"Celtics Built for the Wars Inside"

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Post by steve3344 Sun Aug 08, 2010 2:09 am

http://www.celticsblog.com/2010/8/7/1610685/celtics-built-for-the-wars-inside?ref=yahoo

Celtics Built for the Wars Inside

by Greg Payne

Danny Ainge's search for frontcourt help this offseason was most likely spurred on by two simple facts. First, his starting center, Kendrick Perkins, would be out for a considerable portion of the season after tearing his right ACL in Game 6 of the 2010 NBA Finals. Second, his team was the second worst rebounding team during the regular season and the fourth worst rebounding team in the playoffs last year. All season, rebounding was a glaring weakness for the Celtics, and the picture was painted clearest during the NBA Finals, when the Lakers out-rebounded the Celtics over the course of the seven-games series, 297-265.

While many things changed for the Celtics once the postseason got under way, their rebounding woes remained. As a team, the C's averaged 38.6 rebounds per game during the regular season, and saw that number increase only slightly to 39.1 over the course of the playoffs. As for the Lakers, their regular season average of 44.3 boards per game (second in the NBA during the regular season), dipped slightly to 42.9 in the playoffs, most likely due to Andrew Bynum's knee injury.

So, Danny Ainge went out and acquired the 6'11 Jermaine O'Neal, and his 7'1 namesake, Shaquille. He also signed the 7'0 Semih Erden as added insurance.

If the Celtics and Lakers do in fact meet in the Finals once again next season, these additions should help Boston combat LA's considerable size and length. However, next season, LA's frontline won't be the only one the Celtics will have to worry about.

The Celtics ranked sixth in rebounding amongst Eastern Conference teams in the playoffs last season, behind the Chicago Bulls, the Orlando Magic, the Atlanta Hawks, the Cleveland Cavaliers, and the Milwaukee Bucks. They came in ahead of the Miami Heat and the Charlotte Bobcats.

In terms of frontlines, as of right now, Charlotte's isn't overly daunting, and neither is Cleveland's, although Anderson Varejao always seems to make his presence felt under the glass, and J.J. Hickson could finally have a breakout season next year.

Now think about the other teams. Chicago led the league in rebounds during the regular season last year (44.54), and still averaged 41 per game during the playoffs, largely due to the production of Joakim Noah and Taj Gibson. What did the Bulls do this offseason? They signed free agent Carlos Boozer, who, while slightly undersized at 6'9, still averaged 11.2 rebounds in 78 games last season, and boasts a 10.2 rebounds-per-game average for his career. The move gives the Bulls a considerable one-two punch on the glass in Boozer and Noah, and on top of that, their defense in general should be much improved under first-year coach Tom Thibodeau.

While the Magic haven't exactly made waves this offseason in terms of personnel changes, the club still sports one of the league's premiere rebounders in Dwight Howard (13.2 rebounds per game last season; 12.7 rebounds per game for his career), whose rebounding and defense alone make his team's frontline formidable.

Similar to the Magic, the Hawks have yet to change things too dramatically, but the power forward/center combination of Josh Smith and Al Horford will still be enough to keep them in the middle of the pack in terms of total rebounds per game next season. While Atlanta wasn't a superior rebounding team by any means last year, it was still ahead of Boston, and the Celtics' newest additions could help to turn the tide on that stat. Also, we know the Celtics have struggled against the younger, athletic teams like the Hawks, but having a bigger, stronger frontline could take away rebounding opportunities for Atlanta, which could also limit its fast break attempts.

As for the Bucks, who finished seventh in the league in rebounds per game during the regular season last year (42.9), their rebounding numbers were nearly identical to Boston's (39.14 for MIL compared to 39.13 for BOS) in the playoffs, but that was without their leading rebounder in Andrew Bogut. Bogut will be back from that horrific arm injury he suffered late in the season, and the Bucks also added Drew Gooden.

As a quick aside, check out Milwaukee's roster. The Bucks have a ton of offensive firepower, and they'll get Michael Redd back sometime around the All-Star break. If they can play defense under Scott Skiles, look out.

And then there's Miami. As talented as it now is as a whole, the Heat's (I hate how the team's name is singular) front court isn't very overwhelming, apart from Chris Bosh. Miami added the 37-year old Juwan Howard, the 35-year old Zydrunas Illgauskas, and the 32-year old Jamaal Magloire, who's known these days as a wannabe enforcer, as opposed to a legitimate rebounder or defender. Bosh and Udonis Haslem will serve as Miami's main rebounding threats underneath, along with James, who I personally feel like might put forth his finest rebounding season yet. But in terms of interior defense, who on the Heat makes you nervous? While Boston's revamped frontline will help take away a potential edge from the teams mentioned above, it could very well serve as a necessary edge against the boys from South Beach.

