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Post by beat Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:26 am

C's were forced into bench mode early. Luke got meaningful minutes and did OK for himself. Certainly was hustling.

Team just seems to do what it needs to do to win a game. Nate will become increasingly more impotant now that RR is out for 5-6 games or so. That should help him become adjusted better. A little sloppy but it's Nate not Rondo and Nate actually looks for a shot a bit more.

Otherwise what can you ay we held them to a low 68 FGA yeah they did go to the line over twice as much but seemed ot have minimal effect. And dispite being outsized somewhat held our own on the boards too.

Forced them into 18 turnovers.

Shot well and shot selection seemed OK , did miss a few bunnies.

Sorry I had to leave the GAME on thread for much of the game. Weather broke a bit and I went out and cleaned out, and did the same thing again this morning, about 2 more feet total. Bing Crosby is wrong.........I ain't dreaming of a White Christmas!

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Post by jeb Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:36 am

one thing i have noticed is that the capn and specially KG are both getting waaayyy higher both on their shots and rebounds. Both players are in supreme hops and are in shape this year for real.

Anybody else seeing this specialy from PP? We expect it from a healthy tik but PP is really getting up in the sky to board.
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Post by swedeinestonia Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:03 am

Pierce definitely has better hops.

He has made/attempted more dunks too.
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Post by dbrown4 Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:34 am

I liked the way that despite RR being out, PP picked it up with 10 dimes himself. NR presents and interesting short term challenge to teams that have prepared for RR all along. For 5-6 games with one behind us, teams may not be able to reset before it's too late and Rondo's back.

Nate's going to give us points. PP proved he can assist quite well and become a makeshift point-forward.

I think after last season, Doc or someone said let's quit worrying about the injuries because we're going to have them. Every team is going to have them. Let's just win with what we've got. Again, they all stepped up and did that last night, Nate, PP, SE, RA, GD, KG, etc.

Someone answer me this. In watching the end of the SAS v. DEN game, the idiotic discussion (to me) of the "refs not wanting to to determine the game" came up. Are the refs really thinking this at the end of close games? If so, they've lost the one thing they should hold dear as refs, I would think, and that is objectivity and unbiasedness. Score and time of game should not be issues to a ref. If CA comes barrelling down the lane and takes the shot like he did and plows through Ginobli, the refs are really thinking about the flow of the game and what time it is and "determining the outcome" and maybe I should not call that because it might influence the outcome of the game? You've got to be kidding me. Is this just media hype again?

Confused in NC
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Post by beat Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:04 am

dbrown

I agree completely, I think the more likely unsaid answer is the refs don't want to Frig up a play that might determine the outcome of said game. Thus they swallow their whistles.

A foul is a foul ...regardless of when it happens same with ANY violation.

Refs have no balls, make a call if need be. Heck the other night RA was driving baseline and got clobbered, knocked down ref stood 5 feet away and SAW nothing. Then down the court at the other end it appeared the RA clearly raked the arms of someone and again the ref let it go.

The old make up NO CALL.

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Post by MDCelticsFan Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:30 am

As far as the effort of Pierce and Garnett is concerned, I think they are looking at the real prospect of a work stopage for 2011-'12. This MAY be the last go 'round for this group as we know them. Whoever wins the 2010-'11 title probably will hold it for 2 years. The way the Celts just seem to be able to compensate for seemingly insurmountable personnel losses due to injury is remarkanle and leads me to believe the leaprachun (sp?) knows there's a pot of gold at rainbow's end for the Celts this year.

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Post by dbrown4 Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:34 am

It is uncanny the make-up calls/no calls that are made. But I don't even think those are correct. I think that's why they went to the quick whistles for T's early this season to stop the whining and hence influencing refs. I know these guys are human and for the most part do the very best they can. They can only call what they see. We are stupid to think they can see/focus on more than one thing at a time. Hence the 6 eyes on the court.

I know bball is an emotional game for the fans and the players. The players should be able to question a call directly to the ref...reasonably. But the LeBron's of the world who think EVERY time they go down the lane they are brutally maimed or lost a limb is truly ridiculous. Players deserve an explanation so they can correct it next time and don't get the whistle.

