The Lakers' Season after Starting 1-4

I will reply to some of cowens and bob's points, but I want to first say that it is getting a little old trying to defend the Lakers. They have been plagued by effort and execution issues. The last month plus had been non-stop talk about Howard's back, Nash's back, the triangle offense, the win-less pre-season, Nash's leg injury, Brown being fired, the Phil Jackson mess, the controversy over D'Antoni being hired, Dwight's FT shooting, Pau's knees and effort, Kobe calling out Pau, starting the 3rd and 4th string pg's, the mounting losses, leading the league in turnovers, etc... Am I missing anything? (Don't tell me if I am).

In last night's game, the main reasons they lost was the offensive rebounds they gave up and the turnovers. LA leads the lead in TO/game and is 2nd to last in TO differential. Last night LA started Jamison and Duhon and also brought Earl Clark in as part of the rotation. You can tell their spacing was way off trying to rebound on the defensive end. Much of that was due to players not being familiar with each other. Hack a Howard is not why LA lost but that put Houston over the top.

cowens said that Kobe bricked all of his shots in the last 2 minutes. That is just not true. Kobe made a basket with 59 seconds left to bring LA within 2 and then hit a 3 pointer with 13 seconds left to bring them within 1. Cowens was way off on his comparing Parish and McHale and to Dwight and Pau. Parish and McHale were very good face to the basket shooters from within 15 feet. A better comparison to Parish and McHale would be Olajuwon and Sampson. Dwight cannot hit 15 foot jump shots like those guys could. Dwight's only offensive moves are with his back to the basket or driving to the basket. Yes, Pau has helped the Lakers win 2 championships but he is also a big reason why they tanked in the playoffs over the last two years. If LA can bring in two younger players who are more athletic and better shooters, I absolutely think LA should trade Pau. I still feel that Nash's injury is not serious. A small crack in a bone is not a serious injury. When it is healed, it is healed. That is not true for knee or ankle injuries.

The Lakers have played 3 games this year in which the winner won by fewer then 5 points. LA is 0-3 in those games. Decent FT shooting would have won all of those games.

And who do you think will trade 2 young players for oldish damaged goods? Even if the salaries fall in line.

And Nashs injury is serious enough to keep him out for who knows how long.....and being older makes the healing process a tad bit longer too. So now your the team Dr too I see.........when it is healed it's healed........LMAO

Small crack in a bone that supports you standing and running to a great degree, is not serious? So he may miss 30, 35 ??? 40 games??? So when does it become "serious"?

beat

TJ,

You have to expect to defend the Lakers. After all, Celtics fans have nothing to worry about when it comes to the Celtics, seeing as how the Celts have started 17-0 and will probably clinch the division title within the next week-or-so. LOL

Please note that I typed "LOL" above. That automatically means no one can criticize this post.

Sam

sam wrote:TJ,

You have to expect to defend the Lakers. After all, Celtics fans have nothing to worry about when it comes to the Celtics, seeing as how the Celts have started 17-0 and will probably clinch the division title within the next week-or-so. LOL

Please note that I typed "LOL" above. That automatically means no one can criticize this post.

Sam

This thread now has over 1000 views and 123 posts. This is pretty amazing considering it doesn't have anything to do with the Celtics and this is a Celtics board.

If we were 17-0 my guess would be there'd be much less. MUCH less.

While I'm all in favor of discussing the Lakers (and any other team) in an analytical type of way I think the inclusion of schadenfreude is a bit premature. Other than the two regular season meetings between the two teams we don't run into them until the Finals. Assuming we both make it to the Finals. To do that, we need to get past the World Champion Miami Heat, who are starting out 12-4, tying them with NYK for 1st place in the east.

We don't have any Miami Heat fans on this board that I'm aware of, so I suspect any comparable Miami thread wouldn't generate anywhere near as much volume since nobody would push back.


That's a shame, since Doc is right when he said his focus is on Miami. If we should be feeling schadenfreude for any team, and dwelling on their ups and downs, it should be for the Heat. #18 almost certainly goes through South Beach and perhaps not through Inglewood.


bob - LOL


.

