This Timberwolves Drama Just Won't Die

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This Timberwolves Drama Just Won't Die

Post by bobheckler on Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:41 pm

https://www.barstoolsports.com/boston/this-timberwolves-drama-just-wont-die?_branch_match_id=513748417547689558



This Timberwolves Drama Just Won't Die



Greenie
9/21/2018 8:45 AM



(NBC Sports) – Karl Anthony-Towns denied Jimmy Butlersleeping with Towns’ girlfriend caused a rift between the Timberwolves teammates.


But that doesn’t mean the rift is nonexistent.

Towns reportedly won’t sign his rookie-scale extension until Minnesota handles the Butler situation, and the standoff apparently isn’t at all over haggling about contract terms, particularly what would happen if Towns qualifies next season for the super-max.

Darren Wolfson of 1500 ESPN:

“They’re offering him as much money as they can. I’m led to believe that a big reason why he hasn’t signed it is that he – through his agent, Leon Rose – went to the Wolves and said, “Hey, I can’t coexist with Jimmy. Do something about it. So, figure out the Jimmy situation. On top of that – whether it’s right or wrong, this is the way he feels – that it’s been Jimmy and Thibs ganging up on him.”

Towns can sometimes play passively, especially defensively. Two people who tend not to tolerate passive play, especially defensively, are Jimmy Butler and Tom Thibodeau. I’m not sure they’re ganging up on Towns as much as they’re each conveying similar messages individually.

As we know, things aren’t great in Minnesota at the moment. Perhaps everyone is focusing on the Vikings as a coping mechanism, but with the season about to start, this Timberwolves drama is not going anywhere until this whole Jimmy Butler situation is resolved, and by resolved I mean traded. I don’t think it’s a secret that KAT and Butler hate each other, I mean it’s clear these two had problems with each other


and as more and more weeks went by and KAT didn’t sign his rookie extension, something didn’t pass the smell test. Now personally I thought maybe it was the opposite, that he was holding off on signing until the knew Butler would be back. I can understand wanting to know how the team is going to look before committing when you’re the franchise guy. But to see that it’s actually a situation where KAT won’t sign until Butler is gone, well that changes things a little bit. Now if your MIN, you have to trade him even if you can only get 20 cents on the dollar. You do not fuck with the happiness of Karl Anthony-Towns. I know Thibs isn’t the best GM on the planet, but not even HE can be that stupid. That’s why just like I said yesterday, if I’m the owner I’m asking KAT if he wants both Butler and Thibs gone. It’s more than likely they’ll stink even with Thibs and no Butler, so why not just clean house and let KAT call all the shots? Makes you also wonder if he had any impact on the Wiggins extension. Maybe that’s his boy, because if you remember all Wiggins needed to secure that bad was to promise the owner he was going to be better.

News flash: He has not gotten any better in four years.

Look it’s true that KAT has some issues on the court, especially defensively. It’s true he can seem passive, but it’s maybe also true Thibs doesn’t really know how to use him properly. Of course he’s going to take any side with Butler, that’s his dude, and I think that’s the root of this whole problem. Thibs is giving the franchise talent treatment to the wrong dude.

KAT is your future, and all of the sudden the future looks pretty dismal in the Twin Cities. Bad news for KAT is even if he never signs that extension, he’ll be a RFA and you bet your ass MIN will just match whatever offer he gets. So the reality, unfortunately, is he’s stuck in this situation for at least another 4ish years, unless he can convince them to trade him before he gets to UFA. Sucks for the nice people of Minnesota, but for the rest of us this is exactly the type of drama I need to get ready for the regular season.

But seriously, do the right thing Timberwolves. Whatever KAT wants you do and you don’t think twice. Don’t be idiots.



bob


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Re: This Timberwolves Drama Just Won't Die

Post by cowens/oldschool on Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:08 pm

Thibs is not a good coach, and I hate saying that as I loved him as our defensive coordinator in 08. Wiggins has not developed his all around game under Thibs at all, their offense in the playoffs last year was inept, couldn’t even get their best player KAT the ball/shots for a lot of stretches. Brad Stevens would have got so much more out of KAT and Wiggins both ends. Jimmy Butler is not good enough to be even the second best player on a contending team.

Jaylen and Jayson will surpass the peak of Jimmy Butler this year, if not the next one 20, for sure....
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Re: This Timberwolves Drama Just Won't Die

Post by dboss on Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:06 pm

KAT can demand a trade like all the other high profile guys. Teams rarely keep players that have demanded a trade. The notion that he is ultimately stuck there as a RFA is not entirely true.

