Jimmy Butler challenging Brett Brown, 76ers' offensive system

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Jimmy Butler challenging Brett Brown, 76ers' offensive system

Post by bobheckler on Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:33 pm

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25684980/jimmy-butler-challenging-philadelphia-76ers-coach-brett-brown-offensive-role



Jimmy Butler challenging Brett Brown, 76ers' offensive system




1:43 PM PT
Ramona Shelburne
Adrian Wojnarowski




Philadelphia 76ers All-Star Jimmy Butler has aggressively challenged coach Brett Brown on his role in the offense, complicating an already tenuous chemistry among the team's Big Three hierarchy, league sources told ESPN.

Butler has been vocal in his contesting of Brown and his system, including a recent film session in Portland that some witnesses considered "disrespectful" and beyond normal player-coach discourse.

Brown has told people within the organization that he had no issues with that exchange and considered it within the confines of the relationship that he has developed with Butler, sources said.

While a source close to Butler contends that his intense, direct style can come off as combative as he is trying to make clear his viewpoints, Butler's sluggish assimilation into the Sixers environment is causing some concern about his long-term viability and fit with the organization, league sources said. Nevertheless, the franchise's full focus and resources remain on making this new partnership work this season and beyond.


The Sixers acquired Butler, a four-time All-Star, in a deal with the Minnesota Timberwolves for Robert Covington and Dario Saric in mid-November. The Sixers (25-14), who are currently fourth in the Eastern Conference, are 16-8 since the deal -- 15-6 when Butler plays.

Butler missed Friday's practice with an upper respiratory infection, according to reports. The 76ers host the Dallas Mavericks on Saturday.

Bringing together the complex trio of Butler, Joel Embiid and Ben Simmons was never going to be easy for any coach, and it's already proving a substantial challenge for the Sixers.

Brown, who signed a contract extension in the offseason, remains a popular figure with ownership and management. Around the organization, there's an urgency for Brown and his coaching staff to stabilize the situation, sources said.

Ownership has been committed to making the Big Three of Embiid, Simmons and Butler work, especially with Butler's free agency looming this summer.

Brown had already spent significant time working on the sometimes-tenuous relationship between Simmons and Embiid, and those challenges have been compounded by the urgency to introduce Butler into the Sixers' dynamic.

Butler has expressed a desire to teammates to play in more traditional pick-and-roll and isolation sets, rather than trying to find his place in the Sixers' free-flowing offense, league sources said. In searching for answers, Butler has met privately with Brown and his coaching staff, as well as general manager Elton Brand, league sources told ESPN.

Butler, 29, can become a free agent this summer, and the organization's preference has been to re-sign him to an extension. Rival teams believe Butler will eventually decide to take meetings with interested suitors in July. Butler's preference has been to sign a more lucrative deal to remain with the Sixers, but it's clear that there are issues to be worked out before that comfort level fully exists.

Brown talks often about the challenge of growing his group of young stars together into a championship-level team, in the same way San Antonio (where he'd been assistant on coach Gregg Popovich's staff) did with Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker.

"What's most -- by a mile -- lately, on my mind, is the growth of a team, and the cohesion and the ability to share in somebody else's success," Brown said after Tuesday's victory over the LA Clippers. "The ability to communicate candidly, to coexist. That's all I care about.

"We're coming together. We have a new opportunity. You don't just click your heels and throw Jimmy Butler in and everybody's going to be playing the same way and style. It [doesn't] work like that. So my job is to grow a team. Ben and Jo, Jo and Jimmy, go anywhere you want. Those four are huge. Playing together is what's always, by a long shot, on my mind."


That challenge was evident Tuesday night when Simmons inadvertently elbowed Embiid in the face as both went up for a rebound. Cameras caught Embiid, who suffered a broken orbital bone last season in a collision with teammate Markelle Fultz, expressing frustration with Simmons -- who was close to a triple-double at the time -- for pursuing a rebound that Embiid was positioned well for.

Both players downplayed the incident afterward.

"I felt an elbow on my face, and I kind of freaked out because that's my same face I had surgery on. That's why I lost it," Embiid said. "It's a basketball play. Nothing to talk about."

Said Simmons: "Coach tells me to crash the boards, so I just went to the boards."



bob
MY NOTE: It's too bad that Brett Brown was forced to endure Sam Hinkie's "Process", and survived it, and now might get shoved out the door by the #1 locker room cancer in the NBA, Jimmy Butler. I don't know if Jimmy has ever been on a team with a dominating low post force that needs, and deserves, to be fed like Joel Embiid before. He can't be the high-volume shooter he was before. He was always the designated gunner, with DRose handling the ball, him and Rose. Now it's him, Embiid, Redick and Simmons going to the rim without him. Poor Brett Brown. Be careful what you ask for...



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Re: Jimmy Butler challenging Brett Brown, 76ers' offensive system

Post by dboss on Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:00 pm

Serves them right.  Butler is a very talented player at both ends of the court but he is a real pain in the ass.

If the Celtics had signed him he would be telling Danny and Brad what to do.

