Marcus Smart

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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by RosalieTCeltics on Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:16 pm

Gyso.............Bring back the kewpie dolls,........maybe that will help!!!!!!!!!!!! God bless you, how do you do it?
If Sam was around...........oh boy...........you guys would have shut up a long time ago.

Move on. Cow...you are smarter than this to get involved in this, brings us way back to BDC days.
Ktronic, you add much to the board. let it all die. I will get the last word and end it for all. THAT IS IT!!!!
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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by jrleftfoot on Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:21 pm

I'm with Rosalie. WTH was the original topic?


Last edited by jrleftfoot on Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by KyleCleric on Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:23 pm

Matty wrote:
KyleCleric wrote:
jrleftfoot wrote:
kdp59 wrote:reminds me of the old Rambone days.

Shocked
or the Globe board

I was thinking the same thing. Though back then I was in my late teens/early 20s.

u still are..  lol!

I wish

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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by Matty on Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:55 pm

RosalieTCeltics wrote:Gyso.............Bring back the kewpie dolls,........maybe that will help!!!!!!!!!!!!  God bless you, how do you do it?
If Sam was around...........oh boy...........you guys would have shut up a long time ago.  

Move on.  Cow...you are smarter than this to get involved in this, brings us way back to BDC days.  
Ktronic, you add much to the board. let it all die. I will get the last word and end it for all.  THAT IS IT!!!!

has anyone here ever had a kewpie hamburger? i'd kill for one now.
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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by Matty on Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:57 pm

an interesting article about Smarts contract situation from last summer

https://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/10/17/celtics-marcus-smart-happy-walters-restricted-free-agent/


BOSTON (CBS) — The Boston Celtics and Marcus Smart could not agree to a contract extension prior to Monday night’s deadline, and the guard will now become a restricted free agent next summer.
The Celtics want Smart to be part of their long-term plans and Smart would like to continue his career in Boston, but no deal makes Smart’s agent, Happy Walters, pretty un-happy.
“But Wyc (Grousbeck) doesn’t want to pay the tax,” Walters told The Boston Herald on Monday night. “They’re into the tax already with three guys who make $30 million a year. If they want someone to take a discount, maybe it should be someone who has already made $150 million in their career, not someone who is just up and coming.”
Walters is referring to the max contracts the Celtics gave to Al Horford and Gordon Hayward over the last two summers, along with Kyrie Irving, who is making $18.9 million for this season. He questioned Boston’s window with those three, noting Horford’s age and Irving’s contract, which is up after the 2019-20 season.
“How long is that window going to last? Those guys have gone to Boston with the expectation they’re going to get better,” he said. “Al is getting older. They’ll have to figure out what they want to do with Kyrie again.”
Smart will be a key part to Boston’s success this season, both as their defensive specialist off the bench and with his improved jump shot — not to mention his new slimmer frame. With no deal on Monday, he’ll be motivated to go out and have a career year, earning him a massive payday over the summer. The Celtics will be able to match and deal Smart receives on the restricted free agent market.
Celtics president of basketball ops. Danny Ainge told 98.5 The Sports Hub’s Toucher & Rich on Tuesday that this is a no-lose situation for Boston.
“Marcus is a big part of our team, as everyone in Boston knows. He helps us win games in so many different ways with a lot of intangibles. I also think he’s going to have his best year of his career coming up,” said Ainge. “I feel like it’s a no-lose situation for us. If Marcus blows up and has a breakout season, that’s great for us. We can match an offer, negotiate a deal before he goes out in restricted free agency. It allows us to maintain flexibility.
“Because we have three max contract players, these decisions are crucial. Every dollar we spend is important,” he added. “We have owners who will pay the luxury tax; they did it throughout the [Kevin Garnett] era. The luxury tax is not an issue we’re trying to avoid, but it’s very penalizing now, more so than then. We just have to be really careful as we build this team.”
Things could get tricky if a team decides to throw a monster deal his way, which is something Walters alluded to on Monday.
“It will cost them a lot more then, I can tell you that,” said Walters.
The Celtics, according to Walters, didn’t start negotiations with Smart until last Thursday.
“We’re being really reasonable,” he said. “Whatever we can work out, we’ll work out.”
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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by worcester on Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:02 pm

Walters and Smart should have asked for less last year.
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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by mrkleen09 on Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:08 pm

Happy Walters is his agents name?

Oh Marcus, come on man.
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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by Shamrock1000 on Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:49 pm

dboss wrote:From time to time I like to argue from both sides of an issue.  I am sure you guys have seen me do that before.  

One may find that confusing.

The truth of the matter is that I am never absolutely certain and I am greatly influenced by thoughts and ideas from my board members.

