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Everyone is buzzing about Robert Williams

Post by bobheckler on Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:12 pm

https://chowderandchampions.com/2018/12/01/boston-celtics-everyone-buzzing-robert-williams/



Everyone is buzzing about Robert Williams



by Sam Minton 6 hours ago Follow @sam_minton22



Boston Celtics rookie Robert Williams proved on Friday night. that he doesn’t need a lot of time to make an impact in a game.

Rookie Robert Williams hasn’t gotten a ton of playing time in his rookie season. It’s hard when you have such a talented roster as the Boston Celtics do. Williams showed Celtics fans why he was picked on Friday.

Al Horford didn’t play, meaning that there would be more minutes to spread around. This means that Celtics fans got to see guys like Williams and PJ Dozier play for more than the last few minutes of a blowout.

Williams looked great in the 8 minutes he played. He only scored two points, but he soared high through the air, throwing down an alley-oop. Williams also had two rebounds and two impressive blocks.

The rookie’s athleticism is off the charts. He has shown how useful he can be in a short period of time. Imagine what will happen will Williams gets some decent playing time.

Williams has already caught the attention of his teammates who can’t wait to see what Williams will do in the future.

“That kid, he’s going to be special, man. He’s going to be special,” Morris said. When he gets a chance to go out there and really contribute to this team he’s going to be special. His mindset and how hard he works, the intangibles, things you just can’t teach — I think he’s going to be special for this team.”

Since we finally get to see what Williams can do on the court, it puts all the nonsense about him being late and missing flights into perspective. He has done all the right things since joining the NBA.

Williams has a great mentor in Al Horford and made the smart decision to move close to the Boston Celtics facility. The rookie has now even garnered the most unique nickname in NBA history, Time Lord.



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Re: Everyone is buzzing about Robert Williams

Post by bobheckler on Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:16 pm








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Re: Everyone is buzzing about Robert Williams

Post by NYCelt on Sat Dec 01, 2018 3:37 pm

I'm telling' ya...this kid is going to force Stevens to give him more minutes. He gives us defense our other bigs just cannot provide.
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Re: Everyone is buzzing about Robert Williams

Post by bobheckler on Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:55 pm






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Re: Everyone is buzzing about Robert Williams

Post by kdp59 on Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:06 am

and nine days later.........
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Re: Everyone is buzzing about Robert Williams

Post by wideclyde on Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:16 am

Sometimes even good coaches do not fully understand the talent of their own guys until forced to play them in key situations.

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Re: Everyone is buzzing about Robert Williams

Post by gyso on Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:28 am

wideclyde wrote:Sometimes even good coaches do not fully understand the talent of their own guys until forced to play them in key situations.

That has to be it. Every time we have seen him in a game, the good easily outweighs the bad.

All I want to see is about 15 minutes per game from the T I M E L O R D. That takes (on average) 5 minutes each from Horford, Baynes and Theis.

Another immediate option is to let Horford rest until his balky knee has recovered. That, or go in and fix whatever ails his knee so that he is ready to go full out by April.

Free the T I M E L O R D!!!

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Re: Everyone is buzzing about Robert Williams

Post by dboss on Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:20 am

Brad has been working hard to get this team to play well together. It is not surprising that Williams has made only cameo appearances up until last night. Last night he was forced to go with Williams and now that we have seen him play extended minutes it is clear that he is in fact ready to contribute right now.

He is going to take someone's minutes. I think he will end up taking minutes from Baynes.

I like Baynes but he is very limited as a defender and rebounder. I think Williams will make our defensive much better. I do not think they will miss Baynes' 5.5 PPG on offense.
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Re: Everyone is buzzing about Robert Williams

Post by mrkleen09 on Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:41 pm

dboss wrote:
I like Baynes but he is very limited as a defender and rebounder.  I think Williams will make our defensive much better.  I do not think they will miss Baynes' 5.5 PPG on offense.  

Saying Baynes is limited as a defender and rebounder? Sorry, that is just false.

Last year he was 8th in the NBA with a 96.6 defensive rating per 100 possessions. He had an opponent field goal percentage of 42.9%, good enough for 4th in the NBA and snags 22.4% of all available defensive rebounds despite competing with a number of good defenders on the Celtics' roster.

This year, his defense is even better...he is 6th in the league in defensive rating. He isnt just a good defender, he is elite - one of the best in the NBA.

If you like Robert Williams and want to see him get additional minutes, fine. But your reasoning above is simply not represented by the facts.
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Re: Everyone is buzzing about Robert Williams

Post by dboss on Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:14 pm

mrkleen09 wrote:
dboss wrote:
I like Baynes but he is very limited as a defender and rebounder.  I think Williams will make our defensive much better.  I do not think they will miss Baynes' 5.5 PPG on offense.  

Saying Baynes is limited as a defender and rebounder?  Sorry, that is just false.

