Do the Celtics have a Better Future then the Warriors?

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Do the Celtics have a Better Future then the Warriors?

Post by bobheckler on Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:36 am

http://bostonsportsextra.com/boston-celtics/2018/09/celtics-better-future-warriors




Do the Celtics have a Better Future then the Warriors?




Posted by @lwosjohnv | Sep 13, 2018 | Celtics, NBA | 0



Do the Celtics have a Better Future then the Warriors?

The Boston Celtics are a very young team looking up and only scratching the surface of their potential. With young rising stars like Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Marcus Smart and Terry Rozier on the roster locked up long term, one can only wonder how far this team can go in the future.

Right now, Boston seems to have the perfect balance of depth of new and experienced on the team. Still led by stars like Kyrie Irving and Gordon Hayward, Boston is expected to appear in the NBA Finals this season. Anything less is a disappointment.

If this team reaches the Finals, they should face off against the Golden State Warriors, a squad who has simply dominated the NBA landscape the last five years. With a plethora of All-Stars on their team, they have been nearly unstoppable, especially so since the addition of Kevin Durant.

However, the question begs to be asked, let alone answered. Who has the brighter future? Boston or Golden State?

To properly answer the question, we must analyze the structures of each teams future. Each team has positives and negatives to assess to the situation.


Boston’s Young, Star Talent


Boston is loaded with young, star talent. As mentioned before, the best young players on the squad are Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Marcus Smart, and Terry Rozier. Certainly, don’t forget about rookie Robert Williams III or Semi Ojeleye. Both of those players are extremely talented but probably won’t see the court too much next year.

Marcus Smart just signed a four-year deal this past off-season, locking him up through the 2021-22 season. Terry Rozier will probably be the team’s next target, as his contract expires next season. Brown is good for the next two seasons, Tatum for the next three. Undoubtedly, Boston will sign the two of them to mega deals when their contracts expire.

The Celtics really sit in a good place, firmly in the driver’s seat, with the structure of their roster. Gordon Hayward, one of head coach Brad Stevens former college players, is locked into his deal through the 2020-21 season, providing the team with much-needed leadership and experience. Although Kyrie Irving will probably leave after this season or be traded through the season, Boston has the depth to deal with his loss.


Golden State, however, is running out


Golden State used to rely on young talent to play well. The group of Stephen Curry, Klay Thompson and Draymond Green won them a Finals series against LeBron James and the full force of the Cleveland Cavaliers the first go around by themselves. However, with the addition of Kevin Durant and then signing Curry to a mega-deal, Golden State now finds themselves in a bind for money.

Golden State has Draymond Green signed through for the next two years, but next year Klay Thompson will be a free agent. Durant may not return for less money for a third straight year. New All-Star addition Boogie Cousins may not stick around either after next year.

This would potentially leave Golden State with Steph and Draymond, and not too much young talent. Two young players have shown potential, those guys being Jordan Bell and Kevon Looney. Neither player is quite the caliber of a Jaylen Brown prospect, but talented nonetheless. Jacob Evans was added this year in the draft and might turn into a fine young player. Regardless, Golden State could lose a lot of depth next year, especially if things don’t work out well for the team this season.


Next season could be a drastically different game


If Klay and Boogie Cousins were to walk next year, here is what the starting lineups could end up looking like next year:

Golden State:
PG Steph Curry
SG Kevon Looney
SF Kevin Durant
PF Draymond Green
C Jordan Bell
6th Damien Jones

Boston:
PG Marcus Smart
SG Jaylen Brown
SF Gordon Hayward
PF Jayson Tatum
C Al Horford
6th Robert Williams

Let’s just ask the question. Which team are you taking? For the record, I would indeed be taking Boston in this lineup. It has more big-play potential from every corner, while Golden State is relying on its stars to get through the game.

In summary, I think it’s very clear who has the better, brighter future. The Celtics. It’s a runaway conclusion. The era of Golden State dominating the NBA week in and week out is almost to a close. The better news? The Celtics are in a position to capitalize.



bob



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Re: Do the Celtics have a Better Future then the Warriors?

