Celtics Are 29th In Scoring

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Celtics Are 29th In Scoring

Post by fierce on Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:23 am

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/team/_/stat/team-comparison-per-game

You guys think the Celts don't have a problem?

They're just 29th in the league in scoring, averaging 102.4 ppg.

Celts usually end up in close games because they go on scoring droughts way too often.
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Re: Celtics Are 29th In Scoring

Post by dbrown4 on Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:38 am

Defense wins championships. The last time high scoring/high shooting/3-ball launching team won the Finals without strong defense was....never. If you will notice in the games to date, the Celtics do throw up threes, but they are calculated and part of the offensive set. They are not at the clip and pace that the rest of the league is launching them I'm just guessing. Otherwise we would have the scoring to match. If they have one that comes up in the movement of the ball and you are wide open, Brad says launch away. We can make them.

What the rest of the league is going to find out shortly is they will be contested more on threes as the season goes on and the numbers aren't going to look that good. TOR shot 9 for 45 vs. MIL the other night. That's 20%. Just the slightest contesting on 3's and you are going to see more numbers like that.

Then these teams are further screwed because they spent the first half of the season cannonballing 3's and now they aren't falling and even worse the bricks are probably leading to fast breaks the other way. Now you are working twice as hard. Now try shooting a 3 after a sprint to stop a fast break. Legs are gone. Please, now, bring those in for jump shot 2's or up against a #1 Defense like, I don't know, the Celtics who have been sitting around waiting for the league to figure it all out...You get the picture. Nothing there either in the half court. Game and Season Over. Brad's looking pretty smart, here. I'll take last place in scoring and 5-2 start and half speed any day.

db
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Re: Celtics Are 29th In Scoring

Post by k_j_88 on Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:48 am

I don't care if we score alot. I care about how many points we give up. Celtics have the best scoring defense in the league, so I'm satisfied.

Kj
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Re: Celtics Are 29th In Scoring

Post by fierce on Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:08 pm

k_j_88 wrote:I don't care if we score alot. I care about how many points we give up.  Celtics have the best scoring defense in the league, so I'm satisfied.

Kj

This is where it gets tricky.

You really think the Celts will be able to hold GSW under 100 points in a 7-game series?
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Re: Celtics Are 29th In Scoring

Post by fierce on Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:13 pm

Tonight's game against the Bucks is a good test for the Celtic defense because the Bucks are averaging 120 ppg and are beating their opponents by an average 15.9 ppg.
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Re: Celtics Are 29th In Scoring

Post by dboss on Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:59 pm

You cannot mention that the Celtics are 29th in the league in scoring and fail to mention that they are #1 in defense.

Most of us have watched all 7 games this year. The offense has struggled. Everyone agrees with that but the more astute mind would not attribute that to a lack of offensive talent.

This is a new team and a new year. It will take some time for this team to develop chemistry. Most fans understand that. Most fans understand that Boston's DNA is built on a commitment to playing good defense. Being the highest scoring team does not make you the best team. Again, most Boston fans understand that.



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Re: Celtics Are 29th In Scoring

Post by swish on Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:59 am

dboss wrote:You cannot mention that the Celtics are 29th in the league in scoring and fail to mention that they are #1 in defense.

Most of us have watched all 7 games this year.  The offense has struggled.  Everyone agrees with that but the more astute mind would not attribute that to a lack of offensive talent.  

This is a new team and a new year.  It will take some time for this team to develop chemistry.  Most fans understand that.  Most fans understand that Boston's DNA is built on a commitment to playing good defense.  Being the highest scoring team does not make you the best team.  Again, most Boston fans understand that.  




And allowing the fewest points does not neccessarily make for the best team. As a matter of fact it's a vitual tie as to whether it's the scoring of points or holding down the opponents scoring that plays the biggest role in a win. Since the 1980-81 season ( 38 years ) the champs have a average scoring ranking of 7.9 - while averaging a 8.1 ranking in points allowed. Margin of victory is a much more reliable tool for determining a teams net scoring ranking.

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Re: Celtics Are 29th In Scoring

Post by bobheckler on Fri Nov 02, 2018 3:43 am

swish wrote:
dboss wrote:You cannot mention that the Celtics are 29th in the league in scoring and fail to mention that they are #1 in defense.