The refs should call the game all the way through the way they see it. They will make mistakes. But that's what replay is for.

I also understand that there is a small fraternity of NBA refs. They know the players and their tendencies. The players know this as well. They know the refs tendencies. I'm sure there are reams of scouting reports on the refs as well. But for the most part, the player reactions are overreactions and should be T'ed up until they are under control.

The players are trying to determine/influence the outcome. The refs shouldn't be and hence the inherent conflict. Players by definition can't be unbiased. But they can be controlled. Putting them 1 more T from being tossed seems to get the point across so far.

In the purest sense, I believe the refs should be completely unbiased in their calls. In reality, I understand they could possibly have a random thought about "influencing" an outcome of a game or quid pro quo. Actually they do determine the outcome of all games, otherwise there would be no need for them. They keep order on the court and make sure everyone obeys the rules.
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Post by bobheckler Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:49 am

This one's for you, Jeb.

This team is impressing me more and more every day. Their ability to adapt to key player losses and keep their chemistry going is astonishing. We're down three centers (how many teams even have three centers?) and we still have 2 players with double-digit rebounds; we're down our all-star point guard (I predict this year's starting All-Star point guard) who represents 14 out of our team average 26 assists, and they still deliver 28 assists with almost 64% of all fgm being assisted; and let's not forget we're down our backup SG too. We adapted to the Knicks run-and-gun game on Wednesday and then got the job done Thursday against a very athletic Hawks team that came into town loaded for bear after their humiliating 23-point spanking earlier this season. People have made a lot of noise about how our senior citizens can't play against young, athletic teams. Well, we did pretty freaking well against them this week. Hawk fans can point to the loss of Joe Johnson and last year's sixth man Jamal Crawford as reasons for their loss. I'm sorry, but that excuse doesn't work this time, because we're thinner than swiss cheese at multiple positions.

1. If the refs enforced the new rule about not bitching about calls last night Josh Smith not only would have been T'd up, he'd have been led away in shackles and an orange jumpsuit. He didn't stop jawing with the refs all night and they let him get away with it. Can't say I blame him though, he had a night to remember, but not in a good way. 0-8 in 34, just 1 point from a ft. The first time in his career he's gone ohfer in over 30 minutes of play. Some of the credit for that has to go to the man defending and disrupting him, Paul Pierce.

2. On the subject of Pierce, he really stepped up last night. 10 assists by him showed he knew where we were going to be hurting with the loss of Rondo. Not a good shooting or scoring night, but who cares? He did so many other things well. He was The Captain last night.

3. Marvin Williams had a career game. He's going to be very valuable to that team when Joe Johnson comes back. Jeff Teague was running past everybody. I wonder if he's still got that big smile on his face today? Hey Jeff, he who laughs last, laughs best. Somebody oughta tell the youngster you don't look like you're enjoying yourself in another person's building until AFTER you win the game.

4. Speaking of youngsters, you know we're thin when Doc is putting two rookies on the floor at the same time in the 1st quarter. Avery Bradley looked lost out there, completely lost. Offensively he didn't look comfortable handling the ball (Teague made an easy steal on a spin move by Bradley) and defensively Teague took advantage of him, in part, because he didn't know our defense and so didn't play Teague correctly. On one play, Teague ate him alive by giving a slight headfake left, towards a pic, and Bradley bit on it and Teague just blew past him on the right. If Bradley was more familiar with our defense, he'd have known that KG was there to prevent the penetration. This isn't too surprising, after all Teague has more experience than Bradley (who didn't even play in summer league or pre-season), nevertheless it highlights just where Bradley is in his development. He's at the very beginning. Harangody played a few more minutes than Bradley (7 1/2 vs 3 1/2) and earned them, IMO. I've said before I'm liking what I'm seeing in Luke and I think my gut was right last night. He was near the ball on almost every rebound, contesting for at least two potential rebounds (just contesting them disrupts the other team's fast break) and garnered one, and shot 2-4 from the field. The kid is NOT shy about hoisting them, but they were all open shots that he should have taken. He obviously has basketball IQ and was doing his defensive switches well. If/when Shaq or JON come back he may never get off the bench again, but he did well last night.

