Marcus Smart

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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by kdp59 on Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:22 am

$12-15M may look like a bargain next season fro Smart.

this thread was not talking a one year deal.
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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by mulcogiseng on Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:24 am

Oh how sad. Poor Marcus Smart! Got all dressed up for the dance and no one's asking. This is what happens to one dimensional players. Even players whose one dimension is all out hustle on every play, plus stellar D. Roundball is about putting the ball through the hoop and Marcus doesn't do that very well.

Poor Mahcus! So impatient! So immature that he wrecks his hand. He gets no points for coming back early and then not being able to adequately contribute. He did this to himself. And what he did hurt his team. Just like his inability to shoot well does.

So get over yourself Smart. You just ain't all that. If you knew just a little more you could have predicted this. NO, not predict no suitors yet but understanding that players of your ilk don't get the first contacts. This is just about the right time for the other teams to figure things out, know what they can spend, and then go after those kind of role players because that is what Smart is, a role player.

Now a little wake up call to all our greengoggled wouldbewannabe GM's out there.

No way the Celtics give up Morris to avoid luxury tax. This is not your money people. Danny and ownership is on record of being willing to pay the tax. Get over yourselves. They are ready, willing, and able to pay and they will. This roster is worth it. PAYING THE LUXURY TAX IS NOT A CONCERN OF OWNERSHIP. It shouldn't be one for anyone here.

You do not find, even borderline, NBA players at Dunkin Donuts. This is the season for Abdel and Guerschon to show up and prove they belong. Esp for Bear because his foot injuries last year stopped him from getting better in Summer League and he wasn't quite right for training camp. But he did start to come on late in the season and playoffs. My hope is that this is his time because his skill set is still what we need esp his playmaking ability when Al is off the floor.

The QO has always been Smart's best choice for staying with the C's given this slow market. Getting a good offer was his way to stay at more than that. If he was thinking he was worth a big payday, he's going to have to wait and see if next season there is more money. But you have to ask why Magic hasn't contacted Smart. He would be perfect for what they are trying to do. Or at least he would be if he was really that good.
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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by wideclyde on Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:00 am

Mulco,

You certainly cannot blame Smart for wanting to get as big a contract as possible.  I know that I don't, but I do somewhat disagree with his or his agent's negotiating methods.

I have to admit that I have been surprised that no other team has made contact with Smart, but maybe I see him totally different than what another team might.  To me he is a "role player" (as you mentioned), but he is a very important role playing member for our Celtics.  He will never likely make an all star team in the role he plays, but for the Cs he plays his role as well or maybe even better than some guys who do make all star teams.

Perhaps other teams don't see this guy for what he does, perhaps they feel that they need such a guy to shoot much better than Smart does, perhaps they are waiting to contact him later on, perhaps they do not have cap room?  Who knows what reasons other teams have not been calling him, but every day that goes by helps the Celtics keep their heart and soul player, in my opinion.

He is only 24 years old, so he will continue to improve as a player, and he might even become a better shooter.  But, if he never shoots any better he is still worth keeping right in Boston for all of the other things he brings to the floor every night.  

He will make enough money (although probably not what he might want) to clothe, house and feed himself and his family in his next contract, but his wide ranging leadership is PRICELESS.  This guy truly has the "it" factor when it comes to winning.

In comparable signings by "role" players, Smart serves Boston better than Exum serves the Jazz or Bradley will serve the Clippers.

Hopefully, Ainge can sign him for a few years at 8 million +/- and the Cs can roll to at least banner #18 with Marcus Smart wearing #36.

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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by kdp59 on Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:32 am

there's just not that much money available this year....this was well known.

Next year however there will be much more money to sign FA's league wide.

Smart could sign QO and then find that $12-15 M salary the following year.

or Danny may decide not to lose him over $6 M this year.



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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by gyso on Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:08 pm

mulcogiseng wrote:Oh how sad. Poor Marcus Smart! Got all dressed up for the dance and no one's asking. This is what happens to one dimensional players. Even players whose one dimension is all out hustle on every play, plus stellar D. Roundball is about putting the ball through the hoop and Marcus doesn't do that very well.

Poor Mahcus! So impatient! So immature that he wrecks his hand. He gets no points for coming back early and then not being able to adequately contribute. He did this to himself. And what he did hurt his team. Just like his inability to shoot well does.

So get over yourself Smart. You just ain't all that. If you knew just a little more you could have predicted this. NO, not predict no suitors yet but understanding that players of your ilk don't get the first contacts. This is just about the right time for the other teams to figure things out, know what they can spend, and then go after those kind of role players because that is what Smart is, a role player.

