Sources: Clippers, Celtics discussing Kevin Garnett trade

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Sources: Clippers, Celtics discussing Kevin Garnett trade

Post by 112288 on Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:11 am

YAHOO SPORTS
By Adrian Wojnarowski and Marc J. Spears | Yahoo! Sports – 8 hours ago

HOUSTON — The Boston Celtics and Los Angeles Clippers have been discussing a deal to trade forward Kevin Garnett for guard Eric Bledsoe and center DeAndre Jordan, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.
There are differing factions within the Celtics and Clippers on the prudence of the deal, but the two teams have been in regular contact about the possibility, sources said.

Kevin Garnett would have to waive his no-trade clause and accept a deal to the Clippers. (AP)
Nevertheless, the biggest hurdle could ultimately center on Garnett's willingness to waive his no-trade clause and accept a deal to the Clippers.

Because of his home in Malibu, and a close relationship with Clippers guard Chauncey Billups, there's hope that Garnett, a 15-time All-Star, could be coaxed into accepting a trade if an agreement is reached, sources said.
The Clippers had expressed reluctance to several teams about parting with Bledsoe until they were certain that Chris Paul would re-sign this summer to a long-term deal, sources said. The organization has become increasingly confident that Paul will stay, but every franchise decision is made within the context of how it will impact Paul, and how he feels about it.

There's strong sentiment within parts of the organization that Garnett gives the Clippers a chance to compete for a championship this season. He could spread the floor for the Clippers and open up the lane for Blake Griffin. In the short term, the re-emergence of Billups could cut into Bledsoe's minutes the rest of this season.
For the Celtics, Bledsoe, 23, and Jordan, 24 would give Boston two young players with significant upside to start a revamp of the roster. With Rajon Rondo returning next season from an ACL injury, it's unclear how the Celtics would proceed, but it could ultimately give them a chance to use a healthy Rondo in trade scenarios.

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Re: Sources: Clippers, Celtics discussing Kevin Garnett trade

Post by dboss on Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:57 am

This looks to me like another bad trade for Boston.

Bledsoe is a very average PG in this his 3rd year in the NBA. I am not sure how much real upside he has becasue he is not the type of PG that has shown the ability to run an offense. He is more of a shooter 9.6 PPG albeit an average one .453 this year ,432 for his carreer. His average assists per game remain 3.3 this year and 3.1 carreer. He avergaes 2 TO per game which would be great if the was in the 8+ assist category.

Many have marveled at Jordans athleticism. But lets not get too carried away with a guy that can jump and scores most of his baskets on alleyopps.
This is Jordan's 5th year and he has upped his average to a whopping 9 PPG and 7.3 rebounds. This guy is really very athletic but he lacks the all around skills to even consider any significant upside. He averages less than 1/2 of an assist per game. Basically Perkins is better than him.

I would never trade KG despite the fact that he probably only has 2 1/2 years remaining for two your players that are basically role players. If DA really wants to make a splash he should go after an ultimate go to guy or build the team in the image of the Spurs.

Perhaps this trade rumor and the one with LA to get Howard were a 1, 2 puch thrown by DA. Bring Bledsoe in to take Rondo's place add Howard at center with Jordan as a BU defender at 4 and 5.

To me this discussion could not have taken place unless KG was already told about negotiations. KG has a no trade clause and DA would have to first approach KG to see if he would consider a move. This one has legs.

But if you could not get the Howard for Rondo + players to be named later consumatred than this makes no sense.

So if they did make this trade with the Clippers we would have a below average PG and a defensive center that is offensively challanged and we would be missing a great defenser, rebounder, scorer and spititual leader.

The only logical thing to do is to amnesty Paul Pierce this year or next year or trade Paul Pierce this year or next year. Use him to strengthen the team. I think this team is partly rebuilt already. We need a legitimate center and a go to guy. The later obviusly being the mroe difficult piece to acquire.

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Re: Sources: Clippers, Celtics discussing Kevin Garnett trade

Post by dboss on Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:12 am

Let me clarify the go to guy comments.

The Celtics do not have to get another go to guy although that would be great. The Spurs model proves that you can win without a Kobe Braynt or a Lebron James on your team.

