Back Up for PP

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Post by dboss Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:01 pm

With the Celtics waiving Rasheed wallace they essentially give up all rights to him and therefore his contract cannot be used as a barganing chip.

I have been looking at the available players at SF that are unrestricted free agents. These are players that could come in and log 12-15 MPG They include:

Larry Hughes
Javis Hayes
Rodney Carey

The veteran minimum would secure either of thse players.

I also would not mind seeing Boston bring back JR Giddens. He is also an unrestricted free agent. He did not get a chance to play much in Boston but i really liked his defensive intensity and his rebounding.

Another option may be to look at finding a BU small forward from the D league. There are some guys there that can play but need a chance.

As it stands now it looks like Daniels will BU PP and Wafer may play the 2. However I think acquiring a defensive stopper at the wing is a definite priority for Boston. As you know Doc has always emphasized that the second unit has to play defense so if any of the potential rotation players cannot play solid defense, their minutes on the court will be limited.

The interesting thing about the team is the new players that were added.

JON, Shaq, Bradley, Wafer and Harangody are 5 new players that I am anxious to see play.

The Celtics will be able to play very big, in between or go small. Their are enough options for matching up with every team as long as the bu SG/SF can be established.

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Post by cowens/oldschool Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:40 pm

I really think Harangody can play the 3,he may not be a sleek prototype 3,but either was Larry Bird.

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Post by mrkleen09 Sat Aug 14, 2010 5:44 pm

Whats wrong with Marquis Daniels?
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Post by cowens/oldschool Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:13 pm

no perimeter game,can be overpowered defensively and too fragile in general.....he did help us first 20 games,if he emerges hope I'm proven wrong.

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Post by NYCelt Sat Aug 14, 2010 11:29 pm

Daniels is the backup to Pierce.

Harangody is a 4, bound for the D league to get some playing time. He's the insurance policy to our aging vets in the front-court and possibly a replacement to Davis if he's traded or departs after this season.

By all means; please do not let us slip to Hughes on top of all the question marks we already have on this team.

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Post by dboss Sun Aug 15, 2010 10:49 am

The problem with Daniels is that he is susceptable to injuries. That was the case before he came to Boston and as we have seen he missed games against last year due to injuries.

Harangody is not quick enough to play the three spot. He is a tweener PF.

So again I must ask who can we get to play the 3 spot to BU PP and.or the often injured Daniels?

I threw Larry Hughe's name out there because he is available and I have read where Boston has some interest. I am not suggesting that he would be the right fit. What about Hayes or Carney?

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Post by cowens/oldschool Sun Aug 15, 2010 11:42 am

I agree its Daniels job to lose,however if hes injured again we obviously don't want to burn Pierce out,then that leaves Wafer,in certain matchups,Melo,Lebron,Artest; Wafer is too small.....better hope Luke can handle it,hes got to be quicker than Scal and Scal did it.

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Post by bobheckler Sun Aug 15, 2010 11:50 am

Harangody's 6'8", 250#. If he drops 10-15#, he might be able to play 3. I don't see how, at that weight, he can play 3. SF will run circles around him.

On the other hand, Ron Artest is 6'7", 250# and he plays 3. A power 3, but a 3.

One of the things that impressed me about Harangody in the summer league games was his IQ. He was in the right place at the right time most of the time. He made good shooting decisions and seemed to get himself open for his shot pretty frequently. If he can't play 3, it won't be because of his offensive range, it'll be because of his lack of athleticism and speed on defense.

bob

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Post by NYCelt Sun Aug 15, 2010 1:10 pm

dboss wrote:The problem with Daniels is that he is susceptable to injuries. That was the case before he came to Boston and as we have seen he missed games against last year due to injuries.

Harangody is not quick enough to play the three spot. He is a tweener PF.

So again I must ask who can we get to play the 3 spot to BU PP and.or the often injured Daniels?

I threw Larry Hughe's name out there because he is available and I have read where Boston has some interest. I am not suggesting that he would be the right fit. What about Hayes or Carney?

dboss

dboss,

Sorry, I didn't mean to ignore the Hayes/Carney point. It was a little late after a few beers and too much pizza. I should have stuck with less pizza and more beer.

I haven't seen much of either of those guys since their college days. If I recall correctly Hayes is a pretty good size small forward; near the size of some power forwards. I recall he can score some, but I'm not sure about defense although I do remember thinking he was fairly athletic. If he can be counted on at the defensive end of the floor he's got the size to go up against some of the relatively large and athletic small forwards we face. I also think Hayes is the better rebounder of the two. Carney is around the same size as Daniels, I think, although it's how you use what you've got that counts. I never really thought about either but to me Hayes might be an interesting fit.

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Post by cowens/oldschool Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:44 pm

bobheckler wrote:Harangody's 6'8", 250#. If he drops 10-15#, he might be able to play 3. I don't see how, at that weight, he can play 3. SF will run circles around him.

