What can GHayward do?

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What can GHayward do?

Post by TheHat on Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:28 am

OK, I'd like to head down a different alley now. Hayward is an All-Star, and was "the man" in Utah. His scoring has increased steadily since his rookie year, to the low 20's/game. His efficiency is not extremely high, though his foul shooting was last at .844. His rebounding is not big for a forward, he's a light-weight, and maybe with Gobert and Favors he wasn't called on to do that much. I don't really know his game, but he seems to have a mid-range and slashing game. How's his handle? Can he dribble inside under control and make things happen? Is he a good interior passer? Can he see the angles to get people shots in close? Or are we really becoming an outside shooting club? Does he get out on the break, and can the team get the rebound to feed him?
Just looking to relieve my anxiety while waiting for pre-season games to see if they'll be as dominant as I expect.

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Re: What can GHayward do?

Post by cowens/oldschool on Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:42 am

Gordon at the same age of Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum was not as good, took time to develop, was a legit all star in his last year with Jazz, got better in all phases every year. In 17 playoffs could get his shot off and carry his team, no problem, had a few 40 point games I believe, can score at all levels and create for others. Been a player that got better every year. Obviously won’t have to carry us as much as Jazz, looking forward to see how his game looks with so much talent....
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Re: What can GHayward do?

Post by sinus007 on Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:17 am

Hi,
My take on GH is that he's not Lebron or KD or KL. But I believe in coach Stevens. He will incorporate GH into the core and will utilize all his talents and skills.

AK
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Re: What can GHayward do?

Post by dboss on Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:13 am

Let's peel back a few layers here.

The 3  years before Gordon came to Boston he averaged 19.3, 19.7 and 21.9 PPG.  The 4 years before that he showed steady improvement each year (5.4, 11.8, 14.1 and 16.2 PPG.

The last 3 years holds the most significance and I think they can be used as a measuring stick to gauge his likely production.  We however should be mindful of that fact that Gordon was the go-to guy on those Utah teams but he will not be the main guy on this team.

Some of us including myself have envisioned Gordon as a playmaker  as a ball handler, passer or scorer where the offense can run through him.  However he is less of a natural playmaker  than we may realize.

His A/TO ratio do not fit the profile of a playmaker.  He has never been above 1.9
Gordon is a solid 3 point shooter at 36.9% (over 3 years) but if he continues to shoot at that level he will be below the team average of .377.  

Gordon is a solid rebounder and averages around 5 per game.  He is a positional rebounder.

Gordon is an average defender and was greatly helped by having the rim protecting Gobert roaming the painted area.

Gordon has a very high basketball IQ

In sum Gordon Hayward is not great in any one  area but is more than solid across the board in all areas.  He was the main go-to guy in Utah  but he will now be part of a diverse team lead by superstar Kyrie Irving.  Gordon will benefit from playing alongside a group of solid defenders and shooters.  Teammates will benefit greatly from his ability to spread the floor which will open up shots from them.

I expect 16 PPG, 4.5 boards and 3.5 assists given a reduced workload.  He will be an integral part of the team's success this season.
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Re: What can GHayward do?

Post by Shamrock1000 on Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:15 pm

dboss wrote:Let's peel back a few layers here.

The 3  years before Gordon came to Boston he averaged 19.3, 19.7 and 21.9 PPG.  The 4 years before that he showed steady improvement each year (5.4, 11.8, 14.1 and 16.2 PPG.

The last 3 years holds the most significance and I think they can be used as a measuring stick to gauge his likely production.  We however should be mindful of that fact that Gordon was the go-to guy on those Utah teams but he will not be the main guy on this team.

Some of us including myself have envisioned Gordon as a playmaker  as a ball handler, passer or scorer where the offense can run through him.  However he is less of a natural playmaker  than we may realize.

His A/TO ratio do not fit the profile of a playmaker.  He has never been above 1.9
Gordon is a solid 3 point shooter at 36.9% (over 3 years) but if he continues to shoot at that level he will be below the team average of .377.  

Gordon is a solid rebounder and averages around 5 per game.  He is a positional rebounder.

Gordon is an average defender and was greatly helped by having the rim protecting Gobert roaming the painted area.

Gordon has a very high basketball IQ

In sum Gordon Hayward is not great in any one  area but is more than solid across the board in all areas.  He was the main go-to guy in Utah  but he will now be part of a diverse team lead by superstar Kyrie Irving.  Gordon will benefit from playing alongside a group of solid defenders and shooters.  Teammates will benefit greatly from his ability to spread the floor which will open up shots from them.

I expect 16 PPG, 4.5 boards and 3.5 assists given a reduced workload.  He will be an integral part of the team's success this season.

