Jeff Green Admits He Can't Do It Alone And Didn't Know How To Handle Being The Go-To Guy

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Post by bobheckler Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:14 pm

http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2014/04/jeff_green_admits_he_cant_do_i.html



Jeff Green admits he can't do it alone, says he didn't know how to handle being Boston Celtics go-to guy

Print Jay King | mjking@masslive.com By Jay King | mjking@masslive.com
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on April 16, 2014 at 9:59 AM, updated April 16, 2014 at 12:53 PM




Before the season, Jeff Green accepted the challenge. To an extent, he even created the challenge.

The Boston Celtics forward shared his dream of becoming a go-to guy and his belief that finally the dream would come to fruition. He kept piling pressure on himself, saying he wanted to average at least 20 points per game, noting he was OK with the target on his back because that’s what he always worked for.

“Bring it on,” Green said at media day. “That’s a challenge that I’m willing to take on.”

He was willing to take it on until he realized he could not handle the responsibilities. One game away from his first season as a self-proclaimed go-to guy, Green sang a decidedly different tune to the Boston Globe’s Baxter Holmes.

“I can’t do it alone,” Green told Holmes.

“People don’t realize that this is the first time of me being ‘that guy,’ ” Green added. “I didn’t know what to expect. I didn’t know how to handle it.”

And my personal favorite: “You’ve got to work five times harder just to get a shot or to get the look you want. Sometimes I settle for jump shots because it’s hard to get to the paint.”

Sometimes I settle for jump shots because it’s hard to get to the paint.

That’s something I say, and I’m a 26-year-old sports writer who gained 35 pounds after quitting college basketball and eats Burger King six times a week. I can barely run up and down the court four times during men's league games without needing a timeout, an inhaler or a beer. I launch ill-advised 3-pointers because I’m out of shape and I hate myself afterward because I could not summon the effort to beat my also-overweight defender off the dribble. Jeff Green's one of the world’s best athletes. He’s tall, strong and finely-conditioned and he can almost touch the top of the backboard when he jumps.

Look, I understand much of Green’s stance. He’s not a go-to guy. He’s better off as a complementary piece. He thrived last year because Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce allowed him to focus on spot-up jump shots and transition opportunities. Green’s not great at creating in the half-court, which is why he can find it so difficult to get to the rim against set defenses.

But still, his settling for jump shots line highlights my biggest issue with Green: He's more of a Yorkie than a pit bull. He’s 6-foot-9 but never rebounds. He’s one of the best athletes alive but doesn’t always sprint the floor in transition. Seriously, just spend one game watching Green. You might see him mope around for several plays, come out of hibernation to block somebody’s shot off the backboard, hit four 3-pointers in a five-minute span, convert a finger roll reminiscent of James Worthy in his prime, and then revert to moping around.

If you can’t get to the rim, Jeff, don’t just stop and settle for jump shots. Not the fading, leaning, off-the-dribble ones you’ve fallen in love with this season, at least. Those had your shooting percentage under 40 percent for three consecutive months before this one. Hallelujah, you're up to 43.1 percent through seven games in April.

If you can’t get to the rim off the dribble, Jeff, find other ways to impact a game. Make a backdoor cut. Grab an offensive rebound. Focus more of your energies on the defensive end. Sprint the lanes like your teammate Chris Johnson. Stop worrying about whether you're a go-to guy and become someone your teammates can at least rely on every night. Use your athleticism to impact every play, not just the ones that end with an alley-oop finish or a highlight block off the backboard.

Despite my obvious scorn for Green's lackadaisical habits, I'll admit he should play a lot better once he can focus on what he does best rather than trying to overextend himself on a nightly basis. He was good over the second half of last season, played the best basketball of his life. So I actually agree with much of what he's saying. I just think he should have reacted to the situation differently than by chucking bad jumpers because that is the easy way out.

Sometimes I settle for jump shots because it’s hard to get to the paint.