Thib gets a lot of credit for being some sort of defensive guru and that came from his time in Boston. But great defensive teams have great defensive players. (think KG and Rondo)

Things sound pretty sorted up there in Soto. I would get Butler out of there asap. Wiggins regressed once Jimmy came on the team. Go look at the numbers.

http://www.espn.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/3059319/andrew-wiggins


Wiggins is still only 23 years old.

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Re: This Timberwolves Drama Just Won't Die

Post by Shamrock1000 on Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:35 pm

cowens/oldschool wrote:Thibs is not a good coach, and I hate saying that as I loved him as our defensive coordinator in 08. Wiggins has not developed his all around game under Thibs at all, their offense in the playoffs last year was inept, couldn’t even get their best player KAT the ball/shots for a lot of stretches. Brad Stevens would have got so much more out of KAT and Wiggins both ends. Jimmy Butler is not good enough to be even the second best player on a contending team.

Jaylen and Jayson will surpass the peak of Jimmy Butler this year, if not the next one 20, for sure....

Totally agree, on both not wanting to admit Thibs kind of sucks as a coach, and on acknowledging that he kind of does suck as a head coach.

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Re: This Timberwolves Drama Just Won't Die

Post by dboss on Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:52 pm

Last year the T'wolves gave up more PPG than they did the year before Jimmy got there.

So what happened here?  They did not get better defensively by adding Butler and the sports pundits are putting out false information about KAT.  Jimmy Butler averaged more FGA per game than KAT did even though KAT had a AFG % of 60.  KAT shot 42% from deep.  This is a 7 footer by the way. Rebounding is a defensive stat so I suppose we should include his 12.3 rebounds per game as a big contribution.

KAT played 82 regular season games and Butler played 59.  Remember all the chatter about getting Butler?  Remember the fact that he was injury prone and that was a reason not to trade for him?

Butler is on the team because of Thib.  Thib wanted to change their defensive profile.  Their profile got worse.  KAT by the way is 22 years old so maybe he still has a few years to get better.  

Word is Butler says Wiggins does not care about the game and that he has no passion.

The author incorrectly states that Wiggins has not gotten better in 4 years.  Before Wiggins was drafted they said he was the next Lebron James.  He did not create that hype and he certainly did not have the physical profile of Lebron.  For that reason alone  you cannot compare the two.  But people expected the same thing.  No he is not Lebron but he is a very good basketball player that  is still developing at age 23.

Sota would be wise to take advantage of Butler wanting out.  Trade him because paying him, KAT and Wiggins big dollars is a really bad investment.  If you can get the dumbass Clippers to part with Tobias Harris and a 1st rounder you make that deal and move on
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Re: This Timberwolves Drama Just Won't Die

Post by jrleftfoot on Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:14 pm

dboss wrote:Last year the T'wolves gave up more PPG than they did the year before Jimmy got there.

So what happened here?  They did not get better defensively by adding Butler and the sports pundits are putting out false information about KAT.  Jimmy Butler averaged more FGA per game than KAT did even though KAT had a AFG % of 60.  KAT shot 42% from deep.  This is a 7 footer by the way.  Rebounding is a defensive stat so I suppose we should include his 12.3 rebounds per game as a big contribution.

KAT played 82 regular season games and Butler played 59.  Remember all the chatter about getting Butler?  Remember the fact that he was injury prone and that was a reason not to trade for him?

Butler is on the team because of Thib.  Thib wanted to change their defensive profile.  Their profile got worse.  KAT by the way is 22 years old so maybe he still has a few years to get better.  

Word is Butler says Wiggins does not care about the game and that he has no passion.

The author incorrectly states that Wiggins has not gotten better in 4 years.  Before Wiggins was drafted they said he was the next Lebron James.  He did not create that hype and he certainly did not have the physical profile of Lebron.  For that reason alone  you cannot compare the two.  But people expected the same thing.  No he is not Lebron but he is a very good basketball player that  is still developing at age 23.

