Report: Irving and Butler looking to join forces, here or elsewhere

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Report: Irving and Butler looking to join forces, here or elsewhere

Post by 112288 on Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:53 pm

Report: Irving and Butler looking to join forces, here or elsewhere

By NBC Sports Boston Report July 03, 2018 2:15 PM


Well, isn't this interesting.

From the Chicago Sun-Times:

A league source close to the situation told the Sun-Times on Tuesday that Kyrie Irving and former Bulls All-Star Jimmy Butler are still trying to figure out a way to play together.

As you may recall, the Celtics have been linked to Butler before. But the Celts apparently cooled on Butler at the end of the 2016-17 season, unwilling to part with the assets they would have had to send Chicago in a trade and preferring to pursue Gordon Hayward in free agency. The Bulls traded Butler to the Timberwolves and the Celtics landed Hayward. And then the C's were able to acquire Irving as well.

It appears, however, that Butler isn't a Timberwolf for life. From the Sun-Times:

[A] league source said [Butler] also has no intentions of signing an extension with Minnesota, all but fed up with the nonchalant attitude of his younger teammates, specifically Karl-Anthony Towns.

So now what? Do the Celtics try and trade for Butler now? The addition of Butler -- depending on what they'd have to surrender -- could help the C's create their own super team that might, just might, be able to do legitimate battle with the DeMarcus Cousins-added Warriors.

Or do they wait until he hits free agency at the end of next season? That, however, could be risky . . .

[Irving and Butler may] simply wait a year, both opt out of their player options after the season, and join forces that way.

In any case, it looks like another element has been introduced into an already interesting Celtics offseason.

Stay tuned.

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Re: Report: Irving and Butler looking to join forces, here or elsewhere

Post by kdp59 on Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:56 pm

watch the Knicks after next season, I think there is real smoke there for both players.

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Re: Report: Irving and Butler looking to join forces, here or elsewhere

Post by 112288 on Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:09 pm

Ya know something, this is not the way to bond players and management together. This is not the first time Irving has not given the Celtics a warm fuzzy feeling  about staying beyond next year.

And now this example.

I think Irving is becoming a irritant and quite frankly an A HOLE!

Why would Danny give away assets to land Butler next year for nothing. In addition, Butler is a duplicate of Brown and Tatum A LA Leonard!  Let us not get started on that stupid idea of getting Leonard...................

If I was Danny I would put it to Irving right now...........are you with us for the long term or are you out?!   No clear answer, Package him right now and get this guy out of here!  You can still get good value for him and then move on!

I think it would send a message to the rest of the team, league players and league team management that it cannot be a one way street with these prima donna's. We cannot pay huge salaries and invest time and resources to players with no loyalty attached.

TRADE HIM DANNY!

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Re: Report: Irving and Butler looking to join forces, here or elsewhere

Post by Shamrock1000 on Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:32 pm

112288 wrote:Ya know something, this is not the way to bond players and management together. This is not the first time Irving has not given the Celtics a warm fuzzy feeling  about staying beyond next year.

And now this example.

I think Irving is becoming a irritant and quite frankly an A HOLE!

Why would Danny give away assets to land Butler next year for nothing. In addition, Butler is a duplicate of Brown and Tatum A LA Leonard!  Let us not get started on that stupid idea of getting Leonard...................

If I was Danny I would put it to Irving right now...........are you with us for the long term or are you out?!   No clear answer, Package him right now and get this guy out of here!  You can still get good value for him and then move on!

I think it would send a message to the rest of the team, league players and league team management that it cannot be a one way street with these prima donna's. We cannot pay huge salaries and invest time and resources to players with no loyalty attached.

TRADE HIM DANNY!

112288

Agree with your assessment about Butler, but this sounds like a rumor to me. Not sure it is fair to get all pissed off at Kyrie about some rumor that, at best,  is based on casual remarks from a long time ago. The internet is a double-edged sword - we get information much more quickly than before, but we often get it without any vetting regarding accuracy or truth.


Last edited by Shamrock1000 on Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Report: Irving and Butler looking to join forces, here or elsewhere

Post by 112288 on Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:32 pm

This is starting to set a bad precedent where players are now ruining the league by colluding with each other and stacking teams. It started with LeBron and now add a multiplier affect of 10 and that is where we are now with the NBA.

This will in time crash the system especially with some teams going bankrupt.

The NBA league officials have condoned this action and not tried to fix it for years.

Look at a fan in let us say Milwaukee or The Twin Cities MN. How many times are you going to go and spend money seeing your team play when you know the deck is stacked against them and they will never draw a superstar to their team to make them win the NBA title. Eventually you move on to other sports or entertainment.

