POST GAME ORLANDO - AWAY

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Re: POST GAME ORLANDO - AWAY

Post by bobheckler on Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:40 pm

Ktronic1 wrote:
dboss wrote:Kyrie visibly upset with Hayward.  Not sure why. No one got open except fot Tatum.

If they had run what was said to be the 2 OTHER options- Al or Kyrie, they’d had a much better chance of succeeding. No way does Kyrie not touch the ball in that situation (unless Al got open).
Tatum’s fade away in the corner was low percentage and in my opinion the worst of the 3 options.


ktronic,


Mamba Mentality at its worst.


bob


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Re: POST GAME ORLANDO - AWAY

Post by Ktronic1 on Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:42 pm

At this point, I think most of Haywards problems are in his head.
I feel that the team should further limited his minutes for the remainder and give those additional minutes to Brown and Tatum.
Maybe Next year Hayward comes back as the Hayward we all know and love.
Again,I cannot over emphasis the fact that on a game to game basis, outside of Kyrie, we don’t know what we are going to get from anyone else. That’s a major problem that you cannot win with.
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Re: POST GAME ORLANDO - AWAY

Post by Ktronic1 on Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:49 pm

bobheckler wrote:
Ktronic1 wrote:
dboss wrote:Kyrie visibly upset with Hayward.  Not sure why. No one got open except fot Tatum.

If they had run what was said to be the 2 OTHER options- Al or Kyrie, they’d had a much better chance of succeeding. No way does Kyrie not touch the ball in that situation (unless Al got open).
Tatum’s fade away in the corner was low percentage and in my opinion the worst of the 3 options.


ktronic,


Mamba Mentality at its worst.


bob


.
Not sure what that means but I have no problem with the way Kyrie is thinking. (What would Garnett have felt and said in a similar situation) He’s right in what he is saying. Maybe he shouldn’t call out his teammates to the media but there is no excuse for the way we have been playing especially against sub 500 teams. No, they didnt lose the game on that last play. As you said, They lost it way before that but that last play had to be one of the dumbest this year. Some of these guys need a kick in the ass and Kyrie has the cache. He, in my option should be the one.
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Re: POST GAME ORLANDO - AWAY

Post by cowens/oldschool on Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:59 pm

bobheckler wrote:
Ktronic1 wrote:
dboss wrote:Kyrie visibly upset with Hayward.  Not sure why. No one got open except fot Tatum.

If they had run what was said to be the 2 OTHER options- Al or Kyrie, they’d had a much better chance of succeeding. No way does Kyrie not touch the ball in that situation (unless Al got open).
Tatum’s fade away in the corner was low percentage and in my opinion the worst of the 3 options.


ktronic,


Mamba Mentality at its worst.


bob


.

I want him to prove me wrong, but he’s not Paul Pierce like at end game situations yet....
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Re: POST GAME ORLANDO - AWAY

Post by Ktronic1 on Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:53 pm

cowens/oldschool wrote:
bobheckler wrote:
Ktronic1 wrote:
dboss wrote:Kyrie visibly upset with Hayward.  Not sure why. No one got open except fot Tatum.

If they had run what was said to be the 2 OTHER options- Al or Kyrie, they’d had a much better chance of succeeding. No way does Kyrie not touch the ball in that situation (unless Al got open).
Tatum’s fade away in the corner was low percentage and in my opinion the worst of the 3 options.


ktronic,


Mamba Mentality at its worst.


bob


.

I want him to prove me wrong, but he’s not Paul Pierce like at end game situations yet....

Christmas Day vs. 76’ers 2018 ———Game 7 Cleve-GSW 2016.
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Re: POST GAME ORLANDO - AWAY

Post by dboss on Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:10 pm

All you can hope for in that situation is an open look.

Kyrie never moved. He just stood there the whole time. What the hell was Hayward to do?

Our #1 guy was a stiff and our #2 guy at least got a shot off that could have went. It was a shot he has nailed many times.

Kyrie had no business complaing about GH. All this talk about young guys vs the veterans like the vets are the only ones who play hard all game is BS.

Too much finger pointing and Brad needs to step up and get more control.

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Re: POST GAME ORLANDO - AWAY

Post by gyso on Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:43 pm

Dboss,

I agree, Kyrie never moved. We only have five seconds to get the ball inbounds. Kyrie should have started his move at two, but he just stood there the whole time.

At three, Hayward passes to Tatum, who got off a good enough shot, considering that time was short.

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Re: POST GAME ORLANDO - AWAY

Post by Ktronic1 on Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:04 pm

dboss wrote:All you can hope for in that situation is an open look.

Kyrie never moved.  He just stood there the whole time.  What the hell was Hayward to do?

Our #1 guy was a stiff and our #2 guy at least got a shot off that could have went.  It was a shot he has nailed many times.

Kyrie had no business complaing about GH. All this talk about young guys vs the veterans like the vets are the only ones who play hard all game is BS.

Too much finger pointing and Brad needs to step up and get more control.  

