POST GAME ATLANTA

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Re: POST GAME ATLANTA

Post by mulcogiseng on Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:46 pm

I've got to lay this on Doc. He's the coach. I can't see blaming Rondo for walking it up the court. If that is not what Doc wants then he needs to call Rondo out for it. Doc really hasn't changed anything since AB returned. He needs to start being the Coach and demand that the team play the way he wants. Or he needs to shake up the lineup. This team, as constituted, can win a championship this year. We have seen the glimmers and they say winners. But this inconsistent play? That has to be on Doc.

As many have said, sit Paul, let him dominate the other teams second unit. If Paul plays at the end of the game they can't run an iso for him. He always gets doubled and he almost always loses the ball. If he can get off a shot he might just make it. He is still that good. Unfortunately he is not good enuf for hero ball and he hasnt been for several years. He has to be either the third or fourth option during crunch time.

Time to give Fab a chance. He can commute to home games until he proves he can stay full time. Otherwise Danny has to pull the trigger on a trade. That may come at any time and everyone is up for discussion. (Yes, even Rondo, and you all know how I feel about him) What is important is the Celtic legacy, not this or any individual Celtics team or season.

This team can still win a Championship this season. But sumthins gotta give.

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Re: POST GAME ATLANTA

Post by bobheckler on Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:03 pm

Up by 27 and lose? Up by 19 at halftime and lose? Score a total of only 13 points in two OTs? Zero points scored in the 2OT with only 1 1/2 minutes left? After 5 straight losses?

Pick up the phone, Danny.

The first half was beautiful, absolutely beautiful. Yes, they made a run to cut a 27 point deficit down to 19, but 19 should have done it. We ran, all the time. We got the rebound and the rebounder immediately turned around and looked up court to make a long outlet pass. We had the ball at half court, or over halfcourt in no time flat. In one sequence KG dribbled the ball all the way to half court, calling on someone to come back for a pass, because all our guys were already at their end of the court. That's the way to run! It was absolutely textbook, old school Celtic basketball. We made the extra pass both full and half court. We executed very, very well. And then...

We. Just. Stopped. All the good things we were doing, we just stopped doing them and reverted back to doing all the bad things that earned us the 5 game losing streak heading into last night. I don't get it, I truly do not. Couldn't they feel it? Couldn't they see it, smell it, sense it? Didn't they realize that the way they played in the first half was it, that elusive chemistry/mojo/tempo they have been searching for all year? That was, by far, the best half of the year, so there could have been no possibility of confusing it with some other game. That was it. It was there, to be had, and then it was like Kaiser Soze. He's there and then, just like that, he's gone.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=V1tmkAFb_Os


1. One of the best pure shooting exhibitions by Kyle Korver I've ever seen. Kyrie Irving lit us up a few days earlier, but that was on a variety of shots. Korver just came off of pick after pick after pick and drained 3s that didn't even move the net when they went through it. They just hit the back of the rim at just the right angle and went straight down. Why, I ask, didn't the pick defender step out and contest Korver's shot, since his man was getting rubbed off by the pick (not by much, but the ball barely touched Korver's hands and it was off. Even faster than Ray's). Hell, just make him hesitate for a split second! Interrupt his rhythm!

2. What is dismaying me about Pierce is not that his shot is flat. He really shouldn't play as many minutes. What bothers me is that he is making one boneheaded decision after another, night after night. He is playing really, really dumb. I think Doc needs to tell Pierce he's getting a night off, or at least he's not going to play more than 20-25 minutes. Relax. Enjoy. Cheerlead. Wave a towel, do whatever you want, but don't think you're going to play a lot of minutes. He turned, once again, into a hero-baller last night and it cost us. With 2:00 left in regulation, and the Celts ahead by 2, he threw up a 3pt miss that was completely unnecessary. Teague and Horford had 5 fouls them, there were a lot of inside options or Rondo taking it to Teague to consider, but he didn't consider them. He wanted to be a Hero and win it in regulation. Pierce is a smart player, right? He'll learn from that and not do it again, right? Wrong. Exactly 1 minute later, at 1:00 and with the Celts still up by 2, he threw up another 3pt miss that was unnecessary. With only a minute left, a good old-fashioned 2pt bucket to put us up by 4 would have won it. He ended up 4-13 for the night and, you can guess this is coming, 0-5 from 3. When was the last time a Pierce iso buzzerbeater worked?

