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Summer Quandaries: The Second Jump Or Tip-Tip-Tip-Zip
by bobheckler Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:14 am
http://celticsgreen.blogspot.com/2014/08/sq14-20-second-jump-or-tip-tip-tip-zip.html
Bill Russell never felt he had to capture the rebound when he went up against an opponent, he just needed to keep the other guy from getting it. Then he went up again and grabbed it. It was this second jump, or the third or fourth or fifth, that gave him the edge. That ability to immediately get up again before the competition is a devastating weapon, and one that seems to have been overlooked by many players, and in the pre-draft measurements.
I’d like to see the second and third jumps added to the pre-draft combine. Both the height reached and the time to jump would be valuable to team’s assessments. Or for we Celtics-files, let’s add it to the candidates visits to the Waltham practice facility earlier in June; and add it as a secret weapon giving Ainge an edge.
Other players have utilized this tip-to-themselves, but I don’t think anyone has approached the efficacy with which Russell employed this stratagem. Sure, he tipped a lot of rebounds, and directed a lot of blocks, directly to a teammate (and the Celts were off and running), but this fight-them-to-a-tie and rally faster to make the capture was a mainstay of his genius. He combined this with a court presence identifying the location of his teammates so the outlet pass was instantaneous, such that many times a game this tip, tip, tip, zip launched a reversal of direction that ultimately demoralized opponents.
Although his jump is limited, the current Celtics player that most nearly duplicates this series of actions is Jared Sullinger. My hope is that with a little less poundage, his ability to rebound will actually improve, and also the Celtics running game.
This multi-jump rebounds, and in fact just tips that keep the ball alive, are additional stats that I think should be kept. However, Stats That Should Be Kept is a column for another time.
Only 43 more days until the start of training camp.
bob
MY NOTE: I think Lee Lauderdale has nailed this one right on the head this time. We've all bemoaned what appears to be the abandonment of the basketball fundamental called "boxing out", how nobody seems to put bodies on anybody anymore. There are those, including many of my friends, who say that today's athletes are too big, too fast to put a body on. For what it's worth, I say that's hogwash. If the offensive rebounder is bigger and faster isn't the defensive rebounder bigger and faster too? Why can't the bigger faster man put a body on the bigger faster man? Regardless, it is what it is and so the question is "what do we do about it?" We could just go back to teaching basics (I can already see the looks of horror on the faces of middle schoolers and high schoolers at the idea of nonstop drills) but even that will take the better part of a decade to produce real fruit. Or, we can do what Lee Lauderdale is proposing which is focus on who has the springs to do tip drills well.
Kelly and Sully are both earthbound creatures with limited athletic ability. They are also both very good at tipping the ball on offensive rebounds. Think back to all the times they got their rebounds on the 2nd or 3rd tip. The two of them together worked very well at that. Kelly would often get the first fingernail on the ball (because he's taller?) and Sully would then suck it in.
Somebody should tell the people who run the NBA Draft Combine about this idea, I think it would be a very valuable metric. They already to standing vertical leap measurements, why not just do one for multiple standing vertical leaps?
.
Bill Russell never felt he had to capture the rebound when he went up against an opponent, he just needed to keep the other guy from getting it. Then he went up again and grabbed it. It was this second jump, or the third or fourth or fifth, that gave him the edge. That ability to immediately get up again before the competition is a devastating weapon, and one that seems to have been overlooked by many players, and in the pre-draft measurements.
I’d like to see the second and third jumps added to the pre-draft combine. Both the height reached and the time to jump would be valuable to team’s assessments. Or for we Celtics-files, let’s add it to the candidates visits to the Waltham practice facility earlier in June; and add it as a secret weapon giving Ainge an edge.
Other players have utilized this tip-to-themselves, but I don’t think anyone has approached the efficacy with which Russell employed this stratagem. Sure, he tipped a lot of rebounds, and directed a lot of blocks, directly to a teammate (and the Celts were off and running), but this fight-them-to-a-tie and rally faster to make the capture was a mainstay of his genius. He combined this with a court presence identifying the location of his teammates so the outlet pass was instantaneous, such that many times a game this tip, tip, tip, zip launched a reversal of direction that ultimately demoralized opponents.
Although his jump is limited, the current Celtics player that most nearly duplicates this series of actions is Jared Sullinger. My hope is that with a little less poundage, his ability to rebound will actually improve, and also the Celtics running game.
