Fab Melo did it again

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Re: Fab Melo did it again

Post by beat on Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:20 pm

Guy is not NBA ready period. But I would like to see him when scheduling permits.

I watched the entire game and he'd get eaten up i'm afraid. He's a project. He's really only played hoops a couple years. And as far as other GM's asking about him whose to say they are.... or aren't.

I'll trust the powers that be that say he's no where near ready. Bringing him up and watching him struggle or sit on the bench isn't going to help him develop IMHO.

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Re: Fab Melo did it again

Post by international on Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:41 pm

Celtics fans i agrre with you that Melo is not ready yet to play many minutes with the Celtics,but i think some of you dont Know a kind of prospect is this kid.Of course as Bob say there are many 7-0 feet centers in the D league,but how many of them block 23 shots in 2 games?My opinion is that many of you are undervalue his abilities,and in the past happened with Avery Bradley.I remember how many people were asking for a trade of Bradley because they thought he wasnt a good player.sometimes or some fans tends to not give the value to what they have and need somebody else to say that they are not correct.Joe Johnson,Chauncey Billups ,Big Baby you have history of bad judgements.remember that.

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Re: Fab Melo did it again

Post by NYCelt on Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:46 pm

international wrote:...Joe Johnson,Chauncey Billups ,Big Baby you have history of bad judgements.remember that.

No debate there!

Fortunately not all of it made by the current Celtics administration.

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Re: Fab Melo did it again

Post by sam on Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:20 pm

International,

In the video I've watched of Melo, he has displayed good timing on some of his blocks. But many of the guys he has played against are shorter than he is and/or have tended to telegraph their shots. In playing good defense, footwork and position are usually more important than blocks, even though blocks get the headlines. Melo has a long way to go on these parts of the game—especially because he'd be up against much higher caliber offensive players in the NBA

On offense, Melo hits a hook occasionally but isn't at all consistent in beating defensive players to his spot. Too often, he forces shots that are line drives or low-percentage heaves that don't even catch iron. He doesn't seem to have a "go to" shot except when he's in good position to dunk the ball.

In no way am I saying Melo's a lost cause because he certainly has talent. But one can see why Danny and Doc decided to get another DL big (even though he's not really a center) and give Melo more time to hone his craft.

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Re: Fab Melo did it again

Post by cowens/oldschool on Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:18 am

He has a skill. Hes 7 foot tall and young legs.


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Re: Fab Melo did it again

Post by beat on Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:33 am

One other thing

check the rosters of the team he just played NO CENTER even started, 3 guards and 2 forwards, no one on the roster is over 6-10.

Many teams are in the same boat with no 7 footers on their rosters.

also the Idaho team has a record of 1-11.

As NYCelt mentioned the league is a little below the better college D-1 conferences perhaps. He's learning but as Sam mentioned he's lost on offense unless he finds himself 2-3 feet from the hoop with the ball. Some of those misses in the last game had absolutely no chance of going in.

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Re: Fab Melo did it again

Post by international on Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:25 am

Again ,with you comments you are giving me the reason to say that i am right .Instead of being talking about the good skills and the projection of the young 7 feet center you are talking about ...how bad is the league he is playing,his poor offense,and many negative thing that i cant understand.And you know what the worst thing is that many of you have this in the past,you did it with Joe Johnson,Billups,Avery Bradley,Gerard Green,Tony Allen and mostly with Kendrick Perkins.Many times i got mad when i read that Perks was slow,he had no offense,he was foul prone,he had hands like bricks and you know what the kid was and is a valuable player that we are missing a lot.Forgive for what i am going to say ,but right now there is not much difference between you and the Dudder and that is a shame.

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Re: Fab Melo did it again

Post by MDCelticsFan on Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:39 am

International:

Wow! The Dudder, now there's a Blast from the Past! Celts need to Melo In, not Out. This Celtic team gets blown out by many of the good teams. Playoffs are NOT a given for this team. Standing pat with this group is a major mistake. When Rondo falls short against Paul and other top flight PGS, it shows some of his short comings and even diminishes his trade value for any potential major trade. There are NO Elliot Nesses on this Celtic team No One is UNTOUCHABLE!

MD!

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Re: Fab Melo did it again

Post by beat on Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:30 am

International

Stats are stats.... they don't lie

KID has had 1 game where he shot 8-9 from the line, I pointed out his career numbers 55% and even with that game a mere 67% from the line this season,

I have hope he can be a center for us down the road but it isn't happening this year maybe never,

I watched this gut play 1 1/2 years at SU and he pretty much under preformed against good competition. Most of that is the fact the kid hasn't played the sport that long.

