This and that

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Re: This and that

Post by bobc33 on Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:18 pm

And Larry was 23 years old as a rookie.
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Re: This and that

Post by tardust on Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:29 pm

A little bit old but very interesting.

https://hoopshype.com/2018/04/17/the-nbas-top-20-all-time-earnings-list-is-full-of-surprises-including-whos-no-1-not-lebron/
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Re: This and that

Post by cowens/oldschool on Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:46 am

How incredible was Doncic last night? 11 points in a row at crunch time. Love the lay up off his right hand with defender having left hand covered, he slowed up and flipped it in with the right hand going left...who does that? Lethal step back 3!!!
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Re: This and that

Post by cowens/oldschool on Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:54 am

tardust wrote:He is not Larry yet by any stretch,  but he is hands down best rookie.  Larry completely changed the team to a contender pretty much his first year.  The defense Larry went against was quite a bit more physical than the powder puff defense they play now days.

The game has changed, the defense in the paint was a lot better in the old days, but the perimeter defense is so much better today....
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Re: This and that

Post by cowens/oldschool on Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:54 pm

Raptors coming back down to Earth, have lost 2 in a row and 3 out of 4. Kyle Lowry 4-28 fg in last 4 games and 0-5 tonight.
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Re: This and that

Post by tardust on Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:43 am

They have a road trip that starts with the LA Clippers next I think followed by the Warriors. They could very well drop 2 more games.
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Re: This and that

Post by bobheckler on Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:11 pm

Houston has the worst bench scoring in the league. I don't know why, with Ben Gordon amd Gerald Green, but it is.

They had a 17 point lead on Portland with 6 left and Harden went into ME-ball mode and now it's 5 with 3 left.

No Antoni team can make stops.


bob


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Re: This and that

Post by worcester on Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:17 pm

Kawhi is still hurt. May be out 2 games.
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Re: This and that

Post by cowens/oldschool on Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:29 pm

worcester wrote:Kawhi is still hurt. May be out 2 games.

He has missed more games than Hayward this year, durability has always been a question with him....
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Re: This and that

Post by bobheckler on Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:36 pm

Dragan Bender with 2 points and 1 rebound in 12 minutes, both just below his season average.  Remember when he was touted as "the next Porzingis"?


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Re: This and that

Post by worcester on Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:31 pm

There was such a demand for teams to draft him. Sure glad we did not.
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Re: This and that

Post by cowens/oldschool on Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:53 pm

worcester wrote:There was such a demand for teams to draft him. Sure glad we did not.

I think the Suns GM who used to be our assistant at some management position with Danny lost his job because of that terrible draft, and Josh Jackson another one of his picks, also looks like a bust....
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Re: This and that

Post by worcester on Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:06 am

And people 2 years ago were debating whether we should draft Jayson, Markelle, or Josh.
Sure glad Danny knows something about talent.
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Re: This and that

Post by bobheckler on Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:29 am

worcester wrote:And people 2 years ago were debating whether we should draft Jayson, Markelle, or Josh.
Sure glad Danny knows something about talent.


Just to put a pin on this, Dragan Bender was the #4 pick in the 2016 draft. The #3 pick was Jaylen Brown.


bob



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Re: This and that

Post by bobheckler on Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:47 am

NBA TV

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Congratulations to Gregg Popovich for passing Pat Riley for 4th place on the NBA's all-time coaching wins list!






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Re: This and that

Post by bobheckler on Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:44 am

cowens/oldschool wrote:
worcester wrote:There was such a demand for teams to draft him. Sure glad we did not.

I think the Suns GM who used to be our assistant at some management position with Danny lost his job because of that terrible draft, and Josh Jackson another one of his picks, also looks like a bust....


Cow,

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2810302-phoenix-suns-shouldnt-be-surprised-by-josh-jacksons-struggles?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial



Phoenix Suns Shouldn't Be Surprised by Josh Jackson's Struggles


GRANT HUGHES
DECEMBER 12, 2018




Barry Gossage/Getty Images


Phoenix Suns forward Josh Jackson has been playing better lately, and acknowledging that fact up front should help what comes next feel less like a hit piece and more like a sincere inquiry into, you know, what's up with the No. 4 pick from the 2017 draft.

Jackson—averaging 13.8 points, 5.0 rebounds and 4.5 assists per game to go with 4-of-10 shooting from deep over his last four games—particularly stood out during Monday's overtime loss to the Los Angeles Clippers. He tied his season high with 18 points, hit a pair of triples and showcased the skill set that earned him a spot in the high lottery.


