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POST GAME MILWAUKEE BUCKS - HOME

Post by 112288 on Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:07 pm

Celtics Wrap: Boston Hands Bucks First Loss Of Season With Thrilling 117-113 Win

NESN by Adam London on Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 10:38PM

BOSTON — The Milwaukee Bucks were riding high heading into TD Garden on Thursday night, but the Boston Celtics made sure to put a halt to that on their home floor. The Bucks, who entered the contest with a perfect 7-0 record, experienced some déjà vu from last season’s first-round NBA playoff series as Boston outshined Milwaukee in a 117-113 victory. It was a record-breaking night for the C’s, who connected on 24 (!) 3-pointers in the primetime showdown, easily topping the previous franchise high mark of 19. Kyrie Irving knocked down six of those treys within his team-high, 28-point performance, while Marcus Morris logged 15 of his 17 points from beyond the arc. Gordon Hayward and Al Horford also shined with 18 points apiece. Giannis Antetokounmpo (33 points, 11 rebounds) was his usual overpowering self, but not even a stellar performance from the Greek Freak could lead the Bucks to a road win. With the victory, the Celtics improve to 6-2, while the Bucks fall to 7-1. Here’s how it all went down:

STARTING FIVE PG: Kyrie Irving SG: Jayson Tatum SF: Gordon Hayward PF: Semi Ojeleye C: Al Horford Jaylen Brown was not active for the contest due to foot soreness.

3-POINT PARTY The Celtics were not gun-shy from beyond the arc in the early goings, connecting on 5-of-14 3-point attempts en route a 23-16 lead after the first quarter. Horford knocked down a pair of treys to lead all scorers with six points after one, while Hayward wasn’t far behind with five points. The Bucks struggled mightily from all areas on offense in the first, as the visitors shot 20 percent from range and posted a 31 percent overall field goal percentage. No Milwaukee player scored more than three points in the opening frame, including Antetokounmpo, who was limited to just two.

BUCKS PUNCH BACK After the C’s held control throughout the first quarter, the Bucks showed a ton of fight to open the second, opening the quarter on a 13-2 run to take their first lead of the game at the 8:16 mark. But thanks to seven 3-pointers in the final eight-plus minutes of the frame, Boston was able to take a 55-53 lead into the break. Milwaukee’s surge was paced by Antetokounmpo, who rebounded from his quiet start and logged 12 second-quarter points to lead all scorers at the half with 14. Boston’s starters carried the load for the home team, as Hayward, Irving, Horford and Ojeleye recorded 24 of the Celtics’ 32 points in the quarter. It was an all-around shooting bonanza in the first half, as the teams combined for 44 3-point attempts and only seven free throws.

LET IT FLY Boston came out firing from the get-go in the third, and that trend continued throughout the quarter as the green’s sharpshooting led to a 93-78 lead heading into the final frame. Irving (11 points in the quarter) set the tone for the C’s in the third, scoring the team’s first nine points all via 3-pointers. Boston knocked down eight buckets from beyond the arc in the frame, including a pair from Morris, who provided a boost off the bench with eight points in the third. Horford and Aron Baynes also had fine quarters with five points apiece, as did Tatum, who was held scoreless in the first half. The Bucks couldn’t find a rhythm in the third, but Malcolm Brogdon’s 10 points in the quarter helped keep Milwaukee in striking distance.

FIGHT TO THE FINISH The Bucks showed a lot of fight as the fourth got underway, opening the quarter on a 12-0 run to cut the Celtics’ lead to just three. Milwaukee threatened to steal the momentum altogether, but 3-pointers in the ensuing minutes from Tatum, Irving, Morris and Hayward maintained Boston’s slim advantage. After Brogdon cut the Celtics’ lead to 113-111 with 1:45 remaining, neither team could find points until Eric Bledsoe earned a trip to the line with 12.8 seconds to go. The Bucks guard only could connect on one of two attempts, though, allowing Irving to swell the C’s lead to 115-112 with a pair of free throws. Milwaukee opted to attack the basket instead of going for a potential game-tying three with four seconds to go, but Antetokounmpo only could knock down one of two free throws after a Marcus Smart foul. From there, Horford drained a pair from the charity stripe to ensure a Celtics win.

