Re: Danny Ainge addresses reality facing Celtics: ‘We have a lot of good players, but we need some great ones’

by **fierce** Mon May 29, 2017 11:21 pm

RosalieTCeltics wrote:So what does that mean for Kelly? How much is his worth? I have my opinions, but I am curious what others think.

Another thing, it has been stated that if they ever did sign Hayward, Crowder would be gone. Who would back up Hayward? Is putting Crowder on the bench anticipated as an issue? Or a waste of a body?

Interesting problems facing this team.

Don't forget Celts have Jaylen Brown.

In fact, if the Celts don't get Hayward, Brown should start and Crowder the backup.

And Oly's value, according to reports, is around 15m per year.

by **dboss** Tue May 30, 2017 12:07 am

If DA was really interested in Noel he would already have him. Dallas needs to retain him and will be willing to shell out big time dough.

DA is going to focus on upgrading the front line and as everyone knows I am in total agreement with that. That will require at least 2 new pieces so just say goodbye to a few players. This could be the summer we have been waiting for.

We got the #1 pick. That is a keeper. Block out noise.

Next we have $25 mill to renounce (Amir, Zeller and Jonas) plus other players. That is were that max contract money is coming from.

The question remains who do you use it on. From my perspective it must be a big. The Celtics cannot afford to waste time and cash on AH. He deserves a complimentary player. That is actually the biggest hole on the team.

Ya still gotta keep the #1 pick. Assuming a player like A Davis was not in the mix.

So I would not use the cap space on any position other than a big. I would keep the pick and also make a trade and spend some of that cap space. If DA can do this and still hold on to the 2018 Nets pick, I will never say anything bad about him again.

Since 1960 I have been a Celtics fan and we have had everything a fan could
hope for except the #1 pick. This is historical. Dont f... with the #1 pick. Celtics nation has been blessed. TOP pick and TOP talent in the same year.

dboss

by **fierce** Tue May 30, 2017 12:17 am

dboss wrote:If DA was really interested in Noel he would already have him. Dallas needs to retain him and will be willing to shell out big time dough.

DA is going to focus on upgrading the front line and as everyone knows I am in total agreement with that. That will require at least 2 new pieces so just say goodbye to a few players. This could be the summer we have been waiting for.

We got the #1 pick. That is a keeper. Block out noise.

Next we have $25 mill to renounce (Amir, Zeller and Jonas) plus other players. That is were that max contract money is coming from.

The question remains who do you use it on. From my perspective it must be a big. The Celtics cannot afford to waste time and cash on AH. He deserves a complimentary player. That is actually the biggest hole on the team.

Ya still gotta keep the #1 pick. Assuming a player like A Davis was not in the mix.

So I would not use the cap space on any position other than a big. I would keep the pick and also make a trade and spend some of that cap space. If DA can do this and still hold on to the 2018 Nets pick, I will never say anything bad about him again.

Since 1960 I have been a Celtics fan and we have had everything a fan could
hope for except the #1 pick. This is historical. Dont f... with the #1 pick. Celtics nation has been blessed. TOP pick and TOP talent in the same year.

dboss

Totally agree!

A few years ago some Celtic fans would tell you the NBA would never give the Celts the #1 pick.
Some believed the conspiracy that the NBA would screw the Celtics if the Celts had a chance at the #1 pick.

by **dboss** Tue May 30, 2017 12:39 am

RosalieTCeltics wrote:So what does that mean for Kelly? How much is his worth? I have my opinions, but I am curious what others think.

Another thing, it has been stated that if they ever did sign Hayward, Crowder would be gone. Who would back up Hayward? Is putting Crowder on the bench anticipated as an issue? Or a waste of a body?

Interesting problems facing this team.

Many difficult questions Rosalie.

After 4 years there appears to be little room for KO to get better. We need a starting big and we need a better rotation big off the bench. The Celts need to avoid a $15 million obligation without clearer evidence.

Jaylen Brown is the presumptive starting SF. You do not draft at #3 unless you are drafting a starter. If Boston gets Hayward, Jaylen will never be the starting SF on this team. If they get Hayward, Crowder would be moved. If they played Jaylen at the 2 you would be very vulnerable on defense at the 3.

Hayward cannot check any of the top end SF in this league.

Celts must continue to be very prudent with their cap space.

I think we are in for several trades and free agent signings.

dboss

by **cowens/oldschool** Tue May 30, 2017 10:07 am

I'd pass on KO and Hayward

by **RosalieTCeltics** Tue May 30, 2017 10:39 am

I am totally ready to say goodbye to Kelly. He has teased us once too often and then fallen off the edge into a dark hole. Consistency, this is what I yearn for. Someone we can rely on in a game to PUT THE BALL IN THE HOLE when necessary.. Kelly stretches the floor, does some good things PERIODICALLY, never game after game after game. Is Danny willing to let go? This was a pick he moved up to get and I sometimes scratch my head as to why. Potential is a big word. Consistency is what I want, and someone who will not be afraid to take that shot when it is there.

by **gyso** Tue May 30, 2017 2:01 pm

Does Kelly Olynyk equal a taller, less athletic Jeff Green?

