Final Tally On The Kyrie Trade

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Final Tally On The Kyrie Trade

Post by fierce on Wed May 16, 2018 10:19 pm

Celts get Kyrie for IT, Crowder, Zizic, 2018 8th pick from Nets, and 2020 2nd round pick from Miami.

No wonder an unnamed Cavs player called Ainge a thief.

For the Cavs, the centerpiece of the deal was the 2018 Brooklyn pick because it had the potential to be a top 3 pick.
But as the season progressed, the Nets played better than expected.

In the end the the only thing significant the Cavs got from Kyrie is the 8th pick in this year's draft.
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Re: Final Tally On The Kyrie Trade

Post by Ktronic1 on Wed May 16, 2018 11:28 pm

fierce wrote:Celts get Kyrie for IT, Crowder, Zizic, 2018 8th pick from Nets, and 2020 2nd round pick from Miami.

No wonder an unnamed Cavs player called Ainge a thief.

For the Cavs, the centerpiece of the deal was the 2018 Brooklyn pick because it had the potential to be a top 3 pick.
But as the season progressed, the Nets played better than expected.

In the end the the only thing significant the Cavs got from Kyrie is the 8th pick in this year's draft.

cheers Basketball cheers Twisted Evil
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Re: Final Tally On The Kyrie Trade

Post by kdp59 on Thu May 17, 2018 8:37 am

Nance, Clarkson and Hill are there due to the trade also don't forget.

just because those players have not stepped up to playoff caliber play does not mean they are not assets in some form.

it was good deal for us though for sure.

heard some sportstalk yesterday about a LeBron and Kyrie reunion in the near future. Stay tuned.
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Re: Final Tally On The Kyrie Trade

Post by cowens/oldschool on Thu May 17, 2018 9:03 am

What happens if they draft an absolute stud at #8?

GS drafted Curry, Thompson and Green, none were lottery picks.
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Re: Final Tally On The Kyrie Trade

Post by cowens/oldschool on Thu May 17, 2018 9:12 am

kdp59 wrote:Nance, Clarkson and Hill are there due to the trade also don't forget.

just because those players have not stepped up to playoff caliber play does not mean they are not assets in some form.

it was good deal for us though for sure.

heard some  sportstalk yesterday about a LeBron and Kyrie reunion in the near future. Stay tuned.

Off topic, but Lue has got nothing from Clarkson and Nance, Clarkson used to have big scoring games with Lakers and Nance has dirty work capabilities I’m sure they could use. Lue is burning out Lebron and not getting enough from his other players, I suspect he’s letting Lebron do whatever he wants....I know there’s only one Brad Stevens, but you gotta use all your assets and use them in a better way, Lue better come up with a more diversified plan, cause Lebron has had too much of a load whole postseason.
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Re: Final Tally On The Kyrie Trade

Post by bobheckler on Thu May 17, 2018 9:35 am

cowens/oldschool wrote:What happens if they draft an absolute stud at #8?

GS drafted Curry, Thompson and Green, none were lottery picks.


Cowens,

Steph Curry - #7 2009 draft
Klay Thompson - #11 2011 draft


bob



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Re: Final Tally On The Kyrie Trade

Post by cowens/oldschool on Thu May 17, 2018 9:40 am

Thanks bob, this proves you can get talent at #8.
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Re: Final Tally On The Kyrie Trade

Post by fierce on Thu May 17, 2018 10:16 am

cowens/oldschool wrote:What happens if they draft an absolute stud at #8?

GS drafted Curry, Thompson and Green, none were lottery picks.

That could happen.

The point is some of the Celtic fans here last year were upset when Ainge traded that 2018 Brooklyn.
Some here thought that pick might end up in the top 3.

Ainge was proven right when the Brooklyn pick didn't land in the top 3.

If that 2018 Brooklyn pick ended up in the top 3, Celts would still have won the trade 60-40.
But since it's a #8 pick, Celts won the Kyrie trade 80-20.

However, you are correct in saying that #8 pick could end up a stud.