The real key to completing the rebuilding project is to add a starting center that can score and rebound the ball (Al Jefferson) And do this without moving your best player (Rondo)

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Re: Sources: Clippers, Celtics discussing Kevin Garnett trade

Post by cowens/oldschool on Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:25 am

I think Jordans defense is better than you might think, he can take away KG's post up, on offense Clips don't go to him enough, his post game has evolved some, but I agree he is not a primary or secondary scoring option. Him playing with Jeff Green and Sully is a strong frontline going forward, he could supply the neccesary length and defense. I'm not a stat guy, Bledsoe can score and score in bunches, I think hes got alot of upside. I would hate to see KG go, but longterm this trade could really help us. If going forward we have Rondo, AB, Lee and Bledsoe as our core 4 in the backcourt, that could really work too.

KG and Pierce as much as we love them are not gonna be here 2-3 years down the road.....like I said I have mixed feelings.

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Re: Sources: Clippers, Celtics discussing Kevin Garnett trade

Post by 112288 on Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:48 am

Cowens

I agree with your statement. In short term it hurts, long term we are building on the fly and have a great team.

Has to be done......especially PP...we cannot carry $15Million + next year and expect to get younger and better. We are deficient in several areas....such as a true younger shooting guard who can be trusted in big spots to hit the bucket, power forward (Bass is not cutting it offensively), and another small forward.

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Re: Sources: Clippers, Celtics discussing Kevin Garnett trade

Post by NYCelt on Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:49 am

I would be surprised if the Clippers would do that trade; sounds awfully lopsided for us. That being said if there was any way KG might consider going I'd get the paper signed before the Clips get time to change their mind.

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Re: Sources: Clippers, Celtics discussing Kevin Garnett trade

Post by MDCelticsFan on Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:03 pm

If Jefferson would return to Boston, I'd make the trade. Jordan, Jefferson, Green & Sully do present a solid front court. Then Rondo can be used as trade bate for a solid go-to guy to replace Pierce.

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Re: Sources: Clippers, Celtics discussing Kevin Garnett trade

Post by swish on Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:48 pm


Would be a great start to rebuilding but like NYCelt says would the Clippers really sign on.

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Re: Sources: Clippers, Celtics discussing Kevin Garnett trade

Post by dboss on Sat Feb 16, 2013 1:44 pm

by cowens/oldschool Today at 11:25 am


I think Jordans defense is better than you might think, he can take away KG's post up, on offense Clips don't go to him enough, his post game has evolved some, but I agree he is not a primary or secondary scoring option. Him playing with Jeff Green and Sully is a strong frontline going forward, he could supply the neccesary length and defense. I'm not a stat guy, Bledsoe can score and score in bunches, I think hes got alot of upside. I would hate to see KG go, but longterm this trade could really


Cow
I am assuming you are responding to me. I never said anything about his defense. However if you would entertain my opinion here it is. The three key defensive stats are rebounding, Block shots and steals reveals that Jordan is 39th in rebounding, is an average shot blocker at 1.4 PG and has insignificant steals (0.7 per game). He has no definable signature move on offense. That does not mean that he would not be an adaquate center but my evaluation should be considered in the Context of trading KG who I belive can still be very productive for at least 2 more years.

I think the best move we could make right now is to not do anything of significance. There will be plenty of time to contemplate what went right and what went wrong over thje summer.

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Re: Sources: Clippers, Celtics discussing Kevin Garnett trade

Post by mrkleen09 on Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:11 pm

No way.

Jordan is all style and no substance and is WAY overrated. He cannot get his own shot without a lob - and doesnt even play down the stretch in games as he is the worst FT shooter in the NBA. Completely one dimensional player. Chris Wilcox has more overall skills than Jordan.

Bledsoe is a shoot first PG - who may turn into a serviceable player, but right now is just a spark for a few minutes here and there. He has shown no ability to run a team - and the Clippers fell apart when Chris Paul was out.

KG on the other hand - is the heart and soul of the Celtics and the coach on the floor who controls the defense and plays QB down the stretch in every game. In addition he brings an intensity that rubs off on young players - and you can see Bradley, Sully, Lee, Green - all benefiting from playing next to the Big Ticket.

No way you do this trade.

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Re: Sources: Clippers, Celtics discussing Kevin Garnett trade

Post by NYCelt on Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:09 pm

I'd stick Bledsoe at 2-guard with Rondo at point or use him as first guard/combo guard off the bench in rotation with Rondo and Bradley.

