RW III will play big Minutes

Bigs that can defend out to the perimeter are few and far between.  Bigs that are help defenders are defensive anchors.  Bigs that can defend in the post man on man can shut down post scoring by the opponent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0Egew_e31Q

The reason why I am posting this is because of all the VP hype.  I think VP can help this team but if you overlook what we have in RW you may overlook the talent level.

Dboss,

Please define "big minutes".


bob


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Well I’m a tad skeptical of Mr. Robert Williams, but certainly do hope he consistently plays big minutes because that will mean Brad trusts his understanding of the game and his mental mistakes will be much fewer this season.

dboss you and I are on the same page it seems, when it comes to our bench up front.

I am wishing for Rob W to  make the next step  and be one of our rotational bigs this coming season. It would have been nice to see how he played against Poirier in summer league, but  Poiroer didn't play.

my money will be on Rob over Poirier though come the regular season

time will tell of course and maybe all the hype about Piorier will end being true. But it seems earlier familiar to the hype around another international player a couples seasons back.




fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice........don't get fooled again as a past President once said!!

kdp59 wrote:dboss you and I are on the same page it seems, when it comes to our bench up front.

I am wishing for Rob W to  make the next step  and be one of our rotational bigs this coming season. It would have been nice to see how he played against Poirier in summer league, but  Poiroer didn't play.

my money will be on Rob over Poirier though come the regular season

time will tell of course and maybe all the hype about Piorier will end being true. But it seems earlier familiar to the hype around another international player a couples seasons back.




fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice........don't get fooled again as a past President once said!!

      kdp59 seems to me that you like to act as a troll, but that's up to you .Why don't you say that Faverani had a serious knee injury and when the season started ,people were talking about a possible rookie of the year, The Celtics gave up on him because he was lazy and went to Spain to have a rehab on the knee and instead spent the time on the beaches drinking and partying.

bobheckler wrote:Dboss,

Please define "big minutes".


bob

Bob That was my version of hype...Big minutes!

I think Kanter logs around 23 MPG.  I think he will be better defensively but it is hard to teach an old dog new tricks.  Kanter is not a rim protector, he is not a good P and R defender and he cannot step out to the perimeter to defend.  That is going to impact the minutes that he gets on the court.

I think RW gets 10-12 minutes at the 5 and another 5-6 at the 4.  

I think VP logs around 14 per game at the 5 but he cannot play the 4.

I posted the highlight video on Williams because it shows things that he can do defensively that are far superior to anything I have seen from Kanter and VP.  

None of our true centers is a proven shooter from away from the basket but I think Kanter is the most skilled offensively.  I think he will be able to extend out to the circle and also the elbows to make some shots.

One thing seems pretty certain.  There are backup minutes at center to be had.

Guys like RW and VP need to earn those minutes and there is nothing wrong with a little competition.

Each of the centers brings something different to the table.  Kanter is a proven high end rebounder and post scorer.  VP can find shots when playing in the post and he can run the floor.  RW looks to me like the better defender with the speed and quickness to defend away from the basket and is a legit rim protector.  All of these guys add value to the Celtics.

I cannot honestly pick who will be the primary BU to Kanter.  I believe both VP and RW will serve in that capacity because Kanter is not a guy who is going to play big minutes.

International, once again you have a real knack for non US players and saw the connection between VP and Celtics a while back.   I have not seen enough of VP at this point.  He like every Celtics gets my support.  I have a clear preference for Williams but VP will have more than an opportunity to find his place in the peaking order.

I do not think KDP59 is a troll.  I think that characterization is a bit harsh

In Internet slang, a troll is a person who starts quarrels or upsets people on the Internet to distract and sow discord by posting inflammatory and digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into displaying  emotional responses and normalizing tangential discussion, whether for the troll's amusement or a specific gain.

dboss wrote:

bobheckler wrote:Dboss,

Please define "big minutes".


bob

Bob That was my version of hype...Big minutes!

