Ray Allen: Rajon Rondo stopped passing to me, and Doc Rivers responded by bringing me off bench

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Ray Allen: Rajon Rondo stopped passing to me, and Doc Rivers responded by bringing me off bench

Post by bobheckler on Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:17 am

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/ray-allen-rajon-rondo-stopped-154620710.html



Ray Allen: Rajon Rondo stopped passing to me, and Doc Rivers responded by bringing me off bench




NBC Sports
September 7, 2018, 9:46 AM MDT



Even as he enters the Basketball Hall of Fame, Ray Allen will receive few congratulations from the 2008 Celtics. Most of the problems between Allen and his former teammates stem from him leaving Boston for Miami in 2012.

But some predate him signing with the Heat – especially with Rajon Rondo.


Allen on his final year with the Celtics, via NBC Sports Boston:

There were parts throughout the season where I was starting to feel this type of resentment toward me on the floor. Other people would tell me at first, and I would ignore it, because I don’t like people getting into my team business, because this is my teammate. But people would always say, “He looks you off. When you come off a screen, he sees you and he doesn’t pass you the ball when you’re open.”

At first, my family would say it, because they watch intently, and they they know the game. And so I just said, “Listen, because you have said this before about other guys, but I don’t engage in that.” So then, I started paying attention to it, because I started noticing it.


And I went to Doc. And I asked Doc, and I said, “Doc, I think dude is looking me off, and he’s not passing me the ball. And I don’t know why, but I’m coming off, I’m running the plays that you’re drawing up, and he’s not passing me the ball. And he’ll shoot it or he’ll go in the other direction.”

And Doc’s response was, “I know. We talked about it as a coaching staff.”

I was like, “Wow. So you knew this whole time and you didn’t say anything. You didn’t address it to me and, more importantly, you’re not addressing him about it.”

I think his response or his way of handling it was, this is when he wanted to bring me off the bench.

Remember, this is just Allen’s point of view. Rondo and Rivers could recall events differently.

Rondo has previously implied Allen shouldn’t be viewed as credible, though it’s also worth acknowledging how stubborn Rondo can be. Maybe Rondo did this. Maybe he didn’t. It’s at least believable.

It’s also worth emphasizing Allen said his family previously accused other teammates of doing this. Maybe Allen has just happened to play with teammates that selfish. Or maybe his family is too suspicious and that rubbed off on Allen.

But if we take Allen’s account at face value, it’s a good reminder coaching in the NBA is difficult. Bringing Allen off the bench behind Avery Bradley, which limited Allen’s playing time with Rondo, contributed to Allen feeling unwelcome in Boston then leaving for Miami. On the other hand, confronting Rondo could have led to even worse problems for the Celtics. Rivers and Rondo already had tension in their relationship (that later worsened).

There isn’t always a good answer.

Players sometimes have agendas that interfere with winning. It’s on the coaching to manage that.

It wouldn’t be fair to Allen that he got demoted because a teammate was being selfish, but the NBA isn’t always fair. That might have been Boston’s best strategy for maximizing winning.



bob
MY NOTE:  I think Ray is forgetting about his games lost due to chronic bone spurs in his ankles and discounting Avery's ascension.  Nevertheless, it shows that Ubuntu wasn't enforced by Doc.  You pass to one of the best shooters in the history of the NBA if he's open, whether you like him or not.


.


Last edited by bobheckler on Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Ray Allen: Rajon Rondo stopped passing to me, and Doc Rivers responded by bringing me off bench

Post by cowens/oldschool on Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:45 am

I hope whenever they have future events to honor the team they do NOT invite Ray Allen.
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Re: Ray Allen: Rajon Rondo stopped passing to me, and Doc Rivers responded by bringing me off bench

Post by dboss on Sat Sep 08, 2018 1:00 pm

Ray Allen was a great player and it is too bad that he is hell bent on rehabilitating his image.

But as you guys know I always say show me the numbers.

I took a look at FGA for the big 3 for the last 3 years of Ray's tenure with the Celtics.

(09-10)  RA 12.2, PP 12.2 KG 11.2
(10-11)  RA 12.2, PP 12.8, KG 11.5
(11-12)  RA 10.7, PP 14.6, KG 13.0

Ray's FGA the last year with Boston dropped by 1.5 FGA per game.  That was a subtle drop in attempts but Ray has always been anal in his approach to the game.  The 11-12 was the year that Ray shot an astounding .453 from behind the arc.  It was his best year ever.  He suggest that Rondo would either shoot the ball or pass elsewhere.  That last year Rondo's FGA went down to 9.9 per game from 11.2 the previous year.  He definitely was not taking more shots at Ray's expense.

