Bird locked up?

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Re: Bird locked up?

Post by Berlin-T on Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:50 am

RosalieTCeltics wrote:To Me, there has to be more to this story.  Worcester is right, something made this kid act the way he did and then go into seizures. They don't just "happen" unless he has had them before and never told anyone. I know, I have had four seizures in my life. Thank God they all happened while I was sleeping.  I am not making any excuses for his behavior, but this is something that we should wait out before passing complete judgement. Thank God she was able to escape herself. God bless her, she still stayed and helped him into bed before leaving. That says something about her. Kind, very kind

I agree with you whole heartily Rosalie. I was so shocked and saddened to read about this. My hope is that both he and his victim are able to recover from this tragedy.

By the way, in an earlier post you mentioned you were a "Newton Girl". That brought back a lot of old, pleasant memories. I lived on Woodbine Street, in Auburndale (can't remember the exact address) for a year and a half in the early 70's.

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Re: Bird locked up?

Post by bobc33 on Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:55 am

Rosalie is from Newton, I’m from Newton, BobH lived in Newton, Berlin lived in Newton....... anyone else?
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Re: Bird locked up?

Post by KyleCleric on Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:24 am

bobc33 wrote:Rosalie is from Newton, I’m from Newton, BobH lived in Newton, Berlin lived in Newton.......  anyone else?

Not me. I work though across the bridge in Needham Heights

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Re: Bird locked up?

Post by bobc33 on Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:45 am

KyleCleric wrote:
bobc33 wrote:Rosalie is from Newton, I’m from Newton, BobH lived in Newton, Berlin lived in Newton.......  anyone else?

Not me. I work though across the bridge in Needham Heights

Close enough, you’re an honorary Newtonian.
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Re: Bird locked up?

Post by Shamrock1000 on Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:31 pm

mrkleen09 wrote:
Shamrock1000 wrote:  

+1  A 6'6 200+ lb professional athlete physically terrorizing a young woman and holding her hostage is more than a "bad decision".

Good job Shamrock.  AT THE TIME (4 days ago), we didnt have real any details which was my point about rushing to judgement.  Glad you had to wait 4 days and until after the story was revealed to rebut my remarks.  Nice Try.

Feeling bad about a guy destroying his career and feeling terrible for the victim are not mutually exclusive thoughts.  Some of us are capable of having two competing thoughts at the same time.  

Yeah, I waited until I had more info, and it prevented me from taking an abhorrent position that equates a woman suffering violent abuse with the price that someone pays for committing that very same abuse. It is usually a safe bet to assume woman-beating is wrong, regardless of the circumstances or details. No regrets here.

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Re: Bird locked up?

Post by mulcogiseng on Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:18 pm

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2018/09/jabari_bird_arrest_boston_celtics.html

For Boston Celtics, it's not as easy as just cutting Jabari Bird after abuse allegations | Matt Vautour
Updated 8:06 AM; Posted 7:05 AM
14
Gallery: Boston Celtic Jabari Bird appears in court on assault, kidnapping, strangulation charges

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By Matt Vautourmvautour@masslive.com
Cut him. Do it now. If Jabari Bird is guilty of what he's accused of, empty his locker and end his Boston Celtics career immediately. Get lost and good riddance.

Reading the details of how he allegedly strangled his girlfriend until she passed out during a four-hour incident in his apartment should make anyone angry.

If there's truth to the allegations, Bird is a bad guy. The faster he's gone the better. He didn't make a mistake, these were the actions of a monster. Get him off the team and out of the league.

That's the most common reaction and a well-intentioned one. A person who would do what Bird allegedly did doesn't deserve to be a professional athlete and all the money and perks that come with it. Certainly cutting him sends the message to other athletes: If you act like that, everything you worked for athletically will be taken away.

However, domestic violence experts say what sounds like an easy, straightforward call -- punishing a bad guy feels righteous -- it might not be the right thing to do and often puts the victim at even greater risk.

Losing an athletic career certainly is not too harsh a price to pay for a crime that despicable. But that often hurts the victim and, depending on the situation, their children, too.

In some cases the issue is financial. Given the time and travel demands on a professional athlete, many wives and girlfriends often give up their own careers to take care of the family. Depending on the situation, leaving an abusive athlete can create impossibly awful decisions and circumstances financially.

