The Motion Offense

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Post by dboss Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:13 pm

Brad Stevens probably studied The Indiana Hosiers motion offense that was perfected under coach Bobby Knight.  Every NBA team runs this offense to some degree but it is no longer the staple for most NBA offenses.

The San Antonio Spurs are a team that has reached some level of perfection with this style of play but the pick and roll and pick and pop is the staple for the modern day NBA.

The motion offense is not designed to get a team more shots or even good shots but it has been used effectively to create matchup problems when going against a bigger and slower team.

Brad has yet to fully implement the motion offense and although that may be his aim it will NOT happen as long as Rajon Rondo is running the point.   In my opinion that is not a bad thing. The Celtics do not need a motion offense to exploit miss matches. They do not neet a motion offense to get open looks and they do not need the motion offense to set tempo.

Rajon has proven over the years that he gets his teammates great opportunities to score the basketball.  He is without a doubt a dominant on the ball point guard but the question is does Rajon Rondo get his teammates good shots?  I think the answer is yes.

The Great Bob Cousy was often accused of being a ball hog and a hot dog but Cousy understood the complexities of the game and he knew who on his team could do certain things.  He knew where they had the best opportunity for success and he delivered the ball to them when it needed to be delivered.

The Spurs are a marvel.  But did you know that the Celtics put up more shots per game or that the Celtics average more offensive rebounds?  The Spurs made almost 50% of their shoots while Boston was buried in the low 40's.  As Bill Russell said it is all about buckets.

There has been a lot of chatter about rotations and who starts and who comes off the bench and who gets so many minutes.

I only have one thing on my wish list.  Run the ball and then run it some more and if a player stops running share a seat on the bench.  Brad will be well served if he uses the depth at several positions to amp up the pace of the game.  As far as implementing the motion offense he should defer to his PG just like Doc Rivers capitulated.  Give Rondo the ball and let him run the offense and your players will have an excellent opportunity to score provided they can shoot the damn rock.

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Post by k_j_88 Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:01 pm

One thing I have been curious about is how much emphasis has been placed on running the motion offense. Is it truly the better offense to use than a PG-centric one just because it's something Stevens wanted to run? I'm not so sure. I'd venture to say that neither is necessarily better than the other, primarily because not all players thrive the same way in both systems.

There is something I am sure of, however. Everyone needs to be moving a lot more. You can't get an easier shot if you're unwilling to break away from your man. This will elevate field goal percentages noticeably. Also, the Celtics need to improve on defense to limit second-chance points and gain more points through transition offense. This is where the tempo will come from.



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Post by Sam Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:44 pm

Dboss,

Bob Cousy was accused of being a hot dog by some people.  But virtually every bit of what he called "French pastry" was calculated to accomplish things that other playmakers of his era could not accomplish.  For instance, I'm now reading a book by Cousy that talks about how the behind-the-back dribble was a practical means of changing direction without exposing the ball to a defender via a cross-over move (which can expose the ball to the defender).  Yes, many of his moves were entertaining and ground-breaking, but most (if not all) had their functional side.

I never heard the Cooz, who I believe was the best playmaking enabler of all time—or any other Celtics of the 50s or 60s—called a ball hog by anyone who knew basketball.

I believe it's a reasonable question as to whether a motion offense will flounder or succeed with Rondo as part of it.  Perhaps a more productive use of it would be IF Marcus Smart is playing the "1" because the motion offense pretty much takes playmaking responsibility off the "1" guard.

As for the statement, "The motion offense is not designed to get a team more shots or even good shots," from what source does this statement come?  The motion offense can produce a lot of penetration for layups; and a layup is presumably a fairly desirable, high-percentage shot.  Moreover, a motion offense can speed up the time it takes for the team to take its first shot of a possession rather than pounding the ball on the perimeter or swinging it around the perimeter until the clock's running down; and there's very often time to try another option if the first try fails.  So a motion offense actually can result in more shots taken—at least compared with what we typically saw last season.

