In The Moment....

+10
dbrown4
Sam
Outside
KellyGreen17
MDCelticsFan
beat
David14
swedeinestonia
jeb
LACELTFAN
14 posters

Page 1 of 4 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Go down

In The Moment.... Empty In The Moment....

Post by LACELTFAN Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:52 pm

For the moment, the Celtics are at the top of the heap and it that's great. Doesn't mean much in the overall scheme of things but... what can I say? GO CELTICS....
LACELTFAN
LACELTFAN

Posts : 796
Join date : 2009-10-12

Back to top Go down

In The Moment.... Empty Re: In The Moment....

Post by jeb Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:56 pm

celts win lakers lose. Pretty well perfect night!

19-4 good grief.
jeb
jeb

Posts : 6165
Join date : 2009-10-16
Age : 59

Back to top Go down

In The Moment.... Empty Re: In The Moment....

Post by swedeinestonia Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:59 pm

Guess they dont like the road.

They are good though.
swedeinestonia
swedeinestonia

Posts : 2153
Join date : 2009-10-17
Age : 44

Back to top Go down

In The Moment.... Empty Re: In The Moment....

Post by David14 Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:18 am

jeb65 wrote:celts win lakers lose. Pretty well perfect night!

19-4 good grief.

I agree Jebster. Despite the fact that the Lakers were more than lucky to beat the Heat on Kobe's 3-point straight away bank shot, the press had the Lakers unbeatable. The truth of the matter is they had a "homey" schedule that is rarely found in the NBA. Since they share their arena with the Clippers, the NBA had no choice but to accomodate the Lakers with home games.

It definitely was a good night, however it's still going to be a roller coaster year for all of us.

David
David14
David14

Posts : 331
Join date : 2009-10-17

Back to top Go down

In The Moment.... Empty Re: In The Moment....

Post by beat Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:30 am

Perhaps Kobe's finger is a bit worse than he thought it was. Yes he gutted it out and played but did he do more harm than good? . Last night shooting for the Lakers was good except for Kobe.

Kobe took nearly 40% of the shots for the starters.

Of the lakers starters he was the only one to shoot less than 50% from the field 7-24(.29%) while the other 4 starters were 23-38 (.605%)

They feasted on home cookin, now they may fast a bit on the road.

beat
beat
beat

Posts : 7032
Join date : 2009-10-13
Age : 70

Back to top Go down

In The Moment.... Empty Re: In The Moment....

Post by jeb Sun Dec 13, 2009 6:30 pm

Beat

Only after they beat some good teams on the road will I believe the hype. They are very tall and very good but they are NOT very deep.

Lets see how they fare out of staples.
jeb
jeb

Posts : 6165
Join date : 2009-10-16
Age : 59

Back to top Go down

In The Moment.... Empty Re: In The Moment....

Post by MDCelticsFan Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:24 am

Beat: If the Lakers are out of Staples, Will they have to use paper clips? (LOL)-MD.

MDCelticsFan

Posts : 1314
Join date : 2009-11-03
Age : 72

Back to top Go down

In The Moment.... Empty Re: In The Moment....

Post by KellyGreen17 Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:04 pm

Seems to me that the major flaw in Kobe's game is that he doesn't know how to help his team if his shot is not falling. It's the epitomy of selfishness to launch 24 shots when you have a broken finger which is obviously affecting your ability to score the ball. The sports media love to talk about him playing through injuries and whatnot, but nobody ever seems to notice that he generally hurts his team more than helps it when he does this. I would be far less than thrilled with him if I were a Laker fan (gag!).
KellyGreen17
KellyGreen17

Posts : 358
Join date : 2009-10-19
Age : 41

Back to top Go down

In The Moment.... Empty Re: In The Moment....

Post by beat Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:20 pm

KG17

Will be very interesting to watch the Lakers over the next couple of weeks. Will Kobe pass, does he really know how to bring the best out of his teamates? He has shown that he can do it once in a while but if that last game is an indication of what is in store for the next few broken finger games ..............who knows.

I know if I'm Bynum, or Gasol, or Artest, I'd be a bit miffed about a 7-24 night when they are just begging Kobe to pass the ball to them.

Would have loved to heard what was said in the locker room. Of course Artest would have been handing out the drinks I guess.

Ron on the Laker "love boat"

In The Moment.... Ted20l10



We shall see.

beat
beat
beat

Posts : 7032
Join date : 2009-10-13
Age : 70

Back to top Go down

In The Moment.... Empty Re: In The Moment....