Now your resorting to calling me Dudder?? What gives??

Look at the teams he's playing, the quality of them, he's played 11 DL games so far and has had 2 very good ones statistically. 2 out of 11, against DL level competition.

And as I mentioned to your apparent blind eyes, I'd like to see him moved up from time to time and get his feet wet up with the big boys but it appears the brain trust of the C's feel it is best for him to stay put and learn the game. I can't argue with that.

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Re: Fab Melo did it again

Post by hawksnestbeach on Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:08 pm

Bob, Thanks for the link to the Red Claws' game. Melo's rough around the edges, but after watching the beating we took from the Clippers, I'd like to see him in green this winter. I know it will be painful, but watching our vets get crunched is worse; there's no upside. They're learning they can't win against younger talent.
We need a young center desperately. We have a center who isn't playing in Boston and IMO he looks better than Mikki, Sheldon, Scal, Jermine, Shaq, Sheed, Jason, Darko, even Steamer, who came out of the same DL to give us the lift we needed last year.
Analysis of what to do comes down to how you view our prospects this season; I think we're going nowhere without another big man. To win consistently, we need two standouts, a third contributor and no weak links. Right now, we're got a bunch of guys who would be okay as the 4th and 5th men, but other than Rondo, no one who can consistently dominate. I think KG and PP will rise to the challenge in the playoffs, but without a center and much improved Green, it won't be enough.
To do the nearly impossible this year, I think we should bring up Melo, start Green and Lee, and let PP run the second unit. There'd be a lot less confusion about who's running the show with Rondo commanding one unit and the Captain, the other. Egos could be a problem, but that's where excellent coaching comes in. Essentially, with our roster, we have no first unit, but we do have enough talent for two good units. As long as several guys get significant PT, I still have hope. Hawk




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Re: Fab Melo did it again

Post by international on Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:29 pm

In my country we have a saying....my wine is sour,but is my wine.Celtics fans sometimes tends to believe that the others teams players are better than theirs.Frankly i cant see much difference between Festus Ezeli and Fab Melo,Ezeli plays over 20 minutes and his numbers are 2 points and 3 rebounds ,i think Melo can do that easily.Ezeli is eaw like Melo,his offense needs improvement ,but he has the confidence that the team give him.I think melo'"s development is encouraging and his stroke from the line is fluid also he is lookind sound in deffense and with his wingspan he can be a deffensive forse.The mistake from the past with Tony Allen,Perks,and Big Baby cant be repeated,trust in your young players thats only what i am asking.

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Re: Fab Melo did it again

Post by beat on Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:58 pm

Then why the name calling International?

I've seen this kid for about 20-25 college games the past 2 seasons, as a frosh he was used little but did show vast improvement in his abbreviated 2nd season, and even at that level he was "fair" at best no offensive moves to speak of plus got in foul trouble much to easily.

Kid has only played the game a couple years before going to SU, he's still learning. IMHO let him play tons of minutes in the D league, work on some moves, learn the game by playing it not getting basically garbage time minutes up here.

He's a project plain and simple.

Isn't there a saying about serving wine before it's time too?

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Re: Fab Melo did it again

Post by NYCelt on Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:21 pm

International,

To be fair, you need to understand that beat and I both live near Syracuse, NY and both have seen Melo play in person. Beat has seen him play a good number of games live and I have seen a few also. Because of regional broadcasts, and being fans, what games we haven't seen from the stands we've seen on TV...probably second in number only to Celtics games. Our opinions don't have to be the only ones and we both hope we turn out to be wrong. We're only relaying what we've seen first-hand.

Having met beat a couple of times and from communicating with him regularly over a number of years I can promise you he's the exact opposite of Dudder.

I will say seeing Dudder's name brought me a laugh; I wonder what he's up to these days?

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Re: Fab Melo did it again

Post by beat on Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:06 pm

International

Here take a look at his game by game totals as a freshman at Syracuse 2 short years ago. Only one game did he play more than 20 minutes. Why because a certain HOF coach wanted to bring him along slower as he was just a newbee to the game. Unfortunately Melo left the team last season, apparently due to academics. He is a kid that would have greatly benefited from another year or 2 in college but he's getting his minutes in the D league instead.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/fab-melo-1/gamelog/2011/

Now look at the following season at SU, only 1 game where he had 10 rebounds and this is for the guy that played defense in the back center of the 2-3 zone and was closest to the basket. He improved but still has so far to go.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/fab-melo-1/gamelog/2012/

There is really not much in these stats that jump out at you. Again the kid needs to play not sit. 2-3 minutes, couple points and rebounds a game up here won't do.

