Quickest First Step

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Post by jeb Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:44 pm

Good Lawd this forum is sweet. All you cats are a collected basketball bible. I stand in awe and ready to learn.

I remember Paxon was a hell of a player in Portland I think.
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Post by David14 Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:45 pm

Jeb, I agree with you. Jim Paxson did very well in Portland. Not so when he played for the Celtics. The chemistry wasn't there. That's probably what caused Larry to be Larry as Pete "correctly" stated. Most of us were excited when we learned that we were going to get another outside scoring threat. It's too bad things did not turn out as planned!!

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Post by Sam Sat Oct 17, 2009 2:28 pm

Jeb,

I don't want your very kind post to go unanswered. What you said means a whole lot. And what everyone is contributing means a whole lot. When people are in a welcoming and enabling environment, they thrive. They're inspired to come up with something extra. Same with basketball players.

I hope you'll continue to feel the same way. And here's some really good news. If this teams fulfills their potential for this season, you will have a treasure trove of memories to share with future generations. My not-so-obvious agenda on this board is to ensure that people realize the fullest possible enjoyment out of what lies immediately ahead.

Best,

Sam
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Post by pete Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:05 pm

Jeb,

I'm learning as well, I only go back to the 80s with the team, no worries, we'll learn together.

Welcome, glad you are here.

Pete
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Post by pete Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:34 pm

David,

Thanks a lot, now I can't get rid of the mental image of Bird in dreadlocks out of my head!

Pete
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Post by jeb Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:18 pm

Fellas
It seemed to me like there was an awful lot of young guy lack of knowledge and my generation is the only one that counts thinking comin from not just the trolls but a few other cats on the globe site. I just started reading the globe deal a couple a weeks ago but thats what I saw.

It's funny. Amongst most of my friends I am a hoop guru but I come here and read what you cats say that saw those 60's teams play and I feel humbled and hungry to soak in all that knowledge.

I know the names and have done a mess of reading but I never saw the games.

It SAYS something that all you guys who SAW 8 in a row think so much of this current team. I saw the 80's teams and I feel the same way but that must be that much sweeter to have this feeling AGAIN with this caliber team for all of you who were there for the russ years. I know that I feel very lucky indeed to have this feeling again as I was in my late teens and 20's during Bird and didn't truly appreciate what I had.
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Post by Sam Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:26 pm

Jeb, the current team is so similar in makeup to the Russell teams that it's eerie.

You've got the tall, lanky defensive intimidator (KG and Russ), the flashy PG (Rondo and The Cooz), the deadly shooting guard (Ray and Sam Jones even look alike), assorted other role-playing rebounders, defensive specialists, and marksmen. And now they've even got two sixth men, which is what they had in 1962-63 with Havlicek and Ramssy.

I'm telling you, if Doc starts playing Giddens and Hudson as a Disruptive Duo, it will be reminiscent of the Jones Boys from those teams, and I may kill myself on the theory that life just could never get any better.

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Post by jeb Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:58 pm

Sam,

What are your thoughts on Lester? I noticed Giddens got 13 frickin rebounds I think against New Jersey the other night. Word on the street is he needs to be more assertive (Giddens) word on the street is Hudson is born assertive.

In that spirit. Tell me what you think of Hudson?

Reading your post earlier inre the waves of ends and rebirths or 4 ages of celt. I got to admit I didn't know they were that good BEFORE Russ.
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Post by Sam Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:32 pm

Jeb,

They had four or five consecutive .500+ seasons just before Russ arrived. Cousy was magical, and it could well be that I wouldn't have become nearly such a basketball fan without his presence. Russ arrived around Christmas of 1956 after having been on the winning Olympic team; and, sparked by Heinsohn's arrive, they were already well in front in their division. They were, in fact, quite good. They just weren't strong enough at getting the ball.

Hudson's getting to be a favorite topic with me. He's now my second-favorite player after Rondo (and gaining fast on Rajon). You might guess that I don't always pick the superstars as my faves.

I like:

* the fact that Lester has skills in so many facets of the game;

• his love of defense and being disruptive, especially in the passing lanes;

• his confident shooting touch...young guys don't shoot that confidently unless they're used to hitting a high percentage;

• the fact that he's scorer who thinks pass first;

• his aggressive attitude...unlike Pruitt, he usually advances the ball (by dribble or pass) when he has it...he's visibly assertive in directing the offense;

• the passing ability (including interior passing) that he's shown in spurts;

• his poise and desire...I love reading his interviews because his perspective suggests that, despite his rocky background, he really has his head on straight...and, when he's suddenly thrown into the fray, he doesn't disappear and he at least makes attempts to take charge.

The jury's still out regarding:

• whether he can learn the nuances of running a team (I'm betting yes);

• how consistent his shooting will be;

• how good a team defensive player he can be.

I wasn't kidding about what I said concerning the disruptive abilities of Hudson and Giddens and how they're reminiscent of K.C. and Sam Jones before Sam because a premier scorer and long before they both made the Hall of Fame.

Hope this answers your question.

Sam
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Post by pete Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:48 pm

Sam,

Very interested to hear that you think there is a similarity between this & the 60s team. Other than Russ (no way for any to be close) how are they defensively? I know it is early, but the team the year before last & with the additions this year, can you get a read on it?

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Post by jeb Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:53 pm

Sam,
In spades. I have been doing most of my learning from reading and the espn highlites ever so often. No TV! But gettin cable on monday.