Worse, if an athlete is already prone to violent behavior, he'll often blame his wife/girlfriend for reporting his actions and the fact that he got cut because of it. That can put the victim at risk of further violence. The combination of those reasons could dissuade some victims from getting help.

Katie Hnida was the first woman to play Division I college football as a kicker at New Mexico. That triumph happened after she transferred out of the University of Colorado, where she'd been raped by a teammate. She now works as an anti-violence trainer working with teams and leagues in hopes of preventing domestic violence.

"It can be so dangerous for the woman. We don't want zero tolerance because it can end up putting a woman in danger," Hnida said late last month. "If suddenly their husband could lose his million-dollar-paying job, you might not have women who are willing to come forward. They're already worried about getting them in trouble."

Cindy Southworth, the executive vice president of the National Network to End Domestic Violence, agreed.

"Holding offenders accountable is nuanced. I'm opposed to zero tolerance because philosophically, if a victim knows and the offender knows that the very first time the police are called, (the offender) loses (his) job immediately, the risk of her being killed is higher," Southworth said. "He's got a lot to lose and she's got a lot to lose. She knows if she calls, her livelihood, their mortgage, their children's college is at risk. I would much rather look at each situation and have a measured response."

Katherine Redmond, who founded the National Coalition Against Violent Athletes in 1997, sits on Major League Baseball's Domestic Violence policy board. She is also against a zero tolerance policy. If a player is cut after an incident, there's no structure in place to address that player's behavior. A suspended player can be compelled to seek treatment.

"When baseball hands down a suspension of 80 games or 50 games or whatever, the offender has steps they have to take," she said. "They have to go into counseling. MLB will talk to the counsellor. Is he cooperating with you? Has he missed appointments?"

Redmond pointed to Molly Brown, the abused ex-wife of former NFL kicker Josh Brown, as an example. Brown admitted to police, she'd been reluctant to report the abuse because of the financial impact on her family.

"Molly was very fearful of what the future would be like if Josh was cut from the team," King Count Sheriff's Det. Robin Ostrum wrote in a report published by Deadspin, "and how that would impact his ability to pay child support. ... Molly was afraid of it becoming a spectacle in the media and that Josh could (lose) his job."

Redmond suggested each league could create a fund, perhaps supported by fines and/or lost wages by disciplined players and donations by others. It would provide financial support for women trying to extricate themselves from abusive relationships with athletes.

"That's where there should be some kind of fund for victims to tap into," she said. "That was the concern for Molly Brown. What was she supposed to do? She didn't want him fired. She just wanted to be separated from him."

Without the financial intertwining of marriage and children -- Bird and his girlfriend do not live together -- this situation is different. But the nature of what he is accused of increased Southworth's concerns.

"Strangulation increases the risk of homicide by 10 times. Strangling a victim for hours on end is horrifying and very lethal. You can suffer brain damage. Often victims don't know how badly their bodies were impacted from the episode. We encourage victims to get medical treatment and get checked out," she said. "I'm still opposed to zero tolerance, but I would encourage the league to sanction this player with far more serious sanctions than they would for someone who punched or slapped a victim one time. Multiple strangulation is very different than a shove."

Southworth's numbers come from TheHotline.org, the website for the National Domestic Violence hotline (1-800-799-7233). It's page on strangulation emphasized the increased concern. Citing studies, it says that strangulation is "a significant predictor of future lethal violence," and "if your partner has strangled you in the past, your risk of being killed by them is 10 times higher."

Bird clearly needs to be monitored and his girlfriend protected as this gets sorted out.

If the Celtics cut Bird tomorrow, they'd be lauded for it, praised as a franchise that won't be associated with something like that. But waiting gives them options.

See what happens in court. It's possible Bird will get jail time which takes some of the decision out of Boston's hands. While the Celtics will make their own decision whether to cut him, the NBA handles all discipline for players deemed to be in violation of the league's domestic violence policy. The league has already said it's investigating. See what the court finds. See what the league finds.

It's worth getting every bit of information they can to make a decision that includes consideration for the long term safety of the victim. Based on the public statement the Celtics made already, they've set themselves up to do exactly that.