Time will tell
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Re: Final Tally On The Kyrie Trade

Post by fierce on Thu May 17, 2018 10:28 am

We have enough evidence now to call this how it is: The Kyrie Irving trade has been a disaster. Jae Crowder never adjusted to his role here, and Isaiah Thomas never returned to the player he once was. Instead, he was run out of town right about the time he opened his mouth and missed his first shot. The toxicity level was so high at one point during this season in Hiroshima that one Cavs player turned and looked at me after one of many particularly ugly winter losses. “Danny Ainge is a fucking thief,” he said. No explanation needed. 1 hour ago – via The Athletic
Top Rumors, Trade, Isaiah Thomas, Kyrie Irving, Boston Celtics,
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Re: Final Tally On The Kyrie Trade

Post by Shamrock1000 on Thu May 17, 2018 10:47 am

cowens/oldschool wrote:
kdp59 wrote:Nance, Clarkson and Hill are there due to the trade also don't forget.

just because those players have not stepped up to playoff caliber play does not mean they are not assets in some form.

it was good deal for us though for sure.

heard some  sportstalk yesterday about a LeBron and Kyrie reunion in the near future. Stay tuned.

Off topic, but Lue has got nothing from Clarkson and Nance, Clarkson used to have big scoring games with Lakers and Nance has dirty work capabilities I’m sure they could use. Lue is burning out Lebron and not getting enough from his other players, I suspect he’s letting Lebron do whatever he wants....I know there’s only one Brad Stevens, but you gotta use all your assets and use them in a better way, Lue better come up with a more diversified plan, cause Lebron has had too much of a load whole postseason.

This is a great point, and hints at an even bigger theme surrounding this trade - Tyronn Lue is a large part of why it is a disaster for Cleveland. If you look at what Chicago got for Butler and what Indiana got for Paul George, Cleveland got a decent return for Kyrie. By asking for a trade, Kyrie should have limited what the Cavs could get in return - everyone knew they had to trade him. They got a lottery pick - didn't end up being a top 3 pick, but still an immensely valuable asset that has yet to realize its full potential. They got a big man who many thought could have been a lottery pick had he been drafted last summer - another asset whose real value is still uknown. They got Crowder, who was a starter and solid player on a team that went to the ECF. They also got IT, who at the time had just come off a better season than Kyrie and was in MVP conversations. This was a pretty good return for a star who had demanded a trade. The problem is that the Cavs (Lue) couldn't figure out how to use what they got. Brad had no problem getting pretty good play out of Crowder, and Crowder has done well since moving to Utah. This suggests Lue might have been the problem, i.e. he was not clever enough to figure out how to use this guy. To be fair to Lue/Cleveland, it is clear now that IT was more damaged than we all realized. I suspect Danny knew this, and this knowledge was a large part of why h made this trade. Still, it is not clear that IT will never return to form. Even if he gets to 75% of what he was with the Celtics, that is a pretty damn good player. But Cleveland couldn't wait - they were in "win now" mode, and gave up on Crowder and IT before they got healthy and/or before Cleveland figured out how to use them. I also have a sneaking suspicion that Zizic would be developing much better/faster if he were playing under Brad, and would probably do better under a number of NBA coaches not named Lue. We will have to see whether Cleveland makes good use of the number 8 pick, but I think a lot of the reason the Cavs got burned on this deal was because Lue couldn't figure out how to use what they got. One could easily argue that all/most of Lue's decisions were made to appease Lebron and his desire to win now, but the point remains, Cleveland's own incompetence has certainly helped make this bad trade even worse.

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Re: Final Tally On The Kyrie Trade

Post by fierce on Thu May 17, 2018 10:27 pm

The blame game has already started. In the past few days, it was reported that LeBron and Tyronn Lue never wanted to trade Kyrie Irving even if the Nets pick were included (in August, a league sourced told me that James and Lue “cooled” on the deal after learning the extent of Isaiah Thomas’s health concerns), and that LeBron wanted the Cavs to acquire DeAndre Jordan, not the collection of misfits they ended up acquiring at the trade deadline. 4 hours ago – via The Ringer
Top Rumors, Trade, Tyronn Lue, Isaiah Thomas, Kyrie Irving, LeBron James, Boston Celtics, Cleveland Cavaliers
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Re: Final Tally On The Kyrie Trade

Post by KyleCleric on Fri May 18, 2018 12:17 am

It could be Lue. I wonder, though. Does any player truly excel playing with Lebron? It seems like those around him throughout his career have been diminished while playing with him.

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