3. A great, big-hearted game by KG wasted.

4. Rondo needed two OTs to get his triple-double. He also had 6 TOs. If only he could curb his ego a bit, he wouldn't make as many overly aggressive passes that turn into turnovers. At one point, he was running a fast break. That's good! He has somebody running to the front of the rim, dragging a defender down with him. That's good! He has Bradley on the far wing running to the corner. Bradley had no chance of getting to the rim in time, so that's ok. Rondo had some daylight in front of him. What does he do? Does he keep taking it into the paint? Does he kick it to Bradley for the 3? No. He tries the very difficult over-the-top lob to the guy at the rim when the defender was with him. The idea of having a runner dragging the defender down there with him is to clear a path for you. If he's still guarded DON'T PASS IT TO HIM! He repeatedly passed into double and triple teams, with the predictably poor results.

5. The only Atlanta starter who had a negative +/- was Ivan Johnson, who only played 18 minutes (and a lot of them were in the beginning of the game when we were hot). EVERY Celtic starter was a negative +/-. That is NOT a good performing unit.

6. I usually give Jason Terry hell, but I can't this time. He hit his shots, he played hard. He had a good game.

7. As Rosalie said, on the Game On thread, "Lee has been awesome tonight". He really was. He was very solid and active on both ends. 5-10 for 16 points, 4 assists, 2 steals and 0 TOs and, of course, his usually sticky defense. He is finally hitting his stride. How much do you want to bet he's the one that goes? He's playing well, is young and has trade value. He would also match up well straight up $-wise with JJ Redick too, I think. I'd hate to see him go, but we need to change something here. Zero points after playing 3 1/2 minutes of the 2nd OT!!

8. Jeff Green had a great game too. Very aggressive and did a good job of making life for Josh Smith (7-20 for 17 points, but 14 boards, 5 of them offensive) hard. Green had 10 points in his first 8 minutes of play and then, just like the rest of the team, he got passive. While Bass had a beyond miserable offensive night, he did an excellent job of forcing Smith into a lot of misses in the first half.

9. At halftime we had 16 fast break points vs 6 for them. The game ended 24-24. They ran in the 2nd half and our transition defense was non-existent. At halftime, we were shooting 53% vs 31% for them. The game ended 45%-45%. At halftime, our bench outscored theirs 26-5, a 21 point difference that was almost all of our 19 point lead at halftime. The game ended with our bench still vastly outscoring theirs 45-21, a 24 point difference. So, the bench continued to outperform their counterparts, even in the disasterous 2nd half.

10. We're all talking about how Paul Pierce has lost it. I'm starting to think Doc has lost it too. When the lead evaporated he told his team in a timeout "you got yourselves into this, you figure out how to get out of it" (as reported by Greg Dickerson at courtside). That's coaching? No, that's throwing up your hands and handing the keys to the asylum to the patients. He called a very good call after a timeout, which he is famous for, but has no period ending plays other than a Pierce iso. To quote Rosalie, once again, from the Game On thread "Doc....you are so predictable". Everybody knew it was going to be a Pierce iso. Everybody. I think the only players that are listening to Doc now are KG, Bradley, Sully, Lee and Green. Everybody else is doing Hero ball. 2OT game and Barbosa plays 3 minutes. Rondo plays 45. Pierce is having an awful game and he plays 40 and is given the keys to the kingdom like he's on a tear. Green is playing well and he plays 30. Sam and I disagree on this, and I understand and respect his view on it, but clearly the approach of "feed the hot hand" worked tonight for Atlanta with Korver singlehandedly bringing them back from the dead and didn't work with Boston counting on their aging, poorly performing go-to guy to save them. If Doc doesn't believe in Hero Ball, then why doesn't he use some other play out of a timeout at game-end besides a Pierce iso?