Sota would be wise to take advantage of Butler wanting out.  Trade him because paying him, KAT and Wiggins big dollars is a really bad investment.  If you can get the dumbass Clippers to part with Tobias Harris and a 1st rounder you make that deal and move on
+ 1. totally agree. Maybe Butler's playoff disappearance after Rondo's injury is just stuck in my head, though.
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Re: This Timberwolves Drama Just Won't Die

Post by jrleftfoot on Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:21 pm

Irving gave an interview to Jackie MacMullen today in which he made it pretty clear that he prefers staying with the Celtics. He said monetary considerations were the reason he hasn't committed to re-signing. I can't copy and paste, but it is available on Mass Live. He also said he hasn't spoken to Jimmy Butler about anything of consequence since 2016. Chill time, maybe?
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Re: This Timberwolves Drama Just Won't Die

Post by bobheckler on Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:09 am

jrleftfoot wrote:Irving  gave an interview to Jackie MacMullen today in which he made it pretty clear that he prefers staying with the Celtics. He said monetary considerations  were the reason he hasn't committed to re-signing. I can't copy and paste, but it is available on Mass Live. He also said he hasn't spoken to Jimmy Butler about anything of consequence since 2016. Chill time, maybe?


Here you go, Rosalie.  Thanks for spotting it.

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2018/09/boston_celtics_kyrie_irving_free_agency_wh.html



Kyrie Irving on Boston Celtics: 'Who wouldn't be a part of this?'



Updated Sep 21, 6:59 PM;
Posted Sep 21, 6:55 PM



By Tom Westerholm



Rumors have swirled around Kyrie Irving all summer -- does he want to sign in New York next summer? Does he want to play with Jimmy Butler? Does it mean anything that he didn't sign an extension with the Celtics?

In order: Shrug, shrug and no. He was never going to sign the extension, which guaranteed significantly less money than promised by a completely new max contract with the Celtics signed in the summer of 2019. Irving said as much in his lone interview with Boston media this summer. Signing a new deal didn't make sense, and little should be made of his decision to pass.

Of course, much was made of it. Summer storylines are beaten to death every year, and absent any other drama surrounding the Celtics, questions about Irving's desire to be in Boston were a well many went back to over and over (full disclosure: I'm as guilty of it as anyone).


ESPN's Jackie MacMullan went straight to the source.

"Who wouldn't be a part of this?" Irving said to MacMullan in an interview published Friday. "Who wouldn't want to be a part of Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum and Al Horford and Gordon Hayward? People keep saying, 'Why won't he commit to Boston?'

"Well, there are financial implications involved."

There's a lot more in MacMullan's piece, including Irving's thoughts on Jimmy Butler -- the two haven't spoken about a potential destination together since 2016 -- as well as Irving's health (he's feeling really, really good again).

But the most important part of the piece -- the part that will be picked apart and analyzed, and then inevitably revisited at Celtics Media Day on Monday -- is what Irving had to say about Boston at a time when the noise about a potential departure is hitting fever pitch.


The Celtics' situation always felt like the most reasonable for Irving. He can be The Guy on a potential championship team with a long window. The Celtics can offer him a max contract (just not until next summer), with stars and young talent around him. He will be the player relied upon for buckets at the end of the game, and his leadership against the Golden State Warriors will be a valuable asset.

None of that is guaranteed to make him stay -- things could go wrong in a year, and those things could change Irving's calculus. That's just a reality of the NBA.

But the idea that Irving's desire to leave Cleveland meant he would want to leave Boston never made much sense. In Cleveland, he was the clear second fiddle on a team with little chance at upending the Golden State Warriors. In Boston, he's the lead star on a team with the type of starting five necessary to contend.


In all likelihood, these quotes don't change much in the Celtics' calculation. They have been confident in their ability to convince Irving to stay ever since they offered up a lottery pick and two starters from an Eastern Conference finalist to acquire him.

It just makes the most sense for Irving to remain in Boston. A potential super team is already in place around him (no need for the Celtics to cross their fingers in free agency or surrender assets for better talent), and he has a chance to lead them into June.

Irving himself put it most succinctly: Who wouldn't want to be a part of that?


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Re: This Timberwolves Drama Just Won't Die

Post by KyleCleric on Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:16 am

My hope is that if he's traded, it's to the Clippers. Don't need to give a team in the East some hope.

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Re: This Timberwolves Drama Just Won't Die

Post by dboss on Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:46 am

I just want to sit back and enjoy watching this team play basketball.

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Re: This Timberwolves Drama Just Won't Die

Post by RosalieTCeltics on Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:11 pm

Exactly Dboss, I have been saying this for over a month.  This ride is going to be so much fun, I can hardly wait for it all to start. I have been counting the days. Everyone who knows me won't even bring the subject up because I could talk for hours about this team and how much I love it already.

Let's get this show on the road, Monday here we come!!!!!
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Re: This Timberwolves Drama Just Won't Die

Post by kdp59 on Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:01 am

KyleCleric wrote:My hope is that if he's traded, it's to the Clippers. Don't need to give a team in the East some hope.


watch out for the 76-ers in a Butler deal in the next week or so.

they can offer Fultz, Z. Smith (their first this year) and Bayless to make the salary's match and throw in draft picks as needed to get it done. They have their own (or the Kings) pick next year and Miami's pick in 2021 along with their all their other first moving forward.

