Leonard to Toronto

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Leonard to Toronto

Post by NESportsfan12 on Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:59 am

Reports Woj:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24128461/toronto-raptors-agree-deal-acquire-kawhi-leonard-trade-involves-demar-derozan


Some details uncertain, but no matter what, doesn't seem to change much for the power rankings out east. I still have

1. Boston
2. Philly
3. Toronto
...

What do you think?
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Re: Leonard to Toronto

Post by wideclyde on Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:22 am

I am glad that DeRozan is now in the west. He killed the Cs almost every time for Toronto.

Leonard is also a fine player, but he may not be able to beat us as well as DeRozan did.

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Re: Leonard to Toronto

Post by dboss on Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:51 am

Leonard if healthy is an upgrade over DeRozan but the Raptors are also losing a young developing center in Poeltl.  They do however get a veteran in Green as well.  The pick for 2019 is protected top 20 so it will likely not be conveyed.

Boston remains the superior team and one can only imagine the chemistry challenge ahead of them.  

I see no long term fit for Leonard.  One cold winter in Canada will send forth a definite chill.

Did Toronto do this without a guarantee that Leonard will resign?

SA accomplished their goal of keeping Leonard out of the East but Leonard must be furious and unless that changes he may bolt to LA next year.

The big gamble here is for the Raptors.
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Re: Leonard to Toronto

Post by mulcogiseng on Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:05 am

One after another the candidates for trades and signings have come and gone. Boogie, Paul George, Jimmy Butler, Kevin Durant, Kawhi Leonard and many more. We've debated each possibility up until the moment when they got moved someplace else.

Somehow I don't think Trader Danny ever entertained most of these scenarios. Somehow I think he knew he had gold and it was time to hold. So I am a happy camper this morning. Our core is intact. Our chemistry is preserved. #18 is on the way. On paper we were always the best team in the East, IMO. But injuries decimated this team yet still they won.

So for now that Kawhi possibility no longer exists. Soon there will probably be another story line that surfaces. We will discuss that one too. But I want to see the promise of last year take the floor and show what a Celtics team firing on all cylinders can do.

So how do we pass the time?  For me, I'm driving to NH to visit my ailing 95 year old mother and then to Maine to help my dottir find care for her mom. If anyone would like to meetup I could try and find a race to run and you could come out and throw water at me. Or perhaps something more convivial. Smile bounce Basketball
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Re: Leonard to Toronto

Post by dboss on Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:13 am

The Raptors had really no where to go. They were not going to win a championship with that group. They are cap strapped and this move may actually be a salary dump. Their chance to resign Leonard is slim and none.

This is what happens when you put all your eggs in one basket but it is not enough to make an omelette. You fired the so-called coach of the year which sheds more doubt on the team.

Once again Danny kept his powder dry because he deals from a position of superiority compared to most teams in the NBA.

SA had to move Leonard and will now have to deal with a disgruntled player that suffers from depression.

The LAL did not lose out on Leonard because next year they will have a chance to sign him as a FA and only part with a collection of expiring contracts to free up enough space.
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Re: Leonard to Toronto

Post by kdp59 on Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:12 am

NESportsfan12 wrote:Reports Woj:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24128461/toronto-raptors-agree-deal-acquire-kawhi-leonard-trade-involves-demar-derozan


Some details uncertain, but no matter what, doesn't seem to change much for the power rankings out east. I still have

1. Boston
2. Philly
3. Toronto
...

What do you think?


Boston
Toronto
Philly
Milwaukee

that's my guess at the top four in the east right now.


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Re: Leonard to Toronto

Post by Shamrock1000 on Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:38 am

DeRozan is a good player, but a healthy Kawhi is considerably better. Green will also help Toronto more next year than Poetl would have. Unless there is a chemistry melt-down, Toronto will be a better team next year. I am not a fan of prognosticating further out than that - the NBA is too unpredicatable, and things can change quickly in very unexpected ways.

