Would you make a play for Marcin Gortat?

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Should Boston trade for Gortat? Multiple answers allowed

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Total Votes : 22

Would you make a play for Marcin Gortat?

Post by bobheckler on Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:17 pm

He's not happy in Phoenix. He doesn't feel like he's a big enough part of the Suns' offense. I have always found him to be VERY fundamentally sound and we have to start thinking post-KG era. I'm not comfortable with the idea that Fab Melo is that piece, even in a couple of years.

He is making $7.3M this year and $7.7M next year. Assuming he would agree to sign an extension with us past next year, who would you give up for him? We're loaded at guard, would you give up Avery Bradley for a better-than-average 28 year old, 6'11", 240# center? Jeff Green? JET? Who?

I'm not a fan of John Hollinger's PER (a classic understatement) since it under-represents unquantified defensive contributions like deflected passes and full-court pressing, but I do find it interesting when a player that has a rep for being a better defender than an offensive threat has a 20.5 PER (15.0 is league-average). and his opponent's PER is 16.2. Gortat is currently #2 in the league in blocked shots, behind human-pogo stick Serge Ibaka of OKC.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gortama01.html


http://www.82games.com/1213/12PHO14.HTM

http://hoopshype.com/players/marcin_gortat.htm


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Re: Would you make a play for Marcin Gortat?

Post by RosalieTCeltics on Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:02 pm

Well, I like Gortat's game, but, I am not willing to give up on Jeff Green. I know there are many out there who are not fans of Green, but, Danny is NOT going to give up on this kid just yet. Bradley, I don't know, Doc loves him, I can't see him giving him up.

This is a tough one. If Darko goes, would they also let Collins go and make room for him? Lots of questions here.

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Re: Would you make a play for Marcin Gortat?

Post by sinus007 on Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:58 pm

Hi,
I selected the first "YES" because I don't like any others. Don't like to give up any of those, except maybe Lee.
I guess if Danny goes for him and PHX agrees they'd want one of the Celtics bigs. I say - BB + a pick or Melo.
Another plus, if the deal is done, would be the timing - Jan 15 - plenty of time for Gortat to get into the groove in Boston.

AK

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Re: Would you make a play for Marcin Gortat?

Post by sam on Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:36 pm

Bob,

I can't see the possibility of any trade by the Celtics for Gortat until December 15. Green, Bass, Lee, Terry, Collins, Darko, Barbosa, Wilcox and Joseph have all signed contracts recently and can't be traded until Dec. 15. Even if Danny wanted to include Bradley Avery's contract is FAR too small to exchange straight up for Gortat, and the Celts would have to include Rondo or Garnett to have a shot at salary equality. Maybe Danny can pull a Gortat rabbit out of his hat, but I can't see how until mid-December.

Sam


Last edited by sam on Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:00 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Would you make a play for Marcin Gortat?

Post by 112288 on Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:41 pm

December 15th is just around the corner and so could the out come of our season position wise if we bury ourselves by digging a hole that we cannot get out of a 7th or 8th seed position!!!!

I would trade Bass and a draft pick or Melo and a draft pick. Gortat is a strong SOB, he can rebound and has a nice touch around the rim. He gave the Celtics fits while playing for Orlando.

Great length if occasionally you slide KG back to power forward position and play Gortat at center.

I CAN HEAR TOMMY NOW...............THE POLISH HAMMER!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Would you make a play for Marcin Gortat?

Post by sam on Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:06 pm

112288,

And now I read elsewhere that January 15th, not December 15, is the deadline. It sure would be nice to get the definitive word from an official source. Melo and a draft pick is not a possibility because it would fall dramatically short of required the exchange of salaries.

NBA trade-checker or some such vehicle is a good source to consult when considering trades. That's what informed me that Green, Bass, Lee, Terry, Sullinger, Collins, Darko, Melo, Barbosa, Wilcox and Joseph aren't yet eligible to be traded.

Maybe Danny can work a miracle, or perhaps everything can be delayed until after the December 15 or January 15 deadline—whichever is correct.

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Re: Would you make a play for Marcin Gortat?

Post by 112288 on Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:14 pm

Sam, good point about salary. Do not trade Joseph..he's a Bradley 1 year from now or now if Doc played the kid.

They would need a big back so it would take one of our bigs...Collins if they are dumb enough.

What about Darko...if he leaves the team...does his salary come off the cap?