I think Kanter logs around 23 MPG.  I think he will be better defensively but it is hard to teach an old dog new tricks.  Kanter is not a rim protector, he is not a good P and R defender and he cannot step out to the perimeter to defend.  That is going to impact the minutes that he gets on the court.

I think RW gets 10-12 minutes at the 5 and another 5-6 at the 4.  

I think VP logs around 14 per game at the 5 but he cannot play the 4.

I posted the highlight video on Williams because it shows things that he can do defensively that are far superior to anything I have seen from Kanter and VP.  

None of our true centers is a proven shooter from away from the basket but I think Kanter is the most skilled offensively.  I think he will be able to extend out to the circle and also the elbows to make some shots.

Dboss,

Thanks for the clarification.  I didn't realize you were just teeing up the ball for yourself.  

My pre-preseason predictions are that Kanter plays closer to 24-25 mpg (not too far off from your 23mpg), Poirier will get 15-16mpg (about what Theis got and, also, not far from your prediction) but I think Williams gets less @ 5 than you predict.  A lot less.  I think with 2 legit centers he gets 6-7mpg or so at 5 and maybe that again at 4.  Theis will play more 4 but a few mpg @ 5.  There's minutes for Williams at 4 but he lacks the shooting (yet!) for extended minutes there.  If he logs the total number of minutes you predict I predict those extra minutes will be @ 4, where we are very thin and he has the athleticism to defend at the arc.

Williams only played 380 minutes last year.  16mpg X 70 games = 1120 minutes.  That's almost triple and tripling a player's minutes is fatigueing especially if he is playing against monsters like AD, Embiid, Drummond and other legit NBA 5s.  Horford didn't like it and Williams is the same height and weight as Horford.  If Williams plays 15mpg at any position he should consider that a major career achievement.




bob



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Bob

Not having the advantage of actually seeing VP play within Brad's system we can really only speculate about how he fits and how his rotation minutes will add up.

Williams is 21 and turns 22 in October.  He is a high end athlete that plays with a lot of energy.  I do not think he gets fatigued playing 15-16 MPG.  If he is working on his strength and conditioning his stamina should not be an issue.  If he does not get many minutes at the 5 it will not be because he is tired.  

VP has the advantage of experience over RW but that is not the same thing as upside.  With both AH and AB gone Williams just looks to me like the better defender.  I think that gets him more minutes and I also saw his ability to pass the ball and make quick reads on offense.  

Both Williams and VP deserve an opportunity to play.  

Neither one of these players has earned the role of primary BU center.  

I do not think that either player will be focal points on offense.  My guess is that they will make their bones on the defensive side of the ball and on the glass.  On offense the expectation will be related to how they can facilitate by screening and moving the ball out of a high post offense.  VP has some post scoring abilities and Williams remains in a developmental stage.  

Let the games begin.

International,

not trying to piss you off or anything, I just have a different opinion on players who are un-proven at the NBA level. I do admit to having an anti- homer bias as well, which I  define as "an over inflated opinion on a player or coach that outpaces anything they have proven in the past".

so yeah, I tend to give an alternate view of the caution that maybe should be present about certain players.


but as far a being a troll......I think Rosalie may agree with you on that one, so I present a new picture I just took!!

kdp59 wrote:International,

not trying to piss you off or anything, I just have a different opinion on players who are un-proven at the NBA level. I do admit to having an anti- homer bias as well, which I  define as "an over inflated opinion on a player or coach that outpaces anything they have proven in the past".

so yeah, I tend to give an alternate view of the caution that maybe should be present about certain players.


but as far a being a troll......I think Rosalie may agree with you on that one, so I present a new picture I just took!!

Kdp,

Nice loincloth.  You going to Burning Man?


bob


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don't peek!

fixed it

kdp and dboss .
This is going to be my last comment on the matter,this situation of being in an argument every day for the same reason is not what I wanted when I came to the forum, I am the kind of person that always see the glass half full instead of half empty ,if you do not have faith in your players , that's up to you. see you during the season and until them , I am out of here.i leave you with this... Red Auerbach once went to watch Dave Cowens in a game in college and after only 10 minutes he was going to leave the court, somebody asked him, Why are you leaving after only 10 minutes? Auerbach answered ..I don't need more time, I saw what I needed to know.