There was obviously a rift between Ray and Rondo and if as Ray indicates, doc and the coaching staff knew Rondo was looking past him, they did not do a very good job bringing things together.

In the end Ray had a very small reduction in shots per game.  The fact is that he did not want to come off the bench as he looked at that as a demotion even though his last year both him and PP played 34 MPG.  Ray was still getting starter minutes

So he goes to the heat and becomes a rotation player at 25.8 MPG and getting only 8.2 FGA.

Maybe one day the big three will get together.  Ray has presented a rather weak argument for why he left.
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Re: Ray Allen: Rajon Rondo stopped passing to me, and Doc Rivers responded by bringing me off bench

Post by mulcogiseng on Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:50 pm

I'll always be appreciative of the contributions Milwaukee Bucks HOF great Ray Allen made to Boston's big 4 during that championship run. Ray had such a quick release, to bad he can't let this one go.
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Re: Ray Allen: Rajon Rondo stopped passing to me, and Doc Rivers responded by bringing me off bench

Post by Matty on Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:55 pm

When Ray left, and the way he left basically was giving the finger to the team, his teammates and some if us fans felt like we were getting it to.

Now he's a bit butt hurt that all these years later that some of us are still happy to return the favor all these years later.

Not to get religious here, but once a fella said to do to others as ya want them to do to you. Mebbe he said that knowing some of us will do back into others as they have done to us and it save sensitive people like Ray from being so hurt when they are paid back in kind.
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Re: Ray Allen: Rajon Rondo stopped passing to me, and Doc Rivers responded by bringing me off bench

Post by gyso on Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:23 pm

One of Doc's so called strengths was his ability to manage the personalities of strong willed players with big egos. If this report is true, then his player management skills may have been exaggerated. Hey Matty, should we have fired Doc? Very Happy

I remember a rumor from way back that Delonte West would freeze out Rondo, I think it was in Rondo's rookie season. I think that if anyone would catch on to this kind of thing, it would be the coaching staff. I believe that the player's family may just see what they want to see.

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Re: Ray Allen: Rajon Rondo stopped passing to me, and Doc Rivers responded by bringing me off bench

Post by dboss on Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:57 pm

So he left for 1.5 fewer shots per game?

Even if the story is true what was Doc supposed to do?  Tell Rondo to pass Ray the ball more?  If his shot attempts were significantly down I could see that but for all I know Ray was a half step slower.  He only played 49 games that year.

Sure glad Doc is gone.  Brad Stevens relies on ball movement.
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Re: Ray Allen: Rajon Rondo stopped passing to me, and Doc Rivers responded by bringing me off bench

Post by RosalieTCeltics on Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:45 pm

He left for what ever reason I loved Ray long before he came here. His decision to leave left a bad taste in my mouth for one reason....He never has shut up ripping his former teammates. He just would not and has not shut up about it. It is over, Ray. You are a HOF'er, good luck to you. It seems that no matter where he goes, he finds it necessary to rip Rondo and even KG. This is sad. I do believe he was not as close to these guys as Doc would like you to believe.

Get over it Ray, it is over. You had a great career, and we're lucky enough to be on a team that helped you get your first ring. Let it go.
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Re: Ray Allen: Rajon Rondo stopped passing to me, and Doc Rivers responded by bringing me off bench

Post by cowens/oldschool on Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:13 pm

KG has shown a lot of class by never talking about this shit!!

Ray please just shut the fock up...!!!
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Re: Ray Allen: Rajon Rondo stopped passing to me, and Doc Rivers responded by bringing me off bench

Post by worcester on Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:54 pm

I still love Ray, especially for bringing attention to the Holocaust,but Mulcogiseng sums it up with delicious irony,

"Ray had such a quick release, to bad he can't let this one go."
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Re: Ray Allen: Rajon Rondo stopped passing to me, and Doc Rivers responded by bringing me off bench

Post by Matty on Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:04 am

gyso wrote:One of Doc's so called strengths was his ability to manage the personalities of strong willed players with big egos.  If this report is true, then his player management skills may have been exaggerated.  Hey Matty, should we have fired Doc?  Very Happy

I remember a rumor from way back that Delonte West would freeze out Rondo, I think it was in Rondo's rookie season.  I think that if anyone would catch on to this kind of thing, it would be the coaching staff.  I believe that the player's family may just see what they want to see.

lol! we got a draft pick for him, that was even better. In my next life I will probably go by "Trade Doc".
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Re: Ray Allen: Rajon Rondo stopped passing to me, and Doc Rivers responded by bringing me off bench

Post by wideclyde on Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:54 am

If Allen's accusation has any merit, it is just another reason why Rajon Rondo had to go from Boston.

Even if he personally did not like Allen, Rondo, as the point guard had the responsibility to pass the ball to the open man.

