This Leonard S--t Just won't Go Away!

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This Leonard S--t Just won't Go Away!

Post by dboss on Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:00 pm

https://985thesportshub.com/2018/06/27/celtics-kawhi-leonard-trade-offer/

The Celtics have made an offer to the Spurs for Kawhi Leonard.

$18 million needs to go out.  Would they dare Trade Irving?  are we looking at Brown, Morris, Yabu, Rozier, and other fill ins plus the Sacto pick?


Last edited by dboss on Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: This Leonard S--t Just won't Go Away!

Post by KyleCleric on Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:02 pm

Probably just using Cs as leverage against the other teams. I've a hard time seeing it put together.

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Re: This Leonard S--t Just won't Go Away!

Post by dboss on Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:21 pm

Wjo is often right on the money. We previously heard about the rejected offer back in February so for Boston to put an offer out there now means Danny is ready to make another big time trade.

We can only speculate what was offered. I think Danny will be willing to part with multiple picks because at some point you just do have have enough roster spaces but even with picks you still have to match up reasonably with salaries. in some sense gutting out the rotation and also moving picks seems counterproductive.

But again we just do not know all the details here.



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Re: This Leonard S--t Just won't Go Away!

Post by dboss on Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:27 pm

It is not clear if this is a new offer

Still researching
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Re: This Leonard S--t Just won't Go Away!

Post by dboss on Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:35 pm

Different sites have pick up the story from ESPN and some outlets are reporting that it is a new offer.

The ESPN article however is unclear if this is a new offer from Boston. I hate the media

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23924558/pressure-mounting-los-angeles-lakers-acquire-kawhi-leonard

No where does it say new offer

The Boston Celtics, Cleveland Cavaliers, Philadelphia 76ers and LA Clippers are among teams who have made offers to the Spurs for Leonard, league sources said.
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Re: This Leonard S--t Just won't Go Away!

Post by NYCelt on Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:50 pm

Although it's a new story at The Sports Hub, it's hard to tell if it's actually a new offer.

We have a rainout this evening, so I had time to check San Antonio sites like mySanAntonio.com, Ticket 760, and a few others. Several mention the offer, a couple talk only about The Lakers, and none mention it's new.

I'm guessing this is re-cycled.
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Re: This Leonard S--t Just won't Go Away!

Post by worcester on Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:01 pm

May very well be the Celts' February offer to which the article alludes...

Other than trading Kyrie straight up for Kawhi, which would leave us overstocked at the wing and woefully weak at point guard, it is just damn hard to make numbers work for such a trade.

Kawhi is due $20,099,000 for 2018-19

We could trade
Terry - $3,117,000
Yabu - 2,667,000
Morris - 5,375,000
Nader - 1,378,000
Brown 5,170,000
________________
$17,707,000 to come within the required 80%, but why would we do that????

For an oft injured discontent with a one year contract? I don't get it.
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Re: This Leonard S--t Just won't Go Away!

Post by kdp59 on Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:04 pm

I'd rather have the King myself.

OK...yes I did...start THAT one again!!


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Re: This Leonard S--t Just won't Go Away!

Post by Shamrock1000 on Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:10 pm

It is a little vague, but Woj, Windhurst, and Ramona are professional writers, and using the Celtics February offer in this context would be seriously misleading. These three are not running some blog, so I would hope journalistic tactics like that would be below them.

I would be seriously worried Kawhi would be a one year rental. Ainge might believe that once Kawhi plays for Brad, he will change his mind. Problem with that is that Kawhi has already demonstrated that playing for a great coach is not that important to him.

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Re: This Leonard S--t Just won't Go Away!

Post by Shamrock1000 on Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:18 pm

This article may have completely ruined the chances of the Lakers getting Kawhi or Lebron. Pop and Buford will immediately realize that by denying the Lakers Kawhi, they also ruin the Lakers chance of getting Lebron, whereas trading Kawhi to the Lakers may very well result in a super team within their division.

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Re: This Leonard S--t Just won't Go Away!

Post by dboss on Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:16 pm

Shamrock1000 wrote:It is a little vague, but Woj, Windhurst, and Ramona are professional writers, and using the Celtics February offer in this context would be seriously misleading. These three are not running some blog, so I would hope journalistic tactics like that would be below them.

I would be seriously worried Kawhi would be a one year rental. Ainge might believe that once Kawhi plays for Brad, he will change his mind. Problem with that is that Kawhi has already demonstrated that playing for a great coach is not that important to him.