Grotat is a guy who is low key...likes to get down and dirty and work the paint and boards and you do not sit hoping he performs...he'll perform! He would help bring size and a strong body to the 5 position who can do battle with other bigs in the NBA.

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Re: Would you make a play for Marcin Gortat?

Post by 112288 on Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:19 pm

Sam

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Re: Would you make a play for Marcin Gortat?

Post by 112288 on Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:34 pm

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Re: Would you make a play for Marcin Gortat?

Post by sam on Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:12 am

112288,

Those are interesting lists of dates, but they don't include the date I'm looking for. I'm talking about the earliest date a team can trade a player they recently signed (as well as what constitutes "recently").

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Re: Would you make a play for Marcin Gortat?

Post by 112288 on Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:40 am

I tried everywhere could not find. Perhaps the date to sign 10 day contracts (January 10th) is an indication of early trade date.

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Re: Would you make a play for Marcin Gortat?

Post by gyso on Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:15 am

Here is what Larry Coon thinks about trading away free agent (FA) signees:

92. When can a team trade a free agent it signs? Do they have to keep him forever?

Generally a team only has to keep a player for three months after signing a contract or December 15 (*1) of that season, whichever is later. This does not apply to draft picks, who can be traded 30 days after signing. For sign-and-trade transactions, the initial trade which completes the sign-and-trade obviously is allowed, even though it occurs right after the player is signed. The trade restriction in a sign-and-trade applies to the first subsequent trade.

See question number 97 for more information on trade restrictions.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(*1) January 15 if the player is a Larry Bird or Early Bird free agent, re-signs with his prior team, his team is over the cap, and he receives a raise greater than 20% in the first season of his contract.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q92

Any new FA's signed, December 15th.

Any prior Celtic FA re-signed using a Bird rule along with a 20% raise, January 15th.

It is a mixed bag, some players can be traded in December, for some they have to wait until January. The 20% raise makes it harder to track because it requires a little digging as to how much the player made in the prior season.

I liked what I saw in the preseason with Darko, until the wrist sidelined him. I believed that the injury was the key factor in keeping him on the bench. I still believe that. His mother's illness is just a new twist.

Not included in the poll above is Brandon Bass. I would be willing to trade Bass for Gortat, but that is not how the poll was constructed. None of the other options appeal to me, because my choice is to NOT include in any trade ALL the players listed in the poll.

gyso


Last edited by gyso on Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:27 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : hopefully fixed an awkwardly written, hard to understand (and I wrote it!) sentence)

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Re: Would you make a play for Marcin Gortat?

Post by bobheckler on Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:00 am

The trade suggested by the ESPN analyst who is suggesting that Gortat would be a great destination for Boston was Gortat for Lee and Bradley. Those numbers work, I believe. Still don't know when they'll work. Whether Phoenix would trade a center for 2 guards, I don't know that either.


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Re: Would you make a play for Marcin Gortat?

Post by 112288 on Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:15 am

I would never trade Bradley! As KG is the quarterback on defense...Bradley is first line of attack and the instrument that makes it happen..Ball Pressure...ball Pressure...Ball pressure!

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Re: Would you make a play for Marcin Gortat?

Post by sam on Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:21 pm

Thanks for the clarification, Gyso.

I assume Darko's gone. I'm sorry about his mother, but I bet the fact that (unless key injuries occurred) he seemed destined to get very little sustained playing time for the Celtics made it an easier decision for him. Perhaps we'll see how much the wrist factored into the decision by whether or not he signs on with a European team.

I believe the Celtics need to be in the weapons business.

• I see Gortat being a potential weapon and a major upgrade over Darko.

• I'd be okay with trading Lee because, although he's showing signs of being very useful, I don't view him as being a major weapon in any one area.

• I do view Bradley as being a major defensive weapon (in ways that can act as an offensive catalyst).

• I view Bass not as a weapon on the order of KG, Pierce, Rondo, Terry or even Bradley, but he provides assets at PF that Sullinger does not—particularly in transition.

The way I'd look at a trade of Lee and Bradley for Gortat or Bass and Bradley for Gortat would be that the Celtics would sacrifice quality depth at two positions to gain quality depth at one position. Either way, they'd be trading at least one major weapon for another major weapon. And they'd be trading considerably more than just a weapon if they included Bass and Bradley.

If they could trade Lee and Collins for Gortat or Lee and Melo for Gortat (both of which would work financially), I'd be inclined to do the deal, especially since it's hoped that Bradley will be back by mid-December. I'd even sweeten it with a draft pick. If they trade one weapon for another weapon, I see them treading water. If they trade one weapon plus an important complementary piece for another weapon, they're losing ground.