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Re: Ray Allen: Rajon Rondo stopped passing to me, and Doc Rivers responded by bringing me off bench

Post by hawksnestbeach on Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:27 pm

I second comments by both Cowens and Matty in this thread. As I recall, Ray stopped playing effective defense in his last few seasons. I didn't see much effort, and of course Avery was a far better defender. Ray was a terrific talent in his prime, but trying to blame Rondo for his shortcomings at the end is telling. I'll bet if their teammates from those years had a choice of playing with Rondo or Ray, Ray would be pretty lonely. Hawk

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Re: Ray Allen: Rajon Rondo stopped passing to me, and Doc Rivers responded by bringing me off bench

Post by Ktronic1 on Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:42 pm

dboss wrote:Ray Allen was a great player and it is too bad that he is hell bent on rehabilitating his image.

But as you guys know I always say show me the numbers.

I took a look at FGA for the big 3 for the last 3 years of Ray's tenure with the Celtics.

(09-10)  RA 12.2, PP 12.2 KG 11.2
(10-11)  RA 12.2, PP 12.8, KG 11.5
(11-12)  RA 10.7, PP 14.6, KG 13.0

Ray's FGA the last year with Boston dropped by 1.5 FGA per game.  That was a subtle drop in attempts but Ray has always been anal in his approach to the game.  The 11-12 was the year that Ray shot an astounding .453 from behind the arc.  It was his best year ever.  He suggest that Rondo would either shoot the ball or pass elsewhere.  That last year Rondo's FGA went down to 9.9 per game from 11.2 the previous year.  He definitely was not taking more shots at Ray's expense.

There was obviously a rift between Ray and Rondo and if as Ray indicates, doc and the coaching staff knew Rondo was looking past him, they did not do a very good job bringing things together.

In the end Ray had a very small reduction in shots per game.  The fact is that he did not want to come off the bench as he looked at that as a demotion even though his last year both him and PP played 34 MPG.  Ray was still getting starter minutes

So he goes to the heat and becomes a rotation player at 25.8 MPG and getting only 8.2 FGA.

Maybe one day the big three will get together.  Ray has presented a rather weak argument for why he left.
What about the team putting off contract negotiations with him while continually getting deals done for others. I realize that this is not rare but I listened to the entire interview and one thing that Ray said was important to him even back to his days of playing HS ball, is that he felt wanted. Trite as that may seem to others, It was, according to Ray, important to him. Ray stated that this played a part in his decision to leave. If he’s being honest (and I think he is) I can respect that.
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Re: Ray Allen: Rajon Rondo stopped passing to me, and Doc Rivers responded by bringing me off bench

Post by Ktronic1 on Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:59 pm

I’m just as green as anyone in this room but as I recall (Area 21 on TNT for example) KG, Paul, Big Baby and Rondo ALL talked about the situation with Ray. This was before I heard anything from Ray. Doesn’t mean that Ray didn’t speak on it prior to but “I” had not heard him say anything about this until after some of the players on the team had spoken on it numerous times.
Ray wrote a book and addressed this issue, and he should have. He’s continually being asked about it and giving answers. And he should. Some of us don’t believe some of what he is saying and perhaps some of us do. I was pissed when he left and didn’t like where he went but can we at least agree that there are many sides to this. Now...on to banner 18 sans Ray, KG, PP and Rajon.
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Re: Ray Allen: Rajon Rondo stopped passing to me, and Doc Rivers responded by bringing me off bench

Post by RosalieTCeltics on Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:07 pm

Ray Allen started talking about his situation with the Celtics right after he left this team. Every time he was interviewed he took a shot at them.

I speak as one of Ray's biggest fans from long before he joined the Celtics. This is the one thing that has bothered me about his leaving. He had the right, he took the offer and left. I always said good, it is done.
Why take shots at the team that put you in this position to start off with. Walk away. You look way back you will see the stories about this.

So...even though I believe this is an overblown mess, he has kept this story going. That studio 21 interview was long after all of this started. Look back, you will see.
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Re: Ray Allen: Rajon Rondo stopped passing to me, and Doc Rivers responded by bringing me off bench

Post by worcester on Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:19 pm

Delonte definitely would not pass the ball to Rondo. A vivid memory.
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Re: Ray Allen: Rajon Rondo stopped passing to me, and Doc Rivers responded by bringing me off bench

Post by Ktronic1 on Sun Sep 09, 2018 3:08 pm

RosalieTCeltics wrote:Ray Allen started talking about his situation with the Celtics right after he left this team. Every time he was interviewed he took a shot at them.  