Now a little wake up call to all our greengoggled wouldbewannabe GM's out there.

No way the Celtics give up Morris to avoid luxury tax. This is not your money people. Danny and ownership is on record of being willing to pay the tax. Get over yourselves. They are ready, willing, and able to pay and they will. This roster is worth it. PAYING THE LUXURY TAX IS NOT A CONCERN OF OWNERSHIP. It shouldn't be one for anyone here.

You do not find, even borderline, NBA players at Dunkin Donuts. This is the season for Abdel and Guerschon to show up and prove they belong. Esp for Bear because his foot injuries last year stopped him from getting better in Summer League and he wasn't quite right for training camp. But he did start to come on late in the season and playoffs. My hope is that this is his time because his skill set is still what we need esp his playmaking ability when Al is off the floor.

The QO has always been Smart's best choice for staying with the C's given this slow market. Getting a good offer was his way to stay at more than that. If he was thinking he was worth a big payday, he's going to have to wait and see if next season there is more money. But you have to ask why Magic hasn't contacted Smart. He would be perfect for what they are trying to do. Or at least he would be if he was really that good.

I respect your opinion, I wish you could show that you respect mine in a more convivial way.  Don't call me names, don't tell me to get over myself.  Don't tell me what can and cannot be discussed on this board.  None of that.

Agree to disagree and tell me why.  That is what this board if for, discussing how we all think about all things Celtics.  Convivial.  Less anger. I admire your passion, I really do.

If we were sitting across a table having a beer, would you talk to me (or anyone, for that matter) in that way?  Or would you be a little more reasonable in your argument.  Just saying.

So, anyway.  I do not agree with you on many counts.

RFAs often dangle in the wind for most of the summer.  Any team that makes a reasonable offer for one often find their offer matched.  Their only way to sign a RFA is to sign him to a poison pill offer.  They have to have cap space to do that and the lesson learned in the past is that is a bad way to do business.  So Smart is upset.  That is his agent's fault because the waiting game is the SOP.  It happened to Glen Davis, it will happen to Smart.  After there has been no offer, the two sides will sit down and settle on a number.  Test the market and let it dictate the terms.

This thread was started with the idea that signing Smart was almost a done deal.  With the ideas as presented, it took us over the tax line.  Not a good thing and in my opinion, there was a way to avoid that for one more season.  Given the fact that players are often traded away for pennies on the dollar due the the cap rules, it is not a totally unprecedented concept to "give away" Morris.  He has already questioned his place on this team, fully healthy as I hope we will be.  He is on the last season on his contract.  It would be bad for him to spend much of the season coming off the bench.  That certainly doesn't help with his next contract.  Danny has shown in the past to be aware of a soon to be traded player's needs and has often put that player in a acceptable situation, post trade.

The QO is not his best option, it rarely is.  Otherwise we would see more players taking it.  It is too much of a gamble and in the end, a multi-year contract is worked out.

The luxury tax will have to be crossed, there is no doubt in my mind.  We are currently set up in a way that is easy to avoid it one more season, in my opinion.  Oh yeah, everything that I type is just my opinion.  That goes for everyone else on this board.  Nobody sits in team meetings and fully knows anything. The closest thing we have in that way is Rosalie.  She often meets up with an assistant coach at a local coffee shop and shares a comment with him once in a while.

I digress.  The owners have stated that they will absolutely spend money for a contending team.  We have to believe them.  That time does not have to be now.  Next year for sure.  They did not make their money by spending it needlessly.  Waiting just one year will not hurt the product on the court.  Some say that Morris is 8th on our roster.  I'd put him 9th, because I put Theis ahead of him due to our depth at the wing position.  I hope Semi or Yabu can fill that position enough to get by.

So now we see that the Celtics haven't even met with Smart and his agent.  The entire premise of this thread is thrown off the rails.  Everyone has to wait, I think with us it is harder to not know how our team roster will end up.  The summer is too long for many of us.  Maybe the Summer League will offer up a pleasant distraction.

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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by dboss on Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:37 pm

Right after the final playoff game Marcus moved directly into negotiations.  He said he thought he was worth  $.  He talked about the mutual love between him and the team.  He talked about how hard he plays all the time.  He talked about wanting to stay with the Celtics.  

For their part the Celtics also made very positive public statements about wanting to bring him back.

So the bottom line here is in fact the bottom line.

Boston choose to let the NBA market establish his value and in absence of some absurd offer, they are prepared to match.  Fast forward a week after the start of free agency and it resembles draft day with some guy sitting in the greenroom while other players step up to the podium and put on the team cap. Marcus is still in the greenroom.

Boston rightfully maintained their right to match by offering him the QO.