He puts out one good game every five games or so, a great one once a month, but for the most part he underperforms?

gyso

by **RosalieTCeltics** Tue May 30, 2017 2:54 pm

As a former Jeff Green supporter, I have to say "Does he even put together one game out of ten"? The tease is there, KG once said Green was the next Celtic superstar, it is between the headsets I am afraid. He is a smart guy, but just doesn't perform to his ability. The funny thing is, he got $15 million from Orlando! So..............who gives KO
that crazy contract, Toronto? Home grown boy makes good when he goes home? That would be the killer since we will be fighting them next year just like this past year.

by **kdp59** Tue May 30, 2017 3:52 pm

cowens/oldschool wrote:I'd pass on KO and Hayward

if you were GM, what would your off-season look like?

I'm curious as you always want better big men ( we can all agree with that I think).

I'm starting to think If Durant does not come sniffing again, that Millsap maybe the guy in a surprise move. I can see him wanting a chance a title and playing with his old pal Horford ( they did lead a 60 win season a couple years ago at Atlanta). He certainly would make more sense than Hayward , as long as he's willing to play for less than max.

what are your thoughts?

by **dboss** Tue May 30, 2017 7:15 pm

kdp59 wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:I'd pass on KO and Hayward

if you were GM, what would your off-season look like?

I'm curious as you always want better big men ( we can all agree with that I think).

I'm starting to think If Durant does not come sniffing again, that Millsap maybe the guy in a surprise move. I can see him wanting a chance a title and playing with his old pal Horford ( they did lead a 60 win season a couple years ago at Atlanta). He certainly would make more sense than Hayward , as long as he's willing to play for less than max.

what are your thoughts?

Regarding Milsap The Hawks can give him more money than Boston. The real reason AH signed with Boston was first about the money (we gave him more than ATL offered) and 2nd Boston was an up and coming team with a great fan base and an amazing tradition for winning.

I always liked Milsap but he is North of 30 (age 32) and he will opt out of his $21 million contract and reup with the Hawks for a ton of money. An amount significantly more than the Celtics can or should pay him.

The other consideration has to do with size and getting a better rim protector. Milsap is an undersized PF. I think Boston should pass.

Dboss

by **cowens/oldschool** Tue May 30, 2017 9:33 pm

kdp59 wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:I'd pass on KO and Hayward

if you were GM, what would your off-season look like?

I'm curious as you always want better big men ( we can all agree with that I think).

I'm starting to think If Durant does not come sniffing again, that Millsap maybe the guy in a surprise move. I can see him wanting a chance a title and playing with his old pal Horford ( they did lead a 60 win season a couple years ago at Atlanta). He certainly would make more sense than Hayward , as long as he's willing to play for less than max.

what are your thoughts?

I've been watching a lot of film on Zizic and Faultz on youtube. I am very pleased with Zizic as he relishes contact and loves doing the dirty work, the 10 million dollar question is how will it translate to the next level? David Blatt seems to love the kid, theres video of him praising the kids work ethic and motor on Reds Army. The best FA's out there are Hayward and Blake Griffen, I would pass on both of them and stay the course of building thru the draft. I would love to see IT avg say 22 a game, take the scoring load off him, get more points from Jaylen, AB, Smart, Big Al and ofcourse Faultz. Start the year with him coming off the bench, if he starts over AB make him earn it, if its meant to be, then ofcourse as long as it works do it. Eventually want to see Jaylen and Faultz starting or earning a lot of meaningful minutes. Don't know how soon it could happen, but would love a starting lineup of IT, Faultz, Jaylen, Horford, Zizic, with AB, Smart, Crowder, Yabu and Rozier coming off bench. Smart has to work on his finishing with both hands as much as his 3 point shooting, couldn't believe how many layups he blew in playoffs. Plus for a lot of stretches he was covered by Kyrie and couldn't attack or exploit that match up, he should have been able to post up Kyrie at will with his superior strength and size. I've given up on KO for obvious reasons, see how soft and terrible he was in game 5? Next year we get lucky and add another potential big to this core.

by **kdp59** Wed May 31, 2017 7:06 am

I dunno, I just have a feeling that Millsap would like a chance to win a championship. Atlanta has been going backwards since they broke up that 60 win team.

Millsap does exactly the things Brad likes (like Horford) AND he is competing at a HIGHER level than Horford now. Again I am not talking about a max 4 year deal, but a 3 years one (ends with Horfords on purpose) in the $23-25M range. I think he makes more sense than the injury prone Blake Griffin or another SF in Hayward (both require max contracts).