I agree with TJ that Nash's leg injury shouldn't be a big deal in the long run. It's a crack at the top of the fibula, the small bone in the lower leg, not the tibia, which is the main weight-bearing bone. It's not a displaced fracture. The crack is at the top of the bone by the knee, which is far better than being at the bottom, where it's involved in complex connections in the ankle.

It's non-displaced, not in the major weight-bearing bone, and doesn't involve any ligaments, tendons, or other soft tissue. Once it's healed, he should be fine.

beat wrote:And who do you think will trade 2 young players for oldish damaged goods? Even if the salaries fall in line.

And Nashs injury is serious enough to keep him out for who knows how long.....and being older makes the healing process a tad bit longer too. So now your the team Dr too I see.........when it is healed it's healed........LMAO

Small crack in a bone that supports you standing and running to a great degree, is not serious? So he may miss 30, 35 ??? 40 games??? So when does it become "serious"?

beat

I am not going to speculate who LA could trade Gasol for.
I wouldn't say Pau is damaged goods. He says he has some aching in his knees.
Don't you think Boston would love to have Gasol for the next two years to compete for a championship with Rondo, Garnett and Pierce?
Boston could probably land Pau in a 3 way trade without giving up a starter.

Originally, the Lakers doctors felt Nash's injury was pretty insignificant and that he could return in 1-4 weeks.
In looking at the positive side of Nash's injury, I am happy that Nash won't have to play a full 82 game schedule.
Unfortunately, with Nash being out and due to LA's start, even if they get it together, I don't expect that they would have home court advantage in the first round of the playoffs, even more so since they have played 12 home games and 6 road games.

sam wrote:TJ,

You have to expect to defend the Lakers. After all, Celtics fans have nothing to worry about when it comes to the Celtics, seeing as how the Celts have started 17-0 and will probably clinch the division title within the next week-or-so. LOL

Please note that I typed "LOL" above. That automatically means no one can criticize this post.

Sam

Sam,

The Lakers have been nothing but a soap opera from the time they traded for Nash and Howard.
I have been a huge Lakers fan since I was 8 years old.
I do defend the Lakers but try to do so with a pretty open mind.
I don't mind hearing criticism after Lakers losses. I am glad that I have the opportunity to give a rebuttal, which I am allowed to do here and in this thread.
I expect that there will be much better times for the Lakers and their fans in the next month or two.

tj

Whos gonna fix their problems first, our rebounding or your defense? I think when Avery Bradley comes back our defense will pick up, the rebounding who knows, maybe Sully grows into a glass eater? so whats up with your defense, any ideas?

cow

TJ,

I expect you're absolutely right. Although I root for the Celtics, I recognize that—above all other teams in the league (maybe the Spurs come close), the Celtics and Lakers are the most professional. The fans of both teams have every right to duplicate my mantra, "See me in April."

Sam

cowens/oldschool wrote:tj

Whos gonna fix their problems first, our rebounding or your defense? I think when Avery Bradley comes back our defense will pick up, the rebounding who knows, maybe Sully grows into a glass eater? so whats up with your defense, any ideas?

cow

cow,

I expect that LA and Boston will be looking to be very active starting 12/15 to strengthen their weaknesses.
Boston has players that they could use to get a trade for a true center.
Boston could get a very good big man by trading one of their forwards and one of their guards and/or a draft picks.
I feel Boston absolutely needs to add a big man that will provide rim protection and offense.
What would happen to Boston if KG went down for a period of time?
I think Sullinger will be a solid rotation player, maybe similar to BBD, and will excel in offense because he shoots the ball well, is smart, and has a good sense for the game, but I think he will struggle with defense and rebounding.

With the Lakers, things are not nearly as cut and dry as they are with Boston.
With Nash being on the bench almost the whole year and the changes in the offense and defense, we really don't know what the Lakers biggest weakness will be.
So far, their biggest weaknesses have been turnovers and terrible pg play. It's not just the horrendous stats of the pg's (offense and defense), it's the way that they have failed to direct the offense and control the tempo.