Excellent analysis. 16, 4.5, 3.5 sounds about right and would be perfect production for this team. Of course some people will complain that those numbers don't merit a max contract. I would have thought GH had a better 3 pt %; this number may improve this year since he will likely get better looks.

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Re: What can GHayward do?

Post by dboss on Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:54 pm

Shamrock1000 wrote:
dboss wrote:Let's peel back a few layers here.

The 3  years before Gordon came to Boston he averaged 19.3, 19.7 and 21.9 PPG.  The 4 years before that he showed steady improvement each year (5.4, 11.8, 14.1 and 16.2 PPG.

The last 3 years holds the most significance and I think they can be used as a measuring stick to gauge his likely production.  We however should be mindful of that fact that Gordon was the go-to guy on those Utah teams but he will not be the main guy on this team.

Some of us including myself have envisioned Gordon as a playmaker  as a ball handler, passer or scorer where the offense can run through him.  However he is less of a natural playmaker  than we may realize.

His A/TO ratio do not fit the profile of a playmaker.  He has never been above 1.9
Gordon is a solid 3 point shooter at 36.9% (over 3 years) but if he continues to shoot at that level he will be below the team average of .377.  

Gordon is a solid rebounder and averages around 5 per game.  He is a positional rebounder.

Gordon is an average defender and was greatly helped by having the rim protecting Gobert roaming the painted area.

Gordon has a very high basketball IQ

In sum Gordon Hayward is not great in any one  area but is more than solid across the board in all areas.  He was the main go-to guy in Utah  but he will now be part of a diverse team lead by superstar Kyrie Irving.  Gordon will benefit from playing alongside a group of solid defenders and shooters.  Teammates will benefit greatly from his ability to spread the floor which will open up shots from them.

I expect 16 PPG, 4.5 boards and 3.5 assists given a reduced workload.  He will be an integral part of the team's success this season.

Excellent analysis. 16, 4.5, 3.5 sounds about right and would be perfect production for this team. Of course some people will complain that those numbers don't merit a max contract. I would have thought GH had a better 3 pt %; this number may improve this year since he will likely get better looks.

Rock

Looking at contracts in the max range across the board makes me shudder.  However he could have stayed in Utah and made more money.  If Boston did not have a plethora of wings on this team that can score, I would expect GH to be closer to the 18-20+ PPG range.  And he is more than capable of leading the Celtics in scoring on any given night.  

We have to keep in mind that the Celtics are configured in such a way that he does not really need to top off at the high end.  Jaylen Brown was 2nd on the team in scoring last year and Tatum was 3rd around the same level as Brown.  However during the playoffs both hit 18 + PPG and that was because Kyrie was missing.  Having a roster with so many outstanding scorers means less reliance on our leading scorer.  It means that everyone may see a dip in their FGA.  

I would like to see our FGA go up and I think this can happen by getting more steals, more defensive rebounds, committing fewer turnovers and playing more fast break basketball.  The overall pace and intensity should be at a much higher level because the depth of this roster allows for each and every player to go full tilt.  Fatigue should never be a factor and as Brad is able to determine efficiency at both ends we should see an explosion of great basketball on a consistent basis.
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Re: What can GHayward do?

Post by Shamrock1000 on Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:21 pm

dboss wrote:
Shamrock1000 wrote:
dboss wrote:Let's peel back a few layers here.

The 3  years before Gordon came to Boston he averaged 19.3, 19.7 and 21.9 PPG.  The 4 years before that he showed steady improvement each year (5.4, 11.8, 14.1 and 16.2 PPG.

The last 3 years holds the most significance and I think they can be used as a measuring stick to gauge his likely production.  We however should be mindful of that fact that Gordon was the go-to guy on those Utah teams but he will not be the main guy on this team.

Some of us including myself have envisioned Gordon as a playmaker  as a ball handler, passer or scorer where the offense can run through him.  However he is less of a natural playmaker  than we may realize.

His A/TO ratio do not fit the profile of a playmaker.  He has never been above 1.9
Gordon is a solid 3 point shooter at 36.9% (over 3 years) but if he continues to shoot at that level he will be below the team average of .377.  

Gordon is a solid rebounder and averages around 5 per game.  He is a positional rebounder.

Gordon is an average defender and was greatly helped by having the rim protecting Gobert roaming the painted area.

Gordon has a very high basketball IQ

In sum Gordon Hayward is not great in any one  area but is more than solid across the board in all areas.  He was the main go-to guy in Utah  but he will now be part of a diverse team lead by superstar Kyrie Irving.  Gordon will benefit from playing alongside a group of solid defenders and shooters.  Teammates will benefit greatly from his ability to spread the floor which will open up shots from them.

I expect 16 PPG, 4.5 boards and 3.5 assists given a reduced workload.  He will be an integral part of the team's success this season.