"Like a tale by the time it's been told by more then one, It's growing" (The Temptations)

The source is ESPN and it simply does not state that the offer is new yet other outlets that name ESPN as the source say it is a new offer. I do not believe it is a new offer. This is exactly how rumors spread and how the details of those rumors are misquoted or they become assumptions.

One outlet states the Celtics have made a formal offer and framed it in a way to lead you to believe that it was just made.

some other outlets have correctly indicated the uncertainty if the offer is actually a new offer

I have sent an email to ESPN for clarification.

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Re: This Leonard S--t Just won't Go Away!

Post by worcester on Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:48 pm

Health concerns still unanswered.
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Re: This Leonard S--t Just won't Go Away!

Post by dboss on Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:24 pm

worcester wrote:Health concerns still unanswered.

I am waiting to get a response back from ESPN

The Health issue has not been answered.
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Re: This Leonard S--t Just won't Go Away!

Post by bobheckler on Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:50 am

Last I heard Kawhi still wants to sign with the Lakers next year.  Has that changed?   Health and the price tag aside that is a hurdle the size of a steeplechase to me.



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Re: This Leonard S--t Just won't Go Away!

Post by RosalieTCeltics on Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:48 am

This guy is a loose cannon. I heard on sports talk show that he is ready to sit another year out rather than go into Spurs locker room.. Come on now, this is ridiculous. If he were to try to pull this, do we really want him? He is living on laurels of two years ago, who knows what is left in his tank. The other thing is that he supposedly is home sick??? and wants to go home to LA. $218 million for a homesick player?

I would walk away from this guy, no, I take that back, I would run away from this guy Who knows what is in store for him mentally and physically.,

Leave this team alone Danny, grow with it. This is not a grandslam, it could be a botched bunt.
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Re: This Leonard S--t Just won't Go Away!

Post by Shamrock1000 on Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:53 am

RosalieTCeltics wrote:This guy is a loose cannon.  I heard on sports talk show that he is ready to sit another year out rather than go into Spurs locker room.. Come on now, this is ridiculous. If he were to try to pull this, do we really want him?  He is living on laurels of two years ago, who knows what is left in his tank. The other thing is that he supposedly is home sick??? and wants to go home to LA.  $218 million for a homesick player?

I would walk away from this guy, no, I take that back, I would run away from this guy  Who knows what is in store for him mentally and physically.,

Leave this team alone Danny, grow with it. This is not a grandslam, it could be a botched bunt.

+1

Something is not right with this guy. As Celtics fans, we tend think Brad can fix/redeem any player, but this guy has quit on one of the greatest coaches in the nba.

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Re: This Leonard S--t Just won't Go Away!

Post by wideclyde on Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:03 am

I just do not see Leonard deciding to extend his contract with any team that trades for him this summer, and this thought should completely scare away any team that is even thinking of trading for him.

There easily could be a $10 M difference in re-upping this summer and his full free agent value next summer. With that thought, he is just like Irving in that it makes no financial sense to do anything but wait till next summer to decide where he wants to play in 2019-20.

For the Cs giving up Rozier and pieces, and never mind Brown, for one year of Leonard is just crazy. Rozier fills an important role and Leonard would only force Tatum, Brown and Hayward to sit more minutes. Brown may already be more valuable to Boston already, and will be more valuable if he even improves just a little bit this summer.

I really do not like the idea of trading Rozier, but since he only has one year left on his rookie contract he may be one of those guys who gets traded now rather than get nothing for him later on. And, I am sure that Ainge is looking at the salary cap issues for the 2020 season already.


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Re: This Leonard S--t Just won't Go Away!

Post by Shamrock1000 on Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:04 am

Blakely is proposing Brown AND Kyrie for Leonard...I am speechless....

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-celtics-made-formal-offer-171515688.html

BOSTON -- The Kawhi Leonard-to-Boston talk continues to gain steam following a report the Celtics are among a handful of teams that have already made formal offers to the Spurs for Leonard.

While no details of what was offered were in the report, an offer from the Celts would surely include at least one of their young wings, Jaylen Brown or Jayson Tatum.

Considering where both players are in their development, Boston would be more inclined to include Brown than Tatum, who just finished third in Rookie of the Year voting.

The impact of Leonard on the Celtics will hinge heavily on the cost. Including Kyrie Irving in the trade would elevate Terry Rozier to the starting point guard position, a role he has shown he's capable of handling. The pressure to play as well as Irving would not be there, not with a supporting cast around him that consists of Leonard, Tatum, Gordon Hayward and Al Horford.






