What would you trade in order to move up to draft Mo Bamba?

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What would you trade in order to move up to draft Mo Bamba?

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Total Votes : 11

Re: What would you trade in order to move up to draft Mo Bamba?

Post by jrleftfoot on Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:55 pm

fierce wrote:No way Ainge trades Kyrie Irving.

The trio of Kyrie, Hayward, and Horford will not be traded.
Agree re Irving. He`s a top 10 player in the league.
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Re: What would you trade in order to move up to draft Mo Bamba?

Post by cowens/oldschool on Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:08 pm

Bamba looks like a freakish defensive prospect, in the right situation he potentially could be something like the next Bill Russell, at least in the half court, as read he is not a great runner. If we are sure Smart will resign, could see us offering Rozier and some package of picks, but I don’t think that would be enough if I’m in position to draft Bamba. That would be as far as I would go, as 2 J’s are future all stars for a long time, are untouchable to me.
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Re: What would you trade in order to move up to draft Mo Bamba?

Post by NYCelt on Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:17 pm

I voted Jaylen Brown with one of either Memphis or Sacto pick, but that may not be enough to get it done. My guess is it would take our #27 as well.

I don't think Rozier is enough to move the needle either, so I think it would have to be Brown. I don't see any way Hayward comes back totally without compromise from that injury, so my guess is he's 2-guard, with Tatum at the other wing/SF. The biggest needs are to improve rebounding and interior defense and have Horford's replacement in the works. With the off-guard/wing covered, Brown seems the likely one to move. He also should have more value than Rozier to some of the teams we would need to deal with. Rozier also might be worth keeping around in case Irving bolts at the end of his deal.

On a separate note, tons of internet chatter today on Brown getting dealt to the Mavs in a package for their pick, even prompting a head-shaking response from Brown. A couple of larger media outlets getting into the act, not that instant credibility comes with those any more. I'm sure Brown is tired of it already. Although all the online talk could be total BS, it does originate from scenarios that make sense, so it probably doesn't die down until after the draft.
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Re: What would you trade in order to move up to draft Mo Bamba?

Post by cowens/oldschool on Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:18 pm

NYCelt wrote:I voted Jaylen Brown with one of either Memphis or Sacto pick, but that may not be enough to get it done. My guess is it would take our #27 as well.

I don't think Rozier is enough to move the needle either, so I think it would have to be Brown. I don't see any way Hayward comes back totally without compromise from that injury, so my guess is he's 2-guard, with Tatum at the other wing/SF. The biggest needs are to improve rebounding and interior defense and have Horford's replacement in the works. With the off-guard/wing covered, Brown seems the likely one to move. He also should have more value than Rozier to some of the teams we would need to deal with. Rozier also might be worth keeping around in case Irving bolts at the end of his deal.

On a separate note, tons of internet chatter today on Brown getting dealt to the Mavs in a package for their pick, even prompting a head-shaking response from Brown. A couple of larger media outlets getting into the act, not that instant credibility comes with those any more. I'm sure Brown is tired of it already. Although all the online talk could be total BS, it does originate from scenarios that make sense, so it probably doesn't die down until after the draft.

If it takes Brown I don’t do the deal, we know what Brown is and we know how much better he will get. What happens if Hayward can never get quite right? Until we see Bamba play, we don’t know how he’ll do at this level, for all his great attributes, all reports say his motor is suspect, can he defend in space and on perimeter? We still have other options with picks to land a big in the near future....
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Re: What would you trade in order to move up to draft Mo Bamba?

Post by fierce on Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:29 pm

jrleftfoot wrote:
fierce wrote:No way Ainge trades Kyrie Irving.

The trio of Kyrie, Hayward, and Horford will not be traded.
Agree re Irving. He`s a top 10 player in the league.

I think Kyrie is top 5 in the league.

Once his movie, "Uncle Drew", comes out this summer, Kyrie will even be more popular.
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Re: What would you trade in order to move up to draft Mo Bamba?

Post by fierce on Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:31 pm

I agree that Jaylen Brown should not be included in a deal for Bamba.

It's just not practical.

If you're going to trade Jaylen Brown, who's a future all-star, you should also trade him for another all-star.

That's why to me a package involving picks, Rozier, and Jaylen for Kawhi is fair.
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Re: What would you trade in order to move up to draft Mo Bamba?