As I noted on my original post on this thread, getting to the line 9 times to me is much more important than the fact he made 8. If he can continue to get 7,8,or 9 or more opportunities at the line, perhaps that means his offensive moves are coming along. But they were not evident the past 2 years at Syracuse.

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Re: Fab Melo did it again

Post by bobheckler on Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:02 pm

Here are Fab Melo's current D-league stats:

http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/fab_melo/index.html?nav=page


He's averaging over 25mpg. That's VERY good for him, not just because, as beat pointed out he only played over 20 minutes once two years ago and not once at all last year (if I'm understanding beat correctly). That means he has no experience at playing serious minutes. Steamer didn't play a lot of minutes at Wisconsin either, but he got minutes overseas. Melo is getting his minutes within the Celtics organization, no doubt playing a lot of Doc's schemes. He's paying his dues for his late blooming, just like Steamer did, and Steamer paid them for years. It has only been a few months for Melo.

Despite these two statistically outstanding games in a row, he's still only averaging only 10.4ppg, 6.7rpg and 3.9bpg. What this tells me is that, in his previous 8 games, his numbers were so bad that these two games couldn't make up for them. He's also averaging only .3apg with 1.5TOpg. I don't expect a big man to be good in the assists-to-TO ratio department, but .3:1.5 is quite bad and that's against D-league talent.

Remember Micah Downs, the toothpick we had in camp this year? He's averaging 7.7rpg. Dujuan Summers, a 6'8", 240# forward is averaging 6.8rpg. So, despite having these two really good rebounding game by Melo, there are still two starters outrebounding him. He is by far the biggest starter and he is #3 in rebounding.

I'd love for Melo to be ready, absolutely love it, but based upon what I saw in the video above (and this was one of those big games you are touting) he is not ready.

I'm a fan of players from south of the border, especially Argentineans but also Brazilians and Puerto Ricans. Argentineans are some tough, tough hombres. I was very happy when The Brazilian Blur, Leandro Barbosa, was signed by the Celtics. I thought Puerto Rican guard Ramon Sessions was unfairly unappreciated in LA and I think they made a mistake not resigning him (judging by the inferior quality of their point guard play, I feel vindicated). I'd love to have Varajao in green. I admit I'm not a big fan of Euros, but I make exception for frenchmen (Parker and Batum were born in France; Turiaf, Pietrus and Seraphin were born in French territories in the Carribean). They don't seem to be as soft as western Euro players tend to be in general.

Melo needs to put up big numbers, maybe not this big, on a regular basis. Consistency is much more important than highlights. He's playing against D-leaguers and if he can't own them, then he's got no chance against NBA-ers. Doc just won't play him and, if he cannot be confident in what he'll get from Melo when he does play, he shouldn't. Two monster games out of 10 games is a start, that's all. If he turns in these performances more regularly, then we'll, but twice out of ten tries? If a baseball player batted .200 he'd be in the minors too...

He's getting 25.4mpg now. He wouldn't get 25.4 minutes in a month in Boston. During the season, practices become rare. You watch video, spend time in the gym working on your individual game and do skeleton drills and walk-throughs. Does the #15 player on a team even do the skeletons, or does he just stand on the sidelines and watch 1-10 do them? Melo needs to play. He needs to play so that this all becomes instinctual to him and he doesn't have to think about where he should be and what he should do. When everything is new, you think before you react and as Doc said last night "thinking makes us into non-athletes". Melo's athleticism is hurt because he has to think about everything more than players who have been doing this since they were little children.

According to Jared Sullinger's father, Jared was shooting free throws with a regulation ball when he was 3 years old. Melo never even picked up a basketball until his mid-teens. No junior league, no YMCA or CYO league, no after school pickup games before he was 15. None. He just realized he was too big for soccer and changed direction. It takes more than that, though. When he moved to Florida at 17, he couldn't play his first year because of international transfer rules. Another year where he couldn't catch up developmentally with his peers. He played one season of college ball, in the back of a zone (which is NOT NBA ball) and part of another season. He didn't play in the NCAA tournament his second year, which would really have told us something about how ready he was to play against superior talent in pressure games.

If we call him up now, he'll be useless, because he's not ready. Give him another month or two or more of 25mpg and he's got a better chance.