That's a championship-caliber starting five.

But the Celtics will have plenty of competition in acquiring Leonard, including his current team.

San Antonio has said its preference is to keep Leonard in the fold and work through whatever differences that came to light this past season. But Leonard appears locked on playing elsewhere next season and becoming a free agent the following summer. He's rumored to want to play for the Los Angeles Lakers

The Lakers were in a similar spot last offseason with Paul George, who wanted to join them before Indiana ultimately traded him to Oklahoma City. George had a strong season with the Thunder playing alongside Russell Westbrook and Carmelo Anthony. The Lakers didn't make a strong pitch for George, assuming he would play out the one year in Oklahoma City and sign with them this summer.

It's clear the Lakers are high on George's list, but he's also giving serious thought to the Thunder as well.

Regardless of what George does, the Celtics are once again in the mix for one of the top players in the NBA in Kawhi Leonard. And unlike past seasons, when the best trade chip the Celtics could offer was potential in the form of high draft picks, they can now offer young, proven talent with superstar potential still on their rookie contracts -- a luxury few teams in the NBA have at their disposal.

Brown showed tremendous growth and promise in his second NBA season and was a factor in Boston advancing to the Eastern Conference finals this past season. But a chance to acquire Leonard has to be explored thoroughly.

And if in that time the issues that created the divide between Leonard and the Spurs were isolated and the cost of acquiring him is Irving and Brown, the Celtics have to seriously consider pulling the trigger on such a deal. It would catapult them from a title contender to the squad that's poised, better than any other, to knock off the two-time reigning NBA champion Golden State Warriors and bring Banner 18 back to Boston.

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Re: This Leonard S--t Just won't Go Away!

Post by RosalieTCeltics on Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:16 am

At what price do you blow up 2/5ths of the starting lineup to get a guy who has been injured the whole season, quit on his team, and is sulking and telling the world that he wants to go home????? What if he is a rental, then what? Next year we are left begging a guy who said from the beginning he wanted LA.

I just do not see this trade happening. They were slobbering all over themselves when they signed Kyrie, now they are going to trade him?

Chemistry is a huge part of winning a championship. By making this trade, you are destroying the chemistry built last year.

I am so against this trade, you build, and then you rip apart???? this will be a big disappointment to me to see this happen,
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Re: This Leonard S--t Just won't Go Away!

Post by Shamrock1000 on Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:23 am

RosalieTCeltics wrote:At what price do you blow up 2/5ths of the starting lineup to get a guy who has been injured the whole season, quit on his team, and is sulking and telling the world that he wants to go home????? What if he is a rental, then what? Next year we are left begging a guy who said from the beginning he wanted LA.  

I just do not see this trade happening.  They were slobbering all over themselves when they signed Kyrie, now they are going to trade him?  

Chemistry is a huge part of winning a championship. By making this trade, you are destroying the chemistry built last year.

I am so against this trade, you build, and then you rip apart????  this will be a big disappointment to me to see this happen,

Not to mention the fact that:

Kawhi ≠ Jaylen + Kyrie

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Re: This Leonard S--t Just won't Go Away!

Post by worcester on Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:31 am

Trade Blakely.
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Re: This Leonard S--t Just won't Go Away!

Post by Shamrock1000 on Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:36 am

I am sticking to my guns that Kawhi ≠ Jaylen + Kyrie, but the following fan post from Celtics blog makes a reasonable argument for giving up JB, rozier, and picks:

https://www.celticsblog.com/2018/6/27/17511634/celtics-should-choose-kawhi-over-jaylen-brown-and-likely-will

I think the Celtics will either have Kawhi Leonard or Jaylen Brown next season, but not both. And regardless of the outcome, I for one will be happy either way. I'd be happiest with Kawhi, but I'd still be pretty damn happy keeping Jaylen Brown.

The problem with JB is that he's still lacking a true feel for scoring. He didn't show much improvement in isolation plays this year. Great players like Kawhi, AD, Lebron, KD (and in terms of iso-scoring Kyrie Irving) easily get through a defense with a combination of footwork, finishing right or left handed and fadeaways. Jaylen hasn't shown an ability to put all three of those things into one play yet. He's tried, and failed, numerous times. When Brad Stevens has called his number in post-ups (anywhere from on the block all the way out to 18-20ft) he hasn't been good. Some times, he catches his defender unaware and hits him with a quick jab step and blows by. That's a very basic iso move that any player can do.