I speak as one of Ray's biggest fans from long before he joined the Celtics.  This is the one thing that has bothered me about his leaving. He had the right, he took the offer and left.  I always said good, it is done.
Why take shots at the team that put you in this position to start off with. Walk away.  You look way back you will see the stories about this.  

So...even though I believe this is an overblown mess, he has kept this story going. That studio 21 interview was long after all of this started.  Look back, you will see.

You may be right about who spoke first. As I said, the first I heard anyone speak of it was when one of the Celts spoke about it. The Area 21 piece was not the first time team members spoke out about it. As far as I’m concerned its not really important as to who spoke first. Most important is what’s been said and continues to be said. As I said, I listened to the entire interview with Ray and your good buddy Draper lol! and can sympathize with some of what Ray said (if true). And you’re right, time to put this one to bed. #18 is in sight and IT takes precedence.
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Re: Ray Allen: Rajon Rondo stopped passing to me, and Doc Rivers responded by bringing me off bench

Post by cowens/oldschool on Sun Sep 09, 2018 3:32 pm

Rosalie is totally right.

The last year when Ray lost his starting job, the team played much better with AB starting, as he came into his own and his defense sparked that team. Ray was very good in his role as the 6th man sniper, but AB’s swarming pressing D really helped that team and was fun to watch. Losing AB to shoulder injuries in the playoffs really hurt that team in that heroic 7 game war vs Heat, if only we had a healthy AB and Perk for that series Lol.
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Re: Ray Allen: Rajon Rondo stopped passing to me, and Doc Rivers responded by bringing me off bench

Post by worcester on Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:10 pm

Perk who?
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Re: Ray Allen: Rajon Rondo stopped passing to me, and Doc Rivers responded by bringing me off bench

Post by dboss on Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:00 pm

Ray is promoting his book.  A good controversy is good for sales.  

I think Ray is being honest however it does not enhance his beef.

He wanted more looks than he got.  The small reduction in FGA was way overblown by him.

He accepted less in terns of money and playing time when he left.  But he did get another ring.  

I am a big Ray Allen fan.  I was upset with the rational he embraced for leaving the team.

Celtics Nation is well past Ray Allen.  He is not going to get a lot of sympathy.  If a guy leaves our team for more money you cannot really be upset with that decision.  Ray left for less because he could not accept becoming a rotation player with Boston.  But he was more than willing to accept that roll with rhe Heat and for less money.

This strongly suggests that it was all about Ray and not about the Boston Celtics.
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Re: Ray Allen: Rajon Rondo stopped passing to me, and Doc Rivers responded by bringing me off bench

Post by RosalieTCeltics on Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:27 pm

I believe it was a slap at Danny Ainge. Remember, Danny did try to trade him and that ticked Ray off a lot. When the free agency started that July, the first guy Danny called was KG. Ray felt it should have been him. I do believe he had made up his mind long before the season ended that he was going to Miami. LeBron had been after him during the season. This was the perfect way to give Danny that slap in the face. Letting Riley out bid Danny was his way of walking away and feeling like HE GOTCHA!!!! Riley and Ainge do not like one another.
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Re: Ray Allen: Rajon Rondo stopped passing to me, and Doc Rivers responded by bringing me off bench

Post by swish on Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:07 pm

Maybe he had a beef - His last year with the Celts had him with an outstanding efg of .566 - much better than Pierce .499 and Garnett .505. And based on 36 minutes per game, Pierce put up 15.4 shots per game, Garnett 15.0 and Allen 11.3. While Rondo was taking 10.5 shots per game with a EFG of only .456. If Allen's side of the story is true, I can see why he might have been aggravated by the slight. Sort of like why many question why Smart puts up so many 3 point shots with so little success.

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Re: Ray Allen: Rajon Rondo stopped passing to me, and Doc Rivers responded by bringing me off bench

Post by bobheckler on Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:42 am





bob
MY NOTE:  This was tweeted by KG last week, before Ray's induction.  I guess he's gotten over it.



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Re: Ray Allen: Rajon Rondo stopped passing to me, and Doc Rivers responded by bringing me off bench

Post by Ktronic1 on Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:02 pm

Ray said his choices of teams that made offers (outside of the C’s) came down to Phoenix, Minnesota and Miami. Minnesota and Phoenix offered more than Miami and he said he chose Miami for obvious reasons. (Think winning may have had something to do with it). According to him, The C’s offer came after those teams pitched him.
If one has not listened to the Draper/Ray interview, unless one believes that Ray is a big liar I suggest one should.
Also, His FGA being only slightly down does not mean that Rondo still didn’t look him off when he was open on numerous occasions.
Thank You Paul, KG, Rondo, Ray and the rest of the 08 champions. Appreciate cha! None of those guys can help us win #18 and thats all I care about now.
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