I don't have an ulcer but I know what they are supposed to feel like. I should give myself one, just so I can have an excuse for the way my stomach feels right now.


bob



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Last edited by bobheckler on Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:04 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: POST GAME ATLANTA

Post by sinus007 on Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:01 pm

Sam,
Just to answer 2 of your points.
I mentioned JC's +20 because I wanted to show how screwed up this game was. I agree with you about this stat.

About Doc's bluff. There was a lot of "commotion" after his recent remark about "restructuring" the team. Some suggested that nothing of that sort is going to happen - he's just bluffing, trying to stir the pot.

AK

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Re: POST GAME ATLANTA

Post by sam on Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:32 pm

Sinus, I don't believe Doc is bluffing. In other recent years when the team was floundering, he had consistently talked about how he loved the guys on this team. I haven't heard or read syllable one about that this season.

Let's face it. If three-quarters of a roster is new to a team that has an extremely strong culture, tradition, and approach to games, odds are high that not every newcomer will acclimate well or at the same rate. I really do think every player is trying hard, but a lot of them are trying their own ways, not the Celtics' way.

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Re: POST GAME ATLANTA

Post by bobc33 on Sat Jan 26, 2013 5:40 pm

While I was looking for the panic button, which gyso thoughtfully provided, a thought about the current slide came to me.

Many of the current forum members met on the old BDC site when the Celtics roster contained Michael Olowkandi, Allen Ray, Kevin Pinckney, Theo Radcliffe ( and his famous expiring contract), Sebastian Telfair, Gerald Green et al and we rooted like heck for them.

Not that I'm predicting a continuing slide, but if we followed and rooted for that team I think we'll root for any Celtics team, and the camaraderie of being a fan of the Green and members of this forum is worth a lot by itself.

That said, come on Doc and Danny let's light that fire and get this team playing to its potential!

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Re: POST GAME ATLANTA

Post by RosalieTCeltics on Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:30 pm

I think that someone is going, there is no doubt in my mind. Who? Maybe someone who will shock us. However, after the trade of Perkins I thought maybe Danny had learned a lesson. Then, last year he just about traded Ray.

No matter what, no matter how frustrated we get, there is one common denominator. We all love the Boston Celtics. I can only hope that tomorrow's game helps them start to right a sinking ship.

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Re: POST GAME ATLANTA

Post by 112288 on Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:46 pm

Pierce is the most logical to go first. Celtics save a ton of money this year and next. PP will not accept $5m next year...he'll want KG numbers......and he is not worth it. He is a bench player now but he still thinks he is a starter.

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Re: POST GAME ATLANTA

Post by mulcogiseng on Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:13 pm

As was mentioned in another thread, PP salary for next year is 15.33 million not 5 million. that figure is a buyout figure should the C's and PP agree to part ways. If he stays, if he is traded, he gets the 15.33 next year. If he gets released he gets 5 million plus what he gets in the new contract.

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Re: POST GAME ATLANTA

Post by sam on Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:53 pm

112288,

Mulcogi's right (and I believe it was TJ before him).

The only way Pierce would get as little as $5 million from the Celtics is if he were bought out by the Celtics (and then he'd be free to negotiate an additional contract elsewhere). If he stays with the Celtics, he'd be paid $15 million by the Celtics. In neither case would he be asked to play for the Celtics at a salary of $5 million. As I understand it, it's not even a legal possibility.

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Re: POST GAME ATLANTA

Post by steve3344 on Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:34 pm

If the Celtics think they're cold, here 's a Division 1 college team that scored 4 points in the first half (on 1 for 31 shooting) and had only 13 points with 4 minutes to play before a late surge enabled them to avoid the all-time low record for fewest points in a game:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger/northern-illinois-sets-record-futility-four-point-first-224748021--ncaab.html

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Re: POST GAME ATLANTA

Post by sinus007 on Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:11 am

Hi,
I don't think that getting rid of PP, whichever way, is a short term solution.
IMHO, if DA trades him or buys him out (whatever), it'll break the core of the team which automatically put it into a full rebuild mode (= long term).
I don't know what happens in the next 4 weeks but I hope they don't touch RR, Sully, AB and Lee, maybe JG. They can build a very good team with these guys. It's just my gut feeling.