Hey, my team is out, I will not watch other basketball teams win a title........for what.......knowing my team will never get there.

The NFL has a good structure in place to create parity ..............the NBA should take notice!

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Re: Report: Irving and Butler looking to join forces, here or elsewhere

Post by 112288 on Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:34 pm

Shamrock1000 wrote:
112288 wrote:Ya know something, this is not the way to bond players and management together. This is not the first time Irving has not given the Celtics a warm fuzzy feeling  about staying beyond next year.

And now this example.

I think Irving is becoming a irritant and quite frankly an A HOLE!

Why would Danny give away assets to land Butler next year for nothing. In addition, Butler is a duplicate of Brown and Tatum A LA Leonard!  Let us not get started on that stupid idea of getting Leonard...................

If I was Danny I would put it to Irving right now...........are you with us for the long term or are you out?!   No clear answer, Package him right now and get this guy out of here!  You can still get good value for him and then move on!

I think it would send a message to the rest of the team, league players and league team management that it cannot be a one way street with these prima donna's. We cannot pay huge salaries and invest time and resources to players with no loyalty attached.

TRADE HIM DANNY!

112288

Agree with your assessment about Butler, but this sounds like a rumor to me. Not sure it is fair to get all pissed off at Kyrie about some rumor that, at best,  is based on casual remarks from a long time ago. The internet is a double-edged sword - we get information much more quickly than before, but we often get it without any vetting regarding accuracy or truth.

So let Irving come out and flat out deny the story.  I can live with that..........but not silence.

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Re: Report: Irving and Butler looking to join forces, here or elsewhere

Post by Shamrock1000 on Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:49 pm

112288 wrote:
Shamrock1000 wrote:
112288 wrote:Ya know something, this is not the way to bond players and management together. This is not the first time Irving has not given the Celtics a warm fuzzy feeling  about staying beyond next year.

And now this example.

I think Irving is becoming a irritant and quite frankly an A HOLE!

Why would Danny give away assets to land Butler next year for nothing. In addition, Butler is a duplicate of Brown and Tatum A LA Leonard!  Let us not get started on that stupid idea of getting Leonard...................

If I was Danny I would put it to Irving right now...........are you with us for the long term or are you out?!   No clear answer, Package him right now and get this guy out of here!  You can still get good value for him and then move on!

I think it would send a message to the rest of the team, league players and league team management that it cannot be a one way street with these prima donna's. We cannot pay huge salaries and invest time and resources to players with no loyalty attached.

TRADE HIM DANNY!

112288

Agree with your assessment about Butler, but this sounds like a rumor to me. Not sure it is fair to get all pissed off at Kyrie about some rumor that, at best,  is based on casual remarks from a long time ago. The internet is a double-edged sword - we get information much more quickly than before, but we often get it without any vetting regarding accuracy or truth.

So let Irving come out and flat out deny the story.  I can live with that..........but not silence.

112288

Ask yourself this - if it wasn't for that weak-ass story would you still demand Kyrie's declaration of unwaivering loyalty? Should Danny make a similar committment and say that Kyrie is untouchable under any circumstances? I am pretty sure Danny has talked with Kyrie and his people, and if Danny is comfortable with the situation, then so am I.

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Re: Report: Irving and Butler looking to join forces, here or elsewhere

Post by RosalieTCeltics on Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:56 pm

This story was on Yahoo.  I will admit, I am a bit annoyed by all this talk.  One minute he is overjoyed at being traded to the Celtics, the next we are reading tihis.  It is a little depressing to tell you the truth.

Danny certainly felt he was doing the right thing trading IT for Kyrie, and the season Kyrie put in before getting injured proved he made the right decision. Last week I read where he could not wait to get on the court with Gordon Hayward and felt so guilty because it was his alley oop pass that got Gordon injured.

What the heck is going on here. So much for looking at the banners and feeling like you want to be part of a team that adds the next banner up in the rafters.  Does not feel like a long and lasting relationship. It is sad what the league has become???

