Ainge Needs An Upgrade

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Re: Ainge Needs An Upgrade

Post by worcester on Mon May 28, 2018 6:55 pm

Smart Swish. Smart.
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Re: Ainge Needs An Upgrade

Post by Ktronic1 on Mon May 28, 2018 7:44 pm

worcester wrote:Cher talking about her small tweaks..
cyclops
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Re: Ainge Needs An Upgrade

Post by fierce on Mon May 28, 2018 9:04 pm

bobheckler wrote:
dboss wrote:
bobheckler wrote:Chris Forsberg
Chris Forsberg @ESPNForsberg
about 13 minutes ago
Danny Ainge on Boston’s summer: "I like this group of guys. We’re not looking to make changes other than just small tweaks here and there to our roster. We really do like this core group of guys that we’ve had all year."


bob


.

Bob

One never can discount Danny's ability to Change course in a heartbeat.

He has 3 main things to consider this summer.

Resigning Marcus Smart and Baynes and picking # 27th in the draft.  One of the partially guaranteed players is probably gone as well.  Monroe is definitely gone.

The Celtics will be a top contender next year with a roster that includes:

Irving, Hayward, Horford, Tatum, Brown, Smart, Rozier, Morris, Baynes and Theis.  Semi and Yabusele should also be in the mix along with the remaining end of roster guys.

Maybe Danny strikes gold with the 27th pick.  It could happen.

Overall Danny does NOT have to make another huge deal but it could happen if the right deal reveals itself to him.



Dboss,

I just post'em, I don't necessarily agree or believe'em.

You would think making the Conference Finals would be a good reason to stand pat, wouldn't you?  And yet, Danny blew up last year's EC Finals team, bringing back only 4 players from that squad.

Danny might be as honest as the day is long in every other facet of his life, but when it comes to who is safe, who is untouchable, and who is/will be shopped I believe what he says about as far as I can throw him.



bob


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Exactly!

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Re: Ainge Needs An Upgrade

Post by fierce on Mon May 28, 2018 9:16 pm

Look further back when Ainge first took over in the summer of 2003.

In 2002, the Celts made it to the east finals with Antoine Walker and Paul Pierce.
The following year, Ainge was hired to lead the Celtic front office.
His first move as the new director of basketball operations was to trade Antoine Walker.

Clearly Ainge will not hesitate to trade anybody if he thinks it will improve the team.
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Re: Ainge Needs An Upgrade

Post by mrkleen09 on Mon May 28, 2018 9:19 pm

The Celtics lost this series due to two issues, neither of which is cause for a fire sale.

A) Youth showing its head on a number of occasions, occasions that will become fewer and further between as Brown, Tatum and Rozier grow as players and add tho their games.

B) Kyrie and Gordon Hayward being out.

If either A or B did not happen or were even minimized (example only Hayward out), Celtics would have won. The idea that they need to flip the team upside down to stop a 34 year old player is silly.

I believe the exact opposite is true - it is Cleveland (or anyone else that hopes to compete in the East) that will need to flip their team to MATCH THE CELTICS.
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Re: Ainge Needs An Upgrade

Post by fierce on Mon May 28, 2018 9:29 pm

mrkleen09 wrote:The Celtics lost this series due to two issues, neither of which is cause for a fire sale.

A) Youth showing its head on a number of occasions, occasions that will become fewer and further between as Brown, Tatum and Rozier grow as players and add tho their games.

B) Kyrie and Gordon Hayward being out.

If either A or B did not happen or were even minimized (example only Hayward out), Celtics would have won.  The idea that they need to flip the team upside down to stop a 34 year old player is silly.

I believe the exact opposite is true - it is Cleveland (or anyone else that hopes to compete in the East) that will need to flip their team to MATCH THE CELTICS.

It's not a fire sale.

Only significant player that the Celts will lose is Jaylen Brown.

Rozier will not be as significant once Kyrie comes back.

Celts already have Smart as Kyrie's backup.