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Re: Sources: Clippers, Celtics discussing Kevin Garnett trade

Post by swish on Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:21 pm

The tiny URL for your query is:

http://bkref.com/tiny/X7hgM

Based on 36 minutes per game his rebound per game average moves up considerably. See above link which is based on players with a minimum of 1300 minutes played and limited to players with a minimum of 8 rebounds per game.
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Re: Sources: Clippers, Celtics discussing Kevin Garnett trade

Post by mrkleen09 on Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:23 pm

NYCelt wrote:I'd stick Bledsoe at 2-guard with Rondo at point or use him as first guard/combo guard off the bench in rotation with Rondo and Bradley.

So you want to take the best defensive guard in the NBA - who has totally changed the personality of this team since his return, and replace him in the starting line up with Bledsoe? I guess I dont get it.

swish wrote:The tiny URL for your query is:

http://bkref.com/tiny/X7hgM

Based on 36 minutes per game his rebound per game average moves up considerably. See above link which is based on players with a minimum of 1300 minutes played and limited to players with a minimum of 8 rebounds per game.
Swish

Right...but the reason Jordan is not playing 30+ mpg is that he is both a one dimensional player AND career 43% ft shooter.

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Re: Sources: Clippers, Celtics discussing Kevin Garnett trade

Post by NYCelt on Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:40 pm

Kleen,

Read carefully, please, and don't put words in my mouth. You might notice I mentioned two ways I would use Bledsoe. One starting and yes, one would involve bringing Bradley in off the bench.

Or am I missing something that the only way to use a good defender is in the starting lineup? Last I knew, minutes played, situational play and finishing games had nothing to do with starting.

I can't speak for Swish but I think you may be missing his point as well. We need rebounding, which Jordan can provide.

Time to climb off the high-horse cowboy!

It's probably moot anyway. It's hard to picture the Clips trading two promising young players for one who's at the tail end of his career.

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Re: Sources: Clippers, Celtics discussing Kevin Garnett trade

Post by mulcogiseng on Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:43 pm

"Kevin Garnett would have to waive his no-trade clause and accept a deal to the Clippers. (AP)
Nevertheless, the biggest hurdle could ultimately center on Garnett's willingness to waive his no-trade clause and accept a deal to the Clippers."



anybody who writes like this doesn't deserve to be listened to and neither does his editor. This is the same worn out rumor from a couple of weeks ago. Why would either team do this trade? It's amazing to me how many people here want to dump Rondo, Pierce, and Garnet. If those trades were to be made we would be back where we were before the Tres Amigos era.


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Re: Sources: Clippers, Celtics discussing Kevin Garnett trade

Post by mrkleen09 on Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:58 pm

NYCelt wrote:Kleen,

Read carefully, please, and don't put words in my mouth. You might notice I mentioned two ways I would use Bledsoe. One starting and yes, one would involve bringing Bradley in off the bench.

Or am I missing something that the only way to use a good defender is in the starting lineup? Last I knew, minutes played, situational play and finishing games had nothing to do with starting.

I can't speak for Swish but I think you may be missing his point as well. We need rebounding, which Jordan can provide.

Time to climb off the high-horse cowboy!

It's probably moot anyway. It's hard to picture the Clips trading two promising young players for one who's at the tail end of his career.


NY - I dont see how you take your best defender, a guy who totally disrupts the opposing team's offense from the jump - and put him on the bench. The entire turnaround of this team is directly tied to AB coming back from his injury. Sorry if I didnt adress your second assertion - as the first seems so far off base - I couldnt even get to #2. Sorry for being distracted.

As for the Swish's point, using 36 minutes stats only makes sense if you are talking about a player who is (say for example) working his way back from injury - or a rookie who has not yet achieved favor with the coach, and so is currently getting less than 36 mpg - that stat might be relevant.

But in the case of 5 year veteran who is getting 29 mpg in a season when he is 100% healthy - that stat is irrelevant. Jordan is what he is. He is a one or two tool player who catches lobs and blocks some shots. Thats it. The Clippers dont limit him to less than 36 mpg - his lack of a complete game is what limits him.

Coming to Boston isnt going to change that fact that he is a major liability on the FT line - nor will it give him a post up game worth a bag of rocks.

This would not be a good deal for Boston.