What a perfect quote to describe Jeff Green's frustrating basketball mindset.




bob
MY NOTE:  I have a problem with the part of the title that says that Jeff Green "admits he can't do it alone".  Basketball is a team sport, he should never have been expected to "do it alone".  I think that headline is unfair.  However, some of the other stuff he said, like that "sometimes he settles for  jumpshots because it's hard to get to the paint", cuts right to the core of who Jeff Green is as a player.  Talent levels aside, and I think you could make a good argument that Green has more, you would never have heard Paul Pierce say that.  If he was playing on one leg and a herniated disk and we needed a point of any kind, Pierce would have one-leg pogo'd into the lane and tried to draw contact by head faking and then throwing himself at the nearest defender.  Furthermore, this also reflects on the coaching a bit.  There has been some talk about how Jeff Green isn't being used properly.  How do you "use a player properly" when said player lacks ganas?  You can't call a play for "ganas" in the huddle.  He either has the fire in the belly and will do whatever it takes, or he doesn't.


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Post by k_j_88 Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:23 pm

High expectations were placed on Green to be the second coming of Paul Pierce, albeit a more athletic and explosive incarnation. He had a number of great games last year which led some to believe that the succession was real.

A year later, or rather, several months ago, we've learned that Jeff Green is not "the man." He can only be a "go-to guy" on occasion; the occasion when he's feeling some sort of smoldering blaze within him. Those nights are quite intermittent. That's not to say that Jeff has had a bad season. He's had a lot of good games and even some great ones. I'd actually prefer to say he's had a tough season.

As stated in the article, this was Jeff's first year as "the guy." He may have felt compelled to answer confidently, and perhaps at that very moment he was feeling confident. But with the transition came a crash course in being the team's number one option.

Jeff's admission of not being able to do it alone really speaks to something I have touched on before, as well as some others: he's really a second or third option. When there are other good players around Jeff, it alleviates a great deal of the burden on him. Last year, Pierce and Garnett were still on the team, which allowed Jeff to really flourish.

I came to the conclusion a while ago that he is not cut from the same fleece as the likes of Durant, James, and George. He may be their equal in raw talent, but in terms of mental toughness and the inner fire that superstars have, they are miles ahead of him.

However, none of that is to say that Jeff should be blamed for being the way he is. Maybe that's just how he's always been. And that's fine. When you think about it, most guys in the league will never be superstars/franchise players. Jeff is really meant to be a complimentary piece that poses problems for opposing teams.

BobH, you mentioned someone about Green "lacking ganas" to create his own opportunity, and that it essentially shouldn't matter how he's used if he lacks that anyway. In the context of grading a superstar, I'd agree. But to Jeff's credit, Boston's offense has been consistently inconsistent throughout the season. There is little motion to the offense unless the team hits its stride on a run. Truth be told, it expends a hell of a lot more energy when you're constantly having to make an offensive move from beyond the arc. I don't really think it's fair that he's always having to get the ball so far away from the hoop. That's where the "not being used properly" factor comes into play. Jeff's not being put in a position where he can succeed. And because he is, in fact, not a superstar player, he needs more help like that.

Pierce is a future Hall of Famer. A champion. He'll go down in history as one of the greatest players. That's a very difficult benchmark to match, especially for a guy that's never been that type of player. But, none of this is to discount the fact that Green should be working harder anyway. He shouldn't be settling for a bad shot just because it requires less work. It's a disappointing thing to hear any player say.





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Post by Sam Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:02 pm

I'm going to start calling Jeff "Popeye" because he is what he is what he is.  (It's possible that no one on the board except Swish knows what I'm talking about.)  In one sense, Jeff's like virtually all others on the team.  Before casting judgments in iron, it's probably a good idea to see what they can do on a team with some degree of normalcy.  Just as one tiny example of many, I think Jeff's pretty good at using picks.  Suppose more picks were being set for him by a real bruiser.  Think he might not have to settle for as many jump shots?