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Re: Leonard to Toronto

Post by dboss on Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:55 am

KDPS

I still got Boston at #1 followed by Philly and then Toronto at #3

I am taking Philly over Toronto based on their upside.  They finished the regular season with a 16-0 run that was really impressive.  They are returning their core players and have added a solid wing defender in Wilson Chandler.  JJ Reddick comes back,  Embid, Simmons and Saric should all be better and Robert Covington who made the All NBA defensive first team is still on board.  I have not mentioned Fultz as he is an unknown.

Toronto upgraded their SF wing position by getting Leonard but there will be chemistry issues here.  We also do not know if Leonard is physically capable of returning to his 2016-17 level of play.  His attitude may also be a factor.  With this deal Toronto also traded away their Backup center Poeltl who was 2nd on the team in block shots and played around 19 MPG.  Their assistant coach Nurse has been promoted to head coach.  Since he ran the offense before there should be some continuity there.  But a new coach and a major new chemistry mix and a weaker front line may poise a challenge for this team.
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Re: Leonard to Toronto

Post by Shamrock1000 on Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:04 pm

Losing Belinelli and Ilyasova could really hurt the 76ers. Without those two, Reddick is the only guy who can shoot reliably. Spacing on the 76ers could be problematic. Although their future is bright overall, given the sky high expectations, I wouldn't be surprised if Philly disappoints next year.

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Re: Leonard to Toronto

Post by dboss on Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:48 pm

Shamrock1000 wrote:Losing Belinelli and Ilyasova could really hurt the 76ers. Without those two, Reddick is the only guy who can shoot reliably. Spacing on the 76ers could be problematic. Although their future is bright overall, given the sky high expectations, I wouldn't be surprised if Philly disappoints next year.

Rock

I really do not think they will miss either of them based on their playoff contributions

Belinelli shot 34.8% from the line and cannot cover a ham sandwich
Ilyasova shot 29% from 3

Both these guys were partial rentals and they served their purpose.

Philly was not able to entice James to sign with them and like Boston they were reluctant to part with their best players in Embid and Simmons) I heard Fultz was also off limits. They could not make a deal for Leonard

I do agree that they still lack sufficient 3 point shooters. But they have everything else to compete.

Toronto could end up 2nd. That is quite possible. I think I am basing my prediction on the overall upside of the Sixers vs the Raptors.

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Re: Leonard to Toronto

Post by kdp59 on Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:08 pm

Chandler was a good pickup for Philly, but I;m not sure he moves the needle that much over Ilyasova to be honest.

the skinny euro kid who shot the hell out of the ball in summer could get some of of Belinelli's minutes, unless someone blows on him and he falls down.

I never thought a lot of Casey as a head coach myself, though I am probably in the minority about that. But I see him being gone as a PLUS for Toronto myself
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Re: Leonard to Toronto

Post by NYCelt on Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:39 pm

I make it...

Boston
Toronto
Philly
Milwaukee

(IF Leonard is healthy)

I think Boston, Toronto and Philly could be really close by season end.

Not like the West yet, but the East is getting a little more interesting.
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Re: Leonard to Toronto

Post by swedeinestonia on Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:29 pm

Is it possible that this is just Lakers working around the Spurs not wanting to trade him to them at a "fair" rate? Raptors can trade Kawhi at the deadline no?
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Re: Leonard to Toronto

Post by Shamrock1000 on Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:39 pm

swedeinestonia wrote:Is it possible that this is just Lakers working around the Spurs not wanting to trade him to them at a "fair" rate? Raptors can trade Kawhi at the deadline no?

Because Kawhi can opt out at the end of the year, his value will be seriously depreciated at the trade deadline. No way Toronto could get back value equivalent to what they gave up.

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Re: Leonard to Toronto

Post by swedeinestonia on Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:49 pm

Shamrock1000 wrote:
swedeinestonia wrote:Is it possible that this is just Lakers working around the Spurs not wanting to trade him to them at a "fair" rate? Raptors can trade Kawhi at the deadline no?

Because Kawhi can opt out at the end of the year, his value will be seriously depreciated at the trade deadline. No way Toronto could get back value equivalent to what they gave up.