Dboss - have you ever heard of the Kruger-Dunning effect? It is based on research in the field of psychology. Kruger and Dunning showed that in general, confidence in one's own opinion/knowledge/understanding is inversely proportional to actual competence. Basically, stupid people are more confident that they are right. The authors further postulate that the reason behind this phenomenon is that stupid people are too stupid to realize they are stupid. Thus, be grateful you see the gray in things.

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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by worcester on Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:56 pm

Well worth knowing. Thus the more self-righteous the more stupid.
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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by cowens/oldschool on Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:06 pm

RosalieTCeltics wrote:Gyso.............Bring back the kewpie dolls,........maybe that will help!!!!!!!!!!!!  God bless you, how do you do it?
If Sam was around...........oh boy...........you guys would have shut up a long time ago.  

Move on.  Cow...you are smarter than this to get involved in this, brings us way back to BDC days.  
Ktronic, you add much to the board. let it all die. I will get the last word and end it for all.  THAT IS IT!!!!

Thanks Rosalie, but anybody that knows me, knows I’m not that smart....
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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by gyso on Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:35 pm

RosalieTCeltics wrote:Gyso.............Bring back the kewpie dolls,........maybe that will help!!!!!!!!!!!!  God bless you, how do you do it?
If Sam was around...........oh boy...........you guys would have shut up a long time ago.  

Move on.  Cow...you are smarter than this to get involved in this, brings us way back to BDC days.  
Ktronic, you add much to the board. let it all die. I will get the last word and end it for all.  THAT IS IT!!!!

Thanks, Rosalie. I really wish that Sam was still around. But he is not. So all I can do is try to do my best to keep this part of his legacy alive and true to his wishes.

It is not always easy, but in the long run, it is worth it.

gyso

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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by Ktronic1 on Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:16 pm

RosalieTCeltics wrote:Gyso.............Bring back the kewpie dolls,........maybe that will help!!!!!!!!!!!!  God bless you, how do you do it?
If Sam was around...........oh boy...........you guys would have shut up a long time ago.  

Move on.  Cow...you are smarter than this to get involved in this, brings us way back to BDC days.  
Ktronic, you add much to the board. let it all die. I will get the last word and end it for all.  THAT IS IT!!!!

Yes Mam! I’m now officially in chill mode!! afro
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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by RosalieTCeltics on Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:23 pm

Hey, I just heard, Sacramento getting ready to offer $$$$ to Smart. Lavine turned them down, they have crazy money to spend, stay tuned.
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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by worcester on Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:29 pm

Not good news
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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by Matty on Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:40 pm

Matty wrote:an interesting article about Smarts contract situation from last summer

https://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/10/17/celtics-marcus-smart-happy-walters-restricted-free-agent/


BOSTON (CBS) — The Boston Celtics and Marcus Smart could not agree to a contract extension prior to Monday night’s deadline, and the guard will now become a restricted free agent next summer.
The Celtics want Smart to be part of their long-term plans and Smart would like to continue his career in Boston, but no deal makes Smart’s agent, Happy Walters, pretty un-happy.
“But Wyc (Grousbeck) doesn’t want to pay the tax,” Walters told The Boston Herald on Monday night. “They’re into the tax already with three guys who make $30 million a year. If they want someone to take a discount, maybe it should be someone who has already made $150 million in their career, not someone who is just up and coming.”
Walters is referring to the max contracts the Celtics gave to Al Horford and Gordon Hayward over the last two summers, along with Kyrie Irving, who is making $18.9 million for this season. He questioned Boston’s window with those three, noting Horford’s age and Irving’s contract, which is up after the 2019-20 season.
“How long is that window going to last? Those guys have gone to Boston with the expectation they’re going to get better,” he said. “Al is getting older. They’ll have to figure out what they want to do with Kyrie again.”
Smart will be a key part to Boston’s success this season, both as their defensive specialist off the bench and with his improved jump shot — not to mention his new slimmer frame. With no deal on Monday, he’ll be motivated to go out and have a career year, earning him a massive payday over the summer. The Celtics will be able to match and deal Smart receives on the restricted free agent market.
Celtics president of basketball ops. Danny Ainge told 98.5 The Sports Hub’s Toucher & Rich on Tuesday that this is a no-lose situation for Boston.
“Marcus is a big part of our team, as everyone in Boston knows. He helps us win games in so many different ways with a lot of intangibles. I also think he’s going to have his best year of his career coming up,” said Ainge. “I feel like it’s a no-lose situation for us. If Marcus blows up and has a breakout season, that’s great for us. We can match an offer, negotiate a deal before he goes out in restricted free agency. It allows us to maintain flexibility.
“Because we have three max contract players, these decisions are crucial. Every dollar we spend is important,” he added. “We have owners who will pay the luxury tax; they did it throughout the [Kevin Garnett] era. The luxury tax is not an issue we’re trying to avoid, but it’s very penalizing now, more so than then. We just have to be really careful as we build this team.”
Things could get tricky if a team decides to throw a monster deal his way, which is something Walters alluded to on Monday.
“It will cost them a lot more then, I can tell you that,” said Walters.
The Celtics, according to Walters, didn’t start negotiations with Smart until last Thursday.
“We’re being really reasonable,” he said. “Whatever we can work out, we’ll work out.”

