Cavs shooting for moon as extra trade compensation from Celtics

Cavs shooting for moon as extra trade compensation from Celtics

WEEI

Ty Anderson

The Cavaliers are apparently aiming high in their request for additional compensation from the Celtics in the Kyrie Irving to Boston trade, according to the latest report for ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski.

In a four-for-one trade that's been delayed due to the Cavs' concerns with Isaiah Thomas' hip following his physical in Cleveland late last week, the Cavaliers have set their sights on one of the C's two recent top picks, be it 2016 No. 3 overall pick Jaylen Brown or 2017 No. 3 overall pick Jayson Tatum, as the final piece to complete what would then become a 5-for-1 swap.

“Cleveland is going to try to inquire about a couple of the Celtics’ young players -- Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum, who they tried to get in the original trade -- [but] that is very unlikely,” Wojnarowski said in a Sportscenter spot on Sunday night. “But Boston still has a war chest of future first-round picks of their own, and some picks they control from other teams, and Cleveland is going to try to get one more of those to finalize this deal."

Brown and Tatum are obviously not going anywhere, and Celtics president Danny Ainge will probably hang up the phone the second Cavs GM Koby Altman asks for one of them.

As Wojnarowski noted, the Celtics do still possess a ton of draft picks, even after moving the 2018 Brooklyn pick in this deal.

The Celtics own their own 2018 first-round pick, and potentially the Lakers' first-round pick should that pick fall between No. 2 and No. 5 overall. In 2019, they own their own first-round pick, a Grizzlies first-round pick should it fall out of the top eight, a Clippers first-round pick if it falls out of the top 14, and the 76ers/Kings first-round pick (both top-1 protected) if the Lakers pick does not convert in 2018. The Celtics also own the Clippers' and Grizzlies' first-round picks in 2020 should they not be conveyed in 2019, in addition to owning their natural first-round selection.

"Boston is resisting, and will initially at least, resist this idea,” Wojnarowski acknowledged. “Boston believes that it was completely transparent with Cleveland about where Thomas was physically, his rehab. Cleveland’s version of this is that they didn’t realize how long Thomas could potentially be out this season."

According to The Verical's Chris Mannix, the Celtics have 'drawn a line in the sand' and will offer no more than a second-round pick to the Cavaliers to complete the deal.

The Celtics and Cavaliers have at least three days to work this trade -- which currently features the C's sending Thomas, Jae Crowder, Ante Zizic, and the Brooklyn first-round pick in 2018 in exchange for the 25-year-old Irving -- out, but can extend the deadline should they mutally agree on an extension.

112288

Enough.

The Cavs are just trying a negotiating tactic, but why even bother.  Give them nothing.

Void the trade.  IT was obviously in even worse shape than we thought. Keep Larkin on the roster for depth and send IT for the surgery he needed. Maybe he can return afterward and eventually be signed for less than that Brinks truck load he had in mind.  Keep Crowder and the draft pick.  The pick could one day be the most valuable part from the deal anyway. Do whatever with Zizic; maybe Portland if that can be arranged or back overseas.

We probably wouldn't be any worse off in the long run.

Just how much the Celts are probably willing to give up is related directly to just how much time THEY would expect to have Thomas on the court next year should the deal be negated - if the Celtics are considering the possibility that he could miss the entire season - then there goes 45 points out of last years back court production ( Thomas and Bradley ) - Of course that is a worst case scenario but never the less a situation that could force Danny into paying a very high price. Time will tell how much of a ransom Irving will command.

swish

HERE IS MY TAKE.

CLEVELAND TOLD THE DOCTOR TO RAISE QUESTIONS ABOUT IT SO AS TO MUDDY THE WATER AND TRY TO SWEETEN THE DEAL!

MY FRIENDS, DON'T PUT IT PAST THE OWNER OF CLEVELAND TO TRY SOMETHING LIKE THAT!  IF YOU THINK NOT, YOU ARE LIVING IN A FANTASY WORLD!

DANNY SHOULD CALL HIS BLUFF AND WALK AWAY!
112288

^^^Totally agree.