PLAY OF THE GAME Ojeleye made his first start of the season Thursday night, and he celebrated with this highlight-reel slam.

UP NEXT The Celtics hit the road for a Saturday night date with the Indiana Pacers. Tip-off from Bankers Life Fieldhouse is set for 7 p.m. ET.

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Post by fierce on Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:08 pm

Celts looking like the Rockets of last season.

It's not good.

Celts relying way too heavily on 3s.
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Post by TheHat on Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:19 pm

If the Celts are such a good team, why is the other teams that drive to the hoop and back-door cut? Can't the Celts do it? Or are they instructed to avoid it?

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Post by 112288 on Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:25 pm

AMEN! LOOK AT THE POINTS IN THE PAINT FOR MILWAUKEE VERSES BOSTON...UGLY!

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Post by fierce on Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:31 pm

TheHat wrote:If the Celts are such a good team, why is the other teams that drive to the hoop and back-door cut?  Can't the Celts do it?  Or are they instructed to avoid it?

It's about the personnel you have.

Celts don't have those kinds of players.

Avery Bradley was the guy who used to do that for the Cs.
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Re: POST GAME MILWAUKEE BUCKS - HOME

Post by fierce on Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:32 pm

112288 wrote:AMEN!   LOOK AT THE POINTS IN THE PAINT FOR MILWAUKEE VERSES BOSTON...UGLY!

112288

Not only points in the paint.
Celts only attempted 13 FTs while the Bucks attempted 30 FTs.

When the Celts are ahead in the 4th, they should stop jacking up 3s and attack the basket more or find easy 2-point shots.
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Post by swish on Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:38 pm

Celtics now hold the record for fewest 2pt field goal attempts in the shot clock era - with 37 attempts.

 Previous lows below.

http://bkref.com/tiny/yrLrX

Above is the corrected link

 swish


Last edited by swish on Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:23 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by fierce on Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:53 pm

swish wrote:Celtics now hold the record for fewest 2pt field goal attempts in the shot clock era - with 37 attempts.

 Previous lows below.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tsl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=team_per_game&year_min=1955&lg_id=NBA&c1stat=fg2a_per_g&c1comp=lt&c1val=50&orde

 swish

That's amazing!
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Post by bobheckler on Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:34 am

Brian Robb
Brian Robb @BrianTRobb
yesterday
Kyrie Irving on the C's record-breaking night from 3-point range: "They’re wide open. If they’re going to play defense like that then I don’t see why not...I hope we shoot 80 next game if they play defense like that."


bob


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Post by fierce on Fri Nov 02, 2018 3:55 am

If the 3s are falling then it's good.
But if it's a bad night of shooting then it's an automatic loss.
It's live by the 3 and die by the 3.

Celts need more diversity in their offense.
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Post by bobheckler on Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:24 am

fierce wrote:If the 3s are falling then it's good.
But if it's a bad night of shooting then it's an automatic loss.
It's live by the 3 and die by the 3.

Celts need more diversity in their offense.


Fierce,

Such is life in today's NBA, HOWEVER, the Celtics are currently:

1.  Tied for 10th in 3pt fgas/game.  GSW is 16th.  Saying we are are completely dependent upon 3s is an overstatement.

2.  2nd in 3pt fg%.  GSW is 1st.  So our 3pt shooting isn't the problem either.  At this point GSW should stand for "Gold Standard of Winning".  with Curry, Thompson and Durant they are the Gold Standard for 3pt shooting.  I will have no problem if we end the season right behind them in this metric.

3.  20th in ftas.  GSW is 22nd.  Would I rather be in the top 10?  Of course, but we're ahead of GSW, so how big a deal can it be?

4.  17th in ft%.  GSW is #1.  This is worth a few ppg, so it's important, but is unrelated to offensive style and execution.  We're getting more ftas than GSW, we're just not capitalizing as well on them.

5.  21st in 2pt fg%.  GSW is #1.  Maybe this is why we take so many 3s, because we aren't good there?  GSW also only takes 2 more 2pt fgas than us, so that's not the difference-maker, BUT the disparity in efficiency is a killer.