Post by beat Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:34 pm

Kelly

just to add this too

Mike Bresnahan, L.A. Times: "Losses don't happen often to the Lakers, but there's often something interesting to come out of them. After their 102-94 defeat Saturday against the Utah Jazz, forward Pau Gasol(notes) wanted more touches. He made a plea for more action in the post after being asked how it felt to collect 20 rebounds for a second consecutive game. 'I'm just being active, pursuing the ball,' he said. 'I don't get many looks offensively, so I've got to get my offensive rebounds. Otherwise, I'll get five shots during the game. I'm trying to get my looks there, and I work hard and stay active and do what I can.' Good thing for him that he's rebounding a lot. Gasol's back-to-back rebounding efforts made him only the third Lakers player in the last 14 years to take 20-plus rebounds in consecutive games, joining Lamar Odom(notes) and Vlade Divac. Gasol made six of 11 shots in almost 43 minutes. He had nine offensive rebounds. So are teammates not looking for him or is he being thwarted by double-teams? 'A little bit of everything, I guess.'"
beat
beat

Posts : 7032
Join date : 2009-10-13
Age : 70

Back to top Go down

In The Moment.... Empty Re: In The Moment....

Post by KellyGreen17 Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:39 pm

Good stuff Beat! If Kobe has made his teammates better over the past couple of years it's only because they realized he wasn't going to pass to them so they started working harder to "get their own". It's funny that Gasol complains about not getting a lot of scoring opportunities. It's my understanding that the initial offensive option in the "triangle offense" is to the strong side post man, ie. Gasol. I can just imagine the heat that Gasol would get if he actually took that scoring opportunity rather than pass the ball back to Kobe...
KellyGreen17
KellyGreen17

Posts : 358
Join date : 2009-10-19
Age : 41

Back to top Go down

In The Moment.... Empty Re: In The Moment....

Post by Outside Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:18 pm

KellyGreen17 wrote:Good stuff Beat! If Kobe has made his teammates better over the past couple of years it's only because they realized he wasn't going to pass to them so they started working harder to "get their own". It's funny that Gasol complains about not getting a lot of scoring opportunities. It's my understanding that the initial offensive option in the "triangle offense" is to the strong side post man, ie. Gasol. I can just imagine the heat that Gasol would get if he actually took that scoring opportunity rather than pass the ball back to Kobe...
Kelly,

I think a couple of factors play into your observation (that Gasol doesn't take many shots even though the first pass is often to him). The triple post (triangle) is designed to have that strong side post pass the ball to other players. Gasol gets lots of assists (3.5 per game last season, 4.2 per game this season), and there are even more shots made that are "hockey assists" (two passes from Gasol). Once the ball is in the frontcourt, Gasol is more of a point guard in the triangle than Fisher.

The other thing is that Gasol actually isn't selfish enough. He does need to take more shots, especially because he's such an efficient scorer. What they should do is repost; that is, once Gasol kicks the ball out, they should feed it back into him, and that's when he should shoot. They don't do that nearly enough. They should do that even more now, considering Kobe's injury.

Outside
Outside
Outside

Posts : 3019
Join date : 2009-11-05

Back to top Go down

In The Moment.... Empty Re: In The Moment....

Post by Sam Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:31 pm

One thing I'd appreciate would be a reasonably detailed yet concise explanation of the inherent benefits of the triangle offense. I instinctively shrink in horror at mention of the concept; but truthfully I'm not at all sure if that's because it's identified primarily with Phil and the Lakers or because it somehow offends the basketball purist in me or for some other reason. Maybe if I followed my own advice and learned more about this topic before I try to discuss it, I'd be better off.

Sam
Sam
Sam
Admin

Posts : 22663
Join date : 2009-10-10

https://samcelt.forumotion.net

Back to top Go down

In The Moment.... Empty Re: In The Moment....

Post by dbrown4 Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:38 pm

I'd like a primer in the triangle offense myself. I do know what a triangle is buy never pay attention enough to the Lakers when they are playing to know what it was/is if it walked up and smacked me in the face. Please someone start a thread on this one that is in the know. Thanks, db
dbrown4
dbrown4

Posts : 5263
Join date : 2009-10-29
Age : 60

Back to top Go down

In The Moment.... Empty Re: In The Moment....

Post by beat Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:40 pm

http://www.jes-soft.com/playbook/platriangle-principles.html


helps when you have a couple "all star" type players running it

[edit] Criticisms
Most critics of the triangle offense cite its high level of difficulty and longer-than-average learning process.

Other critics also argue the fact that the triangle offense requires a player of Kobe Bryant's caliber to be successful when the team is out of synch. The triangle offense is like any other system, it can fail and has at times. Phil Jackson has only coached two teams that has run the triangle offense, both of which had the most dominant player in the game of basketball on that team when the triangle was being run, and on both teams, on many occasions the triangle offense was abandoned and the superstar was left to run the show and score at will.