Neither the motion offense or any other offense (including the pick-and-roll) is a panacea.  But I believe the motion offense is pretty high on the list of offensive attack strategies.  I believe last season's Celtics offense was vastly too passive, and I'd welcome some kind of attack-oriented alternative.

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Post by dboss Sat Sep 27, 2014 2:43 pm

sam wrote:Dboss,

Bob Cousy was accused of being a hot dog by some people.  But virtually every bit of what he called "French pastry" was calculated to accomplish things that other playmakers of his era could not accomplish.  For instance, I'm now reading a book by Cousy that talks about how the behind-the-back dribble was a practical means of changing direction without exposing the ball to a defender via a cross-over move (which can expose the ball to the defender).  Yes, many of his moves were entertaining and ground-breaking, but most (if not all) had their functional side.

I never heard the Cooz, who I believe was the best playmaking enabler of all time—or any other Celtics of the 50s or 60s—called a ball hog by anyone who knew basketball.

I believe it's a reasonable question as to whether a motion offense will flounder or succeed with Rondo as part of it.  Perhaps a more productive use of it would be IF Marcus Smart is playing the "1" because the motion offense pretty much takes playmaking responsibility off the "1" guard.

As for the statement, "The motion offense is not designed to get a team more shots or even good shots," from what source does this statement come?  The motion offense can produce a lot of penetration for layups; and a layup is presumably a fairly desirable, high-percentage shot.  Moreover, a motion offense can speed up the time it takes for the team to take its first shot of a possession rather than pounding the ball on the perimeter or swinging it around the perimeter until the clock's running down; and there's very often time to try another option if the first try fails.  So a motion offense actually can result in more shots taken—at least compared with what we typically saw last season.

Neither the motion offense or any other offense (including the pick-and-roll) is a panacea.  But I believe the motion offense is pretty high on the list of offensive attack strategies.  I believe last season's Celtics offense was vastly too passive, and I'd welcome some kind of attack-oriented alternative.

Sam

Sam

I have been meaning to get back with you on this.

There is no need to defend Cousy. The references that I made to hot dogging and ball hogging is not mine but I can tell you that when I was watching Cousy and the Celtics along with people that I knew, that was certainly a topic of conversation just like topics that are discussed on this forum.

Bob Cousy remains the greatest point guard that ever play....I feel the same way you do.

I think the motion offense can be a very effective way to run an offense although the old Celtics were always in motion they still rely on set plays and that devastating fast break. As a matter of fact no Celtics team that I have seen has ever run the motion offense.

Nevertheless I agree that the motion offense does take the emphasis off the 1.

Which brings me to my next thoughts about the Rondo injury ad how the Celtics might respond.

With that in mind I'll post there

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Post by rickdavisakaspike Sat Sep 27, 2014 4:00 pm


One of the aggravating results of Rondo's broken finger is that he won't have a training camp during which he and Brad can negotiate his role. Negotiate is the word Bill Russell used to describe what went on between him and Red when Bill first came into the league with a new idea about how the center position should be played.

With Rondo on the sideline and Smart lacking professional experience, watch for Evan Turner to emerge as Brad's new project at point. Turner has experience at the position. He even played point guard for Indiana last season against the Celtics.

I'm looking forward to this season more and more every day. This team simply cannot be judged by what happened last year. Brad was asked to conduct a Chinese fire drill: no center, no point, and a bunch of guys who had never played together and didn't know their roles.

This year's very different. Sully is coming in in great shape and is going to be a beast. Bradley's shooting issues from having two shoulder surgeries are well behind him, his new contract makes him know he is wanted, and he's going to blossom. Kelly will emerge as the offense's go-to guy, and Zeller will run opponents' big men into the parquet.

That's not even taking into account what they might expect from Turner and Smart and Young. People are overlooking them and they have way too much talent to go down easy. Even without Rondo, no team is going to want to play them.

Get ready for a roller coaster ride to remember. Woo woo!


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