Post by swish on Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:32 am

It's quite fashionable to look to the future and the promise of anticipated glory - but beware as there could be some unexpected bumps in the road - like for example, the fact that the 76ers should be in a poaition to add 2 stars ( via free agency ) next year and perhaps replace the Warriors as the Celtics main competition.

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Re: Do the Celtics have a Better Future then the Warriors?

Post by dboss on Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:43 pm

Since this article is about the future of the Celtics vs the Warriors I'll  stick to that.  Maybe a thread should be started about the Sixers/Celtics in terms of their futures.

The Celtics clearly have a brighter future than the Warriors barring injuries that are catastrophic.  

Every star player on the Warriors is playing in their prime.  They have no young studs nor the draft assets to replenish their roster.

The Celtics on the other hand have just 2 players in their prime and one just at the beginning of his prime.  For the sake of argument IMO a player enter his prime in his mid twenties and will be playing his best over the next 7 years or so.  Sometimes some freak of nature defies the averages and is performing at a high level well into their mid to late 30's  (Jabbar - at age 38 was averaging 23.4 PPG)

Whatever your take is on this, the fact is that Boston has more young talent on their team than does GS and they have more draft assets to add more young talent.

Few teams in the NBA have experienced winning over an extending period of time on a championship level.  That is because players age and as a team ages their ability to keep winning is diminished.

GS has an opportunity to win another title this upcoming season because they are still young enough to do that.  I believe that Boston has an excellent opportunity to take them out because top to bottom Boston has more pure  young talent.  

Take a look at their 25 and under roster that includes (Bell, Cook, Derrickson, Evans, House, Jones, Lee and McCaw)  No top 100 players in that group.

The Celtics future looks a lot brighter to me!


Last edited by dboss on Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Do the Celtics have a Better Future then the Warriors?

Post by mrkleen09 on Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:37 pm

bobheckler wrote:

Do the Celtics have a Better Future then the Warriors?
.

Yes.
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Re: Do the Celtics have a Better Future then the Warriors?

Post by cowens/oldschool on Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:25 am

mrkleen09 wrote:
bobheckler wrote:

Do the Celtics have a Better Future then the Warriors?
.

Yes.  


+1
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Re: Do the Celtics have a Better Future then the Warriors?

Post by kdp59 on Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:51 am

a couple things I found interesting in the article.

1) the writers implies that Irving will be gone by next season. There are lots of rumors about the Irving to NY things as a FA as we know. Durant has also been talked about as being a target for the Knicks and their FA money next season.

2) the writer implies Rozier is signed long term, which we know is not true. While we control him next off season as a RFA he is not signed long term at all. OF course if Irving does leave, he likely will be signed to a new deal.

3) there is no talk at all about the coning draft, where Danny is likely to add an additional top 5 pick to the team. THAT player will probably be more help in defending our championships than Rob Williams in future years, IMO.
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Re: Do the Celtics have a Better Future then the Warriors?

Post by dboss on Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:24 pm

kdp59 wrote:a couple things I found interesting in the article.

1) the writers implies that Irving will be gone by next season. There are lots of rumors about the Irving to NY things as a FA as we know. Durant has also been talked about as being a target for the Knicks and their FA money next season.

2) the writer implies Rozier is signed long term, which we know is not true. While we control him next off season as a RFA he is not signed long term at all. OF course if Irving does leave, he likely will be signed to a new deal.

3) there is no talk at all about the coning draft, where Danny is likely to add an additional top 5 pick to the team. THAT player will probably be more help in defending our championships than Rob Williams in future years, IMO.

The writer mentioned Irving at the beginning of the article and then forgot to mention him later.  He did not imply anything.  

The write did not imply that Rozier is signed long term only that he is their next target (to be resigned)

As you mentioned he did not address draft assets and really only speaks to Next year.  That is part of the future but the Celtics future and that of GS continues forward.
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Re: Do the Celtics have a Better Future then the Warriors?

