POST GAME BROOKLYN

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POST GAME BROOKLYN

Post by 112288 on Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:22 pm

For a game that we did not belong in early, the Celtics showed grit by coming back in the second half to force a close game.

I am glad Doc read my post several games ago teaming up KG and Wilcox at the 4/5 in the third period. Our rebounding picked up and so did our transition game. Hope Doc can unite both of them more during a game. Wilcox is a big wide body and boxes out well allowing KG to do his thing rebounding.

A POSITIVE STAT..........We had 19 fast break points verses 5 for Brooklyn and led in points in the paint 46/36.

We're going to need Bigger Bodies....we got killed on the defensive and offensive glass again.....and as it goes now, we are no match for bigger teams at the 4/5. Collins showed little.....and for Darko....did he get deported? KG is no match for bigger centers although it would be a help if some our guards helped on on the glass like Lee did tonight.

Brooklyn out rebounded us 47/44 but the real damage was on the offensive glass where Brooklyn beat us 18/12. The gap was much wider in the first half. Boston is last in the league in offensive rebounds averaging 6 a game.....a record low for any team so far in this early season. I will asure you Danny will look to improve in this area...would have been nice to get Humphies in the off season...he would have been a big help!

Nice game for Barbosa....17 pts but what happened in the second half...Doc sat him and for the 4th quarter he entered with 2 minutes left in the game when we needed some scoring. He was scoring in buckets the first half and then he disappears! What's up with that Doc?

Lee's game is starting to come together.......13pts....9 rebs......3 assits...1/2 from beyond the arch.

I like the fact that Bass is getting aggressive on offense and attacking the rim although he went away from that in the 4th.

Green...again showed some faint life but .....faded in the 4th .......even with a big 3pter.....he only scored 5 pts for the game. At his position we are sacrificing an additional 10 - 12 pts a game at this rate which would have been the difference and a win.

Don't look now but we are 4 games down in the loss and the Knicks are not backing down having won in SA tonight

NEST GAME - HOME - SATURDAY - 12:30PM - TORONTO - CSNE/NBA LEAGUE PASS

POST GAME RECAP - ESPNBOSTON.COM

Rapid reaction: Nets 102, Celtics 97

By Chris Forsberg | ESPNBoston.com

Rapid reaction after the Brooklyn Nets defeated the Boston Celtics 102-97 Thursday night at the Barclays Center:

THE NITTY GRITTY
Deron Williams and Brook Lopez scored 24 points apiece, while Joe Johnson added 19 points and Kris Humphries kicked in a double-double (10 points, 13 rebounds) to pace the Nets, who shot just 42.4 percent from the floor but benefitted from a whopping 18 offensive rebounds (and 19 second-chance points). Paul Pierce scored a team-high 22 points for Boston, 11 of which came in the third quarter when he sparked a monster rally, but some uncharacteristic late-game missteps by the captain prevented the Celtics from having a real chance to steal this one. Playing without Rajon Rondo (ankle), Leandro Barbosa started and scored 17 points, while Kevin Garnett (14), Courtney Lee (13), and Jason Terry (10) also landed in double figures for scoring for Boston.

TURNING POINT
After rallying out of a 13-point, third-quarter hole, the Celtics opened an 85-80 lead with 7:57 to play after consecutive buckets by Garnett. Boston went ice cold, however, and Brooklyn scored 13 of the game's next 15 points over a six-minute span to take a 93-87 advantage. The Celtics nearly came back again, but a Pierce layup spun off the rim while he was fouled in a three-point game with 34 seconds to go. Pierce then absent-mindedly committed a foul with 29 seconds to play that helped the Nets put the game away.

A GAME OF RUNS: BROOKLYN FIRST, CELTICS THIRD
Brooklyn came flying out of the gates, making seven straight shots over a four-minute stretch early in the first quarter as it opened an 11-point lead (19-Cool. The Nets absolutely dominated the glass -- heck, Brooklyn had more offensive rebounds (15) than Boston had defensive rebounds (11) at the intermission -- and yet Boston hung around. The Celtics embarked on a 20-2 run in the third quarter while erasing a 13-point deficit and carried a five-point lead into the final frame.

LOOSE BALLS: COLLINS' FIRST ACTION
Veteran 7-footer Jason Collins saw his first action of the 2012-13 season, earning some early court time when Chris Wilcox endured foul trouble late in the first quarter. Collins scored two points and grabbed a rebound over 8:18, but his defense looked (predictably) rusty... Rivers did not go to fellow big man Darko Milicic, who earned another DNP -- Coach's Decision... Wilcox played another spirited 12:31 of floor time and was a +16 in plus/minus in a game Boston lost by five... Tough night for Brandon Bass, who was 4-of-14 shooting for eight points, but was a team-worst minus-23... Keith Bogans committed a hard foul on Barbosa late in the first half, but escaped a flagrant upon video review. That decision likely surprised Boston, especially given how similar the foul looked to Rondo's flagrant-1 against Dwyane Wade in the season-opener in Miami.