Most of us have watched all 7 games this year.  The offense has struggled.  Everyone agrees with that but the more astute mind would not attribute that to a lack of offensive talent.  

This is a new team and a new year.  It will take some time for this team to develop chemistry.  Most fans understand that.  Most fans understand that Boston's DNA is built on a commitment to playing good defense.  Being the highest scoring team does not make you the best team.  Again, most Boston fans understand that.  




   And allowing the fewest points does not neccessarily make for the best team. As a matter of fact it's a vitual tie as to whether it's the scoring of points or holding down the opponents scoring that plays the biggest role in a win. Since the 1980-81 season ( 38 years ) the champs have a average scoring ranking of 7.9 - while averaging a 8.1 ranking in points allowed. Margin of victory is a much more reliable tool for determining a teams net scoring ranking.

 swish

   


Swish,


I have said MOV is a compelling stat but it must be kept in perspective, especially this early in the season.  It must be tempered by the quality of their opponents at the time they played them.

For example, Sacramento is 5-3.  They scored 146 points last game.  They are in 5th place in the WC and 6th in MOV, just .2 ppg out of 5th place.  But who have they played?

Utah (4-3) - Loss
NOP (4-3) - Loss
OKC (2-4) - Win
Denver (6-1) - Loss
Memphis (4-2) - Win
Washington (1-6) - Win
Miami (3-4) - Win
Orlando (2-5) - Win

Their wins were against cellar dwellers, except for Memphis, but their losses were all against teams with winning records.  Their +3.5 MOV is FAR better than Philly's +.2, but the 5-4 Sixers' losses were against Boston, Milwaukee, Detroit and Toronto.  Tough teams, at least 3 of them the class of the east.  Is Sacramento a better team than Philly?  Record and MOV notwithstanding I'd still say no.  Less than 10 games into an 82 game season I feel the 'eyeball test' is more reliable (Disclaimer:  I have not watched any games this season so far.  This opinion is, however, one I would have even if I had watched games.  We have played too few to lean heavily on stats).  As we approach the midpoint that will change as the stats are based upon more data and the opponents faced, the schedule played, is more broadly based.


bob


.


bob


.
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Re: Celtics Are 29th In Scoring

Post by cowens/oldschool on Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:38 am

Bob good work and good to know, don’t follow Kings, but hope they come back down to their losing ways.
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Re: Celtics Are 29th In Scoring

Post by swish on Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:52 am

bobheckler wrote:
swish wrote:
dboss wrote:You cannot mention that the Celtics are 29th in the league in scoring and fail to mention that they are #1 in defense.

Most of us have watched all 7 games this year.  The offense has struggled.  Everyone agrees with that but the more astute mind would not attribute that to a lack of offensive talent.  

This is a new team and a new year.  It will take some time for this team to develop chemistry.  Most fans understand that.  Most fans understand that Boston's DNA is built on a commitment to playing good defense.  Being the highest scoring team does not make you the best team.  Again, most Boston fans understand that.  




   And allowing the fewest points does not neccessarily make for the best team. As a matter of fact it's a vitual tie as to whether it's the scoring of points or holding down the opponents scoring that plays the biggest role in a win. Since the 1980-81 season ( 38 years ) the champs have a average scoring ranking of 7.9 - while averaging a 8.1 ranking in points allowed. Margin of victory is a much more reliable tool for determining a teams net scoring ranking.

 swish

   


Swish,


I have said MOV is a compelling stat but it must be kept in perspective, especially this early in the season.  It must be tempered by the quality of their opponents at the time they played them.

For example, Sacramento is 5-3.  They scored 146 points last game.  They are in 5th place in the WC and 6th in MOV, just .2 ppg out of 5th place.  But who have they played?