However, in tight situations when we need points, defenders are capable of staying in front of him when all he has is one move. Game 7 of ECF was a good example. His threes weren't falling and the driving lanes weren't open. This lead to him having a poor to mediocre performance in the biggest game of the Celtics season. Tatum thrived, because of his ability to go iso on a defense and create points in a variety of ways (footwork, fades, etc). Kawhi has that... at the highest level. Hayward and Kyrie have it, too. Jaylen, not yet, and no way to tell if it'll come. Iso-scorers generally have the natural ability from the time they enter the league. All the players I listed above had it in their rookie year. It's simply a feel. A feel for the game.

It seems like I'm being a JB hater but I'm really not. I'm just giving my honest evaluation. Again, I like JB and won't be upset even a little bit if we keep him. There's a chance a Kawhi trade won't happen, in which case I'm happy we get to keep JB and watch him grow. Even if he didn't improve at all in year three, which seems unlikely, he's still a great defender and capable, if not slightly above average scorer. The thing is, at best he reaches Kawhi Leonard's level. It really doesn't get any better than KL. Kawhi literally has every trick in the book. From Kawhi's first year in the league he showed flashes of great iso moves. He had the patience, and feel for scoring in a variety of ways. Sure enough, he sharpened his skills and met his full potential in his first 5 years, and became arguably the best player on the planet. That's who we're talking about here. Arguably the best player on the planet. Put him on the Celtics, and it'll be even harder to argue his greatness. The same way Stevens brought out Kyrie's best, he'd do the same for Leonard in a way Popovich couldn't because he didn't have the roster around KL to get his best basketball. Putting KL on the Celtics and forming a superteam as great as the Warriors would allow Kawhi to play the game stress free just the same as Kevin Durant got to play when he joined Golden State.

That is, we already knew KD was a top 5 player before he joined GS. But after he joined them, it became clear and the opinion of many that he's the best player in the game, certainly top 3. That's what happens to the best players when you put them on the best teams. Unfair advantage! Give KL that unfair advantage, and look out!

How can Danny and Stevens pass that up, even it's a one year rental? I don't think they're concerned with Kawhi's injury. I believe he just wanted to get out of San Antonio. Tony Parker said he had the same injury and his was 100 times worse. I believe him. If you watched Kawhi in the nine (9) games he returned this past season... he looked like the same old Kawhi. Breath taking basketball - the game is too easy for him. I watched every one of those 9 games and didn't see any red flags. I think he used those 9 games to prove that he's still the same.

Shortly after his 9 game stint, he gave an in depth interview. To me, he seems very capable of speaking to the media and setting the record straight when he feels like it. That tells me, when the time is right, Kawhi is going to address the media and set the record straight. Listen to his interview for yourself.

He's a humble guy and seems to keep it real. FF to 2:45 where he defends himself against the narrative that he hasn't been communicating or transparent. He sets the record straight that he is transparent. In fact, after that interview just two short months ago, Spurs fans had to feel pretty good that Kawhi was happy in San Antonio. So what happened? I'll tell you. Popovich and Tony Parker started making public comments that embarrassed Kawhi in an attempt to guilt him into returning for the playoffs. Pop took a few jabs at Kawhi's "Group" and TP down played Kawhi's injury.

This obviously pissed Kawhi off pretty bad and likely pushed him over the edge that he was already near on if he should go to a better situation. The nail in the coffin so to speak. I think after those comments KL made up his mind that he's leaving. Basically, San Antonio was already a small market team. They already couldn't attract marquee free agents. They were already NOT able to offer Kawhi endorsement money or rings, but he still seemed possibly willing to re-sign. Then, the comments from Pop and TP. I think that was the end.

So here we are! Kawhi wants out, and he's made it no secret he won't step foot in the Spurs locker room one more time.

Possibly the best player in the world is on the market. The Celtics easily have the best asset package to sign him.

12 more reasons why I think Celtics will trade Jaylen for Kawhi:

1. Jaylen Brown has never shown the same feel for the game as Kawhi showed from his rookie year and in his college days. It's hard to imagine him developing that feel for the game.