The Lakers will be favored in the West once again, but they could still be upended by teams with bolstered frontlines, including Dallas (traded Erick Dampier for Tyson Chandler and locked up Brendan Haywood long term), Utah (lost Boozer, but traded for Al Jefferson to stick alongside Paul Millsap. Mehmet Okur will be returning from injury as well), San Antonio (ninth in the regular season in rebounding last year, and fourth in the playoffs. Duncan will still be Duncan, and this 6'11 kid Tiago Splitter is rumored to be The Real Deal), and Oklahoma City (acquired Cole Aldrich on draft night). Also, if Yao Ming returns healthy, the Lakers can't sweat Houston, either.

If the Celtics are to meet any of these teams in either the playoffs or the Finals, I personally feel much better about them going to war with a rotation of Kendrick Perkins (when healthy), Kevin Garnett, Jermaine O'Neal, Shaquille O'Neal, and Glen Davis, as opposed to Kendrick Perkins, Kevin Garnett, Glen Davis, Rasheed Wallace, and Shelden Williams/Brian Scalabrine. What about you?



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Post by cowens/oldschool Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:01 am

Alot of teams are going to attack Heat inside,Bosh and whoever don't scare anyone.

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Post by dboss Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:08 am

The Celtics defense the past three years under the direction of Thibideau called for sophisticated rotations that often took the Celtics out of rebounding position. I t was pretty amazing that we saw countless times where the defensive glass was unprotected, guys forgetting to put a body on the nearest opponent and this resulted in offensive rebounds for the other team.

Certainly the addition of the O'Neals will make Boston a better rebounding team but fundamentality something needs to change that takes Boston back to the basics as far as rebounding is concerned.

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Post by cowens/oldschool Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:14 am

KG's rebounding ability was the biggest difference in his game after surgery,his balance was thrown off amid all the infighting,another year after,with all the extra size and force the two O'Neals will provide can only be good for KG.

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Post by bobheckler Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:10 pm

Our frontcourt is slower and older, but it can bang.

Picture an O'Neal frontcourt (Shaq and JO). That's some serious beef on the hoof.

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Post by Sam Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:15 pm

It seemed to me that, in the latter part of last season and in the playoffs, the Celtics modified their help defense to change things up with more man-up defense. The quicker our perimeter guys become, the better that may work, and the less complex the defense will be. Down low, it's going to be a question of whether bulk or agility will win most of the rebounding battles.

One guy I wouldn't leave out of a rebounding discussion is Glen Davis. He has always been a rebounding tiger but has too often been stymied by the other team's tall timber. The tall timber will now have other Celtics to worry about under the boards, and it's conceivable Glen might benefit accordingly.

Sam


Last edited by Sam on Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Hoopdeedoo Sun Aug 08, 2010 1:08 pm

Shaq and Davis combination could be interesting. Lots of beef but I see Davis going more to his jumper and taking it to the floor as long as Shaq doesn't clog it up. He is a good rebounder and I see him benefiting as well from the new bigs.

These changes look to me like more offense than rebounding and I'm ok with that. We struggled alot last year at times to get a score. Now with one of our new bigs on the floor we get more options.

Can't wait to see Rondo's assists soar with bigs that have good hands and mechanics.
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Post by dbrown4 Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:30 am

With the Heat situation, you have to think if the lane is going to be wide open to start and there are only so many fouls to give, Bosh is probably going to be the one of the big three riding the pine with foul trouble trying to help close the lane, otherwise it will be a lot of dunk and 1's. BTW, I'll give Spoelstra until mid-season before the axe swings and Pat is back on the sidelines. No offense, I like the guy. But there is no slack in the line. Doomed to fail.

Until further evidence or notice, LeBron will still average his one foul per month.

This is, of course, against the real contenders in the league, so actually, 80-85% of Miami's games should be entertaining to watch. The remaining 15-20% will be the most entertaining since we will see the inevitable WTF looks on the SouthBeach 3, realizing you can lead a horse to water but you can't win a championship.

Celtic's should be laughing all the way to the bank v. Miami. I'm going to be stunned if Miami even makes it to the finals in the next 6 years, much less wins it all.
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Post by bobheckler Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:42 am

Sam wrote:It seemed to me that, in the latter part of last season and in the playoffs, the Celtics modified their help defense to change things up with more man-up defense. The quicker our perimeter guys become, the better that may work, and the less complex the defense will be. Down low, it's going to be a question of whether bulk or agility will win most of the rebounding battles.

One guy I wouldn't leave out of a rebounding discussion is Glen Davis. He has always been a rebounding tiger but has too often been stymied by the other team's tall timber. The tall timber will now have other Celtics to worry about under the boards, and it's conceivable Glen might benefit accordingly.

Sm

Sam,

Pursuant to your comment about Davis as a rebounder, here's his numbers per 36 minutes of play. The highlight isn't his total rebounds (they're ok but far from great), but his ratio between offensive and defensive rebounds. He attacks the offensive glass and I love it. If he continues to do that it will buy time for Shaq to get back on defense, even if he doesn't gain complete control of the ball.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/davisgl01.html


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Post by Sam Mon Aug 09, 2010 12:11 pm

Good observation, Bob. If he's playing with Shaq, I expect Glen's offensive AND defensive rebound figures to improve.

From a broader perspective, both Jermaine and Shaq should change the offensive look of the team considerably, compared with Perk. I believe we'll see better ball movement, fewer turnovers, and more successful inside passing given their surer hands.

I believe one of the vulnerabilities of the team has been having to depend on defense as its main point of difference versus opponents. How many times did they mount defensive stands without being able to score at the other end? Ray may have been the poster boy in illustrating how offensive energy was drained by the incessant pressure on the defense just to stay close. This year could see better balance between offense and defense.

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Post by sinus007 Mon Aug 09, 2010 12:29 pm

Bob,
I think that the presence of Shaq will change primary tasks for BBD. Unlike Sheed and other bigs who BBD was paired with, Shaq will spend much more time in the paint waiting for a rebound. Therefore BBD'll spend much more time farther from the hoop waiting for a long rebound and/or trying to prevent fast break.

AK
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Post by bobheckler Mon Aug 09, 2010 12:58 pm

sinus007 wrote:Bob,
I think that the presence of Shaq will change primary tasks for BBD. Unlike Sheed and other bigs who BBD was paired with, Shaq will spend much more time in the paint waiting for a rebound. Therefore BBD'll spend much more time farther from the hoop waiting for a long rebound and/or trying to prevent fast break.

AK

sinus,

I'd say it depends upon who Davis is guarding. If they have him on a big, aggressive rebounder like Boozer, he'll be closer to the basket (since that's where his man will want to hang around). If he's playing a smaller, more mobile, outside shooting player like Bargnani, then he won't.

I drool at the thought of Shaq's big body sucking the rebounds up and allowing Davis to run the break. A 290# express train...

bob

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Post by Outside Mon Aug 09, 2010 2:29 pm

After initial reluctance, I now agree that Shaq is a good addition, especially at the vet minimum, but it seems like folks here are going overboard with what he's going to bring to the team. Reading the recent comments here and on the Shaq thread, you'd think that he has a little downside or two that can be easily compensated for and huge advantages that will allow the Celtics to dominate the boards and run a fastbreak to rival the Showtime Lakers or Russell Celtics. Isn't this the same guy who a lot of people thought of last year as marginally effective and a shadow of his former self?

Like I said, I agree he's a good addition, but just askin' ...

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Post by jeb Mon Aug 09, 2010 2:37 pm

Outside

Can only speak for myself but I AM excited because I feel like we upgraded our center position with the Oneals but more specific we upgraded both our rebounding and our scoring. imho add what I feel like will be a better KG (due to regained lateral movement and yes i have had knee surgery) and I feel like the Celts are well positioned to return to the finals. I know it hypothetical but ask yourself this...if we had ONLY Jermaine to replace the fallen Perk would we have won game seven. I think we would have.

I am also excited because we kept pace with that freakshow in Miami and also with the hated lakers who had a nice offseason.

I dont expect shaq to be any better than he was ladst season But I do expect him to bang, set HARD NON MOVING picks and rebound the basketball.

And i expect Jermaine to score 12 points a game within the flow of the o.

cheers

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Post by NYCelt Mon Aug 09, 2010 4:07 pm

Outside,

I can't add much constructive to answer your question but I did want to expand on it. It doesn't seem to be just those posting here or on any op-ed boards, but a lot of the New England press that have done a similar turnaround. Last year Shaq was pure poison to the Cav's, before that he would kill the Suns and now he's our savior.

The title of this thread says we're built for the wars inside...it doesn't mention that it's the War of 1812.

Maybe this time we'll take Canada too, right after Washington gets burned again.

Regards
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Post by Sam Mon Aug 09, 2010 4:29 pm

Outside,

I believe the Celtics board fans' comments about Shaq are more well-rounded than your hyperbole would suggest. For example, I've read primarily negatives on this board about his pick-and-roll defense and his lack of mobility in general on the defensive end. Fair enough. Those were some of the same comments I recall when he was with the Cavs.

Other doubts last season included his ability to blend smoothly with Lebron. The Celtics bench, consisting of several new players this season, has no particular system into which Shaq will be forced to blend. The bench system will be shaped around the strengths of the players, including Shaq. This is just one way in which Shaq won't be force-fitted into an existing bench system.

