Can the Celtics use the trade exception to get Kendrick Perkins?

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Can the Celtics use the trade exception to get Kendrick Perkins? Empty Can the Celtics use the trade exception to get Kendrick Perkins?

Post by international Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:59 pm

If I were Danny I would do it.How about you?

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Post by k_j_88 Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:25 pm

Perkins, the next best thing at center at this point. I mean, who do they have to play center now other than midget Pressey?


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Post by dboss Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:22 pm

international wrote:If I were Danny I would do it.How about you?

Yep

OKC looking to move Perk....They need more offense.

Perk on last yr of contract at $9.2 mill.

If it works out resign him for short money or let him walk.

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Post by kdp59 Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:55 pm

OKC is reportedly after Gasol also, so they may be up for dumping Perkins deal.

we may have issues with the luxury tax line though.

$58M- Current salarys
$4M- Rookies
$7M Bradley (Guess here that it starts lower)
$9M- Perkins
that totals about $78M which puts us OVVER the tax line (which I don't see the owners wanting to do unless we are competing).

once we cut Bogams ,we are back down to $73M. But I wouldn't see anyone else but Iverson coming in at that point.

of course we can still try to move Bass for a future asset of a cheaper vet player to add more cap room as well.

so does a roster of:
Perkins
Fav
Iverson
Sully
Kelly O
Anthony
Green
Wallace
JOhnson
Bradley
Young
Smart
Rondo
Pressey

additional Guard or wing possibly for Bass in trade

make us a better team?






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Post by Sam Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:25 pm

Not a bad possibility.  On the plus side, Perk's specialty is defense, and I believe the probable lack of defensive chemistry without a defensive center will greatly retard the development of positive playing habits on this team.  On the negative side, I've never been sure how much of Perk's defensive successes with this team could be attributed to having KG at his side.

It could be a very positive motivator for Perk's friend, Rondo, too, if he's still here.

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Post by kdp59 Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:56 am

we've really com full circle as Celtic fans if we see Perkins as our best hope at center for next year, it seems.

Many have been saying how bad a player Perkins is since he left here and that he has some of the worst stats in the NBA.

I've never bought into that myself, as Perkins has always stayed in the rotation at OKC and they are an elite team. So they certainly feel he bring value to them.

Perk's contract is a bit out of whack even today at $9.6M, but IF keeping Rondo around long term is Danny's goal then bringing Perk back might be a savvy move.

I personally would prefer Jordan Hill , if we can sign him with the $5M Mid-level exception.

one other note:

after posting here yesterday I checked out OKC's salary cap and it appears trading Perkins' doesn't help them if they are trying to lure Gasol there.

they are at $69.9M now so even if they trade Perkins for nothing they would only be able to offer Gasol that same Mid-level exception.

of course that may be all that Gasol gets offered at either SA or Miami as well.


stay tuned, as they say.
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Post by hawksnestbeach Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:24 am

Perk's best days are years behind us and while he could plug the gap, I think a younger, cheaper bruiser like Iverson is a better answer for a team looking years ahead. Looking at the Smart pick and quick Bradley signing, though, I think RR will be shipped for a good big man. Hawk.

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Post by bobheckler Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:37 am

One BIG thing Perk has going for him that Iverson and Faverani do not have going for them is that he has years of experience anchoring an NBA defense. Did his departure from under KG's wing highlight his limitations? Yeah, it sure did, but he still knows how it's supposed to work and that's something the Celtics could sure use. Someone on the baseline who knows how to be the defensive floor general.



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Post by Sam Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:41 am

Hawk,

Given the market situation as it is right now, whom would you as a "good big man?" Another 6'- 6' 10" Pf masquerading as a center? Enough already. Someone (I think it was NYCelt) mentioned that Danny would very likely find a "stopgap' center for this season. While that idea scares the living bejesus out of me, Perk might represent the upper echelon of the stopgap pile. At least he is an intimidator (although I wonder what he'd be like at this stage of life without a KG at his side). For those who can understand his speaking attempts, he could represent a veteran leader. Even if his skills are eroding, he'll always be an example to teammates of trying your best at all times.

Unfortunately, failing a blockbuster trade involving Rondo (and seldom do elite small players bring elite large players in trade), the time has been frittered away when the Celtics had a chance of operating from a position of strength in terms of getting a center. Compromise is now the name of the game. I'm reconciled to the fact that the Celtics aren't going to get the quality of center who could have balanced the roster in no uncertain terms. All-in-all, Perk might represent the best short-term compromise left to the Celtics.

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Post by NYCelt Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:22 pm

Yes, that was me who scared the bejesus out of Sam with the stop-gap center comment.  Hey, a guy has to have a hobby!

It does look like Perk is on his way out of OKC, the latest comments suggesting Durant hit the weight room, although valid, aren't going to help earn him any love out there.

It looks like Perk could end up in Miami, where Riley has said he'll take a run at him.  That being true, and not knowing if Danny would even take a shot at Perk, I think I would prefer going after Hill regardless.  I think they're about the same size, well, height anyway.  Both are stronger defenders and not big on offense.  Perhaps someone can check this because I'm not 100% certain, but I think Jordan had better rebounding and scoring numbers on average per game than Perk, and did so playing fewer minutes per.  I believe Jordan is also younger, comes with a lower price tag, and could provide quality depth at C, where he does regularly play, should we eventually find the next Russell.