6.  We are tied, at 24th, with GSW in fgas/game.  This, quite frankly, blows my mind.  I thought for sure they would be a high-volume offense.  They aren't, they are a high-efficiency offense.  This was also true of the 2008 World Champion Boston Celtics.  Not a lot of fgas but they were brutally efficient.  When they shot they made you pay and if you challenged their shots and fouled them they made you pay by hitting their fritos.  Not a lot of empty or almost empty possessions.  Same with GSW.

7.  We are 22nd in pace.  GSW is 5th.  We are the 4th youngest team while GSW is the 4th oldest.  If there is anywhere I think Brad's message isn't getting through it's here.

In summary we are in good shape offensively, in my opinion, except for ft% (which is an individual thing, not a team execution thing) and 2pt fg%, NOT 2pt fgas.  Increase our pace and get more shots?  Good with that too, absolutely, especially with our depth.  We should be shooting in the first half of the shot clock much more.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2018.html



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Post by fierce on Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:33 am

bob

Maybe it was just against the Bucks, but 55 attempts from beyond the arc is just too much.

Also, what I mean by "over dependence" is even if the Celts are leading in the 4th, why keep jacking up 3s?

That allows opposing teams to come back.

The previous game, against the Pistons, and last night against the Bucks should NOT have been that close.
But because the Celts keep jacking up 3s, it allowed the opposing teams to come back.
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Post by cowens/oldschool on Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:34 am

I’m not crazy about this new era of teams winning and dying by the 3, but hitting 24 out of 55 is phenomenal, I’ll take that anytime.
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Re: POST GAME MILWAUKEE BUCKS - HOME

Post by sinus007 on Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:59 am

Hi,
Let me start with win is a win is a win.
As for the abandons of 3pts, if a player or several are in the groove - why not.
I'm more concerned by Celtics relaxed defense. They played it really tough only in the 1st quarter, after that it was so-so.
Another positive aspect was Semi's defense on Freak, especially considering that before last night he's played about 25 min total, mostly in garbage time.

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Post by dbrown4 on Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:10 am

OK.  That completes the 3 games set against the unbeatens.  What's working?

1)  Nobody standing around on offense-ball movement is fun to watch.  Leads to 75% AST/FGM (vs. 50% for MIL), leads to open shots, in this particular game it led to the Celtics being wide open behind the arc.

2)  Celtics Blocks vs. MIL...8-3?!!  WTH?  Freak with ZERO blocks?!  I say, come on man!!  Everything else on the stat sheet is pretty balanced/even.  This is probably your ECF's match up this season.  

3)  Celtics taking what is offered.  If MIL is going to back off the C's on D and dare them launch 3's, beware.  43% vs. 31%.  Our team can shoot the long ball.  But only up to a point.  Can't relive the last 7 minutes of last year's ECF.  

4)  Guarding and respecting MIL behind the line on defense.  The half court was wide open as we were guarding all 5 MIL players on the floor at the arc.  That paid off in spades.  31%.  That's about the pace a guarded 3 will go in from a great team at best.  See Paul George below.  Nice call Brad.

5)  "Surprise" Ojoleye starting and contributing nicely while Jaylen is out.  If I were a gambling man, I would have put Morris in to start to reward him for his great start.  Brad with the backdoor...and then put Morris in!  Nice move!

Charles Barkley said it best many years ago.  It's not teams that live by the three die by the three.  It's simply "You die by the three."  Celtics have learned from last year's season ending run.  Last night, they almost died by the three but pulled up just short of that by going back inside at the end and getting fouls and buckets.  Just ask Paul George last night.   0-10 from Threeville.  Here is comes.  

Up next, hitting the road mostly against .500+ teams out west.  Another big test and marker for us.  Lots of potential glimmers!  

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Post by Phil Pressey on Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:39 am

It's a long season. The Celtics have plenty of time to blow out teams.

The league has gone three crazy. There seems to be nothing we can do about it.

The great news is the Celtics are stacked for a roster. There are months and months left to put together the playoff strategy. Hayward has plenty of time to rejuvenate himself back to greatness.

