Scott_Souza
#Celtics Jaylen Brown on LeBron James in Game 2: I was just trying to match his punches. He came out (shooting) and sometimes you can get discouraged when you see that level of greatness. As long as you keep fighting, and keep throwing punches, in the end we stood on top.
12:10 PM · May 17, 2018


Scott Souza @Scott_Souza
about 1 hour ago
#Celtics Jaylen Brown: "We’ve got a bunch of young trying to make a name for themselves in this league. Why not come out and play hard? Everybody’s saying we’re playing with house money anyway. So why not come out with the energy we need and try to do something special?"


Scott Souza
Scott Souza @Scott_Souza
about 1 hour ago
#Celtics Jaylen Brown: During this postseason my confidence has reached a new ceiling. It's just going up, and going up as we speak. So I don't feel there is anything I can't do on the floor. It's just a matter of doing it.


Scott Souza
Scott Souza @Scott_Souza
2 hours ago
#Celtics Jaylen Brown: It's just my aggression to hit first rather than get hit first. The coaching staff has definitely relayed that message that we can’t come out & get punched in the mouth. I definitely want to be one of the players to spark our team & take the fight to them.



bob


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Re: POST GAME CLEVELAND - PLAYOFFS ROUND #3 - GAME #2 - HOME

Post by dboss on Fri May 18, 2018 12:00 pm

Having Baynes changes so much for this team.

We never could match the physicality of Cleveland because of Tristen Thompson.

Baynes levels the playing field for us.  

What does Cleveland do now?

They will find some comfort in playing in their gym.  They want to blow Boston off the court but as long as Boston continues to defend at a high level they will have a chance to take game 3.

As the playoffs continue the Celtics are getting better.

I am very proud of this team top to bottom.
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