I'm not trying to manufacture excuses for Jeff because I don't necessarily believe he needs any.  He just needs to play on a team with a good basic, complementary core playing their rightful positions and having had the opportunity to play together for a while.  Then is the time to see what his game settles down to being...how his complementary piece provides what's needed from his position.

Perhaps he won't get that chance and will be traded.  If that happens, so be it.  But he definitely needs a role that he's comfortable with on some team, and I bet he'll turn out to be pretty good at discharging his responsibilities.

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Post by cowens/oldschool Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:49 am

guy will never be an all star, but flashes all star talent, now we know how weak mentally he is, which is why he is so frustrating to watch night in and night out....can we please get rid of him, sooner the better.

Sam he is not a near very intelligent player, he doesn't know how to use picks to score or feed/assist off the play. In his 6th year he is still searching and hasn't figured it out yet.....hes even behind Gerald Green who figured it out this year.

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Post by Sam Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:35 am

Cow, I don't consider myself astute enough to measure a given player's intellect from a distance.  I know that Jeff has looked quite creative in getting to the hoop, and there's a measure of intellect required for a player to be creative.  I prefer to leave an assessment of his intellect to the coaches, and I don't consider his frank allusion to the challenges he faced this season to be a sign of being "weak-minded."  Personally, I consider that to be a pretty fierce indictment.

No, he's not an assist guy—only a couple a game—but what does that measure other than the fact that he's not a guard; he's a SF and sometimes a PF.  I have no idea whether coaches have tried to get him to pass more, but that's not usually a priority of a normal SF.  As for using picks, which picks are you talking about.  I think I saw one or two in December, but I'm not sure.  (A deliberate exaggeration to make my point, but I'd rate the frequency and quality of picks one of this team's top five deficiencies this season.)  That's precisely the reason I used better picks as an example of how a more well-rounded team would give him (and other Celtics) a better playing field within which to hone and display their wares.

In an ironic sense, Jeff was a victim of his iron man performance.  This was the second consecutive season in which he played every game.  As such, he—more than any other Celtic except Brandon Bass—has been a victim of the host of discontinuities that have plagued the team.

Am I happy with what the Celtics got out of Jeff this season?  No.  Am I happy with the system and capabilities of the system within which Jeff was called upon to operate and the roles he was expected to fill.  No.

I'm not really claiming whether or not he should be a Celtic of the future.  I am claiming that performing within the context (there's always a context) of this particular team put him and other Celtics in a less-than-desirable position for doing much more than keeping their heads above water.

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Post by cowens/oldschool Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:40 am

Sam if you could go back in time knowing exactly what you know now, would you do the Perk deal in 11?

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Post by Sam Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:48 pm

Cow, I don't do hypotheticals.  Although I'm the old one and might be at least partially justified for living in the past, I'm already looking forward to next season.

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Post by k_j_88 Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:57 pm

Jeff Green has the unfortunate burden of being "the guy that played small forward after Pierce." Just because a bunch of people think that Green *should* be option "A" instead of option "B" does not mean those people are right. I could support the griping more if Jeff was a franchise player elsewhere, but then came to Boston and played poorly. Fans would have a legitimate beef in that case. But, that never was the case, was it? You can't buy a Nissan expecting it to be a Mercedes and then take issue with the fact that it's not a Mercedes. You knew beforehand. The evidence was there.

Would I do the Perkins-Green trade all over again? Honestly, I don't know. I think that in the short-term, it hurt the Celtics' chances of legitimately competing for at least another title. Long-term? I'd have to say that Perkins is currently a shadow of what he used to be.

Also, the Green-for-Perkins trade would not even come up in discussion as a mistake if Ainge had picked up a legit center since that time (it's been at least 3-4 years, right?).



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Post by cowens/oldschool Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:27 pm

Jeff Green should have developed some counter moves to use when they overplay one side or try to take away his main move....oh wait I just realized he doesn't even have a go to signature move, my bad.