Just win games. Don't worry about style points. Without Jaylen and Theis and with multiple guys still rusty, this is not instant oatmeal.

This is Jaylen's third year. He technically deserves one more year of slack. Tatum is still close to puppy status in regards to NBA years.

Rozier and Smart are the brand new adults. It feels like something very special is in the making. The hot potato passing shows that Kyrie is determined to grow as a teammate.

The C's imho are in their own tier right below GS but very close to them.

I think this will be #18 this year due to the depth. I sincerely believe GS is ripe for coming back to earth.

I think it's fairly obvious the Celtics pose a true threat despite the cold start. Manny Ramirez always took a bit of time to heat up?

I thought LeBron should've signed with Philly but chickened out.

Anthony Davis says he is concentrating on being the best player in the NBA. Isn't that special? Kyrie is trying to lead the best team. He talks of other leaders. He is clearly both confident and humble within the same person. He is a funny guy and I appreciate his effort on defense. Kyrie Irving definitely thinks like us. It's a symbiotic relationship. We get to see great efforts from local teams. They get to experience pure team and sports keeping it fun and childlike as much as possible.

Golden State is starting to feel the pressure. Durant going to Golden State was a baby move of epic proportions. No one respects him for that.

The C's have star power. I don't know what happened to Tatum. That's the sophomore wall? The whole team looked out of it except for Morris. Now everything seems back on track. The schedule will eventually get very easy. 65 wins is still very doable. 60 is the historic number. A team winning around that many is probably a true champion contender. The C's match up very well with GS. Kyrie has already beaten them.
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Post by cowens/oldschool on Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:06 am

We can defend them better than anyone, we’ve got tenacity, speed and length on perimeter with Rozier, Smart, Brown and Tatum....and they know it.
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Re: POST GAME MILWAUKEE BUCKS - HOME

Post by mrkleen09 on Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:40 pm

The league is turning towards more and more 3s, but last night was more the Celtics responding to the Bucks playing off them and giving them wide open looks, over and over.

Bucks made a good run in the 4th quarter, but Celtics are clearly a better team across the board. As soon as Hayward gets fully up to speed, we get Brown back and the rotation fully falls into place - the Celtics wont have a problem dealing with the Bucks.

Giannis is amazing, but other than him - the Celtics are better at every position. And the Celtics bench is miles better. Not worried one bit about Milwaukee.
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Post by sinus007 on Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:49 pm

Hi,
Speaking about Giannis. I wonder if/when (which one is up for discussion) he acquires long range shooting he'd be Freaking Monster. What a Face

AK
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Post by dbrown4 on Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:06 pm

sinus007,

As soon as he can throw it in the ocean consistently from the FT line! Thanks a painful looking stroke!

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Post by jrleftfoot on Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:55 pm

Some of this commentary is making my head swim. 55 attempts is not too many when you make 24. As Kyrie said, it was a result of the way they were defended against. Most of them were wide open , uncontested shots. We beat an undefeated team and the kvetching and moaning reaches a crescendo. As soon as we sign a Giannis we will start outscoring opponents in the paint. Until then, Stevens will continue to coach to his players strengths.
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Re: POST GAME MILWAUKEE BUCKS - HOME

Post by dboss on Fri Nov 02, 2018 2:05 pm

The Celtic won their 4th in a row against an undefeated Bucks team that went in at 7-0, the best record in the NBA.  This was a signature win by any measure.  The pathway to this win was filled with a lot of wrong turns but  the Celtics still reached there final destination.

Both teams went into this game as highly ranked defenses.  The Celtics were #1 in defending the 3 point (27%) line and the Bucks were ranked #2 at 28%.  The Bucks were also  top team in the league in made 3PA.  After last night's game the GSW have 120 made and the Bucks have 118 dropping to #2 in the league.

The pregame review highlighted the need for Boston to defend the perimeter and that is exactly what they did.  They held the Bucks to 31% from behind the arc on 9-29 shooting.  Result: mission accomplished.  The Celtics took away a major part of what the Bucks like to do.