The question we have to ask is it an upgrade if we lose Jaylen and Rozier for Kawhi Leonard, a Finals MVP and a 2-time defensive player of the year awardee?
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Re: Ainge Needs An Upgrade

Post by cowens/oldschool on Mon May 28, 2018 9:30 pm

Good points kleen
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Re: Ainge Needs An Upgrade

Post by mrkleen09 on Mon May 28, 2018 9:38 pm

fierce wrote:
It's not a fire sale.

Only significant player that the Celts will lose is Jaylen Brown.

Rozier will not be as significant once Kyrie comes back.

Celts already have Smart as Kyrie's backup.

The question we have to ask is it an upgrade if we lose Jaylen and Rozier for Kawhi Leonard, a Finals MVP and a 2-time defensive player of the year awardee?

We already have our own Kawhi in Jason Tatum. We dont need an often injured, head case on this team. Jaylen Brown is a stud and is on an affordable deal. No decision needs to be made about Rozier for 12 months.

The Celtics with Kyrie and Gordon are the FAVORITES to win the East and probably the NBA title on day one. No need for this kind of shakeup for the sake of a shakeup.

The only players I would even consider are big men. Davis or Towns. Otherwise, no need, no thanks.
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Re: Ainge Needs An Upgrade

Post by worcester on Mon May 28, 2018 9:49 pm

Rather than speculate, I enjoy waiting for and watching Danny's moves. In the end they are more fantastic than anything I can imagine.
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Re: Ainge Needs An Upgrade

Post by fierce on Mon May 28, 2018 9:54 pm

mrkleen09 wrote:
fierce wrote:  
It's not a fire sale.

Only significant player that the Celts will lose is Jaylen Brown.

Rozier will not be as significant once Kyrie comes back.

Celts already have Smart as Kyrie's backup.

The question we have to ask is it an upgrade if we lose Jaylen and Rozier for Kawhi Leonard, a Finals MVP and a 2-time defensive player of the year awardee?

We already have our own Kawhi in Jason Tatum.  We dont need an often injured, head case on this team.  Jaylen Brown is a stud and is on an affordable deal.  No decision needs to be made about Rozier for 12 months.  

The Celtics with Kyrie and Gordon are the FAVORITES to win the East and probably the NBA title on day one.  No need for this kind of shakeup for the sake of a shakeup.

The only players I would even consider are big men.  Davis or Towns.  Otherwise, no need, no thanks.

Kawhi has no history of being a head case or injury prone.
It was only last season that he had a problem with the Spurs.

This is not a shakeup for the sake of shakeup.

Rozier will be the 3rd PG behind Kyrie and Smart.

Jaylen Brown is a stud and on an affordable deal, true.
That's why the Spurs will want him in a trade for Kawhi.

I can understand if you don't want the trade.
But saying that Kawhi is a head case and often injured is not accurate.
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Re: Ainge Needs An Upgrade

Post by fierce on Mon May 28, 2018 9:58 pm

If it were up to Celtic fans, there would've been no Kyrie Irving trade to Boston.
A lot of Celtic fans here were upset when Ainge did that Kyrie for IT trade a year ago.

After seeing Kyrie in green for a few months, Celtic fans fell in love with Kyrie.

There's no doubt Ainge will not hesitate to trade anybody if he thinks it will improve the team.
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Re: Ainge Needs An Upgrade

Post by worcester on Mon May 28, 2018 10:04 pm

Fierce. Saying Kawhi has no history of being injury prone is like saying Magic had no medical issues except fof being HIV positive. I like Kawhi but I doubt that he is healthy. And if he were, trading so much talent for him would hurt our bench. But you are right, we would have one hell of a starting five.
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Re: Ainge Needs An Upgrade

Post by bobheckler on Mon May 28, 2018 10:05 pm

fierce wrote:
mrkleen09 wrote:
fierce wrote:  
It's not a fire sale.

Only significant player that the Celts will lose is Jaylen Brown.

Rozier will not be as significant once Kyrie comes back.