I hope this is rumor, as far as Butler is concerned, he has no room here .When Danny wanted him, he didn't want to come.  No room at the inn now.
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Re: Report: Irving and Butler looking to join forces, here or elsewhere

Post by Ktronic1 on Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:18 pm

True or not, I’m getting pretty tired of how this league is operating. my good friend stopped watching NBA games the year after Lebron pulled his first bolt. He only watches College ball (which will probably begin to suck if they change the one and done rule).
Don’t get me wrong, I think free agency is important and players should have some say as to their career moves but parameters need to be put into place to help alleviate this “teaming up” BS.
Reminds me of when I was a kid and we’d buck up to pick players on each team. I haven’t a clue on how to solve this dilemma but This is the NBA and something needs to be done!!
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Re: Report: Irving and Butler looking to join forces, here or elsewhere

Post by sinus007 on Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:18 pm

Hi,
I think it’s just an empty rumor.
KI is da man on the team. This upcoming season there’s a very high probability that he goes to the Finals. And the next few years.
Why would he abandon all this? Just for the pleasure to play with Butler? I don’t think so. Unless, of course, they are secret lovers.
Also, why does KI needs a budding star when in a year or two he’ll have two - JB and JT.

AK
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Re: Report: Irving and Butler looking to join forces, here or elsewhere

Post by 112288 on Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:28 pm

Ktronic1 wrote:True or not, I’m getting pretty tired of how this league is operating. my good friend stopped watching NBA games the year after Lebron pulled his first bolt. He only watches College ball (which will probably begin to suck if they change the one and done rule).
Don’t get me wrong, I think free agency is important and players should have some say as to their career moves but parameters need to be put into place to help alleviate this “teaming up” BS.
Reminds me of when I was a kid and we’d buck up to pick players on each team. I haven’t a clue on how to solve this dilemma but This is the NBA and something needs to be done!!

AMEN!

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Re: Report: Irving and Butler looking to join forces, here or elsewhere

Post by kdp59 on Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:20 pm

Ktronic1 wrote:True or not, I’m getting pretty tired of how this league is operating. my good friend stopped watching NBA games the year after Lebron pulled his first bolt. He only watches College ball (which will probably begin to suck if they change the one and done rule).
Don’t get me wrong, I think free agency is important and players should have some say as to their career moves but parameters need to be put into place to help alleviate this “teaming up” BS.
Reminds me of when I was a kid and we’d buck up to pick players on each team. I haven’t a clue on how to solve this dilemma but This is the NBA and something needs to be done!!


an option to slow the super teams down, would be a real HARD CAP, get rid of all the exceptions AND have each team have one player denoted as a franchise player who does NOT count against the cap.

the goal would be to have all 30 teams have one star player only they can pay what he's worth. You could still have guys playing for minimum on the good teams. But IF there was a hard cap GS would not have $5M to pay Boogie this year.

for instance lets say the HARD cap would be at $101M with each team allowed ONE franchise player and his salary not being counted.

Curry and his $37M would be the franchise player

the rest of the roster cap number is $97.8 M leaving them only $3.2 M in space but with only 10 players under contract. SO they would have to fill the rest of the roster with minimum wage contracts.

how would the Celtics cap look with this type of set up?

Hayward- $31.2 M - Franchsie player

12 other players under contract with a total of $82.4M in cap space/

Celtics would have $18.6M in max cap space for 2 roster spots.

it wouldn't be a perfect, but better than what they are working under now I think.


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Re: Report: Irving and Butler looking to join forces, here or elsewhere

Post by 112288 on Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:08 pm

KDP 59

Sounds better then what we have now!

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Re: Report: Irving and Butler looking to join forces, here or elsewhere

Post by dboss on Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:18 pm

Players talk to a LOT of other players all the time.  Every player would not mind playing with some other player that he is not playing with now.

Some players (Irving)  have positive praise for their teammates and others (butler) bitch and moan.  

No player should commit to resigning well before that event could take place.  No team should commit either.
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Re: Report: Irving and Butler looking to join forces, here or elsewhere

Post by k_j_88 on Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:17 am

Players are now controlling their own destinies whereas before teams had all of the power. Sure, players can seem selfish in deciding where they wish to play but at the end of the day, they are the ones on the court.

I don't necessarily like the idea or superteams but people consistently forget that GS drafted their talent and added players around them. Let's also be real, every single team in the league would do what GS is doing if they could. Would those fans be complaining then if it were their team at the top of the mountain amassing talent? I seriously doubt it.


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Re: Report: Irving and Butler looking to join forces, here or elsewhere

Post by jrleftfoot on Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:44 am

Diatribes galore , signifying nothing. If a non-story like this gets folks riled up---my goodness. what happened to all the people who said too bad for IT; it`s a business.? Sucks when it works both ways.
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Re: Report: Irving and Butler looking to join forces, here or elsewhere

Post by 112288 on Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:08 am

jrleftfoot

You missed the point.    Players are beginning to stack teams which is not the natural progression of building a team through good player selection and a good coach and a little luck.