This multi-jump rebounds, and in fact just tips that keep the ball alive, are additional stats that I think should be kept. However, Stats That Should Be Kept is a column for another time.
Only 43 more days until the start of training camp.
bob
MY NOTE: I think Lee Lauderdale has nailed this one right on the head this time. We've all bemoaned what appears to be the abandonment of the basketball fundamental called "boxing out", how nobody seems to put bodies on anybody anymore. There are those, including many of my friends, who say that today's athletes are too big, too fast to put a body on. For what it's worth, I say that's hogwash. If the offensive rebounder is bigger and faster isn't the defensive rebounder bigger and faster too? Why can't the bigger faster man put a body on the bigger faster man? Regardless, it is what it is and so the question is "what do we do about it?" We could just go back to teaching basics (I can already see the looks of horror on the faces of middle schoolers and high schoolers at the idea of nonstop drills) but even that will take the better part of a decade to produce real fruit. Or, we can do what Lee Lauderdale is proposing which is focus on who has the springs to do tip drills well.
Kelly and Sully are both earthbound creatures with limited athletic ability. They are also both very good at tipping the ball on offensive rebounds. Think back to all the times they got their rebounds on the 2nd or 3rd tip. The two of them together worked very well at that. Kelly would often get the first fingernail on the ball (because he's taller?) and Sully would then suck it in.
Somebody should tell the people who run the NBA Draft Combine about this idea, I think it would be a very valuable metric. They already to standing vertical leap measurements, why not just do one for multiple standing vertical leaps?
.
bobheckler- Posts : 61241
Join date : 2009-10-28
Re: Summer Quandaries: The Second Jump Or Tip-Tip-Tip-Zip
by Sam Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:42 am
Russell's multiple tip technique, on a regular basis, has never been duplicated because the most important thing wasn't (1) the height of the jump but (2) the speed of the jump and (3) planning, in advance, what to do with the ball. Only Russ has combined all three attributes.
In blocking shots (and this from a 5' 7" giant), it's more important to jump fast than to jump high. Because the ability to jump fast allows the jumper to wait until the ball actually leaves the shooter's hand before jumping, which is why Russ almost never went for fakes. In going for repeat rebounds, jumping speed allows the jumper to reach the ball before less quick opponents—and thus to control what is done with the ball (keep it in play, tip it to a teammate, grab it, etc.).
So, rather than testing only the height of multiple standing leaps, I believe testing the speed of multiple standing leaps to be more important. Perhaps some combination of speed and height would be the ultimate.
Sam
In blocking shots (and this from a 5' 7" giant), it's more important to jump fast than to jump high. Because the ability to jump fast allows the jumper to wait until the ball actually leaves the shooter's hand before jumping, which is why Russ almost never went for fakes. In going for repeat rebounds, jumping speed allows the jumper to reach the ball before less quick opponents—and thus to control what is done with the ball (keep it in play, tip it to a teammate, grab it, etc.).
So, rather than testing only the height of multiple standing leaps, I believe testing the speed of multiple standing leaps to be more important. Perhaps some combination of speed and height would be the ultimate.
Sam
Sam- Admin
- Posts : 22663
Join date : 2009-10-10 -
Re: Summer Quandaries: The Second Jump Or Tip-Tip-Tip-Zip
by beat Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:57 am
My favorite player, Havlicek led the Celtics in rebounds in the 69-70 season 7.7 RPG.
How in the world did a 6-5 player manage that?
HE BOXED OUT and he did this against many players much bigger and stronger. It's a mindset.
Although I never cared for him look at Dennis Rodman..... he wanted every miss and ended up getting his far share of them too.
beat
How in the world did a 6-5 player manage that?
HE BOXED OUT and he did this against many players much bigger and stronger. It's a mindset.
Although I never cared for him look at Dennis Rodman..... he wanted every miss and ended up getting his far share of them too.
beat
beat- Posts : 7032
Join date : 2009-10-13
Age : 70
Re: Summer Quandaries: The Second Jump Or Tip-Tip-Tip-Zip
by Sam Sun Aug 17, 2014 12:00 pm
As much as I dislike the guy, Rodman was also a very speedy jumper as though his toes and knees had built-in trampolines. I believe a lot of his game involved keeping opponents mystified as to how he could get up so much more quickly then they; and consequently, they tried to cheat and leave early but fell victim to ball fakes.
Sam
Sam
Sam- Admin
- Posts : 22663
Join date : 2009-10-10 -
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