Post by kdp59 on Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:54 am

from the article above:

Although Kyrie Irving will probably leave after this season or be traded through the season, Boston has the depth to deal with his loss.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

you are right they did note earlier that Rozier needs to be re-signed though, I missed that on first read.
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Re: Do the Celtics have a Better Future then the Warriors?

Post by dboss on Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:05 pm

kdp59

I did miss that "Although Kyrie Irving will probably leave after this season or be traded through the season, Boston has the depth to deal with his loss"

I guess I am allergic to bullshit!

I do not see how the author can state that Kyrie will probably leave after the season or be traded.



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Re: Do the Celtics have a Better Future then the Warriors?

Post by kdp59 on Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:23 pm

dboss wrote:kdp59

I did miss that "Although Kyrie Irving will probably leave after this season or be traded through the season, Boston has the depth to deal with his loss"

I guess I am allergic to bullshit!

I do not see how the author can state that Kyrie will probably leave after the season or be traded.





haha

watch that allergy
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Re: Do the Celtics have a Better Future then the Warriors?

Post by swish on Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:59 pm

There was a time (prior to free agency in 1988) when teams relied solely on the draft and trades to change the makeup of a team. Then came free agency and a new dynamic way to alter the future of a team. Over the last 19 years free agency has played a major role in the winner of the NBA  championship - as a result - in 8 of those 19 years the champ has been blessed by the addition of an all nba player, while in an other 7 years the winner has added an all nba player by trade. That's 15 0f the last 19 years that the winner has benifited by adding, by trade or  through free agency, an ALL NBA player. It might be a little more prudent to see what changes might take place on an annual basis - before going out on a limb with long range predictions.

 swish


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Re: Do the Celtics have a Better Future then the Warriors?

Post by jrleftfoot on Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:27 pm

Isn't this a place for Celtics fans, and BB fans in general, to discuss, ruminate, and engage in conjecture? Why prudence? Nothing happens to the limb sitter if it falls, so far as I  can see. I say, predict away. No harm , no foul. I'm predicting a glorious future for the Celts and won't be the least bit embarrassed if they let me down. Jimmy Butler can't carry a team. Neither can Hayward .That's not anything to be ashamed of. They are both major pieces on a good team. That team aint the Knickers.
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Re: Do the Celtics have a Better Future then the Warriors?

Post by swish on Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:52 pm

jrleftfoot wrote:Isn't this a place for Celtics fans, and BB fans in general, to discuss, ruminate, and engage in conjecture? Why prudence? Nothing happens to the limb sitter if it falls, so far as I  can see. I say, predict away. No harm , no foul. I'm predicting a glorious future for the Celts and won't be the least bit embarrassed if they let me down. Jimmy Butler can't carry a team. Neither can Hayward .That's not anything to be ashamed of. They are both major pieces on a good team. That team aint the Knickers.

Absolutely nothing wrong with expressing ones opinion. While the Knicks are not a good team now - who's to say how good they might be if they were to land a couple all nba players next year - like the Celts did in 2007-08 following a horrible record in 2006-07 ?

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Re: Do the Celtics have a Better Future then the Warriors?

Post by kdp59 on Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:42 am

swish wrote:
jrleftfoot wrote:Isn't this a place for Celtics fans, and BB fans in general, to discuss, ruminate, and engage in conjecture? Why prudence? Nothing happens to the limb sitter if it falls, so far as I  can see. I say, predict away. No harm , no foul. I'm predicting a glorious future for the Celts and won't be the least bit embarrassed if they let me down. Jimmy Butler can't carry a team. Neither can Hayward .That's not anything to be ashamed of. They are both major pieces on a good team. That team aint the Knickers.

Absolutely nothing wrong with expressing ones opinion.  While the Knicks are not a good team now - who's to say how good they might be if they were to land a couple all nba players next year - like the Celts did in 2007-08 following a horrible record in 2006-07 ?

 swish

I think you are spot on and I would add if the Knicks could trade for Butler this year and sign Irving or Durant (who are both rumored to be interested in NY), they ARE players then.