Now you have players colluding with one another and deciding to stack a team.  There is no more imagination and creativity by management.  Small market teams will be severely hurt by this movement in player personnel.  It was the NBA management that encouraged it because they thought it was great hype for the game................what they did not know is long term it will be a cancer that will eat through the league.

The trill for fans is to watch the evolution of a team through development. Now that process will not mean anything with no chance of teams in small markets attracting enough talent to win against a stacked team.

It gets boring with the same old teams playing in the finals knowing they were stacked and not built organically.


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Re: Report: Irving and Butler looking to join forces, here or elsewhere

Post by jrleftfoot on Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:45 am

I do get your point, but they have a Basic Agreement that both sides have to abide by. The reaction to Kyrie and Butler wanting to play together was over the top, to me . So far, Kyrie has made no demands , but is criticized for not being warm and fuzzy enough in his responses to questions about his future. Actually, I consider it a good sign that he isn`t interested in an extension.  It would cost him millions to sign an one  unless he gets hurt or doesn`t play up to expectations . That being the case, it seems to me that he is confident that he will return with a vengeance and earn the money.
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Re: Report: Irving and Butler looking to join forces, here or elsewhere

Post by kdp59 on Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:32 am

I don't think my reaction was over the top. all I said is I think there is something to the Irving would like ti play in NY rumors.

Paul George wanted to play in LA too, until he didn't.

should Danny trade Irving right now, because of these stories.....of course not. But he should stay vigilant and if the right deal comes along, at least consider it.

but then I worry more about signing Irving to a max deal, with his injury history than anything else.

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Re: Report: Irving and Butler looking to join forces, here or elsewhere

Post by dboss on Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:12 am

During the summer of 2016 when Boston was trying to get Kevin Durant to sign, IT was part of the recruiting team.

I think there is way too much being made of players talking to one another and wanting to play together.

In the end teams still control the money and who is on their rosters.
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Re: Report: Irving and Butler looking to join forces, here or elsewhere

Post by Ktronic1 on Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:06 pm

kdp59 wrote:
Ktronic1 wrote:True or not, I’m getting pretty tired of how this league is operating. my good friend stopped watching NBA games the year after Lebron pulled his first bolt. He only watches College ball (which will probably begin to suck if they change the one and done rule).
Don’t get me wrong, I think free agency is important and players should have some say as to their career moves but parameters need to be put into place to help alleviate this “teaming up” BS.
Reminds me of when I was a kid and we’d buck up to pick players on each team. I haven’t a clue on how to solve this dilemma but This is the NBA and something needs to be done!!


an option to slow the super teams down, would be a real HARD CAP, get rid of all the exceptions AND have each team have one player denoted as a franchise player who does NOT count against the cap.

the goal would be to  have all 30 teams have one star player only they can pay what he's worth. You could still have guys playing for minimum on the good teams. But IF there was a hard cap GS would not have $5M to pay Boogie this year.

for instance lets say the HARD cap would be at $101M with each team allowed ONE franchise player and his salary not being counted.

Curry and his $37M would be the franchise player

the rest of the roster cap number is $97.8 M leaving them only $3.2 M in space but with only 10 players under contract. SO they would have to fill the rest of the roster with minimum wage contracts.

how  would the Celtics cap look with this type of set up?

Hayward- $31.2 M - Franchsie player

12 other players under contract with a total of  $82.4M in cap space/

Celtics would have $18.6M in max cap space for 2 roster spots.

it wouldn't be a perfect, but better than what they are working under now I think.


Just might work. But help me out here. Does this put a cap on what players are allowed to earn? If so, thats only fair if there is also a cap on what owners are allowed to earn.
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Re: Report: Irving and Butler looking to join forces, here or elsewhere

Post by kdp59 on Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:58 pm

Ktronic1 wrote:
kdp59 wrote:
Ktronic1 wrote:True or not, I’m getting pretty tired of how this league is operating. my good friend stopped watching NBA games the year after Lebron pulled his first bolt. He only watches College ball (which will probably begin to suck if they change the one and done rule).
Don’t get me wrong, I think free agency is important and players should have some say as to their career moves but parameters need to be put into place to help alleviate this “teaming up” BS.
Reminds me of when I was a kid and we’d buck up to pick players on each team. I haven’t a clue on how to solve this dilemma but This is the NBA and something needs to be done!!


an option to slow the super teams down, would be a real HARD CAP, get rid of all the exceptions AND have each team have one player denoted as a franchise player who does NOT count against the cap.

the goal would be to  have all 30 teams have one star player only they can pay what he's worth. You could still have guys playing for minimum on the good teams. But IF there was a hard cap GS would not have $5M to pay Boogie this year.

for instance lets say the HARD cap would be at $101M with each team allowed ONE franchise player and his salary not being counted.