this story has been in the back of my mind ever since it came out, and I think it was discussed here on the board as well. I think it's quite telling in regards to how the Smart camp (perhaps not himself) thinks and how the Celtics management/ Ainge thinks.

In the story Ainge makes several comments that are important to what is going on now:
A) “I feel like it’s a no-lose situation for us. If Marcus blows up and has a breakout season, that’s great for us. We can match an offer, negotiate a deal before he goes out in restricted free agency. It allows us to maintain flexibility."

Ainge had already said he felt like Marcus would have his best year, then in the above quote talks about a "breakout season". Such a season would benefit the team from a win/loss standpoint but then would according to The One Called Trader Danny would lead to a much bigger paycheck for Marcus, as HE indicates they would then work on a new deal if that was the case.


What was left unsaid was then the opposite, if Marcus sucks monkey wrenches in the final season then the Celtics are not on the hook with another Mark "the Blunt headed" Blount type of deal on their hands. Such a contract could really hurt their window of title contention. Ainge did say "We just have to be really careful as we build this team.” and while Smart "helps us win games in so many different ways with a lot of intangibles." His gawd awful shooting that the world hasn't seen the like of since December 21st 1891 keeps the guy from being an all star and hurts the team as well- Ainge was likely looking to see if that infamous fg % was going to go up or not.

The fact is, Smart did not have a breakout season, yes while injured we saw how useful he was to us, but his shot percentages are still beyond horrid, (his 3 pt fg% is so bad you'd have to look at Centers in the league who played while the entire league was singing "we wear short shorts" era. He lost games to injuries (one self inflicted). In short, since last season little changed about Smart that would encourage to team more so to take a big chance on him with a contract based on a "breakout season"

the second point I've already quoted:
B) "We just have to be really careful as we build this team." This statement I think is where I think the Smart camp has shown itself to not be paying attention to what's going on when it comes to the Celtics and the Salary. Notice what Ainge said right before the above comment "We have owners who will pay the luxury tax" The front office realizes that you have to pay to win, they are ok with that, but they also need to be careful, Even Billionaires don't have money growing on tree's, and being smart with their money- that's how they became billionaires. Danny is in a role where is paid to responsibly put the best team possible on the court each season. Last season there was no need to sign Smart to a larger contract, not doing so saved them money right away just off the contract, but also possibly luxury and repeater taxes as well. The team indicated they are willing to do that, but "being careful" means not going down that route until absolutely needed.


While Smart might have not been happy last season that a new deal wasn't put together, and is now hurt and disgusted, by the way the team is handling the situation- he's looking at only one side of the equation, his side. A good business deal helps both sides, last season paying Smart more helped the team be in a better position to be flexible now and down the road (possibly just by keeping us out of repeater tax a season or two longer) meanwhile Smart is still getting paid per and agreement he made when he signed his rookie deal. He might not like it now, but it was the situation he accepted he signed his first contract.

ON Boston's side, Ainge has acted prudently, he's willing to pay when the time and circumstances demand it, but not before then, this is good financial business, he's went on record stressing that fact.


Of course, there are two sides to every story, and something about the Smart camp is also very revealing if we look at these two quotes;
A) “It will cost them a lot more then, I can tell you that,” said Walters in reference to them not working out a deal last summer and waiting to do so later.

Apparently Walters had no idea what the market might look like this offseason when he made that comment, apparently he expected some team to jump out and offer Smart a massive contract (maybe the 12-14 million a year Smart feels he is worth) While many might agree Smart is as good or better a player than Evan Turner who got a 17 million a year deal for years a while ago those types of contracts just are not something most teams are going to be able to toss out this offseason. Walters (and Smart) ought to have been able to look at the landscape and realized this, I'm sure Danny and company did.

B) "If they want someone to take a discount, maybe it should be someone who has already made $150 million in their career, not someone who is just up and coming.” This was a comment made regarding the other Max players Boston has on their roster, apparently Smarts agent does not know how contracts work, or did not pay attention to some of the things that happened in order for Boston to have those players on the team.