AK

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Re: POST GAME ATLANTA

Post by 112288 on Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:33 am

Sam,

The Celtics can use the amnesty provision on Pierce so they are not charged against the cap.

Here's the exact Amnesty Clause from the last proposal via USA Today. The Amnesty Clause is reportedly the same in the current proposal. Update: Here's the current proposal via Sam Amick of SI.com. The language is identical.

Each team permitted to waive 1 player prior to any season of the CBA (only for contracts in place at the inception of the CBA) and have 100% of the player's salary removed from team salary for Cap and Tax purposes.

Salary of amnestied players included for purposes of calculating players' agreed-upon share of BRI.

A modified waiver process would be utilized for players waived pursuant to the Amnesty rule, under which teams with Room under the Cap could submit competing offers to assume some but not all of the player's remaining contract. If a player's contract is claimed in this manner, the remaining portion of the player's salary will continue to be paid by the team that waived him.

2010 13,876,321 - - 13,876,321
2011 15,333,334 - - 15,333,334
2012 16,790,345 - - 16,790,345
2013 15,333,334 - - 15,333,334 Player option

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Re: POST GAME ATLANTA

Post by sam on Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:50 am

112288,

The issue I'm addressing involves your comment (if I understood it right) that Pierce wouldn't be willing to play for only $5 million next season. But the only reason he'd receive as little as $5 million from the Celtics is if he does NOT play for them (whether they waive him or amnesty him). If he plays for them next season, they'll owe him $15 million.

Amnesty is basically a cap maneuver and doesn't affect the amount of salary owed to the player. I don't understand the connection between amnesty and your comment I've paraphrased above.

Sorry if I'm missing something.

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Re: POST GAME ATLANTA

Post by 112288 on Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:43 am

Sam,

No you are right. He get $5 M and walks away and signs elsewhere. It was posted elsewhere by someone that it was a base salary of $5M, so I was mistaken.

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Re: POST GAME ATLANTA

Post by 112288 on Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:06 am

Sam,

This is how it works.

Amnesty clause

A team is allowed to waive one player without having the remaining portion of the contract count towards the salary cap and/or luxury tax.

Teams can bid on a player that has been amnestied. They are allowed to bid by only what space they have under the cap. The highest bid claims the player and the team that placed the player on waivers via amnesty is required to pay the remaining portion of the salary (not counted against the cap).

Example: Player A is waived from Team A via the amnesty clause and has $12 million owed. If Team B bids $2 million and Team C bids $4 million, Team C would claim Player A off waivers for the $4 million. Team A would be required to pay $8 million to Player A, but does not count against the cap.

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Re: POST GAME ATLANTA

Post by sam on Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:35 am

112288,

No biggie. It will be very interesting to see what happens with Pierce, especially if his performance doesn't improve rapidly. Frankly, even when he was at his best, I was always concerned that his preferred style of play clashed with Rondo's style of play and accounted for the fact that I never felt their offense operated at its optimum. Now, with Pierce seemingly unable to play at his peak and Rondo controlling the offense to an ever-greater degree, my concerns are heightened.

Here's an example of how statistics can be deceptive:

• Pierce is currently averaging his highest rebound total (per 36 minutes) in 8 seasons.

• Pierce is currently averaging his second-highest assist total (per 36 minutes) in 5 seasons.

• Pierce is currently averaging his second-highest point total (per 36 minutes) in six seasons.

• Pierce is currently averaging his highest steals figure (per 36 minutes) in 8 seasons.

• Pierce's current turnover figure isn't great, but it's only his 7th worst (per 36 minutes) in his 15 seasons, and it's below his career average.

Now these are season-to-date figures, and I have to assume all or most have taken a hit in the most recent games; so, in terms of recent trends, all bets are off in terms of these statistical comparisons.

The skeptic in me doesn't want to believe that Paul has lost so much of all his abilities in such a short period of time. It just doesn't make sense to me. And, as that noted basketball expert, Judge Judy, says, "If it doesn't make sense, it's probably not true."