Throwing him to the wolves just because we need help at center doesn't help him and it doesn't help us either.


bob


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Re: Fab Melo did it again

Post by beat on Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:23 pm

Bob

first year at SU he played only 20 minutes once, second year several times
he played more than 20. Just to clarify.

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Re: Fab Melo did it again

Post by Matty on Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:05 pm

well here is a solution: play melo both in the D league and in the C's jerseys:

the claws have a short break between dec. 31 and Jan 4
Boston hase a game on the 2nd

they have another break between jan 12 & 18th
Boston has games on 14th & 16th

claws break between 1- 21 & 1- 24
boston has a game on 1-22

between 1-27 & 2-7 the claws only have 2 games
boston however plays on 1-30, 2-1, 2-3, & 2-6

in march between the 10th and 14th there are no games
boston has games on the 12th & 13th

between the 17th and 20th the claws have no games
boston has 1 on the 18th

between march 23- 28 the claws have no games
boston has 2, on the 26th and 27th

between march 28th & april 5th the claws have no games
boston has games on march 29th, 30th, april 1 and april 3rd

between april 5 and april 9 the claws have no games
the celtics have one on april 7th

after the 9th the claws would only have playoffs games
however Melo could join the Celtics instrad for for games on the 10th, 12th, 13th, 16th and 17th.. then the playoffs.


that would cost Fab 2 Claw games not including the playoffs, but would allow him to be around the Vets for a total of 22 games + playoffs.

but im betting he'd be dang tired come playoffs... though past expereince says another body - especialy a big is invalubale to us in the post season.


**I DONT think its feasible of course... just thought id toss it out there..

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Re: Fab Melo did it again

Post by worcester on Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:04 am

Gentlemen, consider Sam's often used word: CONTINUITY.

Inserting such a raw rookie into the lineup would certainly disrupt continuity.

So I don't see Melo as a short term solution. Moreover, not only will he not get the playing/learning minutes he so urgently and evidently needs, but his psyche will be at risk. Getting embarrassed by seasoned pros is not a good way to develop the self confidence and skills needed to be an NBA player. Doc has such a proven track record developing players (Big Al, Ryan Gomes, Big Baby, Rondo, Avery Bradley, Steemer) that I'm one to trust his judgment on these matters. Think the tortoise and the hare fable here.

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Re: Fab Melo did it again

Post by sam on Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:11 am

To no one in particular,

Hopefully, Danny will trade for at least a good backup center rather than bringing up an inconsistent young kid with many holes in his game who would very likely muck up the chemistry even more than it is already mucked up. I'd also like to see Danny add an experienced point guard for the bench. But, for the most part, what you see is the team that's going to take the Celtics as far as they'll go this season.

Doc realizes that the primary ongoing emphasis has to be on improving the chemistry.. Time, comfort with roles, and repetitions combine to represent the best pathway to chemistry improvement. It may not be an exciting way to go because chemistry isn't built in a day—just as was the case in each of the last two seasons, when injuries slowed the formation of the chemistry that generated dividends by April.

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Re: Fab Melo did it again

Post by tardust on Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:25 am

I think what International was trying to say was something like this. We could be the 8th seed with Collins, or the 8th seed with Melo. If he got brought up and was not playing that would definitely not be good. Some time on a regular basis might be if he was only focusing on defense, rebounding, and shot blocking. I am not saying whats right or wrong here, only there are more than 1 way to look at it.

Doc chooses his way to develop players. Other teams choose other ways. Would Lillard be playing if he was on the Celtics? Probably not, he would probably be in the D league as well. Some teams like to throw guys in the fire and see how they react.

I know I am on a short list here but unless your title contending with guys then I like getting rookies playing time. Speeding up their comfort zone in the NBA. Would changing Melo for Collins make a huge difference? I doubt it, not at 15 minutes a game.

With all that said, Doc knows more than me so I will stick with their observations. I just think back to when we had people like Raef getting most of the minutes for a bad team and Jefferson pretty much playing about 15 minutes a game. I know I was probably complaining daily of why not give the Al time. Turns out, that just the way Doc does things. With all the guys we say Doc has developed, who is to say they couldn't have gotten where they got a lot earlier if they had gotten the playing time?

Is Melo ready for prime time? Definitely not but the upside is huge compared to Collins. Of course I would definitely like to have a seasoned veteran that could "take over" at times. Hopefully we can get that player. I am pretty much comparing Collins with Melo. Someone else at center changes my view considerably. I guess you could say I am not a big Collins supporter.

OK start the flogging.

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