It seems to me that Marcus and and his agent went into this knowing how the process works.  If that is not the case then he may need to hire a new representative. Frustration is building but that should not be directed at the Celtics.  I think the first mistake began with all the unnecessary self-promotion and revealing a dollar figure that he thinks he is worth.

The reason why everything appears to be different than what many have accepted as fact, is his true value to other teams.  Analytics show his positive impact on the Celtics but it is impossible to translate those same analytics on another team.  This is even more difficult because Marcus is a very poor shooter.  So teams look at him in less glowing terms.  

I know Boston is a better team with him than without him so my hope is that he comes to terms with the reality of the situation.  The QO is not an open ended offer.  Danny could turn around next week and sign some veteran center for half of QO presented to Smart.

However just one week into FA should not generate any panic for Marcus.  If his camp is waiting for Boston to do anything they are misguided.  Bring an offer from some other team to the table or sign the one year QO.
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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by willjr on Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:40 pm

Dboss, excellent post, couldn't agree more. Gm's around the league realize that Marcus is great at what he does and how it fits in Brad's system but his poor shooting and sometimes dubious shot selection in a 3 ball crazy league has made them wary of overpaying for a player that for their needs, is a one trick pony. That one trick, his maniacal defense, is awesome but doesn't warrant the type of money that Marcus and his reps thinks he deserves. Celtic mgmt is absolutely handling this correctly. Allow the league to establish his market, and the Celtics will adjust/react accordingly.
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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by RosalieTCeltics on Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:58 pm

Just remember, it is not beyond Danny to pull a qualifying offer. He did it with Jarod Sullinger. The team, the coaches, and most avid fans appreciate what Marcus does on the court. His problem is, he watched Evan Turner, his teammate, get an obscene contract a few years ago. Portland has regretted that move almost two to three months after they signed him. He just didn't do for them what he did here in the last half of the season of that free agency.

I do not blame Marcus, but, if he just sticks around for a year, he can go out and negotiate with teams with nothing hanging over his head. The money is going to free up a little next year.  He will never get a Turner contract, that is for sure. At the end of the season he started telling anyone who would listen what he felt he was worth. Bad business, just ask IT.

This is tough, I want the kid here, but the more he talks, the worse it gets.
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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by dboss on Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:11 pm

Denver still needs a PG.
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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by RosalieTCeltics on Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:21 pm

But for how much? Will they overpay????
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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by cowens/oldschool on Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:27 pm

He should shut his mouth
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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by Shamrock1000 on Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:43 pm

cowens/oldschool wrote:He should shut his mouth

Did he actually say anything? As far as I know, Marcus hasn't made any sort of statement, and people are reporting that they "heard from someone who heard from someone". Even if Marcus were complaining to his friends/inner circle/entourage, he has every right to do so. If he started making public statements that he thinks the Celtics are treating him bad, that is one thing, but trashing him because you heard a rumor about a private conversation is another thing altogether.

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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by RosalieTCeltics on Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:58 pm

You know it sounds like a remark he may have made to his agent and the agent then released this. I wonder if that is the case. If he did say it, Cowems is right, he should keep his mouth shut and pray that another team comes up with a better offer for Danny to match???
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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by cowens/oldschool on Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:09 pm

Shamrock1000 wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:He should shut his mouth

Did he actually say anything? As far as I know, Marcus hasn't made any sort of statement, and people are reporting that they "heard from someone who heard from someone". Even if Marcus were complaining to his friends/inner circle/entourage, he has every right to do so. If he started making public statements that he thinks the Celtics are treating him bad, that is one thing, but trashing him because you heard a rumor about a private conversation is another thing altogether.

Good point, he shouldn’t have said how much he’s worth and brings to the game earlier, right after season or let it leak that he is upset, no one gives a shit. He’s not a starting caliber 1 or 2 on a championship team, but he is an impact role player IMHO. Zach Levine just got 4 years 80 million, he kept his mouth shut....as far as I know.
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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by Matty on Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:37 pm

a recent update on the Smart situation

New: Latest on Marcus Smart situation. A source close to Smart says he’s “over it” & prepared to sign qualifying offer if it comes to it. But league sources say the Cs’ fondness for Smart has not waned, and that Ainge will mend personal fences if needed:
https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics
/2018/07/06/marcus-smart-frustrated-wait-but-celtics-have-plans-part-with-him/eksrvnRDNgvL8v3TWhO0PO/story.html

- @adamhimmelsbach
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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by mulcogiseng on Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:04 pm

gyso wrote:
mulcogiseng wrote:Oh how sad. Poor Marcus Smart! Got all dressed up for the dance and no one's asking. This is what happens to one dimensional players. Even players whose one dimension is all out hustle on every play, plus stellar D. Roundball is about putting the ball through the hoop and Marcus doesn't do that very well.