Last edited by beat on Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
beat
beat

Posts : 7032
Join date : 2009-10-13
Age : 70

Back to top Go down

In The Moment.... Empty Re: In The Moment....

Post by KellyGreen17 Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:42 pm

Outside, thanks for the info on the triangle. I really don't know a whole lot about it, so thank you for correcting my assumption that Gasol is the primary option. I think you are right about Gasol needing to be more selfish. The problem is, wasn't that why Kobe didn't want to play with Shaq anymore? Gasol is probably better off deferring to Kobe instead of trying to improve his own game. Otherwise he might get run out of town.
KellyGreen17
KellyGreen17

Posts : 358
Join date : 2009-10-19
Age : 41

Back to top Go down

In The Moment.... Empty Re: In The Moment....

Post by Sam Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:05 pm

Beat, thanks for the diagrams. I think I get how it's performed. I'm particularly interested in the alleged pros and cons of it. It's obviously counter to the traditional "ballhandler as distributor" philosophy, and I've seen that philosophy prove effective over many, many years. I'd like to know what it is about the triangle that, in the opinion of some, makes it more effective.

If it's only "more effective" if it's run with Jordan and Kobe, is it really just a formalized, intellectual version of isolation basketball? That wouldn't seem to be the case because it was apparently conceived by Tex Winter many decades ago and before iso ball had become popularized.

I'm just curious. I guarantee I'll never become a convert.

Sam
Sam
Sam
Admin

Posts : 22663
Join date : 2009-10-10

https://samcelt.forumotion.net

Back to top Go down

In The Moment.... Empty Re: In The Moment....

Post by beat Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:19 pm

Sam

One thing that I noted in readig about it is that it offers spacing and "places" for players to go.

And if it screws up Jordan makes a play.

From some site I read there were 5 plays or sets from it with many options..............geesh doesn't that sound familiar!!!

beat
beat
beat

Posts : 7032
Join date : 2009-10-13
Age : 70

Back to top Go down

In The Moment.... Empty Re: In The Moment....

Post by Outside Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:31 pm

Sam, I know the triangle isn't the traditional point guard-initiated offense, but I would think you'd like it once you got over the "Phil-Laker" aspect. It uses passing and motion to find high-percentage shots. Players react to what the defense does rather than go to specific locations, which is what makes it hard for many players to learn compared to, say, the Princeton offense. From what I see, it employs the elements of team play that you prefer, especially compared to isolation basketball.

To work, it requires a skilled passing big man, capable outside shooting, and players with all-around skills who can make good decisions. Although you can arrange it so that a player like Bynum isn't on the perimeter, it's designed so that players are interchangeable parts that can be in multiple positions. Phil generally doesn't like small guards because of that, and you could say that the ideal team to run it would be five guys 6-6 to 6-9 that can all handle the ball. But it can also take advantage of a post player like Bynum, and Gasol and Bynum use it together quite well.

Regarding the Lakers, a problem with perception of the triangle is that they regularly dump it for Kobe hero-ball, especially in fourth quarters when Kobe seems to feel obligated to "impose his will" on the other team. I don't like the Lakers when Kobe is in hero-ball mode, but that's not the triangle.

I'm certainly not an expert on the triangle, but it employs team concepts that I like a lot.

Outside
Outside
Outside

Posts : 3019
Join date : 2009-11-05

Back to top Go down

In The Moment.... Empty Re: In The Moment....

Post by Sam Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:57 pm

Outside,

Thanks for the explanation. My favorite old Celtics video is of a deciding 1966 game against Cincinnati. It shows a full-length game, excepting for skipping some of the free throw shooting; and it's presented as a documentary, with commentary, stop-action replays, etc., and an inspiring ending. But my point is that, at one point, it shows down the Celtics offense to feature the interplay between the guards (KC and Sam Jones) and the pivot man (Russell). And I recall the announcer saying, "Note how the players are aligned like a triangle," and then he goes on to demonstrate the plays they run out of that triangular formation. Probably nothing like Tex's triangle, but the similar term has always seemed eerie to me.

Of course, if Auerbach used the triangle, it's automatically one of the best all-time strategies. No bias on this end of the cyber-highway. Not an ounce! LOL.

Sam


Last edited by Sam on Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
Sam
Sam
Admin

Posts : 22663
Join date : 2009-10-10

https://samcelt.forumotion.net

Back to top Go down

In The Moment.... Empty Re: In The Moment....