It's the right thing to do.
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Re: Bird locked up?

Post by swish on Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:23 pm

Shamrock1000 wrote:
mrkleen09 wrote:
Shamrock1000 wrote:  

+1  A 6'6 200+ lb professional athlete physically terrorizing a young woman and holding her hostage is more than a "bad decision".

Good job Shamrock.  AT THE TIME (4 days ago), we didnt have real any details which was my point about rushing to judgement.  Glad you had to wait 4 days and until after the story was revealed to rebut my remarks.  Nice Try.

Feeling bad about a guy destroying his career and feeling terrible for the victim are not mutually exclusive thoughts.  Some of us are capable of having two competing thoughts at the same time.  

Yeah, I waited until I had more info, and it prevented me from taking an abhorrent position that equates a woman suffering violent abuse with the price that someone pays for committing that very same abuse. It is usually a safe bet to assume woman-beating is wrong, regardless of the circumstances or details. No regrets here.

Shamrock

I'm with you on this issue.

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Re: Bird locked up?

Post by RosalieTCeltics on Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:18 pm

Hey Berlin....you lived in my favorite part of Newton! Auburndale!!!! I knew there was a reason why I liked you so much!

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Re: Bird locked up?

Post by Shamrock1000 on Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:12 pm

mulcogiseng wrote:https://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2018/09/jabari_bird_arrest_boston_celtics.html

For Boston Celtics, it's not as easy as just cutting Jabari Bird after abuse allegations | Matt Vautour
Updated 8:06 AM; Posted 7:05 AM
14
Gallery: Boston Celtic Jabari Bird appears in court on assault, kidnapping, strangulation charges

4
0
shares
By Matt Vautourmvautour@masslive.com
Cut him. Do it now. If Jabari Bird is guilty of what he's accused of, empty his locker and end his Boston Celtics career immediately. Get lost and good riddance.

Reading the details of how he allegedly strangled his girlfriend until she passed out during a four-hour incident in his apartment should make anyone angry.

If there's truth to the allegations, Bird is a bad guy. The faster he's gone the better. He didn't make a mistake, these were the actions of a monster. Get him off the team and out of the league.

That's the most common reaction and a well-intentioned one. A person who would do what Bird allegedly did doesn't deserve to be a professional athlete and all the money and perks that come with it. Certainly cutting him sends the message to other athletes: If you act like that, everything you worked for athletically will be taken away.

However, domestic violence experts say what sounds like an easy, straightforward call -- punishing a bad guy feels righteous -- it might not be the right thing to do and often puts the victim at even greater risk.

Losing an athletic career certainly is not too harsh a price to pay for a crime that despicable. But that often hurts the victim and, depending on the situation, their children, too.

In some cases the issue is financial. Given the time and travel demands on a professional athlete, many wives and girlfriends often give up their own careers to take care of the family. Depending on the situation, leaving an abusive athlete can create impossibly awful decisions and circumstances financially.

Worse, if an athlete is already prone to violent behavior, he'll often blame his wife/girlfriend for reporting his actions and the fact that he got cut because of it. That can put the victim at risk of further violence. The combination of those reasons could dissuade some victims from getting help.

Katie Hnida was the first woman to play Division I college football as a kicker at New Mexico. That triumph happened after she transferred out of the University of Colorado, where she'd been raped by a teammate. She now works as an anti-violence trainer working with teams and leagues in hopes of preventing domestic violence.

"It can be so dangerous for the woman. We don't want zero tolerance because it can end up putting a woman in danger," Hnida said late last month. "If suddenly their husband could lose his million-dollar-paying job, you might not have women who are willing to come forward. They're already worried about getting them in trouble."

Cindy Southworth, the executive vice president of the National Network to End Domestic Violence, agreed.

"Holding offenders accountable is nuanced. I'm opposed to zero tolerance because philosophically, if a victim knows and the offender knows that the very first time the police are called, (the offender) loses (his) job immediately, the risk of her being killed is higher," Southworth said. "He's got a lot to lose and she's got a lot to lose. She knows if she calls, her livelihood, their mortgage, their children's college is at risk. I would much rather look at each situation and have a measured response."