Last year he was 8th in the NBA with a  96.6 defensive rating per 100 possessions. He had an opponent field goal percentage of 42.9%, good enough for 4th in the NBA and snags 22.4% of all available defensive rebounds despite competing with a number of good defenders on the Celtics' roster.

This year, his defense is even better...he is 6th in the league in defensive rating.  He isnt just a good defender, he is elite - one of the best in the NBA.

If you like Robert Williams and want to see him get additional minutes, fine.  But your reasoning above is simply not represented by the facts.

My reasoning is based on reality.   How many minutes was he able to play at that level?  Was his defensive rating impacted by who was on the floor with him?  

I seen him play and he is not a true rim protector.  He does not intimidate anyone and he cannot slide up to defend the pick and role.  His rebounding is suspect and plays volleyball too much instead of securing the rebound.  He does not finish at the rim.  Sometimes he just throws up shots and does not even look at the rim.  He is slow running up and down the court.  I can think of a lot of legit reasons why Williams should take his minutes.

He is not close to being an elite defender and that is why his minutes are down to 14.5 per game.  

He is a solid rotation player but has zero upside at this point in his career.

He is a career 15 MPG player that has averaged 5.4 points and 4.4 rebounds.  He's 32 years old and is not going to get any better.  Williams can do things athletically that Baynes simply cannot do.  So I stand by my statement that Baynes is limited defensively and as a rebounder. Even Theis is better than Baynes as a defender.  The Celtics have been needing to upgrade their athleticism on their frontline for years.   Williams is an upgrade over Baynes. He just has not had an opportunity to play much.

Danny drafted him because he was the defensive player of the year back to back in the SEC. The Celtics need to play him.
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Re: Everyone is buzzing about Robert Williams

Post by mrkleen09 on Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:29 pm

Sounds like you have all the answers and know better than that stats.

Rim protector is only one measure of a good defender, clearly.  Marcus Smart is not a rim protector.

Baynes is elite for time on the court.  You can argue that point all you want, but that is not debatable.  A Top 10 Defender year after year = Elite.  

Baynes is limited in his offense.  In other news, water is wet.  

Last I checked, Brad Stevens was the coach and plays no players based on his draft position or the wishes of Danny Ainge.  He plays who he thinks gives the team a better chance to win.  



Maybe over time that will mean more Williams, which is fine with me. But dont try and sell us this bullshit about Baynes not being a good rebounder or defender.  Both are patently false

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Re: Everyone is buzzing about Robert Williams

Post by dboss on Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:04 pm

I could give a rat's ass what you think.

I have a right to my opinion and you have a right to yours. The only bullshit is that brown sticky stuff dripping from your mouth.

I never said he was not a good defender or rebounder when did I say that? I said he was limited. I said he was not elite and I stand by that statement. Your assertion of what I said is patently false.

Baynes 97.6, Williams 93.9, Theis 86.4 defensive ratings.





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Re: Everyone is buzzing about Robert Williams

Post by mrkleen09 on Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:16 pm

dboss wrote:I could give a rat's ass what you think.  

I have a right to my opinion and you have a right to yours.  The only bullshit is that brown sticky stuff dripping from your mouth.

I never said he was not a good defender or rebounder when did I say that?  I said he was limited.  I said he was not elite and I stand by that statement.  Your assertion of what I said is patently false.  

Baynes 97.6, Williams 93.9, Theis 86.4 defensive ratings.


This isnt personal....so not sure why you are taking down in the gutter like this, but fair enough.

Someone who is in the NBA Top 10 year after year in defensive rating is a high level defender. Baynes is certainly better against certain players - so if that is what you mean by limited, maybe we agree.

His offense, for sure is very limited and THAT is why he plays limited minutes. But you already know that, it just doesnt fit your narrative.

A healthy Aron Baynes - over the course of a full season, is a big part of what makes the Celtics a good defensive team. Robert Williams has a lot of potential and may well be a better player long term.

But Baynes has proven himself over a career, season after season. Williams has played a total of 59 minutes. Rolling Eyes
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Re: Everyone is buzzing about Robert Williams

Post by hawksnestbeach on Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:31 pm

I'm with the crowd buzzing to see Williams. IMO, Brad's dilemma is giving him more minutes when several guys believe they're more deserving. Little injuries can be a blessing, allowing Brad to experiment. IMO, Williams should play 15 mpg now because we'll need him later, and the more seasoned he is in April, the deeper we'll go. He might be handy against leviathans like Embiid in stretches, offers insurance against injuries, and so quick!
Horford is not a beast. Baynes is a journeyman, better than I thought. I like him, but when he was on the floor, writhing in pain after rolling his ankle, I was screaming at the TV, trying to get Brad's attention. "Get Williams on the plane, now!"
All he needs is a short jumper and we'll play till June. Hawk

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Re: Everyone is buzzing about Robert Williams

Post by dboss on Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:03 pm

mrkleen09 wrote:
dboss wrote:I could give a rat's ass what you think.  