Jimmy Butthead is going to hasten the departure of Brett Brown.

Unfortunately the Sixers have zero leverage.  They have already traded good talent for him and his free agency status has a fuck you taint about it.

He has never played on a team with this much talent.  He is not Lebron James.  He does not get to coach.

He throws more shade on the Sixers than a dark novel by Nathaniel Hawthorne.


Last edited by dboss on Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Jimmy Butler challenging Brett Brown, 76ers' offensive system

Post by sinus007 on Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:26 pm

Hi,
I guess Butler's got Rondo complex...

AK
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Re: Jimmy Butler challenging Brett Brown, 76ers' offensive system

Post by bobheckler on Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:38 pm

sinus007 wrote:Hi,
I guess Butler's got Rondo complex...

AK


sinus,

They did play together in Chicago...


bob


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Re: Jimmy Butler challenging Brett Brown, 76ers' offensive system

Post by dboss on Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:49 pm

bobheckler wrote:
sinus007 wrote:Hi,
I guess Butler's got Rondo complex...

AK


sinus,

They did play together in Chicago...


bob


.

Well at least Rondo has a championship under his belt and just about everyone that mentions him always talks about his basketball IQ.

Players say he is a great teammate (except for Ray Allen who has his own set of issues) Coaches say he is a coach on the floor (except for Rick)

Butt-ler seems to piss everyone off and is void as a winner. No hardware.
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Re: Jimmy Butler challenging Brett Brown, 76ers' offensive system

Post by sinus007 on Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:10 pm

bobheckler wrote:
sinus007 wrote:Hi,
I guess Butler's got Rondo complex...

AK


sinus,

They did play together in Chicago...


bob


.

Hi,
I didn't know it's contagious. The problem ( thankfully not ours) is that JB doesn't come close to RR in BBIQ department.

AK
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Re: Jimmy Butler challenging Brett Brown, 76ers' offensive system

Post by NYCelt on Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:56 pm

dboss wrote:

He throws more shade on the Sixers than a dark novel by Nathaniel Hawthorne.


Quote of the week winner.
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Re: Jimmy Butler challenging Brett Brown, 76ers' offensive system

Post by mrkleen09 on Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:12 pm

That didnt take long.
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Re: Jimmy Butler challenging Brett Brown, 76ers' offensive system

Post by jrleftfoot on Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:35 pm

Rondo complex, my derriere; everybody who has ever played with Rondo sings his praises , except Ray Allen. So does Doc, btw. Rajon makes his teammates better, Butler dogs them. No effing comparison. Thank the gods we didn't trade any part of our future for this guy, who disappeared in the playoffs when RR went down.
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Re: Jimmy Butler challenging Brett Brown, 76ers' offensive system

Post by Ktronic1 on Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:42 pm

dboss wrote:
bobheckler wrote:
sinus007 wrote:Hi,
I guess Butler's got Rondo complex...

AK


sinus,

They did play together in Chicago...


bob


.

Well at least Rondo has a championship under his belt and just about everyone that mentions him always talks about his basketball IQ.  

Players say he is a great teammate (except for Ray Allen who has his own set of issues)  Coaches say he is a coach on the floor (except for Rick)

Butt-ler seems to piss everyone off and is void as a winner.  No hardware.

Thank you. I have no idea what the Rondo “complex”is but i do know Rondo called him out in Chicago for some of the same crap and his handling of the younger players. Butlers nothing like Rondo but if he was he’d be a better teammate.
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Re: Jimmy Butler challenging Brett Brown, 76ers' offensive system

Post by kdp59 on Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:17 am

not sure what Butlers thinking here?

maybe he wants to end up with LeBron and Anthony Davis at the Lakers or something?
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Re: Jimmy Butler challenging Brett Brown, 76ers' offensive system

Post by bobheckler on Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:51 am

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-jimmy-butler-disrespectful-interaction-210235670.html


Report: After Jimmy Butler’s ‘disrespectful’ interaction with Brett Brown, concern about Butler’s future in Philadelphia



Dan Feldman,NBC Sports
Fri, Jan 4 5:57 PM PST



Jimmy Butler joined the 76ers trying to repair his reputation after his Timberwolves tenure ended tumultuously.

This won’t help.

Upset with his role in the offense, Butler is reportedly challenging Philadelphia coach Brett Brown.

Ramona Shelburne and Adrian Wojnarowski of ESPN:

Butler has been vocal in his contesting of Brown and his system, including a recent film session in Portland that some witnesses considered “disrespectful” and beyond normal player-coach discourse. Brown has told people within the organization that he had no issues with that exchange and considered it within the confines of the relationship that he’s developed with Butler, sources said.

Butler has expressed a desire to teammates that he hopes to play in more traditional pick-and-roll and isolation sets, rather than trying to find his place in the Sixers free-flowing offense, league sources said.

Butler’s sluggish assimilation into the Sixers environment is causing some concern about his long-term viability and fit with the organization, league sources said.