Katherine Redmond, who founded the National Coalition Against Violent Athletes in 1997, sits on Major League Baseball's Domestic Violence policy board. She is also against a zero tolerance policy. If a player is cut after an incident, there's no structure in place to address that player's behavior. A suspended player can be compelled to seek treatment.

"When baseball hands down a suspension of 80 games or 50 games or whatever, the offender has steps they have to take," she said. "They have to go into counseling. MLB will talk to the counsellor. Is he cooperating with you? Has he missed appointments?"

Redmond pointed to Molly Brown, the abused ex-wife of former NFL kicker Josh Brown, as an example. Brown admitted to police, she'd been reluctant to report the abuse because of the financial impact on her family.

"Molly was very fearful of what the future would be like if Josh was cut from the team," King Count Sheriff's Det. Robin Ostrum wrote in a report published by Deadspin, "and how that would impact his ability to pay child support. ... Molly was afraid of it becoming a spectacle in the media and that Josh could (lose) his job."

Redmond suggested each league could create a fund, perhaps supported by fines and/or lost wages by disciplined players and donations by others. It would provide financial support for women trying to extricate themselves from abusive relationships with athletes.

"That's where there should be some kind of fund for victims to tap into," she said. "That was the concern for Molly Brown. What was she supposed to do? She didn't want him fired. She just wanted to be separated from him."

Without the financial intertwining of marriage and children -- Bird and his girlfriend do not live together -- this situation is different. But the nature of what he is accused of increased Southworth's concerns.

"Strangulation increases the risk of homicide by 10 times. Strangling a victim for hours on end is horrifying and very lethal. You can suffer brain damage. Often victims don't know how badly their bodies were impacted from the episode. We encourage victims to get medical treatment and get checked out,"  she said. "I'm still opposed to zero tolerance, but I would encourage the league to sanction this player with far more serious sanctions than they would for someone who punched or slapped a victim one time. Multiple strangulation is very different than a shove."

Southworth's numbers come from TheHotline.org, the website for the National Domestic Violence hotline (1-800-799-7233). It's page on strangulation emphasized the increased concern. Citing studies, it says that strangulation is "a significant predictor of future lethal violence," and "if your partner has strangled you in the past, your risk of being killed by them is 10 times higher."

Bird clearly needs to be monitored and his girlfriend protected as this gets sorted out.

If the Celtics cut Bird tomorrow, they'd be lauded for it, praised as a franchise that won't be associated with something like that. But waiting gives them options.

See what happens in court. It's possible Bird will get jail time which takes some of the decision out of Boston's hands. While the Celtics will make their own decision whether to cut him, the NBA handles all discipline for players deemed to be in violation of the league's domestic violence policy. The league has already said it's investigating. See what the court finds. See what the league finds.

It's worth getting every bit of information they can to make a decision that includes consideration for the long term safety of the victim. Based on the public statement the Celtics made already, they've set themselves up to do exactly that.

It's the right thing to do.

Couple of things. First, even if one accepts the premise of this article, which I do not, in no way does it suggest that Bird's actions are in anyway excusable. The hesitation to enforce a "zero tolerance policy" is entirely based on practical considerations regarding the best interest of the victim. In no way does it morallly suggest that "mitigating circumstances" might warrant a less severe response. The only reason for a less severe response is to protect the well-being of the victim.

Second, I feel that the author has taken some very nuanced comments/views out of context. The whole idea these experts are espousing is that a restrained response might reduce the risk of harm to the victim, i.e. they want to avoid escalation to even more threatening situations. This might make some sense if the abuse has not yet reached a life threatening level. However, choking someone until they are unconscious is pretty much as escalated as things can get; continuing any further would result in death. Clearly no level of domestic abuse is acceptable, but choking a woman like Bird did is literally seconds away from death.

Although I agree every with the authors premise that things can be more nuanced than they seem, this is an extremely irresponsible article that, intentionally or not, shifts the blame from the perpretator to the victim; "Don't report him, that will only make him more angry".

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Re: Bird locked up?

Post by gyso on Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:32 am

bobc33 wrote:Rosalie is from Newton, I’m from Newton, BobH lived in Newton, Berlin lived in Newton.......  anyone else?

I lived the first 13 years of my life at 15 Newton Ave in Concord, NH.  Does that count?