Millsap is a very good defender who's per 36 numbers last year were 19.1pt/ 8.2 Reb/ 3.9 Assists/ 1.4 steals and 1.0 blocks.

with Jaylen and Fultz as the future, Millsap and Horford could be the bridge to continue the climb until the kids are ready to take over the team.

by **dboss** Wed May 31, 2017 8:08 am

kdp59 wrote:I dunno, I just have a feeling that Millsap would like a chance to win a championship. Atlanta has been going backwards since they broke up that 60 win team.

Millsap does exactly the things Brad likes (like Horford) AND he is competing at a HIGHER level than Horford now. Again I am not talking about a max 4 year deal, but a 3 years one (ends with Horfords on purpose) in the $23-25M range. I think he makes more sense than the injury prone Blake Griffin or another SF in Hayward (both require max contracts).

Millsap is a very good defender who's per 36 numbers last year were 19.1pt/ 8.2 Reb/ 3.9 Assists/ 1.4 steals and 1.0 blocks.

with Jaylen and Fultz as the future, Millsap and Horford could be the bridge to continue the climb until the kids are ready to take over the team.

I do not think Milsap would take a three year deal. This will probably be his last big contract opportunity. I read some fugures in the $200 million range. Crazy numbers.

Dboss

by **kdp59** Wed May 31, 2017 8:47 am

perhaps and the Hawks can give him more cash for sure.

but Millsap is the last starter from that 60 win team they had. Korver ,Horford , Teague and Carroll are all long gone.

they have Howard under contract now and a new GM taking over this year.

I really don't think the Hawks will pay Millsap that max deal and especially not the $200M max. If not, then I think WE become his top choice. And frankly we may be anyway, with all the changes in Atlanta.

just another option, but it is one that works without gutting the youth here.

by **cowens/oldschool** Wed May 31, 2017 10:01 am

Millsap would be a huge upgrade over Kelly, but at 25 mill? Really is he worth that at 32? I like him, but at some point we have to keep our own.

by **dboss** Wed May 31, 2017 10:08 am

Atl was so close to taking that next step and then things started to unravel. First they loss Carroll to free agency, blundered in signing Howard who is a bad fit for their stlye and let Boston snatch AH over the summer. Then they moved Teague and Koever.

There is no guarantee that they will keep Milsap. The more I think about it the more it seems likely that they do not throw money at Milsap because in reality they are already in a rebuilding environment.

If you had a choice between getting Milsap, Griffin or Serge Ibaka which one do you prefer?

Toronto may not be willing to resign both Lowry and Ibaka.

I think Serge may be the least expensive of the 3.

Dbosd

by **kdp59** Wed May 31, 2017 10:13 am

well, I was all for trying to trade for Ibaka at the dealine this year. SO I obviously think he would fit here. But lets be honest, Millsap is the better player. IF the dollars are the same, I think its a tough choice, but with Millsap's past play with Horford, that may tilt the field a bit.

who knows?

by **dboss** Wed May 31, 2017 1:26 pm

I also thought DA would make a trade for a player like Serge but since he was going to be an unrestricted free agent Danny passed.

DA is so much smarter than the rest of us. In the end he could sign Ibaka and not have to part with assets. Ibaka is coming off an Amir level contract of $12.5 million. We could perhaps get him for $16- $20 but a lot will depend on what the Raptors want to do as well as other teams that need a PF and have money to spend.

I think ATL will continue to make bad decisions and lock Milsap up. Griffin probably stays in LA.

It will not be easy to land a quality big.

Dboss

by **kdp59** Wed May 31, 2017 4:28 pm

I agree that Ibaka will be in the $15-18M range.

that is much easier for Danny to get to than a near max deal for sure.

we can renounce Amir and Jerebko as well as not picking up Zellers second year getting us the cap space needed above.

we then still have the rights to match Kelly and as well as the rights to Mickey (non guaranteed) and Green, Young to resign if we choose.

it's actually a much easier off season to make happen, though with Fultz here we will have a glut at guard ( for one year at least).

how much better are we with an off-season of :
Ibaka replacing Amir
Fultz replacing Green
Yabusele replacing Jerebko
Zizic replacing Zeller
Nader replacing Young?
Second round pick competing with Mickey?

I think it is very do-able if Danny thinks we are that close.

by **bobheckler** Wed May 31, 2017 4:48 pm

kdp59 wrote:I agree that Ibaka will be in the $15-18M range.

that is much easier for Danny to get to than a near max deal for sure.

we can renounce Amir and Jerebko as well as not picking up Zellers second year getting us the cap space needed above.

we then still have the rights to match Kelly and as well as the rights to Mickey (non guaranteed) and Green, Young to resign if we choose.

it's actually a much easier off season to make happen, though with Fultz here we will have a glut at guard ( for one year at least).

how much better are we with an off-season of :
Ibaka replacing Amir
Fultz replacing Green
Yabusele replacing Jerebko
Zizic replacing Zeller
Nader replacing Young?
Second round pick competing with Mickey?