Utah (4-3) - Loss
NOP (4-3) - Loss
OKC (2-4) - Win
Denver (6-1) - Loss
Memphis (4-2) - Win
Washington (1-6) - Win
Miami (3-4) - Win
Orlando (2-5) - Win

Their wins were against cellar dwellers, except for Memphis, but their losses were all against teams with winning records.  Their +3.5 MOV is FAR better than Philly's +.2, but the 5-4 Sixers' losses were against Boston, Milwaukee, Detroit and Toronto.  Tough teams, at least 3 of them the class of the east.  Is Sacramento a better team than Philly?  Record and MOV notwithstanding I'd still say no.  Less than 10 games into an 82 game season I feel the 'eyeball test' is more reliable (Disclaimer:  I have not watched any games this season so far.  This opinion is, however, one I would have even if I had watched games.  We have played too few to lean heavily on stats).  As we approach the midpoint that will change as the stats are based upon more data and the opponents faced, the schedule played, is more broadly based.


bob


.


bob


.

I agree bob - a handfull of games does not for certain represent the outcome of an entire season - and that's why my post a short time ago about MOV was based on 39 years of full
82 game schedules except for the 2 strike shorten seasons.

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Re: Celtics Are 29th In Scoring

Post by sinus007 on Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:32 am

Hi,
With all due respect, but how in the world you can draw any statistical conclusion from a sample size of 6-7? Especially considering it's the beginning of the season.
I don't know...

AK
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Re: Celtics Are 29th In Scoring

Post by mrkleen09 on Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:43 pm

sinus007 wrote:Hi,
With all due respect, but how in the world you can draw any statistical conclusion from a sample size of 6-7? Especially considering it's the beginning of the season.
I don't know...

AK

You cant.
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Re: Celtics Are 29th In Scoring

Post by dboss on Fri Nov 02, 2018 2:50 pm

They are no longer 29th in scoring. They moved up to 27th. There are glimmers of light at the end of the tunnel.
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Re: Celtics Are 29th In Scoring

Post by fierce on Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:56 am

It's not about a statistical conclusion, it's about Celts struggling to score.

Why?

Because they often go on scoring droughts every game.
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Re: Celtics Are 29th In Scoring

Post by Phil Pressey on Sat Nov 03, 2018 9:43 am

The Celtics are trying to build slowly but surely into a team to contend with Golden State. If they wanted to go on tilt, they could have signed Chris Paul to a poison pill contract after consolidating years ago for Cousins.

You want instant oatmeal when the Celtics are thinking of a big feast with sustainability. It's about giving this team a chance. What part of Irving and Hayward are rusty are you missing? They will not play hot potato all year. People will figure out their roles and do their best.

The David Stern star system is cooked and done. Brown and Tatum are still the same guys and developing in real time. Others like Al, Marcus and Marcus, Terry, Gordon, Kyrie, Theis, Baynsies and Semi are hungry. The rabid Boston fan base also supplies them with a lot of energy. Yabs is good in the locker room. Let this sucker brew like fancy coffee.

Anyone can buy a bottle of pasta sauce and make you spaghetti in under ten minutes. These guys are taking their time making the meal from scratch. Golden State is no slouch and this is just the regular season. This is extended practice. It's all about health, stamina and togetherness during the playoffs. Have some patience, Mr. Grasshopper.

Danny will eventually make some decisions. There's no point in assuming anything. Like I don't assume these guys aren't good enough to win #18. Or at least I want to watch this for some games. There's always the trading season and then next year if this fizzles out. I don't think it will.

I look at Houston and that's just outright pitiful. That contract for Chris Paul must be a hoax. This is high stakes Texas Hold 'Em. You can't just go all in on a whim.

That guy on the Red Sox Pedroia was awful with no offense as a rookie. Francona was the only one who believed in him. That Beat guy was about the only one sticking up for Morris last year. It took a long time but he was eventually proven correct as so was Francona.

These guys are slumping on offense and are a bit too unselfish. It is a good problem to have because eventually they will all click. I'd rather have guys sublimating and sacrificing than support overrated egoheads. 2008 worked because Paul, KG and Rondo were completely unselfish and pure Celtics. Boston is unlike any other franchise. Tommy just got Kyrie to lose five pounds. Think about that. I bet even Rozier is concentrating on winning a title and not about his next contract. This is a dream situation. I would not trade Boston's roster and future for the Warriors'. Their party is going to end soon enough. LeBron is already done. Put a fork in him. That reign of terror is over. GS is next to tumble this year or maybe they win one more time. They are cheaters. Durant is the ultimate loser. Draymond Green is not a good person. They are doomed and soon.

Danny broke basketball, imho. We just don't know when it will start paying off with titles. I think it will happen this year.
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