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Post by Outside Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:15 pm

Cow,

I understand that you can't stand Jeff Green because he isn't consistent, isn't Paul Pierce, isn't a "go to" guy, doesn't get enough rebounds or assists, and is mentally weak, but most of all, his crime is that he was the guy traded for Kendrick Perkins.

I understand that you're passionate about Perk and that you'll hate Green forever because of that trade, but do you have to keep digging that knife in Green's side? There are people like me on this forum who think Green's contributions this season are underappreciated, and after your third post on this thread, I'm finding it hard to not post a rebuttal, but we've gone over this ground many times, and no one has changed their mind so far, so I don't see the point in it.

He's not at a Sidney Wicks level of disdain. He's more like Jordan Crawford, a guy who was unappreciated for being asked to do things he wasn't built to do, and instead of being thanked for his service and followed with mild interest after leaving Boston, he's just forgotten. (In case anyone is interested, Crawford has done a decent job fitting in with the second unit on the Warriors, and with the starters resting in the last game against Denver, he got a chance to play extended minutes and had 41 points on 28 shots along with five rebounds, three assists, a steal, and a block.)

Part of me wants to see Green traded somewhere he can thrive, but mostly I'd like to see him traded so that he can be forgotten here, like Crawford. Being forgotten is better than being a constant recipient of vitriol.
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Post by swish Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:50 pm

sam wrote:I'm going to start calling Jeff "Popeye" because he is what he is what he is.  (It's possible that no one on the board except Swish knows what I'm talking about.)  In one sense, Jeff's like virtually all others on the team.  Before casting judgments in iron, it's probably a good idea to see what they can do on a team with some degree of normalcy.  Just as one tiny example of many, I think Jeff's pretty good at using picks.  Suppose more picks were being set for him by a real bruiser.  Think he might not have to settle for as many jump shots?

I'm not trying to manufacture excuses for Jeff because I don't necessarily believe he needs any.  He just needs to play on a team with a good basic, complementary core playing their rightful positions and having had the opportunity to play together for a while.  Then is the time to see what his game settles down to being...how his complementary piece provides what's needed from his position.

Perhaps he won't get that chance and will be traded.  If that happens, so be it.  But he definitely needs a role that he's comfortable with on some team, and I bet he'll turn out to be pretty good at discharging his responsibilities.

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Post by dboss Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:46 am

I have stated this many times.

Green does not have a great handle...that is the problem.

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Post by cowens/oldschool Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:31 am

dboss I agree, he is mentally weak, its an aberration everytime he goes for 30.

outside I had mixed feelings at the time of the Perk trade, by the time that years playoffs rolled around, I hated it, because our trademark defense that I loved lost its idenity, from a historic defense to one with obvious flaws especially when Krstic was on the floor.
Then later during that playoff run in 12 I was actually okay with it, cause if AB and Jeff Green could have given us anything, we beat the Heat, what a gritty run that was in 12, refs stole it, we had them/Heat and everyone knows it. Danny had the right plan actually.
Then last year I was okay with him showing occasional flashes of his athleticism and talent, knowing he recovered from major surgery....then this year this is all he can do? waited 3 years for a guy to......

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Post by cowens/oldschool Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:39 am

why is he such a wus on the boards, a guy 6'9" with that kind of jumping ability? his impact is always smaller than his stats, average players like Trevor Ariza or the guys on the Suns that I don't even know their names and other fringe players can have a good/great game against him and look like world beaters for a night....this happens to him ALL the time!!!

sorry I'll shut the fock up now.

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Post by cowens/oldschool Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:40 am

guess you know how I really feel....

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Post by 112288 Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:55 am

BOB,

You are so right on with your after comments!  Frustrating to say the least 'cause he has all the tools. 

But given that, consider this.    I would give him until half way through next year to see if he becomes more consistent game in and game out with new teammates.  Maybe the problem for Jeff was 2 fold for not getting to the rim: 1) The coach asked him to play a certain way that he is not comfortable in playing, i.e. role & style; 2) To play the role asked of him, perhaps there were not the right supporting cast of players to make his style happen, i.e. forwards or guards were not setting the right screens or picks for him. 

