Do The Celtics have a brighter future than the Sixers

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Do The Celtics have a brighter future than the Sixers

Post by dboss on Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:31 pm

Figured I would start this thread since the Sixers have been mentioned several times as a team that should be competitive right into the future.

So who has a brighter future Philly or Boston?  This is a good question because Philly  has built a very competitive team and will have the CAP space next year to add two high profile FA.  Having the CAP space to add 2 star players does not guarantee success.  The key is addressing their needs.  After Boston squashed them in the playoffs  without Irving and Hayward their coach could not stop talking about the Celtics depth at the wing and his team's inability to match up.

Philly needs to upgrade 2, 3 and 4.  But let's surmise they can only upgrade 2 spots.  A Klay Thompson would be a great addition at the 2 and Leonard would be an excellent addition at 3.  Kevin Durant is the ultimate stretch 4.  Kris Middleton would be an option at 3 as would Harrison Barnes but now we are not taking elite.

The chance that Philly will be able to get a top FA at any of their positions of needs has a lower probability then Boston being able to retain their top FA's.

If Leonard does not resign with the Raptors he is heading West young man where both LA teams are positioned to sign him.  LAL would be the favorite.   Durant has accepted a series of one year deals so that he can get paid.  Would he leave GS after having won 2 rings?  I doubt it.  That  leaves Klay Thompson.  As long as GS is willing to shell out big dollars he ain't going nowhere and if he left maybe he goes to LAL or LAC and stays out west.  

The point of this prognostication is to highlight how expansive speculation can be.  Having CAP space to get better is critical but being able to address a teams' needs is even more problematic.

If you are one of the top free agents do you want to go to Philly if you can still get paid elsewhere?  

Similar to Boston, Philly also has a stockpile of future 1st round picks.

I think Boston has a brighter future than Philly as long as ownership is willing to spend $$$$ and as long as Brad Stevens remains.

I have seen several lists of the top 2019 Free Agents.  Here is a link to one of them.

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2018/7/30/17616436/nba-free-agency-2019-list-kevin-durant-kyrie-irving
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Re: Do The Celtics have a brighter future than the Sixers

Post by swish on Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:51 pm

dboss wrote:Figured I would start this thread since the Sixers have been mentioned several times as a team that should be competitive right into the future.

So who has a brighter future Philly or Boston?  This is a good question because Philly  has built a very competitive team and will have the CAP space next year to add two high profile FA.  Having the CAP space to add 2 star players does not guarantee success.  The key is addressing their needs.  After Boston squashed them in the playoffs  without Irving and Hayward their coach could not stop talking about the Celtics depth at the wing and his team's inability to match up.

Philly needs to upgrade 2, 3 and 4.  But let's surmise they can only upgrade 2 spots.  A Klay Thompson would be a great addition at the 2 and Leonard would be an excellent addition at 3.  Kevin Durant is the ultimate stretch 4.  Kris Middleton would be an option at 3 as would Harrison Barnes but now we are not taking elite.

The chance that Philly will be able to get a top FA at any of their positions of needs has a lower probability then Boston being able to retain their top FA's.

If Leonard does not resign with the Raptors he is heading West young man where both LA teams are positioned to sign him.  LAL would be the favorite.   Durant has accepted a series of one year deals so that he can get paid.  Would he leave GS after having won 2 rings?  I doubt it.  That  leaves Klay Thompson.  As long as GS is willing to shell out big dollars he ain't going nowhere and if he left maybe he goes to LAL or LAC and stays out west.  

The point of this prognostication is to highlight how expansive speculation can be.  Having CAP space to get better is critical but being able to address a teams' needs is even more problematic.

If you are one of the top free agents do you want to go to Philly if you can still get paid elsewhere?  

Similar to Boston, Philly also has a stockpile of future 1st round picks.

I think Boston has a brighter future than Philly as long as ownership is willing to spend $$$$ and as long as Brad Stevens remains.

I have seen several lists of the top 2019 Free Agents.  Here is a link to one of them.

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2018/7/30/17616436/nba-free-agency-2019-list-kevin-durant-kyrie-irving

dboss

 
Excellent summation - perhaps your 100% right. I'm ok at understanding the past but I pass at predicting who the winner will be each year - especially when there is so much mind reading involved in predicting the moves of what appears to be  an excellent class of unrestricted free agents next year. Generally speaking there is only a handfull of teams each year that figure in the hunt for a ring - and after the smoke has settled following the June free agency period, I'll hazzard a guess as to who I think will be the CONTENDERS.
Thats about as daring as I choose to be.

 swish

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Re: Do The Celtics have a brighter future than the Sixers

Post by dboss on Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:08 pm

Swish, as you know, Sam used to always say wait until April
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Re: Do The Celtics have a brighter future than the Sixers

Post by dboss on Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:10 pm

Also never close to 100% right
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Re: Do The Celtics have a brighter future than the Sixers

Post by Celticspride on Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:10 pm

They are going to fun games to watch again.
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Re: Do The Celtics have a brighter future than the Sixers

Post by swish on Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:19 pm

Predicting the future in the sports world is not an exact science.