Philly struck out in getting an elite talent in FA this off-season and I think they will push hard to get something done. They also have the young assets that Minnesota's owner may want back in return.

Butler would join Embiid and Simmons along with Saric, and Wilson Chander (who they added this year) along with Covington, Redick and McConnel for a pretty deep team.

they also move solidly into the second best team in the East.

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Re: This Timberwolves Drama Just Won't Die

Post by swish on Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:29 pm

kdp59 wrote:
KyleCleric wrote:My hope is that if he's traded, it's to the Clippers. Don't need to give a team in the East some hope.


watch out for the 76-ers in a Butler deal in the next week or so.

they can offer Fultz, Z. Smith (their first this year) and Bayless to make the salary's match and throw in draft picks as needed to get it done. They have their own (or the Kings) pick next year and Miami's pick in 2021 along with their all their other first moving forward.

Philly struck out in getting an elite talent in FA this off-season and I think they will push hard to get something done. They also have the young assets that Minnesota's owner may want back in return.

Butler would join Embiid and Simmons along with Saric, and Wilson Chander (who they added this year) along with Covington, Redick and McConnel for a pretty deep team.

they also move solidly into the second best team in the East.


kdp59

Trading for Butler would be a plus for the 76ers this year - but waiting a year to see if they can land a couple free agents without having to give up any players in exchange, is certainly a viable option. Next years unrestricted players (and players with player options) is a bumper crop - and the 76ers will have the cash to be in the hunt for 2 high profile players.

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Re: This Timberwolves Drama Just Won't Die

Post by dboss on Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:36 pm

The Sixers hired a new General Manager, Elton Brand.

Are the Sixers ready to part with last year's #1 pick?  I think we all can agree that Fultz is a strange case indeed but cutting ties already will be a very controversial move

How would Butler fit in with Embid and Simmons?   They both have a stank about themselves.

Do the Sixers or any other team have any concerns about Butler's attitude and how he interacts with young players like he did in Chicago and in Minnesota?

Are the Sixers ready to give him that $190 million contract he expects?  Do the Sixers think that adding Butler puts them closer to the championship or in a better position to attract another highend free agent next year?

Adding Butler would seem to make them a better team but I do not think it guarantees that they would be better than the Raptors.  You know the Raptors that team that Boston struggles to beat head to head that has upgraded their roster by getting Leonard.

The Sixers have CAP space next year and can afford to keep their powder dry.  Butler probably does not want to go there because he will never be the guy there.  

In sum I do not see the Sixers making a run at Butler.  I do not think it would be a good move on their part.
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Re: This Timberwolves Drama Just Won't Die

Post by swish on Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:32 pm

dboss wrote:The Sixers hired a new General Manager, Elton Brand.

Are the Sixers ready to part with last year's #1 pick?  I think we all can agree that Fultz is a strange case indeed but cutting ties already will be a very controversial move

How would Butler fit in with Embid and Simmons?   They both have a stank about themselves.

Do the Sixers or any other team have any concerns about Butler's attitude and how he interacts with young players like he did in Chicago and in Minnesota?

Are the Sixers ready to give him that $190 million contract he expects?  Do the Sixers think that adding Butler puts them closer to the championship or in a better position to attract another highend free agent next year?

Adding Butler would seem to make them a better team but I do not think it guarantees that they would be better than the Raptors.  You know the Raptors that team that Boston struggles to beat head to head that has upgraded their roster by getting Leonard.

The Sixers have CAP space next year and can afford to keep their powder dry.  Butler probably does not want to go there because he will never be the guy there.  

In sum I do not see the Sixers making a run at Butler.  I do not think it would be a good move on their part.

dboss

Trading Fultz after only a year with a sort of mystery type ailment would be opening the door to some quite controversial opinions - especially after the great year that he had in college. I personally would want another year to evaluate his performance - but then - I'm not privy to the wealth of info that the 76ers have at their command. Below are the numbers for his college days.