Well it could be a way of getting out of DeRozans contract if they dont think he is the guy. Dont know what their salary situation is but if they get something they like out of lakers and got rid of DeRozan they might be able to go for one of the big fishes in next years FA if their salary situation allows it?
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Re: Leonard to Toronto

Post by k_j_88 on Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:49 pm

This might be the biggest surprise of the offseason.

...And on that note, one thing is for certain: Toronto's top brass had zero confidence in the DeRozan/Lowry combination's ability to win a title. You don't just fire a COY with a franchise record of wins and trade your best player if you're confident in your team.


KJ
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Re: Leonard to Toronto

Post by swish on Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:56 pm

swedeinestonia wrote:
Shamrock1000 wrote:
swedeinestonia wrote:Is it possible that this is just Lakers working around the Spurs not wanting to trade him to them at a "fair" rate? Raptors can trade Kawhi at the deadline no?

Because Kawhi can opt out at the end of the year, his value will be seriously depreciated at the trade deadline. No way Toronto could get back value equivalent to what they gave up.

Well it could be a way of getting out of DeRozans contract if they dont think he is the guy. Dont know what their salary situation is but if they get something they like out of lakers and got rid of DeRozan they might be able to go for one of the big fishes in next years FA if their salary situation allows it?

I think it was a good move by Toronto to get out of a over priced contract on a scorer with a lousy EFG that still has 3 years left on his current contract.

swish


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Re: Leonard to Toronto

Post by Shamrock1000 on Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:07 pm

swish wrote:
swedeinestonia wrote:
Shamrock1000 wrote:
swedeinestonia wrote:Is it possible that this is just Lakers working around the Spurs not wanting to trade him to them at a "fair" rate? Raptors can trade Kawhi at the deadline no?

Because Kawhi can opt out at the end of the year, his value will be seriously depreciated at the trade deadline. No way Toronto could get back value equivalent to what they gave up.

Well it could be a way of getting out of DeRozans contract if they dont think he is the guy. Dont know what their salary situation is but if they get something they like out of lakers and got rid of DeRozan they might be able to go for one of the big fishes in next years FA if their salary situation allows it?

I think it was a good move by Toronto to get out of a over priced contract on a scorer with a lousy EFG that still has 3 years left on his current contract.

  swish


If that was their goal, then they could have traded him for an over-priced veteran (or two) with one or two years left, and in return for taking those contracts, the other team would have to add picks/young talent as sweeteners. That way they get the cap relief, but you also get talent/potential.

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Re: Leonard to Toronto

Post by swedeinestonia on Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:13 pm

Or actually more likely than the Lakers would be the Clippers since they would be the ones willing to overpay to get him before he hits free agency.
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Re: Leonard to Toronto

Post by swish on Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:09 pm

Shamrock1000 wrote:
swish wrote:
swedeinestonia wrote:
Shamrock1000 wrote:
swedeinestonia wrote:Is it possible that this is just Lakers working around the Spurs not wanting to trade him to them at a "fair" rate? Raptors can trade Kawhi at the deadline no?

Because Kawhi can opt out at the end of the year, his value will be seriously depreciated at the trade deadline. No way Toronto could get back value equivalent to what they gave up.

Well it could be a way of getting out of DeRozans contract if they dont think he is the guy. Dont know what their salary situation is but if they get something they like out of lakers and got rid of DeRozan they might be able to go for one of the big fishes in next years FA if their salary situation allows it?

I think it was a good move by Toronto to get out of a over priced contract on a scorer with a lousy EFG that still has 3 years left on his current contract.

  swish


If that was their goal, then they could have traded him for an over-priced veteran (or two) with one or two years left, and in return for taking those contracts, the other team would have to add picks/young talent as sweeteners. That way they get the cap relief, but you also get talent/potential.

And maybe they feel that they have a chance to sign a better player(Leonard) - and if not - the money will be available to again be a player in the free agent market in a year or two. Just speculation on my part.

swish

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Re: Leonard to Toronto

Post by dboss on Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:16 pm

Whoever gets the best player AND is able to keep him wins the trade.

It does show a level of weakness on the part of the Raptors.  No one else was giving up their best player for Leonard.

Double edged sword, health and pending walkabout next year
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