Poor Mahcus! So impatient! So immature that he wrecks his hand. He gets no points for coming back early and then not being able to adequately contribute. He did this to himself. And what he did hurt his team. Just like his inability to shoot well does.

So get over yourself Smart. You just ain't all that. If you knew just a little more you could have predicted this. NO, not predict no suitors yet but understanding that players of your ilk don't get the first contacts. This is just about the right time for the other teams to figure things out, know what they can spend, and then go after those kind of role players because that is what Smart is, a role player.

Now a little wake up call to all our greengoggled wouldbewannabe GM's out there.

No way the Celtics give up Morris to avoid luxury tax. This is not your money people. Danny and ownership is on record of being willing to pay the tax. Get over yourselves. They are ready, willing, and able to pay and they will. This roster is worth it. PAYING THE LUXURY TAX IS NOT A CONCERN OF OWNERSHIP. It shouldn't be one for anyone here.

You do not find, even borderline, NBA players at Dunkin Donuts. This is the season for Abdel and Guerschon to show up and prove they belong. Esp for Bear because his foot injuries last year stopped him from getting better in Summer League and he wasn't quite right for training camp. But he did start to come on late in the season and playoffs. My hope is that this is his time because his skill set is still what we need esp his playmaking ability when Al is off the floor.

The QO has always been Smart's best choice for staying with the C's given this slow market. Getting a good offer was his way to stay at more than that. If he was thinking he was worth a big payday, he's going to have to wait and see if next season there is more money. But you have to ask why Magic hasn't contacted Smart. He would be perfect for what they are trying to do. Or at least he would be if he was really that good.

I respect your opinion, I wish you could show that you respect mine in a more convivial way.  Don't call me names, don't tell me to get over myself.  Don't tell me what can and cannot be discussed on this board.  None of that.

Agree to disagree and tell me why.  That is what this board if for, discussing how we all think about all things Celtics.  Convivial.  Less anger.  I admire your passion, I really do.

If we were sitting across a table having a beer, would you talk to me (or anyone, for that matter) in that way?  Or would you be a little more reasonable in your argument.  Just saying.

So, anyway.  I do not agree with you on many counts.

RFAs often dangle in the wind for most of the summer.  Any team that makes a reasonable offer for one often find their offer matched.  Their only way to sign a RFA is to sign him to a poison pill offer.  They have to have cap space to do that and the lesson learned in the past is that is a bad way to do business.  So Smart is upset.  That is his agent's fault because the waiting game is the SOP.  It happened to Glen Davis, it will happen to Smart.  After there has been no offer, the two sides will sit down and settle on a number.  Test the market and let it dictate the terms.

This thread was started with the idea that signing Smart was almost a done deal.  With the ideas as presented, it took us over the tax line.  Not a good thing and in my opinion, there was a way to avoid that for one more season.  Given the fact that players are often traded away for pennies on the dollar due the the cap rules, it is not a totally unprecedented concept to "give away" Morris.  He has already questioned his place on this team, fully healthy as I hope we will be.  He is on the last season on his contract.  It would be bad for him to spend much of the season coming off the bench.  That certainly doesn't help with his next contract.  Danny has shown in the past to be aware of a soon to be traded player's needs and has often put that player in a acceptable situation, post trade.

The QO is not his best option, it rarely is.  Otherwise we would see more players taking it.  It is too much of a gamble and in the end, a multi-year contract is worked out.

The luxury tax will have to be crossed, there is no doubt in my mind.  We are currently set up in a way that is easy to avoid it one more season, in my opinion.  Oh yeah, everything that I type is just my opinion.  That goes for everyone else on this board.  Nobody sits in team meetings and fully knows anything. The closest thing we have in that way is Rosalie.  She often meets up with an assistant coach at a local coffee shop and shares a comment with him once in a while.

I digress.  The owners have stated that they will absolutely spend money for a contending team.  We have to believe them.  That time does not have to be now.  Next year for sure.  They did not make their money by spending it needlessly.  Waiting just one year will not hurt the product on the court.  Some say that Morris is 8th on our roster.  I'd put him 9th, because I put Theis ahead of him due to our depth at the wing position.  I hope Semi or Yabu can fill that position enough to get by.

So now we see that the Celtics haven't even met with Smart and his agent.  The entire premise of this thread is thrown off the rails.  Everyone has to wait, I think with us it is harder to not know how our team roster will end up.  The summer is too long for many of us.  Maybe the Summer League will offer up a pleasant distraction.