Excellent analysis. 16, 4.5, 3.5 sounds about right and would be perfect production for this team. Of course some people will complain that those numbers don't merit a max contract. I would have thought GH had a better 3 pt %; this number may improve this year since he will likely get better looks.

Rock

Looking at contracts in the max range across the board makes me shudder.  However he could have stayed in Utah and made more money.  If Boston did not have a plethora of wings on this team that can score, I would expect GH to be closer to the 18-20+ PPG range.  And he is more than capable of leading the Celtics in scoring on any given night.  

We have to keep in mind that the Celtics are configured in such a way that he does not really need to top off at the high end.  Jaylen Brown was 2nd on the team in scoring last year and Tatum was 3rd around the same level as Brown.  However during the playoffs both hit 18 + PPG and that was because Kyrie was missing.  Having a roster with so many outstanding scorers means less reliance on our leading scorer.  It means that everyone may see a dip in their FGA.  

I would like to see our FGA go up and I think this can happen by getting more steals, more defensive rebounds, committing fewer turnovers and playing more fast break basketball.  The overall pace and intensity should be at a much higher level because the depth of this roster allows for each and every player to go full tilt.  Fatigue should never be a factor and as Brad is able to determine efficiency at both ends we should see an explosion of great basketball on a consistent basis.

Couldn't agree more. When I said "some people will complain those numbers don't merit a max" I wasn't including myself. I was thinking of the folks who already complain that Al doesn't deserve a max. As you point out, with the team we have, Gordon shouldn't have to put up huge numbers. I would almost argue that if he is scoring in the high 20s, then something has gone wrong. It would be tough to take a seven game series from a team that has several players averging mid to high teens in scoring (and capable of going for 30 any given night). This year's Celtics could be that type of team.

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Re: What can GHayward do?

Post by dboss on Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:08 pm

The money that Al Horford earns is consistent with a 5 time Allstar. He's top 10 in rebounds and blocks as well as top 10 in assists and 3 pt % (#2) among PF's.

The amazing transformation about Horford is that he has become an outstanding shooter from range. He did not become a 3 pt shooter until his 9th year in the league while playing with the Hawks. In Boston he has become a dangerous weapon because of his ability to shoot the 3 ball and his ability to find open guys in the offense where he is 4th in assist among PF.

Al does all the little things that make his teammates better. His attitude and persona
reflects tremendous leadership skills.

The money that he makes is worth every penny because he is a perfect fit for the Celtics and the style of play that coach Stevens has implemented.
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Re: What can GHayward do?

Post by cowens/oldschool on Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:48 pm

Al is also a very good underrated defender
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Re: What can GHayward do?

Post by wideclyde on Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:01 pm

I see Hayward if he starts as the guy who is between 16 and 20 points per game for the Cs this season if he is healthy. If he starts then either of Tatum or Brown will work from the bench and do quite well.

If he works with the second unit he will be a 14-16 point scorer. Either way, he is going to be a strong plus to this year's squad in that he is already a talented NBA player with good experience (but, not too old) and has shown to be a very consistent player.

He will make us better for all the things that he can do, and making our team better may be enough to gather in banner #18.

Let the season begin.

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Re: What can GHayward do?

Post by dboss on Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:32 pm

As we can really only speculate who will be the starting 5 on opening night, we are sure to see several starting units throughout the year.
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Re: What can GHayward do?

Post by NYCelt on Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:01 pm

What can Hayward do? He can shoot.

Not a gifted ball handler, but good enough. An adequate defender, although this is the area that could be most compromised by his injury. Can board a little. But still, a solid all-around player. Kind of guy that can get an All-Star nod every now and then.

Boston got him to improve their shooting. If he can get back to form, I think that's just what he'll do.

So yeah, he can put the ball in the hoop. Hopefully one more weapon for the '18 - '19 season.
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Re: What can GHayward do?

Post by mrkleen09 on Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:48 am

Lots of good analysis here - only thing I want to push back on is the idea that Hayward isnt a good rebounder.

He is above average - and his 5.4 per game in 2016/17 had him at 13th in the league at his position, - that same number would have netted him 11th in the NBA last season. So not a beast on the boards, but FAR from a "lightweight" as the OP claimed.

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Re: What can GHayward do?

Post by RosalieTCeltics on Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:55 pm

People are underrating Gordon Hayward. This injury that he sustained has put a cloud for some fans eyes.
The Celtics did not lust after Hayward for no reason. He is a solid, all around good player. Sit back and enjoy the ride, once he gets his playing legs under him again, we will all be pleasantly surprised (not me, I can't wait!!)
He will be worthy of the contract he is getting (if anyone is truly worthy of some of the money that is thrown around in the NBA!!)

Three weeks, but who is counting????

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