WHAT IT MEANS
Playing without Rondo, the Celtics simply didn't have enough on the second night of a back-to-back. Boston played hard in bursts, but also endured some maddening lulls (whether it was a defensive disappearance in the first quarter, or the offensive woes of the fourth frame). Pierce's head-slapping sequence late in the game showed just how off the Celtics were at times and he could be seen taking the blame on the Boston bench. The Nets showed they've got enough pure talent, particularly in a staring 5 that was without Gerald Wallace, to be a contender in the Atlantic Division. The Celtics, in the midst of playing five games in seven nights, will have an offday Friday before diving into another back-to-back that includes hosting the Raptors in a Saturday matinee at TD Garden, then traveling to Detroit on Sunday night.

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Re: POST GAME BROOKLYN

Post by sinus007 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:56 am

112288,
Re Barbosa. I think Doc kept him on the bench because he was pooped. At one point in 3rd quarter (I think) they showed him and he was breathing really heavy. Next the camera moved to DWill who played aprox. the same time and he looked OK. I guess LB spent a lot of energy on defensive end. Plus, his conditioning is not on par with others.

As for the game, it was interesting to see how Celtics were adjusting their game without RR. I hope the next time he's DNP they'd know what to do from the get go.
Kudos to CL. He put a lot of heart into this game: just consider he's a leading rebounder.

AK

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Re: POST GAME BROOKLYN

Post by 112288 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:16 am

Sinus,

You have a point of him getting winded and needing a blow...but for 10 minutes of the 4th quarter?

Ya you are right...Doc was grinding this one out without Rondo...making suitable adjustments to get a good rhythm going and did a pretty good job. I especially liked Wilcox and KG being teamed up. You get good height, a wide body to clear the paint for rebounding and good touches around the basket by both. Wilcox should give some rebounding clinics to all the Celtic bigs including KG. A shot goes up...Wilcox immediately finds his man...sticks his butt into him and clears him away from the rim for a rebound........it is a classic...old school rebounding technique.....in fact if you go to YOU TUBE AND TYPE IN RED ON ROUND BALL......Red gives a clinic on rebounding which stresses this very technique.

Lee had a fabulous game and helped the bigs on the board. He quietly is building a nice game for himself and I like his defense and hustle. The Jet is playing well but often times the Celtics do not give him enough touches or isolate one on one plays for him.

NOW FOR OUR REBOUNDING

It all begins and ends with our bigs!!!

As for our bigs........I can live with KG @ #5 and Wilcox @ # 4 together...it gives the Celtics height...some beef in Wilcox and 2 players that have a nice touch around the rim and can rebound well both off the defensive and offense glass.....proof was yesterday when they teamed up in the 3rd quarter and brought the Celtics back............HOWEVER.............the second 4/5 pairing is where the Celtics are miss firing and weak............

Sullinger is a rookie and still learning rebounding and how to position against players ................but his flaw which hurts is he cannot jump making him ineffective against others taller then him.

Bass could work well at #4 if he had a more physical center to play with. He is undersized at 6'8" and does not have the wide body as Big Baby. Teamed with KG who is not a physical center and often gets bumped off a rebound is a weak pairing. Bass has a nice out side offensive game...and this year is beginning to develop a nice move to the basket which he did not possess last year. What could help Bass and the Celtics is to try to trade for a more physical backup center who can play. The experiment with Darko... is just that....and him sitting is not helping Doc nor the team. Collins is a good backup...backup who could find minutes in a game.

We will see tomorrow how the KG/Wilcox pairing goes.

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Re: POST GAME BROOKLYN

Post by beat on Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:43 am

112288

Gonna dis with you a little on the rebounding. Shorter players NEED to box out players that can't jump NEED to box out. back on 69-70 hondo was our leading rebounder at 6'5" why? Because he boxed out.

Cowens boxed out well against the much taller Jabbar, but I do realize he could jump pretty good too.

Seems our players are just a bit lazy when it comes to this. I've watched too many times when a shot goes up they don't look for a body to box they look at the ball. Body then ball. As you said ALL of the C's should watch Red on Rebounding daily certainly siz in important but it isn't the end all. I have watched Sully when a shot goes up. He gets inside and at least is putting a body on a man but unless everyone boxes properly it ends up being wasted effort on his part.

If we worked at getting better position the ripple effect is less offensive rebound for our opponent, perhaps more shots for us and on top of that perhaps get a few whistles for us on the boards to boot.

Anyway we cannot win giving up 15 or so offensive boards game after game.