In the globe forum it seemed like people were split on Lester.

KC and Sam is serious high praise. Comin from you for sure.

I like that he has gotten his ticket punched a little in life and I LIKE his age.

If I am hearing you right he has a ton of court sense and believes in himself strong.

How do the vets seem to respond to him? Is his handle good enough to play back up point? You seem to think yes.

If I had to pick a fave I guess I'd go with PP. Maybe it's just I am the happiest for him after so many years in the wilderness.

I know this is a vastly diff subject so apologies. But do you think the Spurs can make a run at the Lakers this year. I do if ginobli is truly back.

New to this so sorry if I aint supposed to change the subject.
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Post by David14 Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:20 pm

Pete, I guess it would be safer to leave the dreadlocks to "Manny being Manny"!!! Although, a "dreadlocked" Larry would definitely be a sight to see!! That would definitely explain any nightmares!!!

David


Last edited by David14 on Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:22 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : correction)
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Post by pete Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:48 pm

David,

You better be here when I wake up @ 3:00 AM in a cold sweat to talk me down!

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Post by David14 Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:54 pm

Pete, knowing me, I probably will be here. I can't tell you the lengths I used to go through in order to watch the C's, win or lose.

Who knows a dreadlocked Larry may be have been the difference between a superstar and Superman Larry!!! Thinking about it, the "picture" would be pretty strange.

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Post by pete Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:56 pm

Ok, David, throw in some Kareem goggles, and you got a deal!

Is this site great, or what? I very rarely posted on BDC, but there is an energy here that is hard to stay away from.

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Post by Sam Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:14 pm

Pete,

I can't exclude Russell because he wasn't just a great defensive player. The fact that he was back there like the Berlin Wall enabled all the other Celtics to gamble in the passing lanes. I wish they had kept steals records in those days (to say nothing of blocks).

I used to say that one of their best defensive plays was to let an opponent penetrate. That's how fearsome Russell was.

Otherwise, it's difficult to compare the two eras because (1) the Russell Celtics played man-to-man defense and the Garnett Celtics play team defense and (2) the older game was much faster so both the Celtics and their opponents scored more than is now the case. One season, the Celts averaged 119.3 a game and their opponents averaged 113.3 and the Celtics didn't win the championship (1967).

I think the old Celtics played the best man-to-man defense I ever saw and the 2007-08 Celtics played the best team defense I ever saw. The only way I could differentiate their overall defensive effectiveness is by what I'd call "impact defense." By that, I mean defense that just destroys and demoralizes the opposition and fuels the Celtics' offense. Although the Posey Celtics were pretty good at this, the Russell teams win hands down.

Those Celtics teams were teams of spurts. They might go on as many as four to six separate runs of 7 to 10 points a game, and the defense was the catalyst each time.

But without Russell, the entire structure of the old Celtics' defense would be weakened so that I couldn't make a comparison. Sorry, but I did try.

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Post by pete Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:46 pm

Sam,

It doesn't matter that you couldn't make the comparison, because you explained the difference, and it was easy to understand.

In that last post, you provided me with a clear picture of then & now. This has always been for me, one of the most difficult things to grasp. And since I have always bought into " it starts with defense", having that aspect explained, allows me to build off of that.

Thanks!

Pete
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Post by Sam Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:53 pm

Pete,

If you can get that Celtics-Royals documentary video I mentioned, it the "game of runs" thing fueled by defense will become even more clear.

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Post by David14 Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:57 pm

Pete, the difference between this group and the what was going on with BDC, everyone in this group really does have a common thread, no pun intended. We all love the Celtics, and/or if the posters do not support the Celtics, the common thread is "poster friendship". If enough folks join, I think the "energy" will be 24/7 during the season. You obviously have a great sense of humor. Who else would ensvision good "ole" Larry in Mannytype dreadlocks!! As as Kareem's goggles, now that may cause problems worse than "nightmares"!!!
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Post by pete Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:31 pm

Sam,

thanks, I will see if I can get a hold of that.
David, humor is huge for me, it has opened a lot of doors, and Ithink kept me somewhat sane in this crazy world.

Life is too short not to be able to laugh, which is one of my main reasons for being here (other than Celts of course), and why I considered that weeding through the bickering on BDC, was a waste of time.

Pete
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Post by David14 Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:35 pm

Pete, you will be a great asset to Sam's new site. I completely agree with you about the value of humor. I look forward to many laughs, and, hopefully, many wins as we enter the new season.

David
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Post by pete Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:57 pm

Thanks David, same here.

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Post by BloodRunsGreen Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:32 pm

Going back to the original "Quickest First Step" part of this thread....

I know he was not the fastest, but I have fond memories of watching "The Chief" (a.k.a. Robert Parrish) do his spin move around his defender along the baseline for a dunk. He was good for 1 or 2 buckets a game with that move. Makes me smile to think about it.... Quickest First Step - Page 2 Icon_smile
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Post by pete Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:45 pm

I still can picture his move. One of my favorite centers. If you have ever read the section in Larry Bird's Book, Drive, he does a nice job describing the Chief. He always loved the way he would "strut" up the court after a bucket.

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Post by jeb Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:01 am

This is un related. But I hope Sheed is willing to bang inside on O a little with that second unit. He can still do it and we need him inside, It's preseason and he is a salty old pro (old whores don't giggle much) But we need him to post lesser players up.

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