5. We're down two guards, one of whom is our backup SG, the Atlanta SG/SF are playing well (Williams, Wilkens and Evans) and Von Wafer only plays 2 minutes? Hmm.

6. Pierce and Allen both logged heavy minutes for the second night in a row but looked good anyway. I haven't been talking about Ray Allen enough. What a pro. Doesn't do jack in the first half and then just takes over in the 3rd quarter. 7-13 shooting overall. Laker fans used to call Sasha "the machine". Sorry guys, but that's Walter Ray Allen. Sasha has better hair, though. Probably uses a machine on it. Maybe that's where the nickname came from?

7. KG is alive and lovin' every second of it. Two good offensive nights in a row and a monster on the boards. Double-doubles are coming easy to him now. He's chewing on iron and spitting out nails like a gun.

8. Semih's doing a great job for us. His game is somewhat limited, Lord Knows his offense doesn't exist 6'+ out, but he's playing very well, is showing good IQ and plays hard and hurt. I've had a torn rotator cuff. I watched him do two lefty hooks last night and my jaw dropped. You have no idea how hard that is to do with a torn left rotator cuff. You can't hardly bring your arm up, much less sweep it forward with the weight of a ball at the end of it. At 240#, he's really not built for the wars inside, except for the engine inside his chest. He is one tough, tough hombre and he is filling a need big time right now.

9. Nate against Atlanta was not as good as Nate against NY. Much sloppier, less under control, some pretty poor decisions. Still, with Rondo and West out and with Avery not ready for prime time, Nate was one man against an athletic backcourt army. The Atlanta backcourt had a good game last night, but it's hard to fault Nate too much. He was Horatius at the Bridge and he played 41 minutes, more than any other player on either team.

10. Daniels hit an outside shot last night but his offensive meat-and-potatoes is posting up. He is actually a really good post-up player and he is not afraid to take the ball inside on someone. Not a flashy player, not one where you see him play and go "Wow! Did you see that!?", but the sum of his parts makes him a quality performer in almost every area: fg% (48%), assist-to-TO (.9:.6, a 1.5 ratio which would be acceptable in a backup pg, much less a SF), defense in general and blocks (Q is 33rd in the NBA for forwards in blocks/48minutes; higher than KG or Pierce).

Winning back-to-back games against two teams with winning records. This was a great week to be green.

bob

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Post by beat Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:55 am

dboss

your quote below

In the purest sense, I believe the refs should be completely unbiased in their calls. In reality, I understand they could possibly have a random thought about "influencing" an outcome of a game or quid pro quo. Actually they do determine the outcome of all games, otherwise there would be no need for them. They keep order on the court and make sure everyone obeys the rules. .

Having reffed years ago in HS I like this statement but unfortunately in the PROS they tend to give way to much star treatment. And as for the rules, travel could be called and should be called a whole lot more. Palming too.

I know fans don't want to see numerous trips to the foul line either but the players will adjust to what is being called.

Of the pro sports basketball is perhaps the hardest ot officiate and I do think that most refs on all levels just want to get the calls right.

One point that I will be critical of the refs on is NOT BEING IN POSITION. I only worked 2 man crews and we knew our responsibilites, with three there are some court areas that do overlap.

Last evening the trail official got way to far up the court on the sideline almost to the foul circle extended while the ball was being defended at the top of the key. The offensive player lost control and nearly stepped into the backcourt to retrieve the ball, but the trail official was so far removed from HIS RESPONSIBLE area he was in no position to to see wether he actually did step over 1/2 court.

At least we don;t have Violet Palmer working games anymore

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Post by sinus007 Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:45 am

Hi,
With all due respect to KG, PP and others, I didn't see ATL presented any meaningful defense.
I was impressed with their G Teague - very fast. Not much on defense, though.
Kudos to SE - he managed to be in the right place at the right time. When O'Neals are back, I hope Doc will keep him in the rotation for several minutes.
Thank you very much,
AK
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Post by gyso Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:26 pm

bob,

Von Wafer hurt his back. He went to the locker room and didn't return.