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Re: Sources: Clippers, Celtics discussing Kevin Garnett trade

Post by swish on Sat Feb 16, 2013 6:49 pm

mrkleen
My opinions on this matter probably differ from most other board members because I believe that this team will not win the title. I also believe that they can't make a move that will bring them the championship this year. I also believe that even with both Garnett and Pierce back next that they will not win it all. Now I'm just smart enough to know that I could be dead wrong. But because of this opinion I'm hoping that Ainge is able to get something for both Garnett and Pierce before they end their careers. I agree with NYCelt that this deal is not likely to happen but if it did happen I would consider Bledsoe and Jordan a better start on the future then having them walk an getting nothing in return.
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Re: Sources: Clippers, Celtics discussing Kevin Garnett trade

Post by bobheckler on Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:37 pm

A recent twitter:


Marc J. Spears ✔ @SpearsNBAYahoo

"If its up to me I will live and die green," KG said. When reminded its up to him, KG said: "OK then. So what are we talking about it?"
5:33 PM - 16 Feb 13


The only way KG leaves, then, MIGHT BE if Pierce is traded first. Then, he might not want to stay here. Other than that, he's living and dying green.

God Bless Him.


bob


.

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Re: Sources: Clippers, Celtics discussing Kevin Garnett trade

Post by NYCelt on Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:25 pm

Kleen,

You're still missing or ignoring points made by at least two people in this particular thread.

I think your assertion that the entire turnaround of the team is tied to the return of Avery Bradley ignores what was developing for several games before his return, and shows a shocking lack of understanding for changes on both sides of the ball.

You want to get into a tit-for-tat you can have at it, but make it a damn spot more interesting because so far this is a waste of time.

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Re: Sources: Clippers, Celtics discussing Kevin Garnett trade

Post by 112288 on Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:26 pm

Bledsoe is undersized at 2 guard, He's 6'1''. He has to play point. He will be schooled by Doc on how to play the position just like Rondo learned. No way Bradley comes off the bench.

KG will play ball for at least til the end of his contract (3 years). He has a large indorsement contract with a China sneaker company for mega bucks. I am sure his deal is tied to him playing. For him to be home home every night in Malibu verses the cold of Boston is very appealing to him.

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Last edited by 112288 on Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:33 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Sources: Clippers, Celtics discussing Kevin Garnett trade

Post by NYCelt on Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:28 pm

swish wrote:mrkleen
My opinions on this matter probably differ from most other board members because I believe that this team will not win the title. I also believe that they can't make a move that will bring them the championship this year. I also believe that even with both Garnett and Pierce back next that they will not win it all. Now I'm just smart enough to know that I could be dead wrong. But because of this opinion I'm hoping that Ainge is able to get something for both Garnett and Pierce before they end their careers. I agree with NYCelt that this deal is not likely to happen but if it did happen I would consider Bledsoe and Jordan a better start on the future then having them walk an getting nothing in return.
Swish

+1

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Re: Sources: Clippers, Celtics discussing Kevin Garnett trade

Post by NYCelt on Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:36 pm

112288,

The Clips have used Bledsoe at 2-guard and point. Bradley is 6' 2" and 180 lbs., Bledsoe is 6' 1" and 185, so no significant size difference. I think it's more significant that each one is more skilled in a different phase of the game fron the other.

Drew Bledsoe is 6' 5" and 238...

Which may still be more meaningful because I would be absolutely shocked if this trade were to happen.

Regards

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Re: Sources: Clippers, Celtics discussing Kevin Garnett trade

Post by 112288 on Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:52 pm


KEVIN GARNETT ISN'T ABOUT TO WAIVE HIS NO-TRADE CLAUSE


WEEI

Kevin Garnett

Speaking at media availability during All-Star Weekend in Houston, Celtics forward Kevin Garnett said he wasn't intent on waiving his no-trade clause. Garnett responded with a "No," when asked if there was any circumstance he would consider waiving the clause.

He later added, "Why would I come back and make the visits to rally this team to go further only to be set up to have change?"

At one point, Garnett asked if the only questions would be trade-related. He then relented when a reminder was offered regarding Thursday's trade deadline.

"I get it. I get it," he said. "It's all good. If it's up to me, I'm going to live and die green all day."

Earlier Saturday, Yahoo! Sports reported the Celtics and Clippers were in discussions regarding a deal that would send Garnett to Los Angeles, and Eric Bledsoe and DeAndre Jordan to Boston.

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Re: Sources: Clippers, Celtics discussing Kevin Garnett trade

Post by 112288 on Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:59 pm

Kevin Garnett says he won't waive no-trade clause; Clippers think he'll change mind

YAHOO SPORTS - 5 hours ago

HOUSTON – The Boston Celtics can discuss a trade with the Los Angeles Clippers or any other NBA team all they want, but Kevin Garnett says it won't matter. Asked Saturday if there was any circumstance or team that could entice him to give up his no-trade clause and leave Boston, Garnett said, "No."
Even so, the Clippers still believe they can get Garnett to accept a trade if the Celtics tell him they want to make a deal, a source told Yahoo! Sports.
"If Boston came to him with the trade and he knew they wanted to do it, he would change his mind," the source said.