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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by RosalieTCeltics on Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:04 pm

I think he may up the ante a bit???????
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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by jrleftfoot on Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:56 am

Once again, people getting riled up for  no good reason and telling a player to just shut up because they find him speaking out concerning his contract situation offensive. We don`t even know what he actually said , or who he might have said it to.
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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by dboss on Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:27 am

With few PG's left there is still a chance that some team can offer up the MLE

The Kings offered Levine $78 million and Chicago plans to match. These are the type of contracts that throw things out of whack.

Other PG's still unsigned include Smart, Thomas and Napier
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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by KyleCleric on Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:33 am

Nurkic, Anderson, and Lavine all sign contracts. When Bulls match, Kings could look to Smart instead.

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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by dboss on Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:57 am

KyleCleric wrote:Nurkic, Anderson, and Levine all sign contracts. When Bulls match, Kings could look to Smart instead.

That is a good point and as a matter of fact Smart would give them that much needed defensive guard. Their current PG's De'Aaron Fox and Frank Mason III are lightweights. If they are willing to pay Levine $19.5 million per year, Smart could get at least $15. I think the Celtics would lose him at that figure.

Not a lot of teams out there but this may be a great fit for Smart where he can get paid and no one will be mad at him for doing so.
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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by k_j_88 on Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:28 am

Boston will wait till after next season to exceed the tax. It's best to put this off as long as possible because once you're a payer, it's hard to get out of it.

But its hard to win without being this far over the cap.


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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by Ktronic1 on Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:21 am

I understand that sometimes its wise not to say anything especially when you’re in the public eye. But Team Owners and Management talk, Coaches Talk, Media folk talk, We talk so no one including athletes SHOULD have to shut their mouth! Js
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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by dboss on Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:07 pm

During much of the ideas shared about Marcus Smart, we may have overlooked something.

Danny Ainge still has a treasure chest full of first round draft picks.

If Boston losses Smart or anyone else to free agency they have the draft assets to address every conceivable positional need on this team including PG/SG.  

This is something that most teams do not have, especially the top contenders.   This is why we have seen so many teams build up a roster of high salaried players that bust open their CAP space and they begin a trip down luxury tax road.  Inevitably, these teams reach a point where they have to dump good players to save money.   Having future draft picks allows teams to remain competitive by bringing in players that are less expensive than veterans on the roster.  

There are two games bumping against one another.  There is the game of basketball and there is the business of basketball.  Team choices are very complicated.  Right now Marcus is caught between the two but it will reach a resolution.

At the beginning of the season we discussed in detail the merits of the Celtics extending Smart.  I thought they should have done it then but Danny is a lot smarter than we are.  Danny's decision is not about Marcus Smart.  It is about the entire team.  If Danny resigns Smart for any period longer than one year and at a cost of (i.e. of $10+ million) he is not going to be able to resign Rozier and get Kyrie in the fold for an extension.  Personally I would love for the Celtics to keep all 3 of them but if they can only keep 2, Smart would be the first to go.  

If Danny is able to retain Smart this year at the QO it will give him another year to decide on who to keep and it will keep the team off luxury tax road.  So do not be surprised if Danny declines to match an offer for Smart that limits The Celtics options 12 months down the road.  This is easier to understand if you consider it is not so specifically about Marcus.  It is also about Terry and Kyrie next year and Al Horford.   You have two players with options (Horford and Irving) and one (Terry) that will be in the same situation as Smart is now.

In any event Boston still has the drafts assets to spend and that is our security blanket.
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Re: Marcus Smart

Post by dboss on Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:24 pm

Ktronic1 wrote:I understand that sometimes its wise not to say anything especially when you’re in the public eye. But Team Owners and Management talk, Coaches Talk, Media folk talk, We talk so no one including athletes SHOULD have to shut their mouth! Js

Hey Kronic1

I believe in Free Speech but Marcus and his spokesperson are not helping his situation.  Fans do not like players talking about how hard they play or how much money they should earn.  It's repugnant and very unprofessional.  It shines unnecessary shade on the Celtics organization.

Marcus did not actually improve year over year by any meaningful measurement.  He once again missed games due to injury caused by both on and off the court situations.  He had to apologize to the team and the fans for losing a fight with a picture frame and as a result not being able to play.    The Celtics and the entire organization has lived up to their obligations to Marcus but he has NOT live up to his obligations to the team during a make it or break it contract year.  

The yapping not only hurts his position with Boston but it may also dissuade other teams from really wanting him.  I think when fans say he needs to shut up this is what is really the thinking.

I'm just saying
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dboss

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Re: Marcus Smart

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