On the other hand, Ron Artest is 6'7", 250# and he plays 3. A power 3, but a 3.

One of the things that impressed me about Harangody in the summer league games was his IQ. He was in the right place at the right time most of the time. He made good shooting decisions and seemed to get himself open for his shot pretty frequently. If he can't play 3, it won't be because of his offensive range, it'll be because of his lack of athleticism and speed on defense.

bob

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Harangodys offensive game is that of a 3 that can stretch the floor and has a knack for getting his shot off inside,he ran the floor shockingly well too.He easily outplayed the Sixers 1st round draft pick,looking like the much more poised player,if Luke can translate these skills to the next level,would be a big boost and upgrade for our bench.

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Post by cowens/oldschool Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:49 pm

NYCelt wrote:Daniels is the backup to Pierce.

Harangody is a 4, bound for the D league to get some playing time. He's the insurance policy to our aging vets in the front-court and possibly a replacement to Davis if he's traded or departs after this season.

By all means; please do not let us slip to Hughes on top of all the question marks we already have on this team.


Wally Szcerbiak and Jerry Stackhouse were both 4's in college

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Post by cowens/oldschool Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:54 pm

deano did you see any summer league ball?

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Post by NYCelt Sun Aug 15, 2010 9:42 pm

cowens/oldschool wrote:deano did you see any summer league ball?

Hey Rich, I hope you're doing well and having a good summer!

Yes, I did catch some of the summer league and I liked what I saw from Harangody. I also liked what I saw of him at ND. I don't think we can use him as a 3 though, because he didn't look quick or athletic enough in college or this summer to run with many of the SFs we see around the league. Although he's on the small side for a 4 I think we'll see him get some minutes here and there behind KG and Davis. I wouldn't feel bad about him going to the D league if it gets him some quality playing time.

Just conjecture on my part, but I think he was drafted to possibly replace Davis. He could also be insurance against injury since we have an aging veteran frontcourt. My thinking is that his game appears very similar to Davis, and he does add some outside shooting on top of that otherwise similar skill set. Davis is in the last year of his contract and we already have longer term money issues. It wouldn't surprise me to see the team trade Davis for value, especially at guard, if Harangody turns out to be ready quickly and the right situation turns up to get something in return for Davis. I don't think they're going to want to be on the hook for a significant amount of time or money to Davis, and I'm thinking we'll be looking for depth at guard or small forward by mid-season. I certainly don't think the team just wants to see Davis walk after this year while we get nothing in return but the open salary. I think that if we get Perk back by late February, and he looks at all like he can handle some playing time we'll have a crowded frontcourt. In that scenario KG, J O'Neal, Davis and Harangody leave us with more than we need at power forward and a couple of pieces that could be packaged. My bet is that Davis or Harangody could go in that potential outcome.

Again, all "ifs" and guesses; but that's what we do here!

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Post by dboss Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:55 pm

I think Harangody is a basketball player. He's smart and is a hard worker. Pobably too slow to play man to man on a quick 3 but when Boston plays more zone defenses he could still get the job down.

He was a good rebounder in college. Let's see how he does against NBA players.

The Celtics are still in need of signing one more player. I am hoping that Baby is not traded. Baby hits the offensive glass real hard and brings energy to the game.

Also I think that with the Sheed retirement and the Pekins injury Baby represents that 4th big and we could ill afford to let him go.

Wafer is 6'5" and is not particularly thick enough to handle the physical playt at the SF spot. He is a shooting guard.

Looking at all that we have we are still left with PP with the questionable Daniels as the BU.

Once this issue is resolved the Celtics should be deep at every position.

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Post by sinus007 Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:07 am

Hi,
I believe MD will show up as a solid back-up for PP. Celtics will save the spot for later addition, if needed. If he doesn't they can package him with somebody for a trade.

AK
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Post by cowens/oldschool Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:19 pm

deano thanks having a very good summer,who knows?what do I know,I didn't think Keven Durant would develop into impact player.

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Post by NYCelt Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:29 pm

cowens/oldschool wrote:deano thanks having a very good summer,who knows?what do I know,I didn't think Keven Durant would develop into impact player.

...and I thought he would bulk up a little by now. Can't someone give the guy a sandwich or something?

I'll tell you one thing for sure; with every passing day I'm convinced I know less than I thought I did the day before!

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Post by bobheckler Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:03 pm

NYCelt wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:deano thanks having a very good summer,who knows?what do I know,I didn't think Keven Durant would develop into impact player.

...and I thought he would bulk up a little by now. Can't someone give the guy a sandwich or something?

I'll tell you one thing for sure; with every passing day I'm convinced I know less than I thought I did the day before!

Regards

Dean,

If you know less today than you knew the day before, then how come you're repeatedly smart enough to figure that out the next day that you were wrong yesterday?