Besides, if they were to trade Bradley, Cowens would commit hari kari in no time.

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Re: Would you make a play for Marcin Gortat?

Post by bobheckler on Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:34 pm

The general rule of trades is "whichever team gets the best player, won, regardless of how much they gave up to get him". That was true with the Ray Allen trade (West, Wally and #5), that was true with the KG trade (Big Al, Gomes, Telfair, Gerald Green, Theo Ratliff, some cash and some draft picks) and that was true with the Bass trade (Big Baby and Von Wafer).

If we use this guideline, then which players on the Celtics are better than Gortat, a very serviceable starting center and the best backup center in the league? Those players should be exempted from the trade.


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Re: Would you make a play for Marcin Gortat?

Post by mrkleen09 on Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:39 pm

bobheckler wrote:The general rule of trades is "whichever team gets the best player, won, regardless of how much they gave up to get him". That was true with the Ray Allen trade (West, Wally and #5), that was true with the KG trade (Big Al, Gomes, Telfair, Gerald Green, Theo Ratliff, some cash and some draft picks) and that was true with the Bass trade (Big Baby and Von Wafer).

If we use this guideline, then which players on the Celtics are better than Gortat, a very serviceable starting center and the best backup center in the league? Those players should be exempted from the trade.

By that criteria

Those who should be exempted:

-KG, Pierce, Rondo, Terry, Green, Bradley.

Anyone else is fair game.

Although, I am pretty happy with the team we have right now....so not sure there is a need to make any moves right now.

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Re: Would you make a play for Marcin Gortat?

Post by sinus007 on Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:05 pm

Hi,
I agree with Mrkleen's exemptions with * - Celtics shouldn't trade two of a kind, e.g. BB+Sully.

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Re: Would you make a play for Marcin Gortat?

Post by Outside on Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:33 pm

Miscellaneous thoughts about this.

I voted "Yes, but not give up Bradley."

Gortat is a very good, generally underrated center. He's agile, long, hustles, has skills, is level-headed, and seems smart. He's very good at pick and roll, not particularly great at creating his own shot. He rebounds, defends, and blocks shots. From a basketball standpoint, making a play for him is a no-brainer.

Giving up Bradley doesn't make sense to me. He showed remarkable potential last season. Unless it's a trade for a young all-star, they have to keep this guy.

The "whoever gets the best player in a deal wins" maxim is right most of the time. The classic example of it not being true is in football, when the Vikings gave up five players and eight high draft picks for Herschel Walker and four lower draft picks. I also think the Nuggets got the best of the Carmelo trade with the Knicks.

I'd be okay with giving up two power forwards (Bass and Sullinger) in this case because you'd also gain a power forward -- KG, who would no longer have to play center all the time.

Overall, I think trading for Gortat would be a great idea, and I'm highly skeptical that it will happen.

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Re: Would you make a play for Marcin Gortat?

Post by bobheckler on Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:42 pm

Outside wrote:Miscellaneous thoughts about this.

I voted "Yes, but not give up Bradley."

Gortat is a very good, generally underrated center. He's agile, long, hustles, has skills, is level-headed, and seems smart. He's very good at pick and roll, not particularly great at creating his own shot. He rebounds, defends, and blocks shots. From a basketball standpoint, making a play for him is a no-brainer.

Giving up Bradley doesn't make sense to me. He showed remarkable potential last season. Unless it's a trade for a young all-star, they have to keep this guy.

The "whoever gets the best player in a deal wins" maxim is right most of the time. The classic example of it not being true is in football, when the Vikings gave up five players and eight high draft picks for Herschel Walker and four lower draft picks. I also think the Nuggets got the best of the Carmelo trade with the Knicks.

I'd be okay with giving up two power forwards (Bass and Sullinger) in this case because you'd also gain a power forward -- KG, who would no longer have to play center all the time.

Overall, I think trading for Gortat would be a great idea, and I'm highly skeptical that it will happen.


outside,

I agree with all your points.

The axiom I cited was for basketball only. Due to the relatively few players on a basketball team and the concentration of minutes in only half of them (or less!) the reward for a qualitative upgrade is greater in basketball than it would be in any other sport (table tennis and curling probably would be exceptions).

I doubt it will happen either, but you never know with Trader Danny!


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