How the hell did this game end up so close?  When you concentrate on defending the perimeter it opens up more opportunities to drive the ball.  Antetokounmpo  had a field day and often found himself in favorable situations with smaller guys trying desperately to check him.  He pretty much scored at will at the rim because we do not have enough length and quickness to challenge his shot.  I also thought that Brogdon got to the rim a few too many times.  This game was close because of the freak!

The Celtics shut down Middleton, 6-18 and 3-10 from deep and our offense also forced the Android out of the game.  He was 2nd on the team in 3PA going in and ended up as a non factor (0-3 from deep and 2 points for the game.

In the end the high scoring Bucks were held to 7 points below their season average.

The Celtics offense was a combination of beauty and the beast.  They hit an eye popping 24 3 point shots which is a new record for them I  believe it missed the all time NBA record by 1.  In accomplishing this goal the Celtics took and ungodly 55 3 point shots during  the game.  This shit looked like a one day sale on a buy one get one free holiday.  It was a frenzy and all were more then willing to partake.  At one point the crowd yelled put your money away as Baynes contemplated taking his  6 three point shot of the evening.  Thanks to the fans, he passed that one up.

The Celtics do not get a lot of shots at the rim because they are as lazy as a 17 year old kid who stayed out late on Friday night knowing he is supposed to cut the grass early Saturday morning.  You are not going to get fouled shooting 55 3 point shots.

The most important thing is the win so I have to remind myself of that as well as how certain guys are starting to play.

Semi got a rare start and did not disappoint.  I thought he was the best defender on the Freak all night.  He also manged to knock down 2 three pointers and he scored two very athletic baskets at the rim.  His stat line:  22 minutes, 4-6 shooting, 5 rebounds 2 steals and NO turnovers.  Not bad kid.

Each game Gordon Hayward is playing better.  Last night he maximized his opportunities in 27 minutes by scoring 18 points on 6-11 shooting including 3-5 from deep, 3-3 from the line, 4 rebounds and 5 assists.  He is starting to really blend in with this team and seems almost innocuous.  If anyone had any doubts about his comeback his recent play should out those doubts to rest.

Morris continues his hot shooting (17 points, 5-8 from deep)

I am not going to mention everyone's performance but I cannot overlook what Kyrie did last night.

Wow.  What a gifted scorer.  The Celtics won this game mainly because whenever they needed a big hoop Kyrie was more than willing to accommodate that need.  This is why Danny traded for him.  28 points scored last night on 10-20 shoots and 6-12 from deep.  Not everyone on this team should have a green light in taking any shot, anytime or anywhere.  Kyrie is someone that should.

In sum, we won a closely contested game against a very impressive Bucks team.  The Celtics offense scored a season high 117 points and the lid has been blown off of the rim.  There are still very noticeable chemistry/rotation issues but as the season moves on I expect that we will see a well oiled machine on the court.
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Re: POST GAME MILWAUKEE BUCKS - HOME

Post by mulcogiseng on Sat Nov 03, 2018 10:50 am

I got my fingers and my toes and that's about all but wouldn't it take 40-50 extra two point shots to make up for that 3 point performance? Whatever that number actually is provides the reason for any player taking an open 3 in Brad's offense. It's fun and exciting and ohsosexy but I'm with all the rest who bemoan this trend.
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Re: POST GAME MILWAUKEE BUCKS - HOME

Post by dboss on Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:45 am

The metrics support taking 3 point shots.. If you take 100 shots and shoot .335 that adds up to 100.5 points per 100 shots. You would have to shoot at least .505 2 pointers to score more points.

That is what makes GSW such an awesome offensive team. They kill it from everywhere. AFG .595

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Re: POST GAME MILWAUKEE BUCKS - HOME

Post by mrkleen09 on Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:39 pm

The game vs the Bucks was an outlier, that in no way says the Celtics are overly crazy for 3 pointers. They are middle of the pack.

The NBA average is 32 attempts per game - Celtics take 36.
The NBA average is 11 makes per game - Celtics make 12.6
The NBA average shooting percentage is 36% - Celtics are shooting 34%.

As usual, taking a small sample size out of context is a very poor way to make an argument.

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