If sophistry is the source of the word "sophisticated", then why am I not more clever here?

bob

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Post by RosalieTCeltics Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:09 pm

Still waiting for that last move Danny and Doc talked about. There really isn't much out there. I would prefer that he pass on Hughes, and from what I saw of an interview with Fernandez, this kid wants to go home, he is homesick. We would be really taking a chance with him. Anyway, I think Portland is not going to just give him away and what they want the Celtics just aren't going to give. I really would like one more shooter, it would ease some of the pressure off PP and Ray.
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Post by bobc33 Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:10 pm

"Alas, eleventy-one years is far too short a time to live among such excellent and admirable hobbits." [cheers abound.] "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

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Post by RosalieTCeltics Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:12 pm

quite poetic, if I do say so. I hope that I am part of the half that you would like to know!
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Post by tjmakz Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:17 pm

Comment from Paul Pierce today via A. Sherrod Blakely: "We're better now than we were in June. But I think we need another piece if we're going to win it all & not just get there." Paul Pierce.
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Post by NYCelt Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:25 am

bobheckler wrote:
NYCelt wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:deano thanks having a very good summer,who knows?what do I know,I didn't think Keven Durant would develop into impact player.

...and I thought he would bulk up a little by now. Can't someone give the guy a sandwich or something?

I'll tell you one thing for sure; with every passing day I'm convinced I know less than I thought I did the day before!

Regards

Dean,

If you know less today than you knew the day before, then how come you're repeatedly smart enough to figure that out the next day that you were wrong yesterday?

If sophistry is the source of the word "sophisticated", then why am I not more clever here?

bob

.

Bob,

I'm responding to give you the answer to your question in bold above.

How do I figure out I was wrong yesterday? Simple. My wife tells me.

By the way; you're plenty clever. In the modern sense, I don't see you as indulging in sophisms.

And for those playing the home version of our game...

The term sophism originated from Greek σόφισμα, sophisma, from σοφίζω, sophizo "I am wise"; confer σοφιστής, sophistēs, meaning "wise-ist, one who does wisdom, one who makes a business out of wisdom" and σοφός, sophós means "wise man".

In modern usage, sophism, sophist, and sophistry are derogatory terms, due to the influence of many past philosophers.

A sophism is taken as a specious argument used for deceiving someone.

- Taken from Wikipedia


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Post by bobheckler Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:57 am

NYCelt wrote:
bobheckler wrote:
NYCelt wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:deano thanks having a very good summer,who knows?what do I know,I didn't think Keven Durant would develop into impact player.

...and I thought he would bulk up a little by now. Can't someone give the guy a sandwich or something?

I'll tell you one thing for sure; with every passing day I'm convinced I know less than I thought I did the day before!

Regards

Dean,

If you know less today than you knew the day before, then how come you're repeatedly smart enough to figure that out the next day that you were wrong yesterday?

If sophistry is the source of the word "sophisticated", then why am I not more clever here?

bob

.

Bob,

I'm responding to give you the answer to your question in bold above.

How do I figure out I was wrong yesterday? Simple. My wife tells me.

By the way; you're plenty clever. In the modern sense, I don't see you as indulging in sophisms.

And for those playing the home version of our game...

The term sophism originated from Greek σόφισμα, sophisma, from σοφίζω, sophizo "I am wise"; confer σοφιστής, sophistēs, meaning "wise-ist, one who does wisdom, one who makes a business out of wisdom" and σοφός, sophós means "wise man".

In modern usage, sophism, sophist, and sophistry are derogatory terms, due to the influence of many past philosophers.

A sophism is taken as a specious argument used for deceiving someone.

- Taken from Wikipedia


Regards

Dean,

If you accept the statements from your wife that you were wrong yesterday (regardless if you agree with them or not), then that tells me that you are at least as smart today as you were yesterday. Choosing to do something that you know will produce better results is a sign of intelligence and, obviously, you have figured out that letting your wife correct you today for your "failings" yesterday produces better results. Pretty smart, I'd say.

I must admit, however, that I have been known to play the Devil's Advocate and pick fights over triflings just to get the blood and brain moving more. So, I'm afraid I can be a bit of a sophist, at times. I just don't like seeing other people fight over ridiculous things. Then I climb up on my high horse and try to be the peacemaker. Pretty dumb, when you stop to think about it.

bob

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Post by NYCelt Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:25 pm

Bob,

OK; I can't resist going with this.

I'm looking at the positive line of your reasoning that you may have zipped past.

If you're saying that you're playing Devil's Advocate at times "to get the blood and brain moving" then might we expand that idea to the point that since you're posting in a public forum your musings have the same benefit for all of us here?

If that is true might I suggest that rather than acting in a sophist manner you might actually be playing the role of protagonist?

At worst then, one could make the argument that since you might sometimes be picking at a valid argument introduced by another, you are at those times acting in the role of deuteragonist (and not antagonist since your point could also be valid). As we know the deuteragonist can often be more than the second banana of first appearance and ultimately be revealed as the true hero.

I'm trying to give you some positive light here, but you're making me go way out onto the warning track and up against the fence to do so...

Regards
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