I've stated (accurately) that the one part of Shaq's game that has suffered least (at least statistically) is his rebounds per 30 minutes; and I believe passing ability may be the last thing to go. Maybe I'm wrong, but aren't strong rebounding and outlet passing among the most important factors in facilitating uptempo offense? Do you think there's a faint possibility that the Celtics bench rebounding will improve over last year's, given Shaq's individual contributions plus the attention Shaq will draw that could open up rebounding possibilities for, as one example, Glen Davis? I've stated consistently that the main thing I'm looking to Shaq for is rebounding, rebounding, rebounding.

Moreover, I can't see the sense of pre-judging Shaq's negatives based on his past performances. His role will be different with the Celtics. The idea will be to put him and the other bench players in positions to succeed. It's an old Celtics tradition.

Finally, we're rabid Celtics fans, not spectators. We look for positives as foundations upon which to build, and we deal with challenges in as hopeful a manner as possible. It's the Celtic way.

Take care.

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Post by bobheckler Mon Aug 09, 2010 5:13 pm

Sam,

Anybody who doesn't think strong rebounding and outlet passing aren't among the most important factors in facilitating uptempo offense, or who think it's just green-goggled Celtic fanatics wishing upon a star or harkening back to the "good old days", should forward their thoughts to either:

Mr. Wesley Unseld
c/o Washington Wizards
601 F Street N.W,
Washington D.C 20004

Mr. Bill Walton
c/o Boston Celtics
226 Causeway Street
Fourth Floor
Boston, MA 02114

or

c/o Portland Trailblazers
One Center Court, Suite 200
Portland, OR 97227


I'm sure either of those two gentlemen can address their concerns to their satisfaction.

bob

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Post by NESportsfan12 Mon Aug 09, 2010 6:16 pm

NYCelt wrote:Outside,

I can't add much constructive to answer your question but I did want to expand on it. It doesn't seem to be just those posting here or on any op-ed boards, but a lot of the New England press that have done a similar turnaround. Last year Shaq was pure poison to the Cav's, before that he would kill the Suns and now he's our savior.

The title of this thread says we're built for the wars inside...it doesn't mention that it's the War of 1812.

Maybe this time we'll take Canada too, right after Washington gets burned again.

Regards

Shaq was to the Cavs' detriment because he slowed down their offense. The ball was going to him in the post more often, where it would otherwise have been swung around the perimeter, an offense that is more conducive to the Cavs' talent. Furthermore, the cavs had a better fast break game than the celtics do, so having shaq in there gummed up the works in a lot of situations. Finally, we saw pretty clearly that the Cavs seemed to just perform better without shaq in the lineup-- which may indicate intangible differences between the two teams, just as much is it may indicate a decline in Shaq's efficacy. Cross-team comparisons in these situations are dubious, at best.

The celtics don't run as much, and have suffered the past two seasons in that they haven't had a viable low post option to work the inside-outside game-- this is partly due to KG's recent favoring of his midrange game. This type of offensive scheme allows for your Ray Allens and Paul Pierces to make much more of an impact on the perimeter (see the Orlando Magic's success). It also allows KG to roam more freely on the Pick and Roll. The magic have been criticized because as good as their inside-out game is, their perimeter players cannot create their own offense. The Celtics don't have this problem at all.

I find myself rationally optimistic this year, in light of these changes. I happen to agree with Sam in that the offseason moves here will help the Celtics by providing a more balanced attack.

Time will tell, I suppose. Till then, I'll be acknowledging Shaq's decline with the hope that analogies between the Celts and Cavs are as misguided as I believe them to be.
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Post by Outside Mon Aug 09, 2010 8:21 pm

Well, that certainly got a response. LOL! I think I'll stop while I'm behind.
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Post by Sam Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:24 pm

Outside,

It was a legitimate question, obviously posed with no malice on you part. We're all sort of in the dark about how things will work out. Given that circumstance, it's understandable if our "default" is a little more positive than some.

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Post by cowens/oldschool Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:33 pm

Besides Shaq there are so many new hungry players that will also be in the mix.I want to see why Avery Bradley was rated so high coming out of high school.It would be fun to see a unit of Shaq with Baby or JO clearing the boards and outletting to a running team of Rondo/Nate,Bradley,Wafer,Quis,Hanangody,whoever can run the floor,we can send waves of players at teams,the daze of Ray doing 40 minutes best be over.I'm praying Doc realizes the benefits of limiting the starters minutes and we really use the bench.

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Post by worcester Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:48 am

To keep things simple, Shaq and Jermaine will rebound, catch the ball well, and pass well...all talents at which Perk doesn't excel.
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Post by jeb Tue Aug 10, 2010 2:06 pm

worcester

Exactly. Thus we upgrade our scoring and rebounding...we lose on d. Hopefully Perk will make it back but if he does not we are good. Better than good.
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