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Re: POST GAME BROOKLYN

Post by mrkleen09 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:46 am

The Celtics showed up without Rondo and only really played for half of a game and nearly pulled it out.

Tough loss....but one that will pay dividends later. Lee is finding his place. Green didnt play great, but still made some clutch shots. Barbosa played great on both ends. And Pierce and Terry missing clutch shots and FTs - will burn in their memories. Both will benefit from this stinging loss.

As for the Nets....they are not going anywhere.

They are a team full of front runners, who disappear down the stretch. Deron Williams has to be one of the most overrated players in the league. He scores 40 ppg against Minnesota and Cleveland.....and then the end if the year he is in the top 15 in scoring. But against any top level team, in close games, he folds like a deck of cards. Same with Joe Johnson. A few times in ATL against the C's he had big finished to games....but most often, he was missing in action down the stretch.

Hope to see Rondo back soon.....last night shows what team execution looks like without him. It is scary to say the least.

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Re: POST GAME BROOKLYN

Post by cowens/oldschool on Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:52 am

beat good point Sully does make contact and box out, alot of times his man won't get rebound, but someone else swooping in leaping will grab it.

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Re: POST GAME BROOKLYN

Post by 112288 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:57 am

Beat,

Agree with your statement..........however Hondo......Cowans = HOFers. They did that automatically because they were tops and learned and possessed an overall game.

Also we are in a different era where the game especially on a college level is focused on offense. Sadly many players are not tutored on the finer points of the game such as rebounding not only for #4 or #5 position but the forwards and guard positions as well to help out and box out players.

With Sully....again he is a rookie learning the game. Yes he does exactly what you said..he finds players and puts a body on the defensively. I guess I was focusing more on his offensive game where he cannot use his height to the max to score.

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Re: POST GAME BROOKLYN

Post by mrkleen09 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:04 am

Sully will be fine. He is not sure of where he stands yet, and is often thrown in mid stream to guard a hot player who is 5" taller or much quicker than him. We cant expect him to stop Brooke Lopez or Paul Millsap, after they are already hot.

But he does need to be sure he is at least doing what he can. Setting good picks, blocking out, crashing the boards. Make your presence felt even if you never score.

He will learn the system more, wlll get stronger and quicker, and learn how to find the blue skies (as Baby did) and will be just fine in the long run.

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Re: POST GAME BROOKLYN

Post by beat on Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:24 am

112288

Yes they are HOFers but the simple act of putting your ass on an opponent even 6'5" against a 7 footer pretty much can keep him from getting a rebound. You might not get it but he won't either.

If we rebounded just a little bit better we win last eve, heck we almost won anyway.

Just so sick of seeing basically UNCONTESTED offensive rebounds then a kick out as we collapse on the rebounder , for a wide open shot. Couple times it ended up being a clean look for a trey.

We just got to do better on the boards and I really don't care how big the other teams lineup is.

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Re: POST GAME BROOKLYN

Post by sam on Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:33 pm

112288,

The differential in rebounding between the Celtics and opponents is almost entirely at the offensive end. For the season, to date, the Celtics have 11 fewer defensive rebounds than opponents—virtually a wash.

Of course, it would be nice to dominate the boards at both ends, but Doc's system of quickly falling back in transition defense doesn't create many offensive rebounding opportunities. Given the team's lack of brawn, I'm pretty happy if they stay even with opponents at the defensive end. Perhaps improved rebounding technique would help on the defensive end, but I'm not sure how much difference it would make.

I didn't see the game, but I'm wondering how many of Lee's 9 rebounds may have been facilitated by teammates putting bodies on opponents. Sometimes the guy getting the board isn't the one who does the dirty work. In fact, I believe better teamwork on the defensive boards could potentially yield more incremental improvement than better technique.

I almost posted before the game that I wouldn't be surprised if Doc started Lee, instead of Terry, against Joe Johnson. I still wonder whether that might have been a better defensive alignment for the Celtics.

Sam

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Re: POST GAME BROOKLYN

Post by mrkleen09 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:07 pm

Sam

Pierce was guarding Joe Johnson, with Terry usually matched up with Bogans.

You are right, most of Lee's rebounds were in the 2nd half, when the Boston bigs tied up their guys and the guard slipped in. This is another place they really missed Rondo.

It really isnt even the total offensive rebounds, it is the number of times when the team gets 2 or 3 in one possession. There is nothing more demoralizing then to lock someone down for 23 seconds, have him throw up a brick - only to have the ball rebounding by his teammate and kicked back to him to hit his second (or in some cases third) attempt.

A team without a true center, a team that likes to get back on defense, a team with a PG who is often cheating and reaching around, is going to by its make up and nature - rebound poorly. But as Beat and others have said, the clearly have the ability to do better (second half was a testament to that) it is really down to effort.

I again have faith that Doc will sort it out.