2. Jaylen will be up for a new contract in 3 years anyway, and if he doesn't become the next Kawhi, is he really worth a max contract when Kyrie and Hayward will already have max contracts? It's possible another team will want JB, and Celtics will have to let him go, especially considering Tatum will be getting close to his new deal. So, by passing up Kawhi (a potential one year rental) Celtics would be keeping a 3 year rental in stead, who isn't nearly as good right now.

3. Jaylen still isn't a top 20 NBA player, probably not even top 30. Kawhi is top 3 - arguably 1. Isn't it smarter to have a one year rental for the best player alive, over a potential 3 year rental who's not yet a top 20 player?

4. Kawhi being a one year rental is highly debatable. Would he really leave the Celtics after 2019? Imagine if the Celtics win the ring, or get close to winning it, would he really leave Stevens, Kyrie, Hayward and Tatum all in their prime... for Lonzo and Kuzma? Maybe, i guess. But, I think he'd realize he's in basketball heaven and decide to stay. He can still live in LA 5 months/year and then live there when he retires in 10 years. In the mean time, he can count his rings and endorsement money w/ the Celtics.

5. But he decides to leave in 2019 anyways. OK... now the Celtics have plenty of cap space again and can maneuver for another star player. Especially if the Spurs will take Jaylen, Memphis & Clippers picks, Rozier and Morris, that leaves Celtics with the Kings 2019 pick - an extremely valuable trade asset. Meaning, they'll still have a great package to offer NO if A.D. becomes available, and most think he will. So, Celtics would still be in the AD sweepstakes, front and center, and it's fair to assume AD would prefer the Celtics as a destination. So, even if Kawhi leaves, what do the Celtics really lose?

6. If the Celtics don't trade for Kawhi, there's a good chance Philly will. The Ringer just wrote about how 76ers are positioned to get Lebron and Kawhi. If that happens, it can certainly throw off the Celtics plans. Celtics are built to beat the Warriors. Not built to beat Lebron, Kawhi, Embiid and Simmons. Does Ainge really allow that superteam in Philly to happen, when he can prevent it, when by preventing it you get to add arguably the best player alive with little downside even if he leaves? It actually doesn't make sense to take an unacceptable risk.

7. BetDsi has Celtics the favorites to land Kawhi at +175, but they have PHILLY next at +285!!

8. Reports just came out that Kawhi doesn't necessarily desire a big market, but rather whatever situation is the best. This is good news for the Celtics if they're wondering what their chances are of resigning Kawhi.

9. In my previous article, I wrote about how it's likely the Celtics and Kawhi's team have already been in communication. If true, there's a good chance Ainge is already confident Kawhi will resign.

10. We have to keep in mind how Brad Stevens makes players look better than they are. He did a good job not putting Jaylen into forced situations. He didn't force Jaylen to go iso and create points. He let Jaylen take the shots as they came to him. Open threes, open drives to the hoop. But, he didn't pressure Jaylen into iso scoring. Had he had to do that, we would've seen a lot more mistakes from Jaylen, in my opinion.

11. The upside to this trade is Celtics new horror-four for the next 10 years is Kawhi, Kyrie, Hayward and Tatum. That's simply unbeatable. Do you really pass that up? I for one could never pass it up.

12. Boston's safety net is keeping the Kings 2019 pick. Offer the Spurs JB, Rozier, Morris, Yabu, Memphis and Clippers firsts or a first of their own.

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Re: This Leonard S--t Just won't Go Away!

Post by KyleCleric on Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:01 pm

I'm ok with us being used as leverage to bleed the Sixers or Laker. Less ok if we are giving up long term value for short term value. We have a lot of short term value already on this team.

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Re: This Leonard S--t Just won't Go Away!

Post by dboss on Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:04 pm

The LAL have re-engaged with the Spurs.

Leonard wants to go to LA. Nothing that I can think of is going to change that.

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Re: This Leonard S--t Just won't Go Away!

Post by Shamrock1000 on Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:09 pm

dboss wrote:The LAL have re-engaged with the Spurs.

Leonard wants to go to LA.  Nothing that I can think of is going to change that.


The Spurs must realize that if Leonard goes to LA, the chances of LA signing Lebron go WAY up - they would be facilitating the creation of a superteam in their own division that they will not be able to beat for 3 or 4 years. By not trading Kawhi to LA, you probably also screw LA's chances of signing Lebron. The only way this makes sense is if Pop and Buford are looking to rebuild and wait out GSW and the Lakers superteam they would be helping to create.

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Re: This Leonard S--t Just won't Go Away!

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