International

I apologize if I appeared to be argumentative.  I thought we were just having a discussion.

Not sure why you think I do not have faith in our players.  

I  know for certain that when the Celtics take the court for the 2019 season I will be rooting for the team and every prayer on it including the ones that I do not know that much about.  If they wear the green I'm rolling with them.

This thread is my over-hyped version of Robert Williams.  But truth be told, young Robert is as raw as fish at a sushi bar.   Nevertheless I believe he can become a very good player for the Celtics.

I want to see him and Vincent Poirier get out there and compete.  I want to see them help my team win.  We are going to need both of them and both of them bring value to the team.

kdp,

That troll is outstanding.

Regards

kdp59 wrote:International,

not trying to piss you off or anything, I just have a different opinion on players who are un-proven at the NBA level. I do admit to having an anti- homer bias as well, which I  define as "an over inflated opinion on a player or coach that outpaces anything they have proven in the past".

so yeah, I tend to give an alternate view of the caution that maybe should be present about certain players.


but as far a being a troll......I think Rosalie may agree with you on that one, so I present a new picture I just took!!

It's ok to voice an opinion contrary to the party line ( in many cases it's the hometown fans) even when it does create some passionate responses. It can sometimes make for a more lively conversation.

swish

And where does a proven NBA player like Theis fit in? I see him getting more minutes than Poirier.

mrkleen09 wrote:And where does a proven NBA player like Theis fit in?  I see him getting more minutes than Poirier.

Good point

Theis is the one big on the team that will let Boston play with a small ball center.  It is a fairly reasonable assumption that Brad will play some small ball.

Theis had a 102.6 defensive rating playing almost 14 MPG.  He also shot 38.8% from deep albeit on a limited number of opportunities.  None of our other centers have a proven track record for that skill.

Theis is the only player I can look at on our roster and can say "he's a 4".  We got bigs that can go to the arc on defense but not on offense (Robert Williams), we got tweeners who can go to the arc on offense but are vulnerable on defense in the paint (Grant Williams, Jayson Tatum) but Daniel Theis is the only one I see who can shoot from range, can go out to the arc on defense and can also defend a legit NBA 4 in the paint.  Our lack of depth at that position suggests he will be playing much heavier minutes than last year.  Maybe not 30mpg,  maybe not even 25, but I'd be surprised if he played under 20.


bob



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dbrown4 wrote:I believe the word you are looking for MrKleen is convivial!

db

Bob, Theis is right for the 4, and I can't imagine Brad overlooking his talents at that position.

worcester wrote:Bob, Theis is right for the 4, and I can't imagine Brad overlooking his talents at that position.

Theis strength is defense, RW can defend better as a 4 or 5 than Theis in my opinion, RW can be a double digit rebounder if given enough minutes at the 4-5. Theis definitely has better offense at this stage, G Will also can add a very physical presence.

cowens/oldschool wrote:

worcester wrote:Bob, Theis is right for the 4, and I can't imagine Brad overlooking his talents at that position.

Theis strength is defense, RW can defend better as a 4 or 5 than Theis in my opinion, RW can be a double digit rebounder if given enough minutes at the 4-5. Theis definitely has better offense at this stage, G Will also can add a very physical presence.

Cow,

Theis' strength is defense, HOWEVER, he is also a floor spacer on offense and RW is not. Putting RW out there with Kanter or Poirier (although it looks like Poirier might have a decent mid-range shot) would allow their defense to sag and take away entry lanes for passes to Kanter and RW. Theis shot 38.8% from 3 last season. He didn't take many, but I predict that will change this year because he is the only floor-spacing big we have.

There are two ends of the court to be considered, RW is not a 4 on offense and, unfortunately, 2 of the other bigs aren't either.


bob



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