The Lakers really only have one trade chip, and that is Pau Gasol.
Boston has very solid bench players, young players and draft picks that they can use to solidify their team via a trade or two.

tj

Your talking mostly personel, I'm asking more as if your coaching, can you come up with anything to improve your teams defense? On the C's, I was impressed with Sullys rebounding in limited minutes, in a few instances when he was matched up with Kevin Love last night he showed me he belonged, had one great hustle play for a Tommy point. The refs are still calling him for every little ticky tack foul for just breathing on someone it seems.

With all that said we outrebounded Wolves, a strong rebounding team, so maybe there is some hope. I'm hoping Sully can eventually be allowed to play by the refs and really see what he can do and last night was a definite small glimmer. Didn't see the game, but see your team really shutdown Austin Rivers on the boxscore, assuming last night your defense played well.

cow

cowens/oldschool wrote:tj

Your talking mostly personel, I'm asking more as if your coaching, can you come up with anything to improve your teams defense? On the C's, I was impressed with Sullys rebounding in limited minutes, in a few instances when he was matched up with Kevin Love last night he showed me he belonged, had one great hustle play for a Tommy point. The refs are still calling him for every little ticky tack foul for just breathing on someone it seems.

With all that said we outrebounded Wolves, a strong rebounding team, so maybe there is some hope. I'm hoping Sully can eventually be allowed to play by the refs and really see what he can do and last night was a definite small glimmer. Didn't see the game, but see your team really shutdown Austin Rivers on the boxscore, assuming last night your defense played well.

cow

The Lakers have had some bad defensive 4th quarters but they are 8th in defensive efficiency which is the amount of points that a team gives up per 100 posessions.
They are also tied for 8th in opponents fg percentage.
Those numbers would be closer to the top if they could control the amount of turnovers they have committed which often results in easy baskets.
The Lakers defense hasn't been as shaky as people think it has been.

Austin Rivers has been shut down by every team this year.
He is shooting 28% this year.
I am not one that thinks Austin will have a successful NBA career.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/lakers-reportedly-turn-down-pau-gasol-trade-offers-194801945--nba.html

Lakers will ride it out one way or another.

tjmakz wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:tj

Your talking mostly personel, I'm asking more as if your coaching, can you come up with anything to improve your teams defense? On the C's, I was impressed with Sullys rebounding in limited minutes, in a few instances when he was matched up with Kevin Love last night he showed me he belonged, had one great hustle play for a Tommy point. The refs are still calling him for every little ticky tack foul for just breathing on someone it seems.

With all that said we outrebounded Wolves, a strong rebounding team, so maybe there is some hope. I'm hoping Sully can eventually be allowed to play by the refs and really see what he can do and last night was a definite small glimmer. Didn't see the game, but see your team really shutdown Austin Rivers on the boxscore, assuming last night your defense played well.

cow

The Lakers have had some bad defensive 4th quarters but they are 8th in defensive efficiency which is the amount of points that a team gives up per 100 posessions.
They are also tied for 8th in opponents fg percentage.
Those numbers would be closer to the top if they could control the amount of turnovers they have committed which often results in easy baskets.
The Lakers defense hasn't been as shaky as people think it has been.

Austin Rivers has been shut down by every team this year.
He is shooting 28% this year.
I am not one that thinks Austin will have a successful NBA career.

TJ,

Re: Austin Rivers.

If you've seen him play at all the whole problem can be summed up in one statement; he should have stayed at Duke. There is no single component of his game that is ready for this level of play.

At issue now is if he can develop his game at this level by being thrown into the fire. Although I'm rooting for the kid I'd say the odds are against him becoming a factor in the NBA. Complimentary role player, perhaps, but his shooting is going to have to improve dramatically for that to ever happen.