Post by NYCelt on Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:47 pm

Cow,

Hayward's ability to return is a concern I share with you.

I've said before, I'd actually prefer to deal him over Brown (or Tatum). The fact that other teams would never go for it due to the risk involved makes trading Hayward about the last thing that would happen to the current roster. Part of my rationale on dealing Brown is that I'd be willing to gamble on Hayward's return to land a defense building, rebounding big.

I'm still not sure why the reports on Bamba taking it light on occasion. I've never seen any evidence of it. Of course, I haven't seen all his games, either.

Not a part of this poll, but I'd be willing to look at a similar deal to land Carter, or maybe add a pick, a body, or both, to a deal that gets Bagley.

You could say I'm looking at it as go big or go home.

Regards
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Re: What would you trade in order to move up to draft Mo Bamba?

Post by fierce on Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:57 pm

Hayward is untouchable.

He came to Boston because him and Brad Stevens have unfinished business.
Both Brad and Hayward lost a national championship game in college.
What Brad and Hayward are trying to do is win a championship together.

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Re: What would you trade in order to move up to draft Mo Bamba?

Post by NYCelt on Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:01 pm

I don't think Hayward is going anywhere either, as I said above.

I do think the Stevens and Hayward connection is way over-played though. I think Stevens being in Boston was certainly a nice plus for Hayward, but not the driving force.
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Re: What would you trade in order to move up to draft Mo Bamba?

Post by fierce on Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:04 pm

NYCelt wrote:I don't think Hayward is going anywhere either, as I said above.

I do think the Stevens and Hayward connection is way over-played though. I think Stevens being in Boston was certainly a nice plus for Hayward, but not the driving force.

It's about relationships.

Why would Hayward pick Miami?

Reason why Hayward became a Celtic is because of Brad Stevens and nothing else.

I'm sure Hayward would've returned to the Jazz if not for Brad Stevens.

Hayward would've made more money by staying with the Jazz.
He's also like a hero to Jazz fans.
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Re: What would you trade in order to move up to draft Mo Bamba?

Post by NYCelt on Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:09 pm

fierce wrote:
NYCelt wrote:I don't think Hayward is going anywhere either, as I said above.

I do think the Stevens and Hayward connection is way over-played though. I think Stevens being in Boston was certainly a nice plus for Hayward, but not the driving force.

It's about relationships.

Why would Hayward pick Miami?

Reason why Hayward became a Celtic is because of Brad Stevens and nothing else.

I'm sure Hayward would've returned to the Jazz if not for Brad Stevens.

Hayward would've made more money by staying with the Jazz.
He's also like a hero to Jazz fans.

Sorry; I just can't buy that.

In professional sports, where any coach or player can be moved at any time, there has to be more to it.

I think ownership's clear intention to build a contender had to be a major factor. Starting with signing Horford, and several other moves, Boston has become a more attractive destination. Stevens is a part of that, yes.

...but this thread is about trading for a pick to land Bamba. I only mentioned Hayward as he relates to that topic.
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Re: What would you trade in order to move up to draft Mo Bamba?

Post by kdp59 on Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:10 am

NYCelt wrote:Cow,

Hayward's ability to return is a concern I share with you.

I've said before, I'd actually prefer to deal him over Brown (or Tatum). The fact that other teams would never go for it due to the risk involved makes trading Hayward about the last thing that would happen to the current roster. Part of my rationale on dealing Brown is that I'd be willing to gamble on Hayward's return to land a defense building, rebounding big.

I'm still not sure why the reports on Bamba taking it light on occasion. I've never seen any evidence of it. Of course, I haven't seen all his games, either.

Not a part of this poll, but I'd be willing to look at a similar deal to land Carter, or maybe add a pick, a body, or both, to a deal that gets Bagley.

You could say I'm looking at it as go big or go home.

Regards

nycelt,

I am curious, if you had the top pick in this draft, with the current Celtic roster who would you pick?

I am leaning to Bagley as the guy i wold pick #1 overall, as I feel his skill set fits better with Stevens style over Ayton.

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Re: What would you trade in order to move up to draft Mo Bamba?

Post by gyso on Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:14 am

I should have added one mo choice in the pool above. Rather, a mo-less option. It seems that many do not believe Rosier and picks will be enough to move up to reach mo area. The other choice is:

Do nothing this summer and wait until next season to use the traded picks to get our future big man.

gyso

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Re: What would you trade in order to move up to draft Mo Bamba?