Totals Game Highs Shooting Per Game
Season Age College         G MP FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST
2016-17 18 WASHINGTON 25 892 209 439 52 126 109 168 33 143 148 40 30 80 63 579 .476 .413 .649 35.7 23.2 5.7 5.9
Career

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Re: This Timberwolves Drama Just Won't Die

Post by cowens/oldschool on Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:32 pm

Are Sixers already shopping Fultz?
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Re: This Timberwolves Drama Just Won't Die

Post by dboss on Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:51 pm

Cow

Not really shopping him. ESPN had an article about the 3 teams he listed as preference as well as several other teams. The Sixers were mentioned and Futlz name was thrown in the hat by the writer.
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Re: This Timberwolves Drama Just Won't Die

Post by kdp59 on Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:40 am

sorry Cowens, that was just my personal speculation of players who COULD be traded to make the deal work for Philly.

rumors have Miami hot on a Butler trade right and perhaps a former Celtic could end up in any deal , IF it gets done.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Heat has been very reluctant this offseason to part with Josh Richardson and Bam Adebayo, and it’s unclear if Miami would be willing to include Richardson in a deal for Butler. (Miami’s preference would be not to include Richardson.) Miami also prefers to keep Kelly Olynyk. But Justise Winslow could be put in play because of questions about whether the Heat will keep him if he enters restricted free agency next summer. – via Miami Herald
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Re: This Timberwolves Drama Just Won't Die

Post by bobheckler on Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:12 am

Report: Heat source says Timberwolves asking for ‘the first born of all our kids’



Dan Feldman
NBC Sports•Oct 8, 2018, 4:30 PM




Timberwolves-Heat Jimmy Butler trade discussions reportedly collapsed over the weekend, Miami placing the blame on Minnesota.

Just how bitter are the Heat?

Barry Jackson of the Miami Herald:

Asked what the Wolves are seeking, a Heat source said: “The first born of all our kids.”

The Wolves are believed to be asking for several of the assets the Heat considers most valuable: Josh Richardson, Bam Adebayo, Goran Dragic, Kelly Olynyk, Justise Winslow and a No. 1 pick.

That’s some rhetoric.

Remember, the Heat are incentivized to paint Minnesota – especially Timberwolves president-coach Tom Thibodeau – as unreasonable. That could get Timberwolves owner Glen Taylor, who’d probably be more agreeable, to step in and run negotiations.

Either the Heat are desperate for that to happen or Minnesota is really getting on their nerves. Maybe both. But discussions have pushed Miami to this extreme position.

The Heat have several players with consensus bad contracts: Tyler Johnson, Dion Waiters, Hassan Whiteside. Including one of them in the deal would only increase the positive assets – like Richardson, Adebayo, Dragic, Olynyk, Winslow and a No. 1 pick – Miami would have to send the Timberwolves.

Butler is extremely valuable. Minnesota should seek a lot for him.



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Re: This Timberwolves Drama Just Won't Die

Post by mrkleen09 on Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:46 am

Jimmy Butler is the epitome of the modern, entitled, spoiled athlete.

He never won a thing in his life, yet he:
Quit on his teammates in Chicago
Quit on his teammates in Minnesota

Locker Room Cancer that i dont want with 100 miles of Boston.
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Re: This Timberwolves Drama Just Won't Die

Post by RosalieTCeltics on Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:59 am

what the heck are they thinking? All of that for a guy who pumps his chest every time he thinks he can get somewhere better than where he is? If I were Miami, I would walk away and find a better deal somewhere else. It will be interesting to see what Riley does. His days as a big wheel are coming close to an end, and he is desperate to pull off a big deal and be a hero again.

Thibs is not a great negotiator, my guess is Taylor steps in.
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Re: This Timberwolves Drama Just Won't Die

Post by dboss on Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:09 pm

From what I read the sticking point is draft picks. A 3rd team needs to get involved to take on some salary and that team wants draft a pick(s)

Overall i am hearing the the Wolves are asking too much for Butler.

If the Heat are smart they will let Minnesota stew on this impasse. They have to trade Butler so they should not expect to get a premium return. Too many coaches think they can also be GM's.
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Re: This Timberwolves Drama Just Won't Die

Post by RosalieTCeltics on Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:52 pm

I thought I heard yesterday that the Clips are negotiating now with Minny
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Re: This Timberwolves Drama Just Won't Die

Post by dboss on Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:26 pm

Rosalie here is an article about the Clippers' interest

https://clipperholics.com/2018/10/08/los-angeles-clippers-rumors-jimmy-butler-still-not-move/
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Re: This Timberwolves Drama Just Won't Die

Post by RosalieTCeltics on Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:24 pm

Thanks dboss. What a mess. How toxic will that locker room be at the start of the season if Butler is still there,
The young guys will just blow him off! He has made it clear he does not like their work ethic. (It is funny, but I have read that about Wiggins during last year) But when they want to they can really play tough and excellent basketball.
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