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Re: Do The Celtics have a brighter future than the Sixers

Post by bobheckler on Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:46 pm

Adam Himmelsbach
Adam Himmelsbach @AdamHimmelsbach
1 hour ago
Gordon Hayward on his takeaway from the Celtics' recent 5-on-5 scrimmages: "You just realize how much talent that we have, how many guys that can do so many different things."


bob


.
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Re: Do The Celtics have a brighter future than the Sixers

Post by dboss on Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:01 pm

bobheckler wrote:Adam Himmelsbach
Adam Himmelsbach @AdamHimmelsbach
1 hour ago
Gordon Hayward on his takeaway from the Celtics' recent 5-on-5 scrimmages: "You just realize how much talent that we have, how many guys that can do so many different things."


bob


.

Kyrie has made similar comments.

Gordon's comments acknowledges that Boston is not stacked with a roster of one trick ponies.

I have to remind myself that although this is year two with this group together it is year one for Gordon.

Expecting improvement is based on a lot of things but the #1 thing is that Brad Stevens enters year 2 with this group + Hayward.
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Re: Do The Celtics have a brighter future than the Sixers

Post by cowens/oldschool on Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:57 am

Can somebody explain to me how Robert Covington made first team all NBA Defensive team?
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Re: Do The Celtics have a brighter future than the Sixers

Post by swish on Sun Sep 23, 2018 1:56 am

cowens/oldschool wrote:Can somebody explain to me how Robert Covington made first team all NBA Defensive team?

oldschool

Below is the committe's explanation.

2017-18 NBA All-Defensive First Team

"Robert Covington, 76ers: The former NBA G League Rookie of the Year and All-Star Game MVP led the NBA in deflections and was tops in defensive win shares among players who appeared in at least 70 percent of their teams’ games. The 76ers’ defensive rating, which ranked third in the NBA, was 99.0 when Covington was on the court and 107.4 when he was off the court – a difference of 8.4 points per 100 possessions."

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Re: Do The Celtics have a brighter future than the Sixers

Post by dboss on Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:44 pm

swish wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:Can somebody explain to me how Robert Covington made first team all NBA Defensive team?

  oldschool

  Below is the committe's explanation.

   2017-18 NBA All-Defensive First Team

"Robert Covington, 76ers: The former NBA G League Rookie of the Year and All-Star Game MVP led the NBA in deflections and was tops in defensive win shares among players who appeared in at least 70 percent of their teams’ games.  The 76ers’ defensive rating, which ranked third in the NBA, was 99.0 when Covington was on the court and 107.4 when he was off the court – a difference of 8.4 points per 100 possessions."

  swish

This is one reason why i do not put a lot of stock in these so-called rankings.

During the playoffs our rookie lit his ass up.
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Re: Do The Celtics have a brighter future than the Sixers

Post by swish on Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:10 pm

dboss wrote:
swish wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:Can somebody explain to me how Robert Covington made first team all NBA Defensive team?

  oldschool

  Below is the committe's explanation.

   2017-18 NBA All-Defensive First Team

"Robert Covington, 76ers: The former NBA G League Rookie of the Year and All-Star Game MVP led the NBA in deflections and was tops in defensive win shares among players who appeared in at least 70 percent of their teams’ games.  The 76ers’ defensive rating, which ranked third in the NBA, was 99.0 when Covington was on the court and 107.4 when he was off the court – a difference of 8.4 points per 100 possessions."

  swish

This is one reason why i do not put a lot of stock in these so-called rankings.

During the playoffs our rookie lit his ass up.

dboss

Lack of the availability of high volume stats to evaluate for defensive skills are considerably fewer than offensive stats - making it probably more of an eyeball or league perception opinion. However - new high tech camera exposure is starting to better isolate the play on the defensive end of the court. Things are looking up in this area.

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Re: Do The Celtics have a brighter future than the Sixers

Post by cowens/oldschool on Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:39 pm

While I can’t say I follow the Sixers a lot, I’ve never noticed him as an impactful defender, decent to good, but best defensive wing....??? come on I’d take either of the 2 J’s defense over Covington’s. Fock the stats.
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Re: Do The Celtics have a brighter future than the Sixers

Post by swish on Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:50 pm

cowens/oldschool wrote:While I can’t say I follow the Sixers a lot, I’ve never noticed him as an impactful defender, decent to good, but best defensive wing....??? come on I’d take either of the 2 J’s defense over Covington’s. Fock the stats.

This forum is all about opinions - Yours is a vote for the 2 J's. I'm neutral - I don't have a clue.

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Re: Do The Celtics have a brighter future than the Sixers

Post by dboss on Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:12 pm

Interesting that the Sixers coach pointed to the wing position as being the biggest issue with his team. Covington is a wing but I guess he just played well below his offensive and defensive numbers during the playoffs.

I was really surprised that he got the high ranking based on watching him play. Marcus cannot even make 2nd team yet everybody knows he is a defensive stopper.

Sometimes looking at so-called advanced stats as a method to rank a player gets it all wrong. Using Smart as an example, he is special. He brings an aura to the game. A level of intensity and invincibility that cannot be actually measured statistically. Someone mentioned in another post that he has IT. I bet James harden knows what IT is.