Post by KyleCleric on Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:24 am

gyso wrote:I should have added one mo choice in the pool above.  Rather, a mo-less option.  It seems that many do not believe Rosier and picks will be enough to move up to reach mo area.  The other choice is:

Do nothing this summer and wait until next season to use the traded picks to get our future big man.

gyso


There's also a combination of trading partners possibility to get up for Mo. We could move Morris or Rozier for a mid round pick and use that to move for Bamba. One of those teams may really like a Williams, Knox, or Bridges and be happy to net a future pick or other asset as opposed to dropping toward a late 1st.

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Re: What would you trade in order to move up to draft Mo Bamba?

Post by fierce on Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:23 am

gyso wrote:I should have added one mo choice in the pool above.  Rather, a mo-less option.  It seems that many do not believe Rosier and picks will be enough to move up to reach mo area.  The other choice is:

Do nothing this summer and wait until next season to use the traded picks to get our future big man.

gyso

The problem with next year's draft is it's loaded with wings.

No big men like Ayton or Bamba next year.
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Re: What would you trade in order to move up to draft Mo Bamba?

Post by atcross on Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:22 pm

I haven't studied the stats or history but spending good assets to draft a promising big seems risky. Past high pick bigs have been very hit and miss. Bigs get extra consideration based solely on size (i.e., you can't teach height). But size also seems to bring the liability of fragile bodies, especially since many of the bigs coming out lack the weight and strength to hold their position under the basket. And in some cases their feet, ankles, and knees may never be up to the rigors of the NBA. It might get even worse as they put on weight. Also, as Tommy has noted, many bigs are playing basketball because they are big, not because they love the game and competition. Considering the number of misses (e.g., Oden) vs. the hits (e.g., Davis) I would be leary of spending too much on the rights to an unknown. Of course, once they are a known they are much harder to come by. You'll pay a king's ransom for Davis or Embide now. But none of the last four teams standing had superstar bigs. Considering how well Baynes is working in the current team and system, I think I would rather spend major assets like Rozier on players who are more known quantities.

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Re: What would you trade in order to move up to draft Mo Bamba?

Post by dboss on Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:33 pm

I think the focus here has competing themes.

One deals with positional needs and the other deals with value.  The cost associated with a positional need has focused on both certain players and certain future draft picks (future prospects)  The value of this is speculative.

This issue is further complicated by team payroll, length of current and future contracts, positional depth on the team, needs of trading partners, the impact of injured players and their future expected productively.  There are probably other variables in play as well.

I can find no strong argument against the need to acquire a center.  How the teams goes about doing that is always debatable.  But since this thread is focused on draft prospects my comments do not contemplate free agency or trades for a vurrent NBA center.

Rozier and Jaylen Brown have different values.  Draft picks have different values.  I will state that Jaylen has more than value than Rozier.  Would I move Jaylen to get a shot at Ayton?  Probably not because the value of a modern athetic 3 and D wing with upside is greater than a center prospect with upside.

I am talking about a straight up trade.  Add a lottery pick and combine it with Brown and the value is way too high to consider it as fair compensation for the #1 pick.  You have to be talking an Anthony Davis type of player before I get interested.

Brown looks like a future allstar at the 2 on both sides of the ball.  He goes from 6.6 ppg as a rookie to 14.5 in his second year and then pushes that up to 18 ppg in the playoffs.  Brown is no longer a question mark.  We know and he knows that he is a baller and it is reasonable to assume that he is going to get better.  If you are this good at 21 you should be even better at 24.

Rozier is a backup PG on a team with a superstar PG in KI.  Brown is our starting SG and I do not think that anyone on this team is as good or better for that position. This further enhances Jaylen's value on this team over Rozier.  So if you decide to move Brown and a pick or two it has to be for something more that the right to draft a center prospect at #1.
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Re: What would you trade in order to move up to draft Mo Bamba?

Post by Shamrock1000 on Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:35 pm

I can't imagine giving up Brown and the Sacto pick for the chance to draft Mamba. Brown is already the type of player you hope to get with a top pick, so why pay $1.50 for the chance to win a $1.00? It's not like Mamba is a sure thing. I think people here are assigning too much value to the 5th pick. Rozier and the Sacto pick seems more reasonable. One could easily argue that Rozier is also playing like a top pick. Brown straight-up or Brown plus a lass valuable pick also seems more reasonable, though I wouldn't even do that. Really doesn't matter what any of us think though, Danny has more than earned the benefit of the doubt when it comes to these decisions.