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Re: Bird locked up?

Post by RosalieTCeltics on Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:56 am

Since it is you, we will make an exception and invite into our club!!

How much water are they getting down in Charlotte? Doesn't your family live around that area too? Hope all is okay
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Re: Bird locked up?

Post by Berlin-T on Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:15 am

RosalieTCeltics wrote:Hey Berlin....you lived in my favorite part of Newton! Auburndale!!!!   I knew there was a reason why I liked you so much!

I'm also a big fan of yours, Rosalie!
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Re: Bird locked up?

Post by gyso on Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:29 am

RosalieTCeltics wrote:Since it is you, we will make an exception and invite into our club!!

How much water are they getting down in Charlotte? Doesn't your family live around that area too?  Hope all is okay

Rosalie,

We decided to stay in Maine until the storm passes out of the country. Our other options were to try to slip into Charlotte on Monday, without knowing anything about the situation there first, or wait to see if Charlotte was okay and then pass through the storm later as we drive south. Waiting until the storm passes seems to be the better option.

Most of our family is in the Charlotte area and the storm will mostly be a 10-12 inch rain event with 30 mph winds. That hasn't started yet, but we plan to stay in touch throughout the weekend.

Our sister and brother in law have hunkered down in Conway, SC (near Myrtle Beach) with a generator and crossed fingers. We have heard from them this morning and they are okay. They probably have one more day of it.

It looks like the storm will pass through Maine on Wednesday and we plan to leave Thursday morning for the two day drive, getting home on Friday..

So far, so good.

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Re: Bird locked up?

Post by TheHat on Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:14 am

I also lived in Newton during my Jr. and Sr. Highschool years, 1967-1972. Mt. Vernon Terr.
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Re: Bird locked up?

Post by bobc33 on Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:50 am

TheHat wrote:I also lived in Newton during my Jr. and Sr. Highschool years, 1967-1972.  Mt. Vernon Terr.
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You’re in! You were a few years ahead of me in school.
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Re: Bird locked up?

Post by RosalieTCeltics on Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:10 pm

Boy this has been a storm to remember, I hope your family gets thru all of this mess. Myrtle Beach was really getting whacked earlier. My sister just bought a condo there less than a month ago! Hopefully all will be okay there.

Travel safe, you just never know what you will run in to.

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Re: Bird locked up?

Post by mrkleen09 on Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:36 pm

Shamrock1000 wrote:

Yeah, I waited until I had more info, and it prevented me from taking an abhorrent position that equates a woman suffering violent abuse with the price that someone pays for committing that very same abuse. It is usually a safe bet to assume woman-beating is wrong, regardless of the circumstances or details. No regrets here.

Abhorrent position? You mean this one?

mrkleen09 wrote:
RosalieTCeltics wrote:  My thoughts are with them both as two lives have been derailed here

100%.  Feeling bad for Jabari - in no way means you cant also feel bad for his girlfriend.  

Monday morning quarterback is the easiest position on the field - trying to call out posts that were left BEFORE the story was out is a bullshit way to argue a point. From the beginning, all I said was - it was a sad situation for both of them. No regrets here either.
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Re: Bird locked up?

Post by worcester on Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:53 am

"if your partner has strangled you in the past, your risk of being killed by them is 10 times higher."

a pretty serious situation...lucky she is still alive...lucky they are not married with children...lucky he is such a public figure subject to massive scrutiny...many women out of the public eye would be in ABSOLUTE RISK of another attack. I doubt Jabari gets within 5 miles of her now. She's quite a good person to have attended to him during his seizure.
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Re: Bird locked up?

Post by dboss on Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:31 pm

I think the one Celtics that could be most impacted by the Jabari Bird situation is Jaylen Brown.

This incident unfortunately will remain in the news for a while. In the meantime I hope that the Celtics organization can focus on the upcoming season.

I hope that the victim will be okay and I hope that Jabari will get the help that he needs. He may never play again in the NBA so his career is likely over.

Very sad and unexpected.
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Re: Bird locked up?

Post by dboss on Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:09 pm

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24723366/celtics-jabari-bird-had-sought-mental-health-treatment

article indicates Bird was dealing with emotional issues before the incident and Celtics were aware of it
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Re: Bird locked up?

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