So what does Danny do is the next question?

112288


Last edited by 112288 on Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by cowens/oldschool Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:03 am

BOB? do you mean me Cow 112288? anyway thats the question, lets package him and other pieces in a trade for a legit 5, hes got a fair contract.

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Post by k_j_88 Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:21 pm

Cow,

I will pose this again; precisely what is the methodology in expecting Green to be something that he clearly isn't? What about his past before the Celtics pointed to the notion that he could be the go-to guy on another team? From what I've seen, there was absolutely nothing that even suggests that he's anything more than a complimentary player, which is essentially my point all along.


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Post by cowens/oldschool Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:08 pm

so what are you asking me? methodology?

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Post by k_j_88 Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:09 am

cowens/oldschool wrote:so what are you asking me? methodology?

Thought process.

What about Green's past made him appear to be a go-to guy?

I've looked at his stats since he first entered the league in 2007. His numbers have remained around the same levels for the most part, with various fluctuations. When he was coming out, I don't remember anyone talking about him like he was the next franchise type player.

I stated before that there was no evidence that Green was the go-to guy in OKC. Obviously Durant was and still is the better player, which meant Green was redundant. Ultimately, he had more value to OKC in a trade than on the roster.

Taking all of this into account, my search has yet to yield anything that suggests your expectations of what he should be are reasonable. This is the danger of judging a player purely on physical talents. You can't accurately gauge them as a player.

A while back, I said that Green was a glorified role player. He can be flashy and even potentially dominant, but that's not truly his game. He's better suited as a weapon on a good team. Think back to last season. Green didn't have the same pressure on him and he thrived. Let's stop expecting him to be something he's not when clearly there was no evidence to ever support him being a go-to guy in the first place.



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Post by 112288 Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:00 am

What made Green somewhat effective was that the concentration of effort of defense was on Durant.............leaving Green relatively unchallenged.

Now the opposite is happening...........everyone is keying in on Green. With a better supporting cast of players it will be interesting if he can get to the next level........that is of course if he is still with Boston.

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Post by cowens/oldschool Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:47 am

Last year he thrived? he was the same with better veteran players and he still didn't do enough, guy was 5th pick in the draft, I think most would be happy if he was a poor mans version of Rudy Gay, whatever your expectations are thats fine....and I was not expecting the second coming of Paul Pierce, even though a few on this board after being teased by one of his good games thought he could surpass Pierce when he got a shot as the primary scorer, well how did that work out? the guy has too many 6-8 point games, I'm tired of waiting for him to grow into a dependable starter, he constantly loses in match ups with fringe nondescript players, when Trevor Ariza constantly kicks your ass, I'd say we have a problem at that position.

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Post by k_j_88 Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:04 pm

Last year, Jeff played in 81 games and started 17. He averaged 12.8 points per game on 46.7% FG, including 38.5% from 3. He took an average of 10 shots per game. Jeff averages 27.8 minutes per contest.

This season, Jeff played and started all 82 games. He averaged 16.9 points per game on 41.2% FG, and 34.1% from 3. He averaged 14.3 shots per game and averaged 34.2 minutes per game.

Jeff's scoring went up, but his efficiency took a hit. To be fair, this was a transition year and he still performed relatively consistent with what he did last year. Last year, there was no Rondo. This year, Rondo missed more than half of the season and KG and Pierce were no longer on the team, in addition to the other many changes.

To corroborate what 112288 said, Green functions better with a group of players that have better chemistry. For the majority of the year, Green was considered thee most dangerous player on the team, and other teams could just work to eliminate his effectiveness and there wouldn't be many other options for the Celtics to deal damage with.

If Green is traded, hopefully it's to a good team where he doesn't have to deal with unrealistic expectations and can just play the game.



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