I'd rather see us pursue Hill as help now and a potentially better long-term fit for depth at two positions.

The Rondo rumor of the moment has Indiana trying to talk with us about a multi-team deal so they can acquire Rondo.  Maybe there's a center in that mix (said with tongue planted in cheek).
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Post by Sam Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:32 pm

NYCelt,

Lifetime, Hill has averaged 15 points and 12 rebounds per 36 minutes; Perk has averages 13 points and 14 rebounds per 36 (but only 6 and 9 respectively this past season).

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Post by kdp59 Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:41 pm

NYCelt,

i guess thats two of us that see Hill as a better option at center than Perkins.

for me it's more about age and cost, which Hill has over Perkins.

I also think Rondo will be gone before his current contract expires...so no love for paying perkins $9M will be gained there. I could be wrong on that though.

I do think Perkins would be fine for what we need at center though and feel that he is too much maligned due to his game being about the things that don't show up on stats sheets.


so we've gone from
Asik to Perkins
Gortat to Hill

I hope we don't have to go down too much farther down the talent level or we will already be at Fav and Iverson!
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Post by NYCelt Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:14 pm

Sam and kdp,

Combined quick points, sorry, this state baseball tourney is killing me, not to mention our team's pitching...

So it sounds like Perk and Hill have fairly similar numbers with Perk declining some this past year.  Similar game and size, Hill younger and cheaper.

I didn't really follow Hill this past season, but am aware he does play center, not just get thrown into the mix out of need.

I'll stick with edge to Hill.  I agree on age and cost being important factors.  He may have some further potential, I don't know, but sounds like the best available solution to come in and play now, improving our defense and rebounding.

Regards
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Post by hawksnestbeach Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:17 pm

Sam, At the moment, Iverson is my first choice for center for the upcoming season. To land an established center, I think we'd have to give up too much now to get anyone who'd really improve the team. Iverson is about Perk's size, a few years younger, and we don't have give up anything for him. Perk has experience, but as you note, his best years were with KG captaining the defense. If Perk wasn't good enough for us with KG, I don't think he'll improve us in '14-'15 with our current 4s.
As an either-or, I'd take Hill over Perk, because he has upside, but I wouldn't sell the farm to get him.
  Iverson, 25, may never make the grade. Summer league is probably his make-or-break chance. I'm hoping he is serviceable in a non-contending year, allowing Sully to play pf. Behind him are Vitor and Anthony, backups at best. None of these guys is going to start on a contending team, so I see us drafting high again next year, and finally landing a starting 5 for the future. I have little confidence that Vitor will ever be a difference-maker, but at the start of last year, he seemed pretty good. I think he has the skills, but apparently not the will, to play center in the NBA and take the contact.
  Rondo, I think is gone, but whether that leads directly or indirectly to a good center, who knows? It may be that we don't get that chess piece until next year. If Rondo goes, to me that's a clear sign that we will be in deep rebuilding mode (I won't use the T word) for another year.
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Post by Sam Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:37 pm

Hawk,

Do you mean Iverson is your first choice as the starting center for the coming season?  Wow, that's a real stretch of logic.  As things have worked out (or, more correctly, haven't worked out, we're not going to get a barn-burner rebounder or intimidator this season.  Maybe Iverson could play that role for a few minutes at  a time, but I'd have to have it proven to me that he could do it on a sustained basis.

At this point, I'm just hoping for a center with some skills who can do an experienced job of serving in a center role that will balance the roster.  I don't believe Vitor or Anthony qualify—Vitor because of lack of experience and Anthony because of lack of remaining skills.  I think Iverson's best role will be a a Greg Kite-type backup.

Maybe Rondo could fetch, if not an elite center, at least a center who can qualify as a placeholder who can aid and abet the young Celtics as they develop this season.

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Post by bobheckler Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:52 pm

hawksnestbeach wrote:Sam, At the moment, Iverson is my first choice for center for the upcoming season. To land an established center, I think we'd have to give up too much now to get anyone who'd really improve the team. Iverson is about Perk's size, a few years younger, and we don't have give up anything for him. Perk has experience, but as you note, his best years were with KG captaining the defense. If Perk wasn't good enough for us with KG, I don't think he'll improve us in '14-'15 with our current 4s.
  As an either-or, I'd take Hill over Perk, because he has upside, but I wouldn't sell the farm to get him.
  Iverson, 25, may never make the grade. Summer league is probably his make-or-break chance. I'm hoping he is serviceable in a non-contending year, allowing Sully to play pf. Behind him are Vitor and Anthony, backups at best. None of these guys is going to start on a contending team, so I see us drafting high again next year, and finally landing a starting 5 for the future. I have little confidence that Vitor will ever be a difference-maker, but at the start of last year, he seemed pretty good. I think he has the skills, but apparently not the will, to play center in the NBA and take the contact.
   Rondo, I think is gone, but whether that leads directly or indirectly to a good center, who knows? It may be that we don't get that chess piece until next year. If Rondo goes, to me that's a clear sign that we will be in deep rebuilding mode (I won't use the T word) for another year.
Hawk