The Defense is falling into place. The set plays are being run better. I have no doubt the rebounding will improve.....not by a lot, but they dont need it to. As long as the Celtics are within 10 rebounds at the end of most games...they will win.

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Re: POST GAME BROOKLYN

Post by beat on Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:25 pm

Mrkleen

I can live with being within 10 boards a game and long as it not 10 more offensive boards that make the difference.

You're right, a couple flurries last evening looked like a volleyball rally on our defensive boards......... then to end up with a kick out wide open three.

And I sort of hate to say it, the worst 2 for boxing out IMHO are PP and KG. And part of that is they are roaming a little further out but they still need to body up on someone.

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Re: POST GAME BROOKLYN

Post by Outside on Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:38 pm

I agree completely with Beat's point on rebounding. Most players make it to the NBA without sound rebounding fundamentals because they've been successful through superior athleticism, but that isn't as effective at the pro level. In my view, the two most important aspects of rebounding are:

• Activity and desire. A lot of rebounding is effort. Are you willing to put in more effort than your opponent, especially when that effort more often than not doesn't result in a rebound?

• Boxing out. Good footwork and the intelligent application of one butt and two elbows can drastically reduce the chances your opponent will get the rebound. Most NBA players succumb rather easily when faced with a player willing to box out.

One is technique (boxing out), and the other is mental toughness (activity and desire). The key here is that these qualities do not require superior height or leaping ability.

Look past a guy like Dwight Howard, and you'll find rebounding leaders who excel in spite of physical limitations, guys like Kevin Love, Zach Randolph, Al Jefferson, Anderson Varajao, and Kenneth Faried.

Guys who have that rebounding mentality are normally born, not made, so I don't expect Jeff Green to turn into Kenneth Faried and start getting 10 rebounds a game. But I do think it's possible for a couple of guys to up their average a rebound a game, which would actually be a big deal, because two more for your team means two less for the other guys, which is a differential of four. And four rebounds a game could turn several L's into W's.

Another aspect regarding the Celtics that we've discussed numerous times is that Doc's preference is to fall back on D rather than try for offensive rebounds. Here's a table for the current season sorted by offensive rebounds per game.

http://bkref.com/tiny/IdhFF

Denver leads the league with 16.9 per game. Boston is dead last with 6.8 per game, 10.1 per game fewer than Denver and 1.3 per game fewer than the next worst, OKC.

Doc's calculus is that they save more points on the defensive end than they would gain on the offensive end. It's noteworthy that, besides Boston, the five worst in the league at offensive rebounding are OKC, the Clippers, Miami, and the Spurs, otherwise known as some of the best teams in the league. Those same five teams are also the five best in the league at field goal percentage, so they have fewer missed shots to rebound.

But most of those other teams are better than the Celtics on the defensive boards. Giving up offensive rebounds as a strategy is fine, but you better take care of business on the defensive end, and the Celtics are lacking in that area. Focusing on fundamentals like boxing out would help.

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Re: POST GAME BROOKLYN

Post by worcester on Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:42 pm

I don't like to make excuses for losses, and sure we need to box out and get more offensive rebounds, but...
We played quite well without Rajon and probably would have won the game had not a ref called an erroneous foul on Barbosa as the ball was being inbounded by the Nets within the last two minutes and the score tied or almost tied. Had the foul not been called we would have had a possession and maybe a score. The foul called gave the ball and 2 free throw points to the Nets. It was a BAD call and really hurt us. Sure Paul's missed free throws and an absent minded foul thereafter with 28 seconds or so left really hurt, but we wouldn't have been in that position with proper refereeing previously.

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Re: POST GAME BROOKLYN

Post by mrkleen09 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:44 pm

worcester wrote:I don't like to make excuses for losses, and sure we need to box out and get more offensive rebounds, but...
We played quite well without Rajon and probably would have won the game had not a ref called an erroneous foul on Barbosa as the ball was being inbounded by the Nets within the last two minutes and the score tied or almost tied. Had the foul not been called we would have had a possession and maybe a score. The foul called gave the ball and 2 free throw points to the Nets. It was a BAD call and really hurt us. Sure Paul's missed free throws and an absent minded foul thereafter with 28 seconds or so left really hurt, but we wouldn't have been in that position with proper refereeing previously.

100% agreed.

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Re: POST GAME BROOKLYN

Post by worcester on Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:49 pm

Red would have given the nearsighted ref a talking to to remember for a very long time on that call.

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Re: POST GAME BROOKLYN

Post by 112288 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:22 pm

Sam,

Lee was aggressive often flying in to catch a rebound and yes boxing out helps guards rebound but you have to be coming to the paint to get a rebound not flying down court.

It could be that Doc has to adjust and get guy's thinking rebound first verses a fast break hoping someone else is clearing the boards........you have to have possession first in order to create the fast break.

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