In the NBA players and teams cant renegotiate freshly signed contracts (like Haywards). Mebbe Walters did not know this? Hayward was not going to be taking another pay cut just so Smart could be paid more sooner then needed, also, ask Avery Bradley, a fine role player himself, how things worked out for him in Boston in order for Hayward to become a Celtic. Different players are on different levels in the league, "stars" get max or near max contracts, lesser players get smaller pay on their contracts This also shows some unrealistic expectations on the part of the Smart camp. Players with Max deals don't redo their deals so role players can get more money. I wonder if this type of thinking has spilled over into how the Smart camp has reacted to the way the Celtics have thus far handled Smart's RFA status.

I think there also might be a bit of disconnect showing here on the part of the Smart camps understanding of how capitalism works. No matter what a player may feel he is worth, its the market- those willing to pay for his services who determine his true value.

for example I used to do photography part time as a business and thus had many friends also in the same industry, though I only shot a few weddings, I had a lot of friends who did them as their primary source of income. I recall back around 2006 having a conversation with one wedding photographer who said he would never shoot a wedding for less than "X" amount of money, but also complained how slow the business was. Another friend, who I though was less skilled shot weddings as well but his top price was about 2/3 the cost of the first guys standard package was booked every weekend constantly. For our area the first guy's prices were beyond what the market could bare, eventually he even got out of the business because in part he refused to lower his prices. The second fellow last I heard was still working every weekend shooting weddings.

It was the market that helped determine the true value of what a wedding photographer was worth, not perhaps the value the photographer put in himself.

Smart is in the same vote right now, he may feel that he is worth 12-14 million a year, but the market isn't there to make that happen right now. The league's economy a few years ago could handle giving Evan Turner 17 million a season, today Turner wouldn't likely get more than the MLE if that. Smart could have an identical year this coming season and as the economy of the league (teams cap situation) changes perhaps that 12-14 million a year might be more realistic. This season it's just not very likely.

This doesn't make the Celtics front office, bad guys, just a team exercising proper caution and good money management, Smart, if he is smart, wont take this process personally. Down the road the tides could change and this same process might in fact come to favor him more. The lack of a bigger payday now might be disappointing, but he needs to realize its all part of the business.
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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by jrleftfoot on Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:55 pm

His agent is advocating for Smart. Of course, he is only looking at it from his perspective, as Ainge is only looking at it from his. It still may cost the Celtics a lot of money, next year, and it may cost them Marcus Smart. Apparently , Danny  Ainge is willing to take that risk, which is fine, but fans always seem to want tho make these situations into some kind of morality play, and invariably side with management, which I find baffling. We`ll see how this plays out and , in the words of the immortal Robert Zimmerman, " who has fell , and who was left behind, when you go  your way and I go mine."
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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by jrleftfoot on Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:00 pm

If Smart signs with Sacramento for big bucks, his agent will have done his job. Bring on Jabari Bird. Personally, I  think losing Smart might be a bigger blow to the Celtics than is generally believed.
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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by KyleCleric on Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:46 pm

Good for Smart

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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by Matty on Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:50 pm

Well good for him if he is offered that much, I hope Danny will match, Smart is a tough cookie to replace.
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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by kdp59 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:27 am

Danny should match or work out the old sign and trade to the Kings (can a team still do that?).

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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by gyso on Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:12 am

kdp59 wrote:Danny should match or work out the old sign and trade to the Kings (can a team still do that?).


Yes. If a team receives a player in a sign and trade, it is hard capped at the Apron, which is now $6M above the luxury tax level. There's a couple more restrictions to make it harder to do, but the possibility still exists.

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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by worcester on Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:16 am

What has Sacto offered Smart?
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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by dboss on Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:16 pm

Well you can scratch the Nets and the Hawks off of the list of teams with the desire to make a deal for Marcus.

Jeremy Lin is traded to Atl but the roster spot is likely reserved for  Joe Harris who has yet to be resigned.
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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by sinus007 on Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:06 pm

Hi,
Here's the latest on Smart per AWoj:
Celtics GM Danny Ainge and Happy Walters, the agent for restricted free agent guard Marcus Smart, are now seriously engaged in contract talks, league sources tell ESPN. Potential deal range is in the four-year, $46M-$50M range, sources tell ESPN. Talks ongoing.

AK
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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by Shamrock1000 on Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:08 pm

sinus007 wrote:Hi,
Here's the latest on Smart per AWoj:
Celtics GM Danny Ainge and Happy Walters, the agent for restricted free agent guard Marcus Smart, are now seriously engaged in contract talks, league sources tell ESPN. Potential deal range is in the four-year, $46M-$50M range, sources tell ESPN. Talks ongoing.

AK

Hope this is true....

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Re: Marcus Smart

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