Couldn’t disagree more. Are you saying that that was Gordons only option? Kyrie was not supposed to come to the ball. They explained how the the play was supposed to had been run.
That was not a good percentage shot. He was fading away. He hasn’t hit many like that.
And, that particular game wasn’t about playing hard. It was about playing smart.
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Re: POST GAME ORLANDO - AWAY

Post by swish on Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:34 pm

With only 2 veteran players putting up leadership type numbers (Irving and Morris) - a lot of responsibility is falling on the shouders of the kids - why not give them a chance over the second half of the seaon to see if they are up to the task - because I recall all the hoopla on this forum about these kids being the foundation of a lengthy dynasty - and there is still plenty of time for Danny to make moves in the future should he decide to take this team in a different direction next year.

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Re: POST GAME ORLANDO - AWAY

Post by swish on Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:43 pm


The beauty of the 2nd guess opinion is that it is ALWAYS assumed to be a better option when you are trying to convert on paper a loss into a win.

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Re: POST GAME ORLANDO - AWAY

Post by Ktronic1 on Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:08 pm

swish wrote:With only 2 veteran players putting up leadership type numbers (Irving and Morris) - a lot of responsibility is falling on the shouders of the kids - why not give them a chance over the second half of the seaon to see if they are up to the task - because I recall all the hoopla on this forum about these kids being the foundation of a lengthy dynasty - and there is still plenty of time for Danny to make moves in the future should he decide to take this team in a different direction next year.

  swish
 
I thought we were trying to win a title?
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Re: POST GAME ORLANDO - AWAY

Post by dboss on Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:21 pm

Ktronic1 wrote:
dboss wrote:All you can hope for in that situation is an open look.

Kyrie never moved.  He just stood there the whole time.  What the hell was Hayward to do?

Our #1 guy was a stiff and our #2 guy at least got a shot off that could have went.  It was a shot he has nailed many times.

Kyrie had no business complaing about GH. All this talk about young guys vs the veterans like the vets are the only ones who play hard all game is BS.

Too much finger pointing and Brad needs to step up and get more control.  

Couldn’t disagree more. Are you saying that that was Gordons only option? Kyrie was not supposed to come to the ball. They explained how the the play was supposed to had been run.
That was not a good percentage shot. He was fading away. He hasn’t hit many like that.
And, that particular game wasn’t about playing hard. It was about playing smart.

Ktronic Disagreement is good.   I disagree with your disagreement.    I went back and watched those final 2.9 seconds over and over again in slow motion.

A couple of things to consider.  The way Boston set that play up you can see the defender did an excellent job shielding Hayward.    It was a stack 3 set with Morris and Tatum at each end and Horford in the middle. Tatum curled around the double screen while Morris screened for Al to pop out.  I counted and Hayward held that ball for almost 4 seconds and Tatum was open already as Al was just popping.  If you look at the clip you cannot even see Hayward and I do not think he could see Al.  That 5 second clock is not forgiving.   They had no more timeouts and had to make a good pass.  He did that.  Even if the ball went to Al It would still be a timing issue to get the ball over to Irving for a desperation shot.  Irving was guarded closely.  The screen immediately freed up Tatum.    I think Gordon made the right pass at that moment.  Kobe Bryant was not in uniform.  There was no Mamba mentality at work.  It was a very difficult play to execute.  Tatum took the shot off of a clean feed from Hayward.  I hope Tatum has the balls to take the next one too given the opportunity.  And I hope that Hayward does not second guess himself because he made the right play
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Re: POST GAME ORLANDO - AWAY

Post by swish on Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:30 pm

Ktronic1 wrote:
swish wrote:With only 2 veteran players putting up leadership type numbers (Irving and Morris) - a lot of responsibility is falling on the shouders of the kids - why not give them a chance over the second half of the seaon to see if they are up to the task - because I recall all the hoopla on this forum about these kids being the foundation of a lengthy dynasty - and there is still plenty of time for Danny to make moves in the future should he decide to take this team in a different direction next year.

  swish
 
I thought we were trying to win a title?

We are - and should keep trying - but it's just possible that this team (becuse of it's youth) does not yet have the game savvy to compete at the highest level. Time will tell.

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Re: POST GAME ORLANDO - AWAY

Post by Ktronic1 on Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:17 pm

swish wrote:
Ktronic1 wrote:
swish wrote:With only 2 veteran players putting up leadership type numbers (Irving and Morris) - a lot of responsibility is falling on the shouders of the kids - why not give them a chance over the second half of the seaon to see if they are up to the task - because I recall all the hoopla on this forum about these kids being the foundation of a lengthy dynasty - and there is still plenty of time for Danny to make moves in the future should he decide to take this team in a different direction next year.

  swish
 
I thought we were trying to win a title?

We are - and should keep trying - but it's just possible that this team (becuse of it's youth) does not yet have the game savvy to compete at the highest level. Time will tell.

 swish

I think they do. The roles even at this late date have not been clearly defined. If they can do that before...than I think were in business
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Re: POST GAME ORLANDO - AWAY

Post by Ktronic1 on Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:27 pm

dboss wrote:
Ktronic1 wrote:
dboss wrote:All you can hope for in that situation is an open look.