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Re: What would you trade in order to move up to draft Mo Bamba?

Post by dboss on Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:38 pm

Shamrock1000 wrote:I can't imagine giving up Brown and the Sacto pick for the chance to draft Mamba. Brown is already the type of player you hope to get with a top pick, so why pay $1.50 for the chance to win a $1.00? It's not like Mamba is a sure thing. I think people here are assigning too much value to the 5th pick. Rozier and the Sacto pick seems more reasonable. One could easily argue that Rozier is also playing like a top pick. Brown straight-up or Brown plus a lass valuable pick also seems more reasonable, though I wouldn't even do that. Really doesn't matter what any of us think though, Danny has more than earned the benefit of the doubt when it comes to these decisions.
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Re: What would you trade in order to move up to draft Mo Bamba?

Post by gyso on Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:09 pm

atcross wrote:I haven't studied the stats or history but spending good assets to draft a promising big seems risky. Past high pick bigs have been very hit and miss. Bigs get extra consideration based solely on size (i.e., you can't teach height). But size also seems to bring the liability of fragile bodies, especially since many of the bigs coming out lack the weight and strength to hold their position under the basket. And in some cases their feet, ankles, and knees may never be up to the rigors of the NBA. It might get even worse as they put on weight. Also, as Tommy has noted, many bigs are playing basketball because they are big, not because they love the game and competition. Considering the number of misses (e.g., Oden) vs. the hits (e.g., Davis) I would be leary of spending too much on the rights to an unknown. Of course, once they are a known they are much harder to come by. You'll pay a king's ransom for Davis or Embide now. But none of the last four teams standing had superstar bigs. Considering how well Baynes is working in the current team and system, I think I would rather spend major assets like Rozier on players who are more known quantities.  

"But none of the last four teams standing had superstar bigs."

I agree, but some will argue that next year Philly will be one of the last four teams standing. You include the answer to that argument in your post, their big may too fragile to last another entire season, so why worry about something now that may never happen?

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Re: What would you trade in order to move up to draft Mo Bamba?

Post by NYCelt on Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:05 pm

kdp59 wrote:
NYCelt wrote:Cow,

Hayward's ability to return is a concern I share with you.

I've said before, I'd actually prefer to deal him over Brown (or Tatum). The fact that other teams would never go for it due to the risk involved makes trading Hayward about the last thing that would happen to the current roster. Part of my rationale on dealing Brown is that I'd be willing to gamble on Hayward's return to land a defense building, rebounding big.

I'm still not sure why the reports on Bamba taking it light on occasion. I've never seen any evidence of it. Of course, I haven't seen all his games, either.

Not a part of this poll, but I'd be willing to look at a similar deal to land Carter, or maybe add a pick, a body, or both, to a deal that gets Bagley.

You could say I'm looking at it as go big or go home.

Regards

nycelt,

I am curious, if you had the top pick in this draft, with the current Celtic roster who would you pick?

I am leaning to Bagley as the guy i wold pick #1 overall, as I feel his skill set fits better with Stevens style over Ayton.


kdp,

You're giving me a license to steal? OK! If I had the #1 pick, and I was picking for Boston, my order of preference...

1. Bamba
-----------
2. Jackson
3. Ayton
4. Carter
5. Bagley

I'll even explain my thinking in three words; defense, rebounding, shot-blocking (Okay, it's a hyphenated word. I still count 3).

My wish list order has even changed a bit through the late Winter and workouts, etc.

So, I make it Bamba, and throw in my next 4 faves for the record, and so they can take a bow.

I think the Celtics need a big who can defend much more than a big who can stretch the floor and shoot the 3 a la Olynyk. Could have kept Kelly for that one. With more rebounding and interior defense, I think the bulk of the current Boston roster takes down Cleveland and maybe, just maybe, Golden State. There are enough shooters. There are guys who can get to the rim and score. A young big who can clean up around the rim, take pressure off Horford, and eventually replace him, makes the most sense to me. Ayton and Bagley have both displayed questionable defense. Coach K would have liked to have come out of that 2- 3 zone a little, but couldn't out of fear of Bagley getting beat. Ayton gets behind on defensive switches and has trouble keeping up with quick forwards, but has enough potential and a wicked enough all around offensive game that I'd slightly alter my theme and put him ahead of Carter. Jackson is just enough of a fearless Kamikaze on D that I'd risk his tender young age and still developing frame.