Celts already have Smart as Kyrie's backup.

The question we have to ask is it an upgrade if we lose Jaylen and Rozier for Kawhi Leonard, a Finals MVP and a 2-time defensive player of the year awardee?

We already have our own Kawhi in Jason Tatum.  We dont need an often injured, head case on this team.  Jaylen Brown is a stud and is on an affordable deal.  No decision needs to be made about Rozier for 12 months.  

The Celtics with Kyrie and Gordon are the FAVORITES to win the East and probably the NBA title on day one.  No need for this kind of shakeup for the sake of a shakeup.

The only players I would even consider are big men.  Davis or Towns.  Otherwise, no need, no thanks.

Kawhi has no history of being a head case or injury prone.
It was only last season that he had a problem with the Spurs.

This is not a shakeup for the sake of shakeup.

Rozier will be the 3rd PG behind Kyrie and Smart.

Jaylen Brown is a stud and on an affordable deal, true.
That's why the Spurs will want him in a trade for Kawhi.

I can understand if you don't want the trade.
But saying that Kawhi is a head case and often injured is not accurate.


He doesn't have a reputation of being a headcase, he has a reputation for being very quiet.

His injury scares me, a lot.  He only played 9 games last year, a total of 210 minutes, and there is still no consensus on wtf his injury was/is in the first place!  How can we know if he's healthy or not when we don't know why he was unhealthy in the first place?  The fact that this was his first significant injury year doesn't matter if one cannot be confident that it will be his last.



bob


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Re: Ainge Needs An Upgrade

Post by sinus007 on Mon May 28, 2018 10:10 pm

Fierce,
Once again, Celtics don't need KL to counteract Lebron - we can do it successfully, IMO, with our current core of JL, JT, KI, GH, AH, TR and Morris ( I didn't mentioned Smart because he may not be out for '18-'19 season).
As for whether KL is gamble or isn't, my money is on "is". The reasons for that are a) we don't know the real status of his injury, b) we don't know the status of the "mental" side and, c) the mere fact that he's trying to get out of such organization and coach as SAS and Pop does raise a flag.
Of course, Danny may know the actual state of affair, but if he does he hasn't share it with me; therefore I have to rely on the above mentioned reasons.

AK
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Re: Ainge Needs An Upgrade

Post by mrkleen09 on Mon May 28, 2018 10:11 pm

Even taking this season out of the mix, Kawai Leonard averages 66 games per season - or 83% of the possible games. Not sure if that qualifies him as 'injury prone', but he is far from durable.

As for the "head case", how else would you describe a player that refused to come back this season - even after being cleared to play by his team? Selfish?

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2760822-report-kawhi-leonard-choosing-not-to-return-to-active-roster-from-quad-injury

https://www.slamonline.com/uncategorized/report-kawhi-leonard-sitting-medically-cleared-play/

A) I dont see anything in any way, shape or form that Kawai Leonard brings that Jaylen and Jason dont already bring - in a younger, cheaper, more athletic package.

B)We dont need another max player who isnt named Davis.

C) No thanks.

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Re: Ainge Needs An Upgrade

Post by worcester on Mon May 28, 2018 10:21 pm

Actually I would trade Morris for Kawhi even if Kawhi were in a cast for 8 months.
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Re: Ainge Needs An Upgrade

Post by Ktronic1 on Mon May 28, 2018 10:35 pm

mrkleen09 wrote:The Celtics lost this series due to two issues, neither of which is cause for a fire sale.

A) Youth showing its head on a number of occasions, occasions that will become fewer and further between as Brown, Tatum and Rozier grow as players and add tho their games.

B) Kyrie and Gordon Hayward being out.

If either A or B did not happen or were even minimized (example only Hayward out), Celtics would have won.  The idea that they need to flip the team upside down to stop a 34 year old player is silly.