He flashed craft on a drive to his right, wrong-footing Montrezl Harrell for a scoop layup:

https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/1072503674549796866
Lazarus Jackson
@lazchance
No, forreal, I will rescue Josh Jackson:

6:49 AM - Dec 11, 2018


He showed off his two-way gifts with a breakdown drive against Tobias Harris on one end and a high-altitude rejection of Harris on the other:

https://streamable.com/b6x1i

Though Phoenix lost, and though Phoenix, generally, loses more games than anyone else these days, Jackson still offered glimpses of what made (and makes) him an intriguing talent. This, though, was an outlier performance, and Jackson has been objectively one of the worst players in the NBA this season.

Jackson's true shooting and usage percentages are both down from his rookie year (when they were already awful), as are his minutes per game and free-throw rate. His box plus-minus is second-worst in the league among players who've logged at least 500 minutes, and his defensive real plus-minus checks in at No. 72 among 87 qualified small forwards.

Jackson's Stagnant Numbers
......................TS%..............USG%..........PER
2017-18..........48.0..............26.0.............11.8
2018-19..........47.1..............25.5.............9.0
Basketball-Reference.com


To understate it, he's been disappointing. That's different than labeling him a disappointment, though, because that latter tag would put the onus on Jackson. It doesn't belong there. It belongs on the Suns, who took a deeply flawed player at a draft slot where you're supposed to grab a star.

You'd be hard-pressed to find a predraft writeup that didn't highlight Jackson's hitchy jumper. He had loads of plusses—defensive versatility, a guard's handle, vision, athleticism, a 6'8" frame that could accommodate more muscle—but that one glaring minus, the busted shot, was unavoidably conspicuous.



Every team that considered Jackson as a potential draftee had to know the risk of selecting a wing who didn't project as a floor-stretcher.

The Suns decided that critical weakness wasn't enough of a deterrent.

In 104 games as a professional, Jackson has shot 26.4 percent from deep, which has created a negative cascading effect on the rest of his game. Individual defenders sag off him when he has the ball, making drives difficult and encouraging long twos off the dribble. This also stifles Jackson's strength as a playmaker, as one defender giving a fat "I dare you to shoot it" cushion can handle the assignment without help. That leaves everyone else home on shooters, effectively shutting passing windows.

When Jackson doesn't have the ball in the half court, he can safely be ignored.

This was largely the case when Jackson was at Kansas, but his athleticism and a shorter three-point line masked the issue. He shot 37.8 percent from deep in college despite that funky form, and he's shooting 33.3 percent from 16-23 feet this season.

His poor free-throw shooting (56.6 percent in college) was another red flag.

Perhaps the Suns trusted their player development staff. Perhaps they saw some Kawhi Leonard in him. Or Jimmy Butler. Or any number of other improbable-growth stories. Collegians who can't shoot from deep but have promising two-way skills and NBA-ready bodies sometimes work out. Of course, Leonard and Butler went far later in the draft than Jackson did (Leonard was picked 15th, Butler 30th), and both are exceptions to the rule that shooting isn't an easily teachable skill.

Jackson, it seems, just shouldn't have been drafted so high. But the Suns' former braintrust had a history of blowing high-value picks. Deposed general manager Ryan McDonough made four top-five selections in his six seasons running the Suns. The haul: Alex Len, Dragan Bender, Jackson and Deandre Ayton (over Luka Doncic), the last of which might wind up being worst of all.


CHICAGO - MAY 15:  Josh Jackson #20 of the Phoenix Suns and General Manager of the Phoenix Suns, Ryan McDonough pose for a photo after getting the number one pick in the 2018 NBA Draft during the 2018 NBA Draft Lottery at the Palmer House Hotel on May 15,
Jeff Haynes/Getty Images


It should also be noted McDonough wouldn't trade the pick that became Jackson for Kyrie Irving, as ESPN's Jackie MacMullan reported in January. That should give a solid picture of Phoenix's recent resource management.

The Suns also haven't provided Jackson with an opportunity to grow. They've given him three coaches in a little over a year, not to mention switched GMs midstream. It's awfully hard to implement a coherent development plan when those in charge of creating it keep changing.

"I don't think any other player in my class has gone through as much change within their team as I have," Jackson told The Ringer's Paolo Uggetti. "Since the moment I came into the league, it's just been all about changes and adjustments—new coach after my second game of the season, like, c'mon now, really? That doesn't happen."

It does in Phoenix.

Another thing that happens in Phoenix: The organization makes a trade on draft night for Mikal Bridges and signs Trevor Ariza—two wings who play Jackson's position. No team as bad as Phoenix should approach roster construction based on positional need, but when you've got an already distressed asset like Jackson, doesn't it make sense to use what should be another lost season as a growth opportunity?

That Phoenix seemed to think it was a playoff contender stands as another indictment of management's grip on reason.

None of this is to say Jackson is free from blame. Some players really do learn to shoot. Jackson's teammate, T.J. Warren, did it over the summer. Warren shot 28.3 percent from deep over his first four years with the Suns. This season, on dramatically increased volume, he's at 44.4 percent.