If it's strictly defense, NBA monster defense, give me Bamba, Jackson and Carter in that order.

I would absolutely roll around on the floor giggling like a 3-year old if we somehow ended up with any of those 5. I think they're all going to contribute significantly in the NBA for a long time. I think Bamba's got the potential to lead the NBA right back to the big-man, gimme the D, 7' tall, 7' wing-span, center.

I left off Porter due to his back. Unfortunately, I see Porter as a future Sully in my guess-book. I left out Knox because of size and the fact that I expect him to be an NBA SF. We're a little more than set there!

Somewhere, in another thread I think it was, I left my big man picks at #27. Big is the word.

Regards


Last edited by NYCelt on Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: What would you trade in order to move up to draft Mo Bamba?

Post by swish on Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:10 pm

The Celtics next year will start the season with shooting skills that will without doubt rival the Warriors.
 See below link.

  http://bkref.com/tiny/AFTQ8

 Five players with outstanding 3 point shooting - 5 players with outstanding 2 point shooting - and 5 players that will all be looking to get their share of the shots - and unfortunately only one ball. Because the shooting skills of the five are so similar it's reasonable to assume that 4 players each taking a couple more shots per game would equal the point production of 5 players - freeing up one player for a trade. Horfords age and contract would probably make him the least valuable in a trade - but anyone of the other 4 could be fair game in a trade to fill a future need for a replacement for Horford - also consider the fact that the possibility of having to pay star bucks to 4 players down the road would be financially impossible - setting up a move to free agency by one of the players. I would be very surprised if Danny doesn't have thoughts about these potential future complications.



  swish

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Re: What would you trade in order to move up to draft Mo Bamba?

Post by NYCelt on Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:17 pm

swish wrote:The Celtics next year will start the season with shooting skills that will without doubt rival the Warriors.
 See below link.

  http://bkref.com/tiny/AFTQ8

 Five players with outstanding 3 point shooting - 5 players with outstanding 2 point shooting - and 5 players that will all be looking to get their share of the shots - and unfortunately only one ball. Because the shooting skills of the five are so similar it's reasonable to assume that 4 players each taking a couple more shots per game would equal the point production of 5 players - freeing up one player for a trade. Horfords age and contract would probably make him the least valuable in a trade - but anyone of the other 4 could be fair game in a trade to fill a future need for a replacement for Horford - also consider the fact that the possibility of having to pay star bucks to 4 players down the road would be financially impossible - setting up a move to free agency by one of the players. I would be very surprised if Danny doesn't have thoughts about these potential future complications.



  swish

Swish,

E-x-a-c-t-l-y!

But I think the most likely to get dealt are Rozier and/or Brown, along with some picks. Want to keep them all, but I doubt that's realistic, and not a likely way to build a champion.

That, and we NEED a big that can board and defend.

Regards
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Re: What would you trade in order to move up to draft Mo Bamba?

Post by atcross on Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:46 pm

I trust in DA but any thought of trading Horford, Hayward, or Irving sends the wrong message to other quality free agents. Horford and Hayward, by signing with the Cs, have indicated they wanted to be here and they could have gone elsewhere. Trading Hayward in particular would be a major red flag around the league. And trading Irving in his prime would be nuts. Maybe we could get away with trading Horford but, as noted, his contract is on the high side for that. When Thomas came to the Cs he was not a star. Trading him was hard but he probably wouldn't have become the asset he was had he gone anywhere else. Trading stars who are with us by choice and in their prime makes no sense. And I don't see that we lost in the ECF because we lacked a rim protector. We lost because we had too little clutch iso scoring to pick us up on a bad night. That's Hayward and Irving.

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Re: What would you trade in order to move up to draft Mo Bamba?

Post by NYCelt on Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:52 pm

atcross,

I expect that, as you say, Irving, Horford, and Hayward are very unlikely to depart. And each for various reasons. Although no one is untouchable (that old familiar truism), I'd add Tatum to that list, and make it an even 4. In my opinion, I could easily see D Ainge trading anyone else.

Regards
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