I believe the exact opposite is true - it is Cleveland (or anyone else that hopes to compete in the East) that will need to flip their team to MATCH THE CELTICS.
And they still would’ve won without those 2 if Rozier and Brown had made only 30% of their shots in game 7.
I have no problems with Danny making moves if its going to make this team even better. (See GW and KD)
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Re: Ainge Needs An Upgrade

Post by mrkleen09 on Mon May 28, 2018 10:54 pm

Ktronic1 wrote:  
And they still would’ve won without those 2 if Rozier and Brown had made only 30% of their shots in game 7.
I have no problems with Danny making moves if its going to make this team even better. (See GW and KD)

I agree- and the point is you dont have to do anything to make your team better.  All you have to do is unlock the gym in September and the guys who show up are already better by default. If Golden State had their two best players injured when they lost to the Cavs, they wouldnt have had to go out and get Durant.

I dont in anyway see how getting rid of Brown, Rozier AND a potential top 5 pick for Leonard makes the team better

And I disagree with the whole premise of this thread

fierce wrote:Ainge needs to find an answer for Lebron.

DA already has an answer to Lebron.  It is called a balanced team full of young stars.
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Re: Ainge Needs An Upgrade

Post by Ktronic1 on Mon May 28, 2018 11:05 pm

worcester wrote:Actually I would trade Morris for Kawhi even if Kawhi were in a cast for 8 months.
lol!
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Re: Ainge Needs An Upgrade

Post by Ktronic1 on Mon May 28, 2018 11:10 pm

mrkleen09 wrote:
Ktronic1 wrote:  
And they still would’ve won without those 2 if Rozier and Brown had made only 30% of their shots in game 7.
I have no problems with Danny making moves if its going to make this team even better. (See GW and KD)

I agree- and the point is you dont have to do anything to make your team better.  All you have to do is unlock the gym in September and the guys who show up are already better by default. If Golden State had their two best players injured when they lost to the Cavs, they wouldnt have had to go out and get Durant.

I dont in anyway see how getting rid of Brown, Rozier AND a potential top 5 pick for Leonard makes the team better

And I disagree with the whole premise of this thread

fierce wrote:Ainge needs to find an answer for Lebron.

DA already has an answer to Lebron.  It is called a balanced team full of young stars.

Okay, it doesn’t necessarily have to Leonard but if you can improve your team with Davis or Townes, I would think you’d do it. If we can get better get better. I don’t quite understand what you mean when you wrote this-

“Golden State had their two best players injured when they lost to the Cavs, they wouldnt have had to go out and get Durant.” ??
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Re: Ainge Needs An Upgrade

Post by mrkleen09 on Mon May 28, 2018 11:33 pm

Ktronic1 wrote: Okay, it doesn’t necessarily have to Leonard but if you can improve your team with Davis or Townes, I would think you’d do it. If we can get better get better.  

Which is what I already said twice in this tread

mrkleen09 wrote: The only players I would even consider are big men.  Davis or Towns.  Otherwise, no need, no thanks.
mrkleen09 wrote:B)We dont need another max player who isnt named Davis.

Ktronic1 wrote: I don’t quite understand what you mean when you wrote this-

“Golden State had their two best players injured when they lost to the Cavs, they wouldnt have had to go out and get Durant.” ??

I mean that the Warriors went out and got Durant to better compete with Lebron because they didnt feel they had enough to beat him.

BUT If they had two players of the caliber of Kyrie Irving and Gordon Hayward on their team and they were injured the year they lost to the Cavs, they would have had no need to go get Durant - all they would have had to do is stand pat and wait for their players to get healthy.

The Celtics with Kyrie would have handily beat the Cavs
The Celtics with Kyrie and Hayward would have easily beat the Cavs
The Celtics with the team they had and an even decent shooting % in game 7 would have beat the Cavs

There is no need to add anyone to beat the Cavs. You replace swappable pieces like Monroe, Morris, Larkin - you resign Baynes, Smart and you wait for Kyrie, Gordon and Daniel to come into camp healthy.
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Re: Ainge Needs An Upgrade

Post by Ktronic1 on Mon May 28, 2018 11:39 pm

mrkleen09 wrote:
Ktronic1 wrote: Okay, it doesn’t necessarily have to Leonard but if you can improve your team with Davis or Townes, I would think you’d do it. If we can get better get better.  