I have a right to my opinion and you have a right to yours.  The only bullshit is that brown sticky stuff dripping from your mouth.

I never said he was not a good defender or rebounder when did I say that?  I said he was limited.  I said he was not elite and I stand by that statement.  Your assertion of what I said is patently false.  

Baynes 97.6, Williams 93.9, Theis 86.4 defensive ratings.


This isnt personal....so not sure why you are taking down in the gutter like this, but fair enough.

Someone who is in the NBA Top 10 year after year in defensive rating is a high level defender.  Baynes is certainly better against certain players - so if that is what you mean by limited, maybe we agree.  

His offense, for sure is very limited and THAT is why he plays limited minutes.  But you already know that, it just doesnt fit your narrative.  

A healthy Aron Baynes - over the course of a full season, is a big part of what makes the Celtics a good defensive team.  Robert Williams has a lot of potential and may well be a better player long term.  

But Baynes has proven himself over a career, season after season.  Williams has played a total of 59 minutes.  Rolling Eyes

You are the one that misquoted me and you are the one that said I was trying to sell us bullshit.  When someone disagrees with you you always seem to take it personally.  I just responded in kind but I apologize because we have had far too many meaningful discussions.

I said he was a solid rotation player.  

What I meant by limited is just the fact that he does not have the quickness or athleticism to be a true elite defender.  He has size and decent positioning technique but does not consistently rebound using both hands.  On the offensive glass his tends to tap the ball around instead of securing the rebound.  He is not quick enough or long enough to rebound outside of his own space.  He struggles to defend out away from the basket because he lacks lateral quickness.  Guards can easily take him off the dribble.  He does not jump high enough to effectively contests shots at the rim.  Despite his size and strength he rarely knocks people on their ass.  He is slow transitioning from offense to defense.  

An area that we have discussed countless times on this board was the need to rebound the ball better.  We have also discussed the need for a legit rim protector.  Williams brings those skill sets to the game.   I knew this before they drafted him.  I live in SEC country and watched him enough in college to recognize his abilities.  I was shocked that Boston was able to get him at #27.  I have stated several times that it would take a while for Brad to find some minutes for him.  I think that time has come despite a sample size of 59 minutes.

One of the reasons why we struggle beating teams like Toronto or the Bucks is because of their length and athleticism in the frontcourt.  Al Horford is on the decline.  There is no two ways about it.  The Celtics need an injection of youthful energy and athleticism to offset that decline.

Enter Robert Williams and his 59 minutes of playing time.  I think you have to start playing him.
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Re: Everyone is buzzing about Robert Williams

Post by swish on Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:13 pm

Be carefull about how much you read into a players stats that is only averaging a career 15 minutes a game. Out of the roughly 440 players in the league - 15 minutes per game will give you a ranking below the middle of the pack - probably spending most of your time competing against the best of the worst or the worst of the best.

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Re: Everyone is buzzing about Robert Williams

Post by mrkleen09 on Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:56 pm

swish wrote:Be carefull about how much you read into a players stats that is only averaging a career 15 minutes a game. Out of the roughly 440 players in the league - 15 minutes per game will give you a ranking below the middle of the pack - probably spending most of your time competing against the best of the worst or the worst of the best.

 swish

Aron Baynes started 67 times for the Celtics last year. He played the majority of his minutes against starters.
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Re: Everyone is buzzing about Robert Williams

Post by swish on Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:31 pm

mrkleen09 wrote:
swish wrote:Be carefull about how much you read into a players stats that is only averaging a career 15 minutes a game. Out of the roughly 440 players in the league - 15 minutes per game will give you a ranking below the middle of the pack - probably spending most of your time competing against the best of the worst or the worst of the best.

 swish

Aron Baynes started 67 times for the Celtics last year. He played the majority of his minutes against starters.

mrkleen09

And now this year (like most of his career) he's primarily coming off the bench - which begs the question as to why he's a 15 minute per game player. That's just not the numbers that you would expect of a player with an elite talent, to be playing. That's why I caution against extrapolating his limited numbers without having precise knowledge as to who he has been competing against. Only 15 minutes per game - but what's the breakdown - all 15 minutes against starters or is it 12 or 9. Perhaps those numbers are available - I just have not seen them.