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Re: Do The Celtics have a brighter future than the Sixers

Post by swish on Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:48 pm

dboss wrote:Interesting that the Sixers coach pointed to the wing position as being the biggest issue with his team.  Covington is a wing but I guess he just played well below his offensive and defensive numbers during the playoffs.

I was really surprised that he got the high ranking based on watching him play.  Marcus cannot even make 2nd team yet everybody knows he is a defensive stopper.

Sometimes looking at so-called advanced stats as a method to rank a player gets it all wrong.  Using Smart as an example, he is special.  He brings an aura to the game.  A level of intensity and invincibility that cannot be actually measured statistically.  Someone mentioned in another post that he has IT.  I bet James harden knows what IT is.


Sure there are loop holes in advanced stats - loop holes in other methods of selection as well, including the eyeball test which often times lens itself to home town bias - even a consensus of opinion is subject to indivdual debate. That's why this forum exists. It seems that we all have our own way of formulating an opinion. It makes for interesting debate.

swish


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Re: Do The Celtics have a brighter future than the Sixers

Post by dboss on Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:53 pm

swish wrote:
dboss wrote:Interesting that the Sixers coach pointed to the wing position as being the biggest issue with his team.  Covington is a wing but I guess he just played well below his offensive and defensive numbers during the playoffs.

I was really surprised that he got the high ranking based on watching him play.  Marcus cannot even make 2nd team yet everybody knows he is a defensive stopper.

Sometimes looking at so-called advanced stats as a method to rank a player gets it all wrong.  Using Smart as an example, he is special.  He brings an aura to the game.  A level of intensity and invincibility that cannot be actually measured statistically.  Someone mentioned in another post that he has IT.  I bet James harden knows what IT is.


 Sure there are loop holes in advanced stats - loop holes in other methods of selection as well, including the eyeball test which often times lens itself to home town bias - even a consensus of opinion is subject to indivdual debate. That's why this forum exists. It seems that we all have our own way of formulating an opinion. It makes for interesting debate.

  swish


Swish you are probably the #1 stat guy here.

Why do you think Smart has yet to make an All Defensive team. How strongly do you believe in the stat line? Is it just one aspect of your evaluations.

Do you think Covington is a 1st teamer on defense at the wing? Just the eye test.

No argument here I was just wondering how stats may or maynot influence your take. I look at stats quite a bit myself.


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Re: Do The Celtics have a brighter future than the Sixers

Post by swish on Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:52 pm

dboss wrote:
swish wrote:
dboss wrote:Interesting that the Sixers coach pointed to the wing position as being the biggest issue with his team.  Covington is a wing but I guess he just played well below his offensive and defensive numbers during the playoffs.

I was really surprised that he got the high ranking based on watching him play.  Marcus cannot even make 2nd team yet everybody knows he is a defensive stopper.

Sometimes looking at so-called advanced stats as a method to rank a player gets it all wrong.  Using Smart as an example, he is special.  He brings an aura to the game.  A level of intensity and invincibility that cannot be actually measured statistically.  Someone mentioned in another post that he has IT.  I bet James harden knows what IT is.


 Sure there are loop holes in advanced stats - loop holes in other methods of selection as well, including the eyeball test which often times lens itself to home town bias - even a consensus of opinion is subject to indivdual debate. That's why this forum exists. It seems that we all have our own way of formulating an opinion. It makes for interesting debate.

  swish




Swish you are probably the #1 stat guy here.

Why do you think Smart has yet to make an All Defensive team.  How strongly do you believe in the stat line?  Is it just one aspect of your evaluations.

Do you think Covington is a 1st teamer on defense at the wing?  Just the eye test.

No argument here I was just wondering how stats may or maynot influence your take.  I look at stats quite a bit myself.



dboss

The computer has opened a new world for me in the world of sports. I probably spend 8 to 10 hours a day playing with stats - trying to find which stats seem to have mattered the most over the years for the contending teams. The stat research will be cut down with the start of the season - I have league pass so each night will be occupied by about 6 hours of basketball. I must point out that while the Celts are a life time love nba basketball in general keeps me in 7th heaven every night. But gone are the days of analytical viewing - now it's all about the artistry and skill of the sport. This leads me to point out that my appraisal of the individual comparisons between players is pretty much restricted to the general statistical data that is available. Those high honor awards like all star and all league - really catch my eye along with team recent winning percentage.
Now for your questions.
SMART--- on making the all defensive team---- Perhaps he's just not as highly regarded by the rest of the voters as the fans here in Boston. It's not that easy to convert individual defensive skills (other than rebounding and perhaps blocked shots) into a meaningful stat - at least for me it isn't.
COVINGTON---- No opinion - I watched the 76ers many times last year but never isolated on Covington and I don't recall ever being particularly impressed by his play.
STAT LINE INTEREST---- Like most other fans I certainly draw impressions about players - but I like to back up my opinions with facts - I guess that just makes me feel more comfortable when voicing an opinion. But even then there are those times when I realize that I am foolishly trying to split hairs when in reality it's much more reallistic to call it a draw. In any event - stats give me a track to run on.

swish

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