I think it is very do-able if Danny thinks we are that close.

Kdp,

I don't know about Ibaka, especially if Lowry leaves. They gave up Terrence Ross for him, I expect them to pull out all the stops to keep him. Who else would they spend the money on? If they lose Lowry and Ibaka they can forget about free agents.

How about Jerebko competing with Mickey instead of with Yabusele?

Is 6'4" PG/SG Fultz able to replace 6'8" SF Green?

And what will Danny do with Demetrius Jackson?

bob

.

by **RosalieTCeltics** Wed May 31, 2017 5:26 pm

all interesting questions. I like Jerebko, but I think he will fly away this summer, too much inconsistent playing time for him to want to stay. Mickey has had all the time to push someone out of the way. He is a good kid that peaked and not much has come from him lately. Also Jackson was an Ainge favorite, but how long can you hold on to someone before you cut him free and see if he can find another job.

And I will ask the question what about NADER, he won player of the year in the D league. What will they do about him?

We will drive ourselves crazy with all these questions.

by **dboss** Wed May 31, 2017 5:31 pm

bobheckler wrote:
kdp59 wrote:I agree that Ibaka will be in the $15-18M range.

that is much easier for Danny to get to than a near max deal for sure.

we can renounce Amir and Jerebko as well as not picking up Zellers second year getting us the cap space needed above.

we then still have the rights to match Kelly and as well as the rights to Mickey (non guaranteed) and Green, Young to resign if we choose.

it's actually a much easier off season to make happen, though with Fultz here we will have a glut at guard ( for one year at least).

how much better are we with an off-season of :
Ibaka replacing Amir
Fultz replacing Green
Yabusele replacing Jerebko
Zizic replacing Zeller
Nader replacing Young?
Second round pick competing with Mickey?

I think it is very do-able if Danny thinks we are that close.

Kdp,

I don't know about Ibaka, especially if Lowry leaves. They gave up Terrence Ross for him, I expect them to pull out all the stops to keep him. Who else would they spend the money on? If they lose Lowry and Ibaka they can forget about free agents.

How about Jerebko competing with Mickey instead of with Yabusele?

Is 6'4" PG/SG Fultz able to replace 6'8" SF Green?

And what will Danny do with Demetrius Jackson?

bob

.

I read where the Raptors may have problens signing both of them.

Dboss

by **dboss** Wed May 31, 2017 5:34 pm

RosalieTCeltics wrote:all interesting questions. I like Jerebko, but I think he will fly away this summer, too much inconsistent playing time for him to want to stay. Mickey has had all the time to push someone out of the way. He is a good kid that peaked and not much has come from him lately. Also Jackson was an Ainge favorite, but how long can you hold on to someone before you cut him free and see if he can find another job.

And I will ask the question what about NADER, he won player of the year in the D league. What will they do about him?

We will drive ourselves crazy with all these questions.

I forgot about Nadir. Soooooo many options.

Dboss

by **kdp59** Wed May 31, 2017 6:39 pm

bobheckler wrote:
kdp59 wrote:I agree that Ibaka will be in the $15-18M range.

that is much easier for Danny to get to than a near max deal for sure.

we can renounce Amir and Jerebko as well as not picking up Zellers second year getting us the cap space needed above.

we then still have the rights to match Kelly and as well as the rights to Mickey (non guaranteed) and Green, Young to resign if we choose.

it's actually a much easier off season to make happen, though with Fultz here we will have a glut at guard ( for one year at least).

how much better are we with an off-season of :
Ibaka replacing Amir
Fultz replacing Green
Yabusele replacing Jerebko
Zizic replacing Zeller
Nader replacing Young?
Second round pick competing with Mickey?

I think it is very do-able if Danny thinks we are that close.

Kdp,

I don't know about Ibaka, especially if Lowry leaves. They gave up Terrence Ross for him, I expect them to pull out all the stops to keep him. Who else would they spend the money on? If they lose Lowry and Ibaka they can forget about free agents.

How about Jerebko competing with Mickey instead of with Yabusele?

Is 6'4" PG/SG Fultz able to replace 6'8" SF Green?

And what will Danny do with Demetrius Jackson?

bob

.

to free up enough cap space for the likely $18M cost for Ibaka, we'd have to renounce Jerebko and Amir as well as not pick up Zellers $8M non guaranteed year. That frees up over $33M in cap space and holds. giving us enough space for the top pick and putting us about $20M below the cap. so to get there Jerebko cannot be resigned here.

I figure Green was our BU shooting guard in that comparison , to be honest.

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