Justise Winslow is another fair comparison. The Heat forward shot 27.6 percent from deep in his rookie season, 20.0 percent as a sophomore and then, bang: 38.0 percent last year. In the midst of the best stretch of his career right now, Winslow is all the way up to 39.2 percent in 2018-19.

In light of those success stories, Jackson still has a shot to become a complete player. It might also help if he retooled his shot or if the Suns gave him more time at power forward, a spot he manned occasionally in college and one that could mitigate his shooting weaknesses by pitting him against slower defenders.

For now, this feels like one of those particularly disheartening situations in which the player, who had no control over his draft slot or the makeup of the organization selecting him, is bearing the brunt of the scrutiny and judgment. Jackson shouldn't have gone as high as he did in the draft—not with that shot—and he shouldn't have wound up on the Suns, as his weaknesses have been magnified by his franchise's dysfunction...and lots of losing.


Mike Schmitz
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@Mike_Schmitz
Really don't think we talk about situation enough in regards to Josh Jackson's development. If he were drafted into a winning situation like the Celtics, we might be praising his toughness and explosiveness rather than criticizing his inconsistent shooting and sometimes wild play

693
5:08 PM - Jul 7, 2018


If he delivers on his potential, it'll be in spite of some crummy circumstances.

It's hard to find lessons in the story of Jackson's early career, other than the one we already know: Don't use a high lottery pick on a wing who can't shoot and then be disappointed when said wing's inability to shoot obstructs his path to competent play.

Maybe the broader instructive point has to do with assigning responsibility. Jackson arrived in Phoenix as exactly the player everyone understood him to be. He's still that player, and if that's disappointing to the Suns, it's their fault, not his.



bob


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Re: This and that

Post by kdp59 on Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:05 am

before we all laugh at the Suns for picking Jackson at #4, maybe looking back at that draft will give some perspective.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_NBA_draft

NO one thought Mitchell was going to be the player he has been (So far). PERIOD!

and yes Fultz WAS the consensus pick at #1, lest we all forget.

Mitchell
Tatum
have both been the elites from this draft to date and I am very glad Danny knew what Tatum would be (more likely he didn't and IF Hayward hadn't gone down who knows how much Tatum would be playing right now)

Ball
Markkanen
D. Smith

have been the next best form the first round in that draft to date. but they all get minutes playing for poor teams.

over all to date, this draft has been UNDER whelming all around, IMO...Not just Josh Jackson.

But yeah...I'm glad we don't have the Suns roster!!!
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Re: This and that

Post by cowens/oldschool on Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:30 am

Anytime people get down on Jaylen, they should he thankful we don’t have Fultz, Jackson or Bender. If he gets a jumper a big if, if you check his latest box score, teams can keep sagging off him like they did with Rondo....he could still be a force as he has some slashing/defensive ability.
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Re: This and that

Post by dboss on Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:50 pm

I watched the Raptors/ Clippers game last night. I know the Clippers have surprised a lot of people with their early season showing but from what I could see last night night they are far from being a good team. Their defense is very poor (worst of the top 8 teams in the West)

The Raptors killed them without Leonard. 123-99...Lou Williams was missing for the clips because of a bad hammy.

Rumor has it that the Clippers are going all out to sign both Durant and Leonard.

Their pick is still in play. Ideal finish would be 15th from the bottom.
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Re: This and that

Post by cowens/oldschool on Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:48 am

I don’t think Ball has been good, if Fultz wasn’t going thru so many problems, maybe more media would be calling him out, he’s a had plenty of bad games.
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Re: This and that

Post by worcester on Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:56 am

Unlike our Jayson who shines under pressure...and does more than score.
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Re: This and that

Post by cowens/oldschool on Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:01 am

worcester wrote:Unlike our Jayson who shines under pressure...and does more than score.

Sure is fun to watch him fly down the court for dunks!!
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Re: This and that

Post by worcester on Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:51 am

Indeed!
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Re: This and that

Post by dboss on Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:05 pm

Jonas Valanciunas hurt his thumb last night and will be in a cast for the next 4 weeks. Their BU center is the Moose, Greg Monroe.

I think Toronto has a lot of depth but they lack depth at the 5 and at the 2

Over the season it will be very interesting to see how this deficiency plays out.

Look for them to play Serge in the middle more with Siakam at the 4.
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Re: This and that

Post by dboss on Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:34 pm

Nate McMillan is the best defensive coach in the NBA

Last night the Pacers beat the Bucks 113-97. They double and triple teamed the freak holding him to 4-7 FGA. So the Bucks were forced to shoot a few more jumpers and went 11-43 from deep.

The Bucks take 40 3PFG per game so I guess I should not complain so much about Boston. But I'm sure I will when there is an obvious imbalance.

The Pacers continue to play very well and may be the most underrated team in the EC
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Re: This and that

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