Durant or Irving
Butler
a healthy Porzingis

will compete at a high level.

they still won't beat out the Celtics, but they will will compete with the 67ers, who will keep leaving their fans wanting more year after year, IMO.

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Re: Do the Celtics have a Better Future then the Warriors?

Post by dboss on Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:00 pm

I think Swish makes a valid point when it come to predicting the future which no of us can do but it is still a fun exercise.

And a team can be transformed over night with one or two high profile acquisitions.

However building a championship team that is sustainable require the draft, free agency and trades. Trades tend to erode draft assets.

When I look at the entire picture Boston has put together a team in a way that is really quite similar to the way GS did but Boston has a younger collection of developing star players which gives them a brighter future. They have made trades along the way, signed high profile free agents and drafted really well and they have maintained a stock pile of draft assets.

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Re: Do the Celtics have a Better Future then the Warriors?

Post by swish on Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:47 pm

There are many reasons why players choose to change teams - and who knows which players will opt to change teams next June - or even now (Butler's trade demand). Even a team like our Celtic's, with all it's youthful talent, will next summer be challenged as the result of the potential loss of super talent to free agency (Horford and Irving). The Warriors will also be facing the possible loss of 2 key elite players next summer ( Durant and Thompson) while both the Lakers and 76ers will be in a position to stengthen their rosters through free agency. That's not the way it was prior to 1988 - when the drafting team, if they chose to, had ownership for life.

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Re: Do the Celtics have a Better Future then the Warriors?

Post by dboss on Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:36 pm

swish wrote:There are many reasons why players choose to change teams - and who knows which players will opt to change teams next June - or even now (Butler's trade demand). Even a team like our Celtic's, with all it's youthful talent, will next summer be challenged as the result of the potential loss of super talent to free agency (Horford and Irving). The Warriors will also be facing the possible loss of 2 key elite players next summer ( Durant and Thompson) while both the Lakers and 76ers will be in a position to stengthen their rosters through free agency. That's not the way it was prior to 1988 - when the drafting team, if they chose to, had ownership for life.

 swish

Swish you bring up a lot of unknowns that could impact the future of both Boston and Golden State. I agree with much of your premise here but also have an alternative narrative.

When you speak of super talent I do not see Horford as a super talent. Kyrie absolutely. It is probably 100% likely that Kyrie will opt out of his $21 million contract but Al is a different story. He has a $30 million option on the table next year. He is not getting $30 million next year from anybody but the Celtics. He could maybe opt out and resign with Boston (3 years at $20 million for example) or simply opt in to his biggest pay day ever and then become a FA in the summer of 2020. I do not think Al can get a better deal than the one he could get with Boston and I do not think any team with CAP space would be targeting him during free agency. I am not throwing shade on Al but I think he is on the perfect team given his skill level and I think he knows that.

But suppose Kyrie leaves and Al opts out to become a FA and Boston losses both of them.

Boston would still be able to keep Rozier and Boston would still be in a position to draft well next summer. They would still have Hayward, Brown, Tatum, Smart and Rozier. Baynes would still be on the team and maybe the kid Williams becomes our version of Capela. You also would free up enough money to sign a high profile free agent or make a trade for one given the assets in the bank

If Golden State losses either Durant or Thompson they are finished. If they lose either one they will come back to the pack and they do not have draft assets to replenish the team.

Based on these factors I think Boston has the better future.

Once again, this thread is about GS and Boston and no other team. I think it would be interesting to have a Boston/Philly discussion or a Boston/LA discussion.
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Re: Do the Celtics have a Better Future then the Warriors?

Post by jrleftfoot on Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:19 pm

if wishes were horses---- wake me up when the Knicks become a good team. wake Dolan up first.
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Re: Do the Celtics have a Better Future then the Warriors?

Post by kdp59 on Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:46 am

jrleftfoot wrote:if wishes were horses---- wake me up when the Knicks become a good team. wake Dolan up first.



I believe that is the exact feeling of most Knick fans too......LOL.
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Re: Do the Celtics have a Better Future then the Warriors?

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