Which is what I already said twice in this tread

mrkleen09 wrote: The only players I would even consider are big men.  Davis or Towns.  Otherwise, no need, no thanks.
mrkleen09 wrote:B)We dont need another max player who isnt named Davis.

Ktronic1 wrote: I don’t quite understand what you mean when you wrote this-

“Golden State had their two best players injured when they lost to the Cavs, they wouldnt have had to go out and get Durant.” ??

I mean that the Warriors went out and got Durant to better compete with Lebron because they didnt feel they had enough to beat him.  

BUT If they had two players of the caliber of Kyrie Irving and Gordon Hayward on their team and they were injured the year they lost to the Cavs, they would have had no need to go get Durant - all they would have had to do is stand pat and wait for their players to get healthy.

The Celtics with Kyrie would have handily beat the Cavs
The Celtics with Kyrie and Hayward would have easily beat the Cavs
The Celtics with the team they had and an even decent shooting % in game 7 would have beat the Cavs

There is no need to add anyone to beat the Cavs.  You replace swappable pieces like Monroe, Morris, Larkin - you resign Baynes, Smart and you wait for Kyrie, Gordon and Daniel to come into camp healthy.  

Thanks for clearing that up. Quick question now. Are we trying to just beat the Cavs or are we trying to win a title? Next year with Gordon and Kyrie back means its almost a lock that we’ll overcome the Cavs. But...are we good enough to beat the Warriors? Right now i believe the answer is no. If I’m right than we need to get better.
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Re: Ainge Needs An Upgrade

Post by gyso on Mon May 28, 2018 11:56 pm

Ainge needs a tweak. This thread lost me at "Kawhi is our answer".

No

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Re: Ainge Needs An Upgrade

Post by swish on Tue May 29, 2018 12:13 am

Unless Brad has Hayward, Brown or Tatum penciled in for power forward next year - I would expect to see one of the three riding the pine at crunch time - while at the center, power-forward position it figures to be Horford and Morris or Baynes and Horford at crunch time - so count me in as one who would like to see Danny trade for a big of equal value for anyone of our three young shooters. Not easy perhaps - but it just might be doable.

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Re: Ainge Needs An Upgrade

Post by cowens/oldschool on Tue May 29, 2018 12:19 am

fierce wrote:
mrkleen09 wrote:
fierce wrote:  
It's not a fire sale.

Only significant player that the Celts will lose is Jaylen Brown.

Rozier will not be as significant once Kyrie comes back.

Celts already have Smart as Kyrie's backup.

The question we have to ask is it an upgrade if we lose Jaylen and Rozier for Kawhi Leonard, a Finals MVP and a 2-time defensive player of the year awardee?

We already have our own Kawhi in Jason Tatum.  We dont need an often injured, head case on this team.  Jaylen Brown is a stud and is on an affordable deal.  No decision needs to be made about Rozier for 12 months.

 

The Celtics with Kyrie and Gordon are the FAVORITES to win the East and probably the NBA title on day one.  No need for this kind of shakeup for the sake of a shakeup.

The only players I would even consider are big men.  Davis or Towns.  Otherwise, no need, no thanks.

Kawhi has no history of being a head case or injury prone.

It was only last season that he had a problem with the Spurs.

This is not a shakeup for the sake of shakeup.

Rozier will be the 3rd PG behind Kyrie and Smart.

Jaylen Brown is a stud and on an affordable deal, true.

That's why the Spurs will want him in a trade for Kawhi.

I can understand if you don't want the trade.
But saying that Kawhi is a head case and often injured is not accurate.


Check your stats on games played, he plays between 65-70 games every year, for a young franchise player, he should be on the floor more. This year he is a head case is the only reason he may be available, gonna need a long sit down and I still wouldn’t do it.
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