Curry and his $37M would be the franchise player

the rest of the roster cap number is $97.8 M leaving them only $3.2 M in space but with only 10 players under contract. SO they would have to fill the rest of the roster with minimum wage contracts.

how  would the Celtics cap look with this type of set up?

Hayward- $31.2 M - Franchsie player

12 other players under contract with a total of  $82.4M in cap space/

Celtics would have $18.6M in max cap space for 2 roster spots.

it wouldn't be a perfect, but better than what they are working under now I think.


Just might work. But help me out here. Does this put a cap on what players are allowed to earn? If so, thats only fair if there is also a cap on what owners are allowed to earn.

I used an example using this years $101 M salary cap, in my example each franchise player would not count against that number.

since there already is a max % of the cap that can be used for a max deal, I assume there would be some type of max salary set each year for franchise players.

there is the problem of what to do about not having the tax money (due to there being a HARD cap and no need for taxpaying teams). But I am not sure how many teams need that money to make a profit anymore anyway.

it certainly would not stop players from creating super teams , but it would make it harder.

a  side effect would probably be MORE shorter deals, and at all levels of players, IMO.

this would also not stop teams from tanking, even with a very high Salary minimum of say $90 m to start even. As those teams could just take on expiring high salary's with no intention of winning still.

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Re: Report: Irving and Butler looking to join forces, here or elsewhere

Post by Ktronic1 on Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:45 am

kdp59 wrote:
Ktronic1 wrote:
kdp59 wrote:
Ktronic1 wrote:True or not, I’m getting pretty tired of how this league is operating. my good friend stopped watching NBA games the year after Lebron pulled his first bolt. He only watches College ball (which will probably begin to suck if they change the one and done rule).
Don’t get me wrong, I think free agency is important and players should have some say as to their career moves but parameters need to be put into place to help alleviate this “teaming up” BS.
Reminds me of when I was a kid and we’d buck up to pick players on each team. I haven’t a clue on how to solve this dilemma but This is the NBA and something needs to be done!!


an option to slow the super teams down, would be a real HARD CAP, get rid of all the exceptions AND have each team have one player denoted as a franchise player who does NOT count against the cap.

the goal would be to  have all 30 teams have one star player only they can pay what he's worth. You could still have guys playing for minimum on the good teams. But IF there was a hard cap GS would not have $5M to pay Boogie this year.

for instance lets say the HARD cap would be at $101M with each team allowed ONE franchise player and his salary not being counted.

Curry and his $37M would be the franchise player

the rest of the roster cap number is $97.8 M leaving them only $3.2 M in space but with only 10 players under contract. SO they would have to fill the rest of the roster with minimum wage contracts.

how  would the Celtics cap look with this type of set up?

Hayward- $31.2 M - Franchsie player

12 other players under contract with a total of  $82.4M in cap space/

Celtics would have $18.6M in max cap space for 2 roster spots.

it wouldn't be a perfect, but better than what they are working under now I think.


Just might work. But help me out here. Does this put a cap on what players are allowed to earn? If so, thats only fair if there is also a cap on what owners are allowed to earn.

I used an example  using this years $101 M salary cap, in my example each franchise player would not count against that number.

since there already is a max % of the cap that can be used for a max deal, I assume there would be some type of max salary set each year for franchise players.

there is the problem of what to do about not having the tax money (due to there being a HARD cap and no need for taxpaying teams). But I am not sure how many teams need that money to make a profit anymore anyway.

it certainly would not stop players from creating super teams , but it would make it harder.

a  side effect would probably be MORE shorter deals, and at all levels of players, IMO.

this would also not stop teams from tanking, even with a very high Salary minimum of say $90 m to start even. As those teams could just take on expiring high salary's with no intention of winning still.

Thanks for breaking it down further. Something definitely has to be done to level the playing field.
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Re: Report: Irving and Butler looking to join forces, here or elsewhere

Post by k_j_88 on Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:08 pm

Kyrie and Butler on the Knicks couldn't beat the current celtics anyway.

KJ
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Re: Report: Irving and Butler looking to join forces, here or elsewhere

Post by dboss on Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:15 am

Redsox and Yankees spend too much money.  It is just not fair.

In the end only one winner.  

OKC hits $300 million.  How many championships have they won?

Cleveland put out tons of money but are 1-4 on the big stage after James returned.

The Clippers assembled a formidable group backed by BILLIONS.  How did that turn out?

The Knicks threw money out the windows with Melo and Amarie.  How did that work for them.

The system has a self-destruct mechanism.
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