Kyrie never moved.  He just stood there the whole time.  What the hell was Hayward to do?

Our #1 guy was a stiff and our #2 guy at least got a shot off that could have went.  It was a shot he has nailed many times.

Kyrie had no business complaing about GH. All this talk about young guys vs the veterans like the vets are the only ones who play hard all game is BS.

Too much finger pointing and Brad needs to step up and get more control.  

Couldn’t disagree more. Are you saying that that was Gordons only option? Kyrie was not supposed to come to the ball. They explained how the the play was supposed to had been run.
That was not a good percentage shot. He was fading away. He hasn’t hit many like that.
And, that particular game wasn’t about playing hard. It was about playing smart.

Ktronic Disagreement is good.   I disagree with your disagreement.    I went back and watched those final 2.9 seconds over and over again in slow motion.

A couple of things to consider.  The way Boston set that play up you can see the defender did an excellent job shielding Hayward.    It was a stack 3 set with Morris and Tatum at each end and Horford in the middle. Tatum curled around the double screen while Morris screened for Al to pop out.  I counted and Hayward held that ball for almost 4 seconds and Tatum was open already as Al was just popping.  If you look at the clip you cannot even see Hayward and I do not think he could see Al.  That 5 second clock is not forgiving.   They had no more timeouts and had to make a good pass.  He did that.  Even if the ball went to Al It would still be a timing issue to get the ball over to Irving for a desperation shot.  Irving was guarded closely.  The screen immediately freed up Tatum.    I think Gordon made the right pass at that moment.  Kobe Bryant was not in uniform.  There was no Mamba mentality at work.  It was a very difficult play to execute.  Tatum took the shot off of a clean feed from Hayward.  I hope Tatum has the balls to take the next one too given the opportunity.  And I hope that Hayward does not second guess himself because he made the right play

Dboss,
I see some of what you’re saying but i too watched it over twice. I didn’t quite get to 4 secs before Hayward chucked it toward Tatum. Also, Hayward is 6-8 and I don’t see how you or i can see or not see what he can or cannot see at that point. Tatum should’ve taken the shot. He had no choice at that point but it didn’t have very much of a chance of going in.
I will go back and look again because from what I could see, getting it to Irving was still a possibility. I don’t know where Kobe comes into this but based on everything I saw, this was a bad out of bounds end of game play. However, I think we all agree that it shouldnt have come to that.
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Re: POST GAME ORLANDO - AWAY

Post by dboss on Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:49 pm

Ktronic, I think they wanted to get it to AH and then over to Irving.  Not a lot of time to do that.  Irving can make last second deep balls but strangely he seemed more like a decoy in the play.  It never should have come down to this.  

It was going be a tough shot to make in any case.

I think if you want Irving to get the ball you could have put him in the stack.  He is very good over on that right baseline.  

I do appreciate your consideration.  I think everybody was ticked off losing a winnable game.
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Re: POST GAME ORLANDO - AWAY

Post by Ktronic1 on Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:03 pm

dboss wrote:Ktronic, I think they wanted to get it to AH and then over to Irving.  Not a lot of time to do that.  Irving can make last second deep balls but strangely he seemed more like a decoy in the play.  It never should have come down to this.  

It was going be a tough shot to make in any case.

I think if you want Irving to get the ball you could have put him in the stack.  He is very good over on that right baseline.  

I do appreciate your consideration.  I think everybody was ticked off losing a winnable game.

Yeah its very hard losing games like this. I watched again and you’re points are well taken.
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Re: POST GAME ORLANDO - AWAY

Post by NYCelt on Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:45 pm

Kyrie is off base here IMHO.

Hayward went where he had to.

Also, Irving's post-game comments about the young players not knowing what it takes to execute at championship caliber level. Throwing a flag and calling bullsh*t on Kyrie here. Funny, the exact same guys executed well enough last season, with him and Hayward sitting in chairs, to get within shooting distance of the finals. They've been at least this far already. No, Uncle, I don't think that's the problem. Never bought that argument anyway.

Wanna' be a leader Kyrie? This is not the approach you take.
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Re: POST GAME ORLANDO - AWAY

Post by cowens/oldschool on Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:55 pm

NYCelt wrote:Kyrie is off base here IMHO.

Hayward went where he had to.

Also, Irving's post-game comments about the young players not knowing what it takes to execute at championship caliber level. Throwing a flag and calling bullsh*t on Kyrie here. Funny, the exact same guys executed well enough last season, with him and Hayward sitting in chairs, to get within shooting distance of the finals. They've been at least this far already. No, Uncle, I don't think that's the problem. Never bought that argument anyway.

Wanna' be a leader Kyrie? This is not the approach you take.
+1
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Re: POST GAME ORLANDO - AWAY

Post by cowens/oldschool on Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:15 am

Odd how we play some of our best games without Kyrie....
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Re: POST GAME ORLANDO - AWAY

Post by swish on Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:06 am

I've always been partial to guys that lead by example - guys like Hondo and the Yankee Clipper -  to name just a couple - but I guess that sometimes a little club house fire, without specifically pointing fingers, can serve as a wakeup call.

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