Hawk,


If we have to go to war with the army we have and not the army we'd like then my depth chart at center would be:

Anthony, Vitor, Iverson, Kelly

Anthony is a veteran center, despite being undersized, and has 2 rings.  Yeah, I know he didn't do much to get them but he has been there, done that and that can be conveyed.  He has anchored a defense when his teammates had to play small-ball (obviously, if he's the starting center) for years and it was considered his job to lose, it didn't fall into his lap due to injury to the starter.  He's a Perk-like player in that his contributions don't show up in boxscores.  He's only 6'9", 235# but has a 7'5" wingspan.  I think, if Brad starts giving him minutes, he'll pleasantly surprise us.

Vitor has multi-years of pro experience, including most of one year in the NBA.  I'm fully aware of his aversion to contact, and that's what I don't like about him, but he has a year in Brad's system.  He might not even be ready by the start of the season, but I'd got with him as first backup.

Iverson will rock some poor guard's world with his picks.  He's also going to pick up a ton of fouls as refs blow rookie fouls on him and players flop.  I'm hopeful his age will bring some positives but he has yet to lace up an NBA sneaker in a meaningful game, so I'm loathe to rank him higher than someone who has.

Kelly should play PF, but if Vitor is unready he could provide depth.



bob



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Post by Sam Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:28 pm

We need an experienced center who still has enough game to put in a representative (not spectacular) performance at the center position.

If Anthony qualified, he would have played more last year.  He's with the team only because of his contract.

If Sully qualified, he'd have played more center instead of Sully based on his height along.

If Vitor qualified, he'd have played more—period.  I have a theory that Brad held him out of games as a courtesy so Vitor could keep his streak alive of never ever having touched an opponent on a basketball court.

We're all hoping Iverson can show enough to make the team.  But, if he does, odds are that it will be as a backup to play against opposing subs, not as a starting center for the Celtics.

Make no mistake, the Celtics still need experienced help at center—most likely in the form of a trade.  And that's just to be able to learn to play as a team—NOT, I repeat, NOT to become a contender.

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Post by kdp59 Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:29 pm

well Bob lets hope it doesn't come to this.

but if there are no new additions up front I think we ahve the smae three guys playing most of our mintues at ceter and power forward

In order

Sully
Bass
Kelly O

we'll be playing another year with a 2 -PF, SF and 2-guard lineup.


Fav might eb good for 800-1000 minutes in reserve if healthy.

Anthony is done, this will be his final year in the NBA.

but the good thing is we do stil have that $5M Mid-level contract.

at worst we could see Hill or maybe even Humphries back to join the mix inside.

Hill provides more legth and defense IMO. but since we've heard nothing since day one, I think he is waiting on LA other shoes to drop to see where he stands.

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Post by hawksnestbeach Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:41 pm

Bob, I don't disagree; that's where we are now. If we do stand pat on center; after summer league, training camp, and maybe a score of games, I hope Iverson proves worthy of substantial minutes. I wasn't aware of Anthony's wingspan, but have seen him hurt us, so I know he can contribute. My thought on acquiring any player now is we have to ask one question: will he help us win in 3 years? I look at Smart and Young and say, I think so. I look at Perk and say, been there and done that. I do like Perk for what he's given us; I just don't see him helping to hoist any more banners. I know he's close to Rondo, but I think Rondo will soon be gone. Hawk.

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Post by Sam Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:42 pm

It kind of fries the brain just to think about it, doesn't it kdp?  There's scarcely a thought we can utter about the center position that doesn't have an "if" or "maybe" or "hope" or "might" associated with it.  At least Hill's an unrestricted free agent, so that might make an acquisition by the Celtics a little more plausible.

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Post by worcester Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:06 pm

Such a confusing and sad state of affairs. We're thinking about Iverson as playing a serious role as a center, really? Has it come to that? We're thinking of trading  Rondo, a legitimate superstar and playoff game winner if not playoff MVP, for a middling center?
Surely Danny can work something out with someone. But whom? Alas, therein lies the conundrum. Sam's right, the guys need to learn to play Celtics' team ball with players in their proper positions. Otherwise, another wasted year.
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Post by k_j_88 Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:57 pm

Worcester,

Exactly. That's why I'm not trying to drum up any excitement over Iverson. I seriously doubt he's the solution and I'm just way more inclined to look at free agency as the only true means of finding a center.


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Post by Sam Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:47 pm

KJ,

Why free agency?  You've been reading how many fans are concerned about giving Avery Bradley $8 million because it straps them with regard to the salary cap.  The only way to avoid that is to send out salaries equal to the salaries you bring in—in other words, a trade.

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Post by swish Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:56 pm

I could care less about getting a center THIS YEAR.

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Post by Sam Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:03 pm

Gathering yet additional assets who will go through another directionless season for want of a balanced roster.  I guess floundering can be fun.  I like it baked and breaded with lemon.

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