Publicly, at least, Garnett was pretty clear about his desire to stay in Boston.
"If it's up to me," Garnett said, "I will live and die green all day."

Reminded that the final decision is up to him because he has a no-trade clause in his contract, Garnett replied: "OK then. So [why] are we talking about it?"

Garnett, 36, signed a three-year, $36 million extension with the Celtics in the offseason that figures to take him to the end of his playing days.
"Let me ask you guys something: Why would I make the provisions to ride with [the] team and go further only to be set up to have change?" he said prior to Saturday's Eastern Conference All-Star practice.

The Celtics and Clippers have been discussing a deal that would send guard Eric Bledsoe and center DeAndre Jordan to Boston for Garnett. The two teams have talked regularly, but the biggest hurdle to clear could be Garnett's no-trade clause.

The Clippers hope they can convince Garnett to join them because his offseason home is in Malibu just outside Los Angeles. Garnett also is close friends with former Minnesota Timberwolves teammate Chauncey Billups, who is now in his second season with the Clippers. The Clippers own the Western Conference's third-best record at 39-17 and are attracted to adding a big man like Garnett who could open up the offense with his jump shooting, giving Blake Griffin more room to play in the post.

Garnett's chair during Saturday morning's media availability was positioned next to that of Griffin and Clippers guard Chris Paul. Paul exchanged pleasantries with Garnett prior to the media availability and made mention that both are close to Billups.

[Also: Kevin Garnett, Carmelo Anthony squash beef]

Garnett said Celtics president Danny Ainge and coach Doc Rivers have not talked to him recently about any potential trades including him.
"It's always a business, just speaking from my side," Garnett said. "Trade talks are part of the league, part of the business side of the league. I'm no different from that. It is what it is. At this point, Danny hasn't said anything to me. I haven't had any talks with Doc about anything that has been altered or anything that has changed from the status quo."

Paul and Griffin both expressed strong admiration for Garnett.
"Who wouldn't love to have Kevin Garnett on their team?" Paul said. "I talk about that guy all day, every day. You know the intensity to the game and how he plays the game. At the end of the day, that guy is a special player. I've looked up to him for a long time."

Said Griffin: "He's very, very serious as a competitor. His level of professionalism is off the charts. I've heard that every game he's an intense guy to be around, and that's tough to do. To play as many games as he's played, to still have that level of intensity every single game is tough to do. That's something I really admire."

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Re: Sources: Clippers, Celtics discussing Kevin Garnett trade

Post by cowens/oldschool on Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:11 am

dboss

I'm watching this guy Rick Fox on TNT interviewing the players, I remember when he left Boston I was sad cause even though he wasn't an all star caliber player, he had value and was still a player that could play his position well enough to help the team win. He could shoot the 3, had good enough handle and could defend. Thats how I feel about DeAndre Jordan, I was pissed that Danny passed up on him and thought he'd be in a great position learning from KG and Perk and providing depth if we had taken him. He still has that freakish athleticism and is only 24, I've seen a few instances where he could score in the post better than in years past, bottomline he can hold his own against a weak crop of 5's in the league. I could see him playing fairly well off Rondo or Green and Sully, he could cover for them on defense, protect the rim and do it better than most out there. A poor mans version of Tyson Chandler for the next 10-12 years is something I wouldn't pass up.

If KG were even 32 or 33 ofcourse I don't consider this trade, but were on borrowed time with KG and Pierce. Russell and Cowens and Bird were all done by 35 and heres these 2 playing their hearts out, doing it the right way. Your comments on Pierce were cold, this version of Pierce is a very good player still for 30 minutes a game and as we see with the early development of Kidd-Gilchrist and Harrison Barnes, the draft is a crapshoot, Pierce as a rookie already showed way more than these 2 combined. He has always been an underated superstar with brass balls, we still need him to mentor the young players and Jeff Green whos starting to really bring it, still need Pierces attitude to further rub off him. Going forward were still really strong with an older savy Pierce and an up and coming flyer in Jeff Green, having 2 all star talent level players at that position is crucial vs Lebron, Melo and Durant.

Again would hate to see KG go.

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Re: Sources: Clippers, Celtics discussing Kevin Garnett trade

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