Post by Outside Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:23 pm

Sam wrote:Of course, if Auerbach used the triangle, it's automatically one of the best all-time strategies.
Too funny Smile
Outside
Outside

Posts : 3019
Join date : 2009-11-05

Back to top Go down

In The Moment.... Empty Re: In The Moment....

Post by babyskyhook Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:14 am

beat wrote:Perhaps Kobe's finger is a bit worse than he thought it was. Yes he gutted it out and played but did he do more harm than good? . Last night shooting for the Lakers was good except for Kobe.

Kobe took nearly 40% of the shots for the starters.

Of the lakers starters he was the only one to shoot less than 50% from the field 7-24(.29%) while the other 4 starters were 23-38 (.605%)

They feasted on home cookin, now they may fast a bit on the road.

beat

Kobe was definitely his own worst enemy (and the team's) in that game. Add in the fact that they didn't play D or hustle and it was a well-deserved loss.

I'm not worried about them on the road. They had the best record in the NBA last year. They won road games in every playoff series last year, and some of Kobe (and Fisher's) best performances over the years have been on the road.

Not worried about the road, but don't want to see that kind of shot distribution again anytime soon. THat would be much more worrisome to me.
babyskyhook
babyskyhook

Posts : 949
Join date : 2009-10-22

Back to top Go down

In The Moment.... Empty Re: In The Moment....

Post by babyskyhook Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:27 am

KellyGreen17 wrote:

It's the epitomy of selfishness to launch 24 shots when you have a broken finger which is obviously affecting your ability to score the ball.
...

I would be far less than thrilled with him if I were a Laker fan.

That sums it up pretty well. Was like a bad flashback to the days when his teammates were Smush Parker and Kwame Brown.

The biggest single statistical factor in tracking whether the Lakers win or lose is the number of shots KB takes. Last year, when it was 17 or less, they were almost unbeatable(something like 52-2, I forget the exact numbers). When he took between 18-25 shots they were mediocre (something like 13-Cool, and when he took over 25 shots, they almost always lost (somethingn like 2-7).

When he takes too many shots it throws the whole offense out of sync and messes up the team, as it also affects their overall energy.

When he plays within the offense, sets the other guys up and let's the game come to him, he's the best player in the world and they are very, very hard to beat.

Luckily for me, he's grown up a lot the last few years, so nights like the other night have been much more the exception than the rule, but when they happen, it's a painful reminder that his "will to win" can sometimes be so strong that it backfires.
babyskyhook
babyskyhook

Posts : 949
Join date : 2009-10-22

Back to top Go down

In The Moment.... Empty Re: In The Moment....

Post by babyskyhook Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:30 am

beat wrote:
Would have loved to heard what was said in the locker room. Of course Artest would have been handing out the drinks I guess.

Ron on the Laker "love boat"

In The Moment.... Ted20l10


beat

LMAO beat. Literally LOL.

Ironically, Ron-Ron (and Pau) were the only ones who b rought any energy into the Utah game. Artest pretty much kept them in the game in the 3rd quarter before the eventual collapse.

Maybe Hennessy should start marketing an energy drink ?
babyskyhook
babyskyhook

Posts : 949
Join date : 2009-10-22

Back to top Go down

In The Moment.... Empty Re: In The Moment....

Post by babyskyhook Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:36 am

Outside wrote:Sam, I know the triangle isn't the traditional point guard-initiated offense, but I would think you'd like it once you got over the "Phil-Laker" aspect. It uses passing and motion to find high-percentage shots. Players react to what the defense does rather than go to specific locations, which is what makes it hard for many players to learn compared to, say, the Princeton offense. From what I see, it employs the elements of team play that you prefer, especially compared to isolation basketball.

To work, it requires a skilled passing big man, capable outside shooting, and players with all-around skills who can make good decisions. Although you can arrange it so that a player like Bynum isn't on the perimeter, it's designed so that players are interchangeable parts that can be in multiple positions. Phil generally doesn't like small guards because of that, and you could say that the ideal team to run it would be five guys 6-6 to 6-9 that can all handle the ball. But it can also take advantage of a post player like Bynum, and Gasol and Bynum use it together quite well.

...

I'm certainly not an expert on the triangle, but it employs team concepts that I like a lot.

Outside



Outside-

that is an excellent breakdown of the triangle. You may not be an "expert", but you know your stuff (*more than 1000 Martinilovers combined, as 1000 x 0= 0). Plus, you saved me the trouble of writing the exact same thing. Good stuff.

And Sam, I think you'd like it too- on a purely basketball level.
babyskyhook
babyskyhook

Posts : 949
Join date : 2009-10-22

Back to top Go down

In The Moment.... Empty Re: In The Moment....

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 4 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum