Post Game Thread - vs Minnesota Timberwolves, Away

[bobheckler]

A win is a win is a win. I'm getting tired of repeating that. We have got to stop winning like this, though, because good teams won't let us do this. You can't go down by 15, 13 in the 4th quarter, and keep pulling it out. Good thing we were playing the Timberpups.


Karl Anthony-Towns played a helluva game. I'm still sticking with Anthony Davis becoming the best player in the league in a few years, because of his defense as well as his offense, but KAT is and will be a force.

With the exception of Horford and Jerebko you can trade the rest of our front court and it wouldn't bother me a bit. I know they were going up against KAT and Gorgui Dieng (I didn't know Dieng was making $14M/year) but still, they shouldn't be complete zeroes neither. Zeller is terrible, Kelly has gone back to timid after a couple of good games and Amir doesn't look that good either. Jonas, after starting off the season looking quite weak, is starting to hit his stride again. He is playing with energy, his motor being the strongest part of his game, and he is making an impact beyond his box score. His 3pt fg%, which was 36.5% going into last night's game, is now up to 37.5%. That's what going 1-2 from downtown did. Jonas usually has so few fgas in a game all it takes is one good or bad game to make his numbers really move. I wouldn't start Jerebko, but he is showing he is valuable off the bench.

Horford is a stud, pure and simple. Not to take anything away from his Minny counterparts but Al Horford is one of those game-changers Danny is hunting for. 3 blocks again last night. He isn't listed among the league leaders in blocks, but that's because he hasn't played in enough games to qualify. He's averaging 2.6 blocks/game in the 5 games he has played in. That would make him 3rd in the league, behind Anthony Davis and Whiteside, if he did qualify. If Danny can get a bonafide center, so Horford can move to PF, then we're cooking.

Smart with another 3-9 and 6 TO night. He had 5 TOs halfway through the 2nd, so I guess we can say things got better because he only had one more for the rest of the game. Please stop shooting, Marcus. Jerebko doesn't need to shoot to be an asset, why do you think you do?

Jaylen Brown with 13 minutes of nothing.

This was, perhaps, Terry Rozier's most impactful game as a Celtic (although his playoff minutes last year are noteworthy). Stat-wise he looked good. He had 12 points in 16 minutes on 5-8, 2-4 from 3, and had 4 rebounds. Not bad, huh, but his impact on the game was larger than those numbers. We were dying and he picked us up. When nobody wanted to shoot, he shot (and hit). When they were running their offense anyway they wanted, he was disruptive on defense. Minny was shooting 50.8% from the field for the game through 3 quarters. That is really bad defense. They ended up shooting 41.9% for the game because they went cold and we shut them down and Terry Rozier's energy (and Jonas Jerebko's) is what cranked us up. Danny makes his share of bad draft picks, it is not a science and I don't think he is any worse than any other GM, but when disrespected #16 pick Rozier plays like this you have to think that maybe Danny really does know his job. Don't look now, but Rozier's 3pt shooting fg% is up to 45.7%. That, and his defense, will definitely earn him minutes in Brad's offense.

Speaking of which, I am getting down on the coaches. Thibs burned his starters out. He played them heavy minutes and used he last timeout with 5 1/2 minutes left in the 4th. Brad, smartly, didn't call a time out and give the Minny players a chance to rest. When the Minny starters were fresh, however, their offense looked MUCH better than ours, it was only when they got tired (Thib's fault) and their legs started to go that we got out chance. Thibs has a track record of doing this to his starters. As far as Brad goes, I don't like our offense. We are TOO perimeter-oriented. We pass around the perimeter in order to get an open perimeter shot. We penetrate, but only halfway, and then pass it out for an open perimeter shot. The only players who take the penetration all the way to the rim, and who finish effectively, are IT, Horford and Rozier. Not Bradley or Brown or Smart or Crowder or Zeller (who is strictly pnr, and does not drive at all) or Kelly or Amir (who is also strictly pnr). Which part of "we are not a good jump shooting team" doesn't Brad get? We aren't running as much as we used to neither. They destroyed us in the paint, 58-34, so we need to offset that by making them run, especially if Thibs doesn't like sitting his starters. They penetrated and shot. We penetrated and kicked out. 45%, 38-84, of our shots were 3pters.

Wiggins had an off-game, 5-18. I don't think we should count on that again.


Despite being down 2 starters for most of this season-to-date, and playing like shit for a lot of it, we are currently in 6th place, just 3 games behind Cleveland and only 2 games away from ownership of 2nd place in the east (1.5 games back from Atlanta). We're healthy, we're getting our starters' chemistry together. Here's where we start to see if Brad and Danny are on track.

Box Score:
http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400899655




bob



.

[bobheckler]

http://www.espn.com/nba/recap?gameId=400899655



Celtics rally from 13 down in 4th to beat Timberwolves 99-93


The Celtics opened up the fourth quarter by going on a 19-0 run in Boston's win over the Timberwolves. (0:59)

Boston
Celtics
8-6
99Final93
Minnesota
Timberwolves
4-9
1 2 3 4 T
BOS 23 19 26 31 99
MIN 21 31 29 12 93
Box Score
Play-By-Play
Highlights
9:36 PM PT
Associated Press



MINNEAPOLIS -- Cool as their unflappable head coach, Brad Stevens, the Boston Celtics never got down even as their deficit ballooned against the young and athletic Minnesota Timberwolves.

When the Celtics finally got going, the Wolves tensed up once again and let another big lead get away.

Isaiah Thomas scored 29 points and Boston rallied from 13 points down in the fourth quarter to beat the Timberwolves 99-93 on Monday night.

Al Horford added 20 points, six rebounds and five assists for the Celtics, who trailed 81-68 after three. Boston opened the fourth on a 17-0 run to take the lead and held on down the stretch for its second straight win.

"I think give us credit for playing a little harder than them and making them think a little more and getting them uncomfortable," Thomas said.

Karl-Anthony Towns had 27 points and 18 rebounds for the Timberwolves. Gorgui Dieng added 20 points and 10 rebounds, but Andrew Wiggins was just 5 for 18 and Minnesota scored three points in the first 9 minutes of the fourth.

"We laid a damn egg," said Zach LaVine, who was 4 of 12 from the field and 0 for 7 on 3-pointers.

Terry Rozier added a career-high 12 points off the bench and keyed the Celtics' surge in the first 6 minutes of the fourth.

The Timberwolves have normally reserved their meltdowns this season for the third quarter, when they have the NBA's worst point differential. But they won that period 29-26 on Monday night, just the second time this season they have outscored their opponent in the third.

Jonas Jerebko and Rozier opened the fourth with 3-pointers, and Rozier added another long ball and a steal and dunk to push the Celtics in front.

Towns was the only player who scored for the Wolves in the first 11 minutes of the fourth quarter, converting a three-point play with 5:18 to go for their first bucket and hitting a 3-pointer with 2:38 remaining.

Boston outscored Minnesota 31-12 in the fourth as the Timberwolves shot 5 for 25.

"They were definitely pressing," Celtics guard Marcus Smart said. "Guys were into guys, we were making everything hard. You could definitely tell they were pressing to find a great shot."

The Wolves outscored Boston 58-34 in the paint and outrebounded the Celtics 51-39, including 16-6 on the offensive glass. But Minnesota missed eight free throws.

"I think we have to play tougher with a lead," coach Tom Thibodeau said. "And the big thing for us is to improve and learn."


TIP-INS

Celtics: Horford also had three blocks and reached 20 points for the first time with the Celtics. ... Boston was issued a rare delay of game warning coming out of a timeout late in the third quarter. ... Jerebko was a plus-20 in under 19 minutes.

Timberwolves: Minnesota entered the game leading the NBA in 3-point shooting, but was 4 for 24. ... Towns has blocked a shot in 20 straight games. ... F Brandon Rush was active after missing the previous seven games with a sore big toe on his right foot. He played 2 minutes in the fourth quarter.


TEMPERS FLARE

One of the biggest guys on the court and the smallest got into it in the third quarter when the 6-foot-11, 240-pound Dieng leveled the 5-9, 185-pound Thomas with a screen. Dieng was called for an offensive foul because he was moving while he set the screen, and Thomas took exception. The All-Star guard got up and shoved Dieng, and the two exchanged words while being separated by teammates.


"It was the heat of the battle," Thomas said. "We talked about it after, and he loves my game, I love his, so we're good."

CROWDER AILING

Jae Crowder missed eight games with a sprained left ankle before returning on Saturday against Detroit. He made life difficult on Wiggins, who was 0 for 5 from 3-point range. But Crowder had to leave the game in the third quarter because of soreness in that left ankle and did not return.

"Hopefully he'll be OK," Stevens said.

UP NEXT

Celtics: Boston wraps up a three-game road trip in Brooklyn on Wednesday night.

Timberwolves: Minnesota starts a three-game trip with a game at New Orleans on Wednesday night in which Towns will face fellow Kentucky big man Anthony Davis.



______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2016/11/boston_celtics_analysis_al_hor_1.html



Boston Celtics analysis: Al Horford, Terry Rozier spark remarkable comeback against Minnesota Timberwolves


Minnesota Timberwolves' Gorgui Dieng, right, of Senegal, reaches in for the ball as Boston Celtics' Al Horford of Dominican Republic drives in the first quarter of an NBA basketball game Monday, Nov. 21, 2016, in Minneapolis. (AP Photo/Jim Mone)


Jay King | mjking@masslive.com By Jay King | mjking@masslive.com



on November 22, 2016 at 6:00 AM, updated November 22, 2016 at 6:12 AM



Al Horford, Terry Rozier, huge fourth-quarter comeback send Boston Celtics past Minnesota Timberwolves, 99-93


The Boston Celtics comeback Monday night did not knock on the front door to announce its arrival. Without any warning, the Celtics marched straight into the Minnesota Timberwolves kitchen, raided the pantry, stole the tastiest food in the place, and somehow found ways to strip away a 15-point deficit.

According to Inpredictable, the Celtics held a four percent chance of winning when they called timeout with 18 seconds left in the third quarter. At the time they trailed 81-66 and, because of one mistake or another, had spent most of the second half grumbling at each other. The Celtics seemed to be spending more energy complaining to themselves than trying to limit Karl-Anthony Towns and Gorgui Dieng. Before the third quarter ended, the Timberwolves big men combined for 39 points and 22 rebounds, including 10 on the offensive glass. Frustrated about Minnesota's physical dominance inside, Marcus Smart lit into the Celtics during a huddle.

Even in a most optimistic moment, Smart could not have foreseen the response: a defensive-oriented, 19-0 run during which Al Horford and the Celtics bench kept the Timberwolves scoreless for more than half of the fourth quarter. Minutes after hearing Smart's call to action, Horford and Terry Rozier jumped up and down on the Timberwolves sofa while Isaiah Thomas watched on like he had never seen anything more wonderful in his life:

https://vine.co/v/5tHBdDF32Ud


During the spurt, which took seven minutes, Horford racked up six points, two rebounds, an assist and a block -- stats that fail to reveal how he bothered Towns and Andrew Wiggins at the rim and invigorated the entire Celtics roster. Rozier pumped in two 3-pointers, a steal, and a high-flying fast-break dunk that almost convinced Thomas to jump on the court in celebration. As head coach Brad Stevens told reporters, "(Jonas Jerebko) was just playing so hard. It didn't matter if he made a shot or not. He made contact on rebounds. He and Smart, it feels like, and Terry were going after rebounds like they were the most important things in the world. We need that."

Almost drawing dead with 12 minutes to play, the Celtics tied the game at 81-81 with 6:54 left, pushed ahead less than a minute later, and kept the lead the rest of the way. The comeback overwhelmed the Timberwolves with stunning force.


The earlier troubles

Celtics head coach Brad Stevens went out of his way to call the Timberwolves a bad matchup, and, well, yes. His team is the league's worst at defensive rebounding; the Timberwolves rank No. 2 in offensive rebounding. His team can get hurt by mobile size; the Timberwolves start a pair of 7-footers, including one, Towns, who might be the NBA's best young player.

For three quarters, the Celtics appeared incapable of overcoming all of Minnesota's athleticism and talent. Isaiah Thomas had some troubles (by his standards) with Ricky Rubio and all of Boston's big men looked (were?) physically inferior to their opponents. The Timberwolves racked up 50 points in the paint, more than double Boston's mark, as Towns and Dieng rampaged inside. Before the fourth quarter, Minnesota rebounded 12 of its 30 misses -- a revolting stat if you're the Celtics.

How did Horford and the bench change things?

A lot of hard work.

For example:



via GIPHY

Dieng catches the ball in the paint, like he did plenty of times on the night. The difference here? Multiple efforts. Jaylen Brown flies in to delay the big man's shot, giving Horford enough time to hustle in for the block.

During the ensuing possession, Horford did this:

https://vine.co/v/5tXQnbKFwtr

(MY NOTE:  Aside from the joy of watching a Celtic big putting the ball on the floor and finishing at the rim, I loved watching IT on the sidelines.  Watch him as he is standing in the corner, and then moves around onto the baseline and cheers when Horford slams it.)  

Throughout the fourth quarter, he was a monster in just about every way. After Thomas almost threw a turnover, Horford batted the loose ball to Marcus Smart for an open 3-pointer. When Towns tried to free himself for a layup, Horford altered the youngster's plans:



via GIPHY

When Wiggins had a path to the lane, Horford slid his feet to cut it off:



via GIPHY

By disrupting so much of what the Timberwolves tried to accomplish, Horford helped force them into an 0-for-13 drought to start the fourth quarter, making possible a comeback Boston never foreshadowed. The Celtics might have lost Jae Crower (again) and still need to play with more consistent force, but have shown off a stubborn fortitude over each of the past two games.



bob



.

[mrkleen09]

Bob

I think your criticism was a bit over the top in places, but i give you a 98% - very well written as usual.

Couple of random comments:

I think the Timberwolves have some good young pieces, but this is what a team looks like with no real veteran leadership. When the game was free flowing, they looked good and were laughing it up, rubbing in the Celtics faces. But when the game tightened up and they needed to run plays, forget it - dont have any that work and they reverted back to one on one play.

That AND the Celtics were not happy with the over celebrating that was happening in the second quarter - and IT remembered it down the stretch.

The one place I disagree with Bob most above is in his criticism of Smart. Marcus totally turned the game around from an attitude and intensity standpoint, and apparently had some choice words for his teammates - that helped spark the comeback. If you are going to take 3 charges, have 2 or 3 steals, bang Wiggins around and get in the face of the opponent and intimidate them into 1-19 shooting - you can take a few bad shots. I have zero problem with Smart shooting, he earns the ability with the other aspects of the game.

The Celtics are still clearly a work in progress. Jae Crowder is still hurting and AB looked off last night. Gerald Green has yet to find his role and KO, Zeller and Amir need to find more consistency. But the sparks are there, and they will get better. Still a few players away, but a lot of fun to watch.

[dboss]

Hey bob

I thought Marcus played well despite the turnovers and 3/9 shooting.

He did make 3 of 6 from behind the arc and he also had 6 rebounds and 5 assists.  During the 3rd quarter run he was instrumental.  His mental toughness infected the whole team.

I also thought that while Jalen did not produce  stats he was also part of the 3rd quarter run and played good defense.

There is only one word to describe KO.  "Soft"   Zeller also looks horrible as does Amir.  Our front line may be the weakness collection of players in the NBA.

Jerebko played better but he is also another guy that cannot be counted on game in and game out.  

Wow..Horford has a ton of skills at both ends.

What can I say about Rozier.  The knock on him was his outside shooting and limited focus on running an offense.  This kid has real potential to be a big time scorer and defender. He is really lightning quick and has big hops.  It was a great game from him.

Yes we will take the win and considering we have struggled to beat the Wolves on the road it was a good win.

dboss

[cowens/oldschool]

bob Smart was 3-6 from 3, thats 50%, thats a good avg right? Levine was 0-7 from 3, thats 0%. Wiggins was 5-18 FG, guess Timberwolves should waive him.

could all that have been the difference in the win? call it fairly, WE all know you know the game.

[bobheckler]

Hey bob

I thought Marcus played well despite the turnovers and 3/9 shooting.

He did make 3 of 6 from behind the arc and he also had 6 rebounds and 5 assists.  During the 3rd quarter run he was instrumental.  His mental toughness infected the whole team.

I also thought that while Jalen did not produce  stats he was also part of the 3rd quarter run and played good defense.

There is only one word to describe KO.  "Soft"   Zeller also looks horrible as does Amir.  Our front line may be the weakness collection of players in the NBA.

Jerebko played better but he is also another guy that cannot be counted on game in and game out.  

Wow..Horford has a ton of skills at both ends.

What can I say about Rozier.  The knock on him was his outside shooting and limited focus on running an offense.  This kid has real potential to be a big time scorer and defender. He is really lightning quick and has big hops.  It was a great game from him.

Yes we will take the win and considering we have struggled to beat the Wolves on the road it was a good win.

dboss

dboss and MrKleen,

Smart also had 6 TOs. The team had 11, total. That means that Marcus Smart had over half of the teams' TOs. He played well despite creating a ton of empty possessions what with his TOs and poor shooting? Other than that, how'd you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln?

He needs to work on the quality of his play on the other side of the ball, IMO.


bob


.

[mrkleen09]

There are players for whom stats dont tell the whole story. I was having this very discussion with my wife last night, as she is a very astute observer of the game.

She said - if this KAT guy is so great, why isnt he able to score when they need him to? Towns has much better "stats" than Horford, but Al is a far superior overall player at this point. I feel the same way about Marcus.

I agree he could be more expeditious in his shot selection and a few more drives and a few less 3 pointers would be good for me as well. But he is like an unorthodox fighter who most often on the winning end of a battle. Sure is form could be better, but you cannot put a stat to his heart and desire. I am a big fan of Marcus and don't think numbers do him justice.

[cowens/oldschool]

one more thing bob 'gone back to timid'? thats all hes ever been

[cowens/oldschool]

Hey bob

I thought Marcus played well despite the turnovers and 3/9 shooting.

He did make 3 of 6 from behind the arc and he also had 6 rebounds and 5 assists.  During the 3rd quarter run he was instrumental.  His mental toughness infected the whole team.

I also thought that while Jalen did not produce  stats he was also part of the 3rd quarter run and played good defense.

There is only one word to describe KO.  "Soft"   Zeller also looks horrible as does Amir.  Our front line may be the weakness collection of players in the NBA.

Jerebko played better but he is also another guy that cannot be counted on game in and game out.  

Wow..Horford has a ton of skills at both ends.

What can I say about Rozier.  The knock on him was his outside shooting and limited focus on running an offense.  This kid has real potential to be a big time scorer and defender. He is really lightning quick and has big hops.  It was a great game from him.

Yes we will take the win and considering we have struggled to beat the Wolves on the road it was a good win.

dboss

dboss and MrKleen,

Smart also had 6 TOs.  The team had 11, total.  That means that Marcus Smart had over half of the teams' TOs.  He played well despite creating a ton of empty possessions what with his TOs and poor shooting?  Other than that, how'd you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln?

He needs to work on the quality of his play on the other side of the ball, IMO.


bob


.

you have to be able to play through your mistakes and misses, thats what I tell my son. Smarts defense is such a constant that his unorthodox offensive game which still does help the offense and team make him a winning player that you want to go to war with.

[cowens/oldschool]

Right now Smart sure looks alot better than Kris Dunn both ends.

[bobheckler]

Right now Smart sure looks alot better than Kris Dunn both ends.

Cowens,

True, but Kris Dunn is a rookie and Smart is in his 3rd year. If we're comparing players like that, lets compare rookie Jaylen Brown to the #2 pick in Smart's 2014 draft, Jabari Parker. Of course Parker looks better than Brown, Brown is a rookie.



bob


.

[bobheckler]

I didn't realize that Jonas Jerebko played the entire 4th quarter, when we went on a 19-0 run and shut them down. He's another hard-working, don't-look-at-his-boxscore guy.


https://www.facebook.com/bostonceltics/videos/10154626743247667/



bob


.

[Ram]

Dieng signed a 4 year 64 million extension a few weeks ago that is a bargain considering he still has upside and is making the same as the 30 year old Mozgov and less than Noah and Biyombo. I think he'll be the best of those 4 players the next 4 years. 

I'd still take Amir and Olynyk over Jerebko for sure. Last night (and in just 1-2 other games all season) Jonas came up big, but he has been AWFUL in 6-7 games. Amir has come up big in the same 2-3 games, but been steady in 6-7 others and only awful in 1-2. Olynyk is also up and down, but as long as he's injury free his up's are better than Jonas's up's, like his 19p-7r-3a game vs. NY.

[dboss]

Sounds like a case for relative badness

dboss

[cowens/oldschool]

Right now Smart sure looks alot better than Kris Dunn both ends.

Cowens,

True, but Kris Dunn is a rookie and Smart is in his 3rd year.  If we're comparing players like that, lets compare rookie Jaylen Brown to the #2 pick in Smart's 2014 draft, Jabari Parker.  Of course Parker looks better than Brown, Brown is a rookie.



bob


.

Smarts rookie year was alot better than Dunn this year so far

[Ram]

Right now Smart sure looks alot better than Kris Dunn both ends.

Cowens,

True, but Kris Dunn is a rookie and Smart is in his 3rd year.  If we're comparing players like that, lets compare rookie Jaylen Brown to the #2 pick in Smart's 2014 draft, Jabari Parker.  Of course Parker looks better than Brown, Brown is a rookie.



bob

Smarts rookie year was alot better than Dunn this year so far

It also bears mentioning that Smart was born on March 6th, 1994 and Dunn less than 2 weeks later on March 18th, 1994.

[swish]

And lets not forget that Smart has logged ( college and nba ) 5947 minutes vs 3247 by Dunn.

swish

[dboss]

And let's not forget another importantly insignificant fact.

Dunn played in the east at Providence while Smart was at the same school that Tony Allen went to.  

dboss

[worcester]

And don't overlook the implications of their names. Smart vs. Dunn (the old English word for Dumb).

[international]

Yes,is very interesting to see that while players like Dunn,Ingram,Hield and others have low shooting %,people only talk about Marcus Smart .Basketball is a lot more that an outside shot and Marcus with his defense,leadership,is the best example.

[cowens/oldschool]

Yes,is very interesting to see that while players like Dunn,Ingram,Hield and others have low shooting %,people only talk about Marcus Smart .Basketball is a lot more that an outside shot and Marcus with his defense,leadership,is the best example.

you know the game man, those other players could find their games at some point, Smart already found his and is just such a menacing defensive player able to defend so many positions, for our defense and team to succeed, we need him.

[Sponsored content]