Regards

NYCelt wrote:

tjmakz wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:tj

Your talking mostly personel, I'm asking more as if your coaching, can you come up with anything to improve your teams defense? On the C's, I was impressed with Sullys rebounding in limited minutes, in a few instances when he was matched up with Kevin Love last night he showed me he belonged, had one great hustle play for a Tommy point. The refs are still calling him for every little ticky tack foul for just breathing on someone it seems.

With all that said we outrebounded Wolves, a strong rebounding team, so maybe there is some hope. I'm hoping Sully can eventually be allowed to play by the refs and really see what he can do and last night was a definite small glimmer. Didn't see the game, but see your team really shutdown Austin Rivers on the boxscore, assuming last night your defense played well.

cow

The Lakers have had some bad defensive 4th quarters but they are 8th in defensive efficiency which is the amount of points that a team gives up per 100 posessions.
They are also tied for 8th in opponents fg percentage.
Those numbers would be closer to the top if they could control the amount of turnovers they have committed which often results in easy baskets.
The Lakers defense hasn't been as shaky as people think it has been.

Austin Rivers has been shut down by every team this year.
He is shooting 28% this year.
I am not one that thinks Austin will have a successful NBA career.

TJ,

Re: Austin Rivers.

If you've seen him play at all the whole problem can be summed up in one statement; he should have stayed at Duke. There is no single component of his game that is ready for this level of play.

At issue now is if he can develop his game at this level by being thrown into the fire. Although I'm rooting for the kid I'd say the odds are against him becoming a factor in the NBA. Complimentary role player, perhaps, but his shooting is going to have to improve dramatically for that to ever happen.

Regards

NYCelt,

I agree that Austin Rivers should have stayed at Duke.
I don't think Duke or NO really knows what position he should play.
He can play pg or sg but does not excel in either of them.
I think Austin wants to be more of a scorer in the NBA but with his ball handling ability, he should develop into more of a play maker.

I saw as many highlights of Austin when he was in HS as I do now. He went to school in Winter Park, FL which is a little more then an hour from me.
There is a kid that goes to a rival school of WInter Park. His name is Kasey Hill and he is a senior at Monteverde Acedemy.
He is a better player then Austin is at this point.
Kasey reminds me of a Rondo 2. Big hands, long arms, great deception with the ball, great handle, great leaping ability.
Kasey finishes stronger at the rim then Rondo does but that is because he is playing against HS kids and not NBA players.

NYCelt wrote:TJ,

Re: Austin Rivers.

If you've seen him play at all the whole problem can be summed up in one statement; he should have stayed at Duke. There is no single component of his game that is ready for this level of play.

At issue now is if he can develop his game at this level by being thrown into the fire. Although I'm rooting for the kid I'd say the odds are against him becoming a factor in the NBA. Complimentary role player, perhaps, but his shooting is going to have to improve dramatically for that to ever happen.

Regards

I didn't see him a whole lot at Duke, but I agree with NYCelt's assessment wholeheartedly. He's not physically mature enough yet to deal with bigger, stronger athletes in the NBA who are just as fast and have as good or better skills. The most surprising thing is that I thought his shooting was a strong point, but that apparently isn't so.

It also doesn't help that he's a tweener, not big enough for a shooting guard but doesn't have the skillset and acumen for a point guard. That's not necessarily a death knell for his career -- Avery Bradley is a good example of a tweener guard who has done well -- but he's going to have to hit the weights, watch a lot of tape, and work on his game.

So many of these kids are used to being the best player on the court, but when they get to the NBA, their confidence takes a jolt when they find out they aren't that good anymore. We'll see if he has what it takes to pick up the pieces and find a spot in this league. Playing overseas for a year or two might not be the worst thing for him.

just tuned into the Lakers game, they scored only 38 points vs Jazz at the half and the commentators, LA guys are talking about how bad the defense was in the first half.....I'm gonna watch.

cowens/oldschool wrote:just tuned into the Lakers game, they scored only 38 points vs Jazz at the half and the commentators, LA guys are talking about how bad the defense was in the first half.....I'm gonna watch.

38?
They scored 51 at the half.

yahoo sports had the score at 38, must have been an earlier 2nd quarter score, Lakers came back in 3rd, close game