Semih supposedly has a nice mid range jump shot, but he has kept it in his back pocket for now. He has too much to learn about the NBA game first before he starts jacking up jump shots. If he keeps playing 40+ minutes, we may get a look at it at some point out of neccessity.

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Post by bobheckler Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:36 pm

gyso wrote:bob,

Von Wafer hurt his back. He went to the locker room and didn't return.

Semih supposedly has a nice mid range jump shot, but he has kept it in his back pocket for now. He has too much to learn about the NBA game first before he starts jacking up jump shots. If he keeps playing 40+ minutes, we may get a look at it at some point out of neccessity.

gyso,

Thanks for the news on Von Wafer. I just checked out google news on him and he says it won't keep him out of games. Other things might, like his play, but not his back.

We're down to 10 players, not including Shaq and JON. We need everyone we have until we can get past these injuries.

bob

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Post by LACELTFAN Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:21 pm

We're down three centers (how many teams even have three centers?)

Well put, Mr. Heckler, this should bode well for us come playoff time, assuming they are all back and contributing.
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Post by Sam Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:49 pm

Bob,

Doc said, after the game, that Wafer had "come in for treatment" the two days before having to leave last night's game.

Actually, it could be argued that Delonte might be the backup PG, with Nate being freed of responsibilities that are taxing his comfort level so he (Nate) can focus on shooting.

When they finally (if ever) get the injured players back to practice, I won't be at all surprised to see Bradley go to the Developmental League. I know he hasn't had much playing time, so I'm not down on him. And participating in shorthanded practices is not the right way to learn the system. But he needs a steady infusion of competition as an intermediate step between college and the pros.

It's impossible to overstate how much Glen Davis means to this team right now. He has improved in so many areas, and he even won a jump ball last night. He has become a very heady player (and I'm not just talking about the beating his gourd takes when he hits the floor on charges). In fact, he might be called the "Sound Mound of Rebound," except that he doesn't even look fat to me any longer. Really solid to be sure, but I bet he's dropped a minimum of 30 pounds in fat since he joined the team.

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Post by bobheckler Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:19 pm

Sam wrote:Bob,

Doc said, after the game, that Wafer had "come in for treatment" the two days before having to leave last night's game.

Actually, it could be argued that Delonte might be the backup PG, with Nate being freed of responsibilities that are taxing his comfort level so he (Nate) can focus on shooting.

When they finally (if ever) get the injured players back to practice, I won't be at all surprised to see Bradley go to the Developmental League. I know he hasn't had much playing time, so I'm not down on him. And participating in shorthanded practices is not the right way to learn the system. But he needs a steady infusion of competition as an intermediate step between college and the pros.

It's impossible to overstate how much Glen Davis means to this team right now. He has improved in so many areas, and he even won a jump ball last night. He has become a very heady player (and I'm not just talking about the beating his gourd takes when he hits the floor on charges). In fact, he might be called the "Sound Mound of Rebound," except that he doesn't even look fat to me any longer. Really solid to be sure, but I bet he's dropped a minimum of 30 pounds in fat since he joined the team.

Sam

sam,

I agree with everything you said above.

If West is our backup pg and not Nate, then we have none since I don't consider Avery Bradley pg material as he currently stands. I hear what you're saying though, about Nate being a shoot-first player.

Bradley will probably be sent down and that'll actually be good for him. Let him get some intense coaching from a staff whose primary job is to teach (as opposed to worrying about playoff seeding), while actually running his own club. It isn't going to happen here unless Nate goes on the IR because he tried to jump on somebody's back and ended up doing a faceplant.

Baby is HUGE (no pun intended). Semih has done a great job but he's banged up and an NBA rookie. As we hit the quarter-pole of the season, Glen Davis has to be one of the odds on favorites to win the Sixth Man Award.

bob

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