I'm one of the people who believes there's stuff going on—some combination of attitudes, power struggles, styles of play, effort levels, whatever—that we don't know about. And it could very well be that, in one way or another, Paul's being adversely affected as much as, or more than, the other players.

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Re: POST GAME ATLANTA

Post by 112288 on Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:53 am

Sam,

I think a night off or at least 4-5 days could help Pierce get his game back. The other alternative is to have Green start and have Pierce come off the bench. Het Doc did that with Bradley and Allen, why not try it here.

You are correct in saying many things are happening behind the scene. As I keep harping....begin with some role player changes now and work your way to a bigger deal in the summer. Wonder if Terry would go back to Dallas for OJ Mayo. I bet D. Howard signs with Dallas. No state income tax in Texas and on a max contract that could mean $$$millions of hard dollars he keeps each year.

Here is excerpt from Mickelson

California voters in November approved Proposition 30, which, in addition to raising the state sales tax, carries a menu of new tax brackets that hit millionaires like Mickelson hard. For income exceeding $1 million, the state rate jumped to 13.3 percent from 10.3 percent. For Mickelson, who earned roughly $60 million in 2012, that would be a tax increase of more than $1.8 million.

"If you add up all the federal and you look at the disability and the unemployment and the Social Security and the state, my tax rate's 62, 63 percent," Mickelson said. "So I've got to make some decisions on what I'm going to do."

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Re: POST GAME ATLANTA

Post by sam on Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:08 am

BobH,

I think you've got a little different definition of our difference of opinion than I have.

I do NOT at all disagree with feeding the hot hand. Cripes, my boy Sam Jones was the beneficiary of many such situations.

What I specifically disagree with is the notion of jerking guys with strong track records out of any given game just because they are in what could easily be short-term shooting slumps. To continue with my Sam Jones analogy, there were games in which Sam would brick several shots in a row. Red would always say something like, "Keep shooting. That's what you're out there for" In fact, more often than not, Red would make it a point to call plays that got Sam relatively easy shots in order to try to jump-start his inner battery.

Red knew that, when you have a normally dependable asset who's struggling in a given game, you don't abandon such an important asset in the middle of the game. You continue to support the valuable asset so as to get him back on track a.s.a.p.

Note that I specified "in the middle of any given game", which is what we were talking about when we disagreed. Obviously, if a player—even a long-term asset such as Pierce—isn't cutting it for an extended period of time, changes in some form have to be considered.

Sam

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Re: POST GAME ATLANTA

Post by gyso on Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:12 am

Phil Mickelson's numbers are made up in his head, read on . . .

The truth behind the taxes:

http://money.cnn.com/2013/01/23/news/economy/mickelson-taxes/index.html

Regardless of Mickelson's top rates, his actual income tax bill isn't anywhere near one-half of his income. While it's hard to tell what the golfer really pays without seeing his tax returns, millionaires pay roughly 26% of their income in federal taxes, on average, according to William McBride, chief economist at the Tax Foundation. This doesn't take into account other taxes, such as property levies.


We have discussed the reality of income taxes in any given state before. The reality is that if a state doesn't have a state income tax, they will get their money in another way. Property tax, room and meal tax, whatever.

The important number may be called something like total (or average) tax burden. That number would be different from person to person, depending on so many variables.

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Re: POST GAME ATLANTA

Post by gyso on Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:18 am

Here is another article on Phil Mickelson's feelings on taxes:

Phil Mickelson regrets airing opinion on taxes:


Mickelson, regarded as the "People's Choice" for his connection with fans, put his popularity on the line with polarizing comments about how much he has to pay in state and federal taxes. The four-time major champion said it might lead to "drastic changes," such as moving from his native California, and that it already caused him to pull out of the San Diego Padres' new ownership group.

His only regret was not keeping his opinion to himself.

"Finances and taxes are a personal matter, and I should not have made my opinions on them public," Mickelson said in a statement released Monday night. "I apologize to those I have upset or insulted, and assure you I intend not to let it happen again."

http://www.myfoxboston.com/story/20647334/phil-mickelson-regrets-airing-opinion-on-taxes

Google "Phil Mickelson taxes" and you will find more of the same

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