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Re: Everyone is buzzing about Robert Williams

Post by cowens/oldschool on Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:45 pm

I like Baynes and in certain match ups his size and bulk have helped us, he is however limited. Everytime he rolls and we try an alley opp, he rarely finishes and we have a wasted offensive possession. In his first shot at getting minutes against an all world player, Williams got 11 rebounds in 23 minutes and we saw how talented he is on defense. His time is now and we have to get his talents/abilities in our line up as they address our teams biggest weakness. I can see him playing with Al or Baynes or Morris or Tatum, just get him on the floor!!!
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Re: Everyone is buzzing about Robert Williams

Post by mrkleen09 on Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:26 pm

swish wrote:

  mrkleen09

And now this year (like most of his career) he's primarily coming off the bench - which begs the question as to why he's a 15 minute per game player. That's just not the numbers that you would expect of a player with an elite talent, to be playing. That's why I caution against extrapolating his limited numbers without having precise knowledge as to who he has been competing against.  Only 15 minutes per game - but what's the breakdown - all 15 minutes against starters or is it 12 or 9. Perhaps those numbers are available - I just have not seen them.

  swish

We are way off track at this point. Just to level set where this whole thing started.

I am fully aware that Aron Baynes is not an elite talent (those are your words, not mine), I said he was an elite defender and based on the time he is on the court (this is a fact)

He will start when he is healthy and the team is playing a center that is big and bulky. Same last year. Baynes primarily coming off the bench this year means nothing, simply matchups and his injuries. Lots of the Celtics are playing less minutes than last year, or playing off the bench. Clearly Jaylen Brown is no less talented than he was last year, yet he is the 7th man at current.

I am over this....and happy to see Robert Williams get more looks and if that is at the expense of Baynes minutes, so be it. But lets not go overboard and try and say that Aron isnt a big part of the defensive identity of this team, or try and bush off a strong (NBA Top 10) defender as average.
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Re: Everyone is buzzing about Robert Williams

Post by swish on Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:37 pm

mrkleen09 wrote:
swish wrote:  

  mrkleen09

And now this year (like most of his career) he's primarily coming off the bench - which begs the question as to why he's a 15 minute per game player. That's just not the numbers that you would expect of a player with an elite talent, to be playing. That's why I caution against extrapolating his limited numbers without having precise knowledge as to who he has been competing against.  Only 15 minutes per game - but what's the breakdown - all 15 minutes against starters or is it 12 or 9. Perhaps those numbers are available - I just have not seen them.

  swish

We are way off track at this point.  Just to level set where this whole thing started.  

I am fully aware that Aron Baynes is not an elite talent (those are your words, not mine), I said he was an elite defender and based on the time he is on the court (this is a fact)

He will start when he is healthy and the team is playing a center that is big and bulky.  Same last year.  Baynes primarily coming off the bench this year means nothing, simply matchups and his injuries.  Lots of the Celtics are playing less minutes than last year, or playing off the bench.  Clearly Jaylen Brown is no less talented than he was last year, yet he is the 7th man at current.

I am over this....and happy to see Robert Williams get more looks and if that is at the expense of Baynes minutes, so be it.  But lets not go overboard and try and say that Aron isnt a big part of the defensive identity of this team, or try and bush off a strong (NBA Top 10) defender as average.

What's your definition of an elite basketball talent ?

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Re: Everyone is buzzing about Robert Williams

Post by bobheckler on Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:06 am





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Re: Everyone is buzzing about Robert Williams

Post by Berlin-T on Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:08 am

I'm as excited as anyone about Williams.

As for his playing time - that's up to Stevens to whom I owe an apology. When we were struggling at the beginning  of the season I posted that Stevens should wake up, that this is not the college game and that he could not rotate 20 players (hyperbole) a night.
Well, apparently he can! Amazingly the end of our bench just outplayed the Pelicans.

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Re: Everyone is buzzing about Robert Williams

Post by bobheckler on Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:01 pm

The Boo-Butt Time Lord of the Rims is now ranked 22nd in blocks/game with 1.3 blocks/game while averaging only 7.6mpg in 13 games.  There is only one other player on this list that plays < 10mpg and that's Chris Boucher of the Knicks (4.0mpg, 1.0 blocks/game, 4 games played).  

Who are the other players tied with Williams @ 22?  The Greek Freak (34mpg), Jusef Nurkic (26.6mpg), Jonathon Isaac (23.9mpg), Max Kleber (18mpg), Derrick Favors (23.1mpg), Jerami Grant (30.3mpg).  So, not only is Williams in some excellent company, his company got their 1.3 blocks/game over many more minutes.

http://www.espn.com/nba/seasonleaders/_/league/nba/sort/avgBlocks


All the appropriate caveats apply about small sample size.


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Re: Everyone is buzzing about Robert Williams

Post by dboss on Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:39 pm

Williams is a shot blocking machine!

He is a good addition to a team in need of his particular set of skills.  When AH returns he will play less but I think Brad needs to find a way to play him a few minutes every game and not just garbage minutes.  Keep him engaged.

It is a very long and grueling season.  When young guys get a chance to play early it strengthens your team down the road.

At least we no longer have to dream about needing a rim protector.
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Re: Everyone is buzzing about Robert Williams

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