This set of facts isn’t terribly distressesful on its own. Many players struggle to adapt to a new system, especially one with as much high-end talent as the 76ers have. Talking with the coach and general management about it is a productive step. “Disrespectful” can be in the eye of the beholder, and the person supposedly disrespected is saying he didn’t feel that way.

But the fact that this has leaked should set off alarms. That means the problems have reached a certain level of significance.

The tricky part: It’s unclear who leaked this and why.

This could be the 76ers trying to warn Butler he’s going too far/depress demand for him in free agency next summer. This could be Butler sending a warning shot he is unhappy/might leave. This could be someone in the organization sympathetic to Brown or upset with Butler trying to protect the coach at Butler’s expense.

It could be some combination of those ideas or others.

What’s clearer: Butler hasn’t meshed seamlessly in Philadelphia. He hasn’t meshed seamlessly anywhere.

He had problems with teammates in Minnesota (most notably Karl-Anthony Towns and Andrew Wiggins) and Chicago (most notably Derrick Rose and Joakim Noah), but he has also clashed with all his NBA coaches – Fred Hoiberg of course, even Tom Thibodeau and now Brown. Butler doesn’t fear conflict. He invites it. That sometimes makes others uncomfortable.

Thibodeau appreciated it. Hoiberg didn’t. We’ll see how Brown responds.

Unlike Hoiberg but like Thibodeau, Brown has spent a lot of time coaching NBA players. I suspect Brown will accept Butler’s intensity during a film session as long as it stems from Butler’s desire to win and Butler maintains that intensity in games.

But can Brown adjust his offense to maximize Butler, Ben Simmons and Joel Embiid? That’s no easy task. It wasn’t easy with just Simmons and Embiid, and Butler adds further complications. But this is the challenge of many contending teams – multiple stars used to dominating the ball adjusting to new roles. It doesn’t help that Embiid openly says he dislikes shooting 3-pointers, and Simmons is clearly even more averse to long-distance shots. That narrows Brown’s possible solutions.

Still, several months remain the season. There’s plenty of time for everyone to find a happy medium. The 76ers can still offer Butler the most money next summer, and they obviously acquired him intent on re-signing him.

It’s tough to tell whether this is just reasonable turbulence on a long flight together or early signs of a crash landing between Butler and Philadelphia. The former seems more likely, but the latter is terrifyingly possible.


bob


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Re: Jimmy Butler challenging Brett Brown, 76ers' offensive system

Post by bobheckler on Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:53 am

And now the counterpoint:

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/brown-butler-wasnt-disrespectful-questioning-role-004612092--nba.html



Brown: Butler wasn't disrespectful when questioning role



The Associated Press  The Associated Press 15 hours ago




LOS ANGELES, CA - JANUARY 1: Jimmy Butler #23 of the Philadelphia 76ers looks on against the LA Clippers on January 1, 2019 at STAPLES Center in Los Angeles, California. (Photo by Chris Elise/NBAE via Getty Images)



PHILADELPHIA (AP) -- Philadelphia coach Brett Brown denied a report that Jimmy Butler was disrespectful while questioning his role in the 76ers offense.

A report published on Friday said that Butler recently challenged Brown in a disrespectful way and wants to be utilized differently in the coach's offensive scheme.

Brown dismissed the report before Saturday's game against the Dallas Mavericks.

''I didn't feel like any of that crossed the line,'' Brown said. ''He's vocal. He's all in and he has opinions, but it's instigated by me. None of this should surprise anybody. He's got opinions. He wants to be heard. And he should be heard.''

Butler was not available for comment, and the Sixers said he would not play Saturday night due to an upper respiratory infection.

Philadelphia acquired Butler, a four-time All-Star, last month with an eye on making a run to the NBA championship. But meshing Butler with stars Ben Simmons and Joel Embiid hasn't always been easy - which Brown acknowledged.

''There's nobody trying to figure this out more than I am,'' Brown said.

Butler's contention is that he would like to be used more in pick-and-roll or isolation situations offensively, but those aren't hallmarks of Brown's offense.

''You can't always win on your own terms,'' Brown said.

Brown said that he would like to accommodate Butler's request as much as he can without completely altering his system and what he thinks will work for the 76ers' other stars.

''The team part of this is my true north,'' he said.

The 76ers are 16-8 since acquiring Butler from the Minnesota Timberwolves in November.


bob


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Re: Jimmy Butler challenging Brett Brown, 76ers' offensive system

Post by mrkleen09 on Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:54 am

Inmates running the asylum.
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Re: Jimmy Butler challenging Brett Brown, 76ers' offensive system

Post by wideclyde on Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:37 pm

Butler's actions in Philly are certainly a reason why Ainge has not done much of anything to acquire this guy.

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Re: Jimmy Butler challenging Brett Brown, 76ers' offensive system

Post by worcester on Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:30 pm

I found the quote by Embiid curiuos:

"that's my same face I had surgery on."

Does he have another face?

That reminds me of a comment I would like to make to someone some day.

"There's only two things I don't like about you. Your face."
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Re: Jimmy Butler challenging Brett Brown, 76ers' offensive system

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