Cavs window is closing. Lebron is leaving. Kyrie wants out. If they dont get the Brooklyn pick, they are screwed and will be left this time next year with Kevin Love and JR Smith as their best players. LOL.

NYCelt wrote:Enough.

The Cavs are just trying a negotiating tactic, but why even bother.  Give them nothing.

Void the trade.  IT was obviously in even worse shape than we thought. Keep Larkin on the roster for depth and send IT for the surgery he needed. Maybe he can return afterward and eventually be signed for less than that Brinks truck load he had in mind.  Keep Crowder and the draft pick.  The pick could one day be the most valuable part from the deal anyway. Do whatever with Zizic; maybe Portland if that can be arranged or back overseas.

We probably wouldn't be any worse off in the long run.

I don't know if we can void the trade, but that would be my choice. Crowder always was going to be included in a trade, it was just a matter of time IMO.

We would still have 16 guaranteed contracts, so some kind of 2-1 or 3-1 trade that would include Crowder could solve that.

gyso

112288 wrote:HERE IS MY TAKE.

CLEVELAND TOLD THE DOCTOR TO RAISE QUESTIONS ABOUT IT SO AS TO MUDDY THE WATER AND TRY TO SWEETEN THE DEAL!

MY FRIENDS, DON'T PUT IT PAST THE OWNER OF CLEVELAND TO TRY SOMETHING LIKE THAT!  IF YOU THINK NOT, YOU ARE LIVING IN A FANTASY WORLD!

DANNY SHOULD CALL HIS BLUFF AND WALK AWAY!
112288

100% agree. It's obvious to me they don't want IT. They signed Rose. Once they made the trade, they got cold feet. Not an auspicious first trade for the new GM, and I hope the league takes notice. They KNEW. End of story.
Hang up the phone, Danny. Give them squat. If they void the trade, THEY look like fools, as this was a very fair package for Irving. Butler and George were traded for far less!!

Why is it by default that Cleveland is lying?
For a couple of months Boston has been very quiet about IT's injury.
If Cleveland feels like IT is hurt worse than they were lead to believe, they can ask for more compensation or void the trade.
Boston and other teams would/should do the same thing if they were the ones receiving an injured player.
The odds of this trade going through with the original players seems low in my opinion.

I don't think anyone is lying here. BOS said they provided all the info they had. Believe that or don't.
CLE is saying BOS didn't tell them the extent of the injury. Believe that, or don't.

CLE does have a right to ask for further compensation. But they shouldn't get it if they knew. It's who you believe, or, as I'm saying, who you really wanted in the trade in the first place. If they didn't want IT, they should have said so......

This is pretty simple.
Cleveland wanted IT.
He was a star in the league last year.
They don't want him being more injured than they expected, which seems to be the case as per their doctors or if he's going to be out much longer than they were told by Boston.
This seems to be the issue on why there is a hold up with the trade.

Gee, when the trade first went thru Cleveland was declared the huge winner because they had gotten the Nets pick from Danny. Then they sat back waited for IT to show up. Then this all hit the fan. In the meantime, before any trade was announced, they were given all the medical info, MRI's, their doctor talked to the Boston doctor, and the announcement was made. Then it all hit the fan. Somewhere, somehow, someone is looking at all of the Celtic assets and thinking hmmmm.....we are leary of IT's hip, lets go for broke and hold up the trade.

Steven A Smith is barking on television today that the deal will get done if the Celtics include Smart and another first round pick!!! What do people think, the Celtics are just giving these assets away for free. This is the stupidest one yet. Although wanting Tatum and Brown is crazier than crazy.

TJ you indicate that we are blaming Cleveland of lying....what makes you say that? Funny, but if this were the Lakers I don't think you would be too happy with this foolishness. When you make a deal in good faith you make a deal. This smells like a fishing expeditionI, "lets's see what we can get from them". I ONLY HAVE ONE LAST THING TO SAY, PLEASE, DANNY, DO NOT
RUIN WHAT YOU HAVE BEGUN TO BUILD. Let them rebuild their own team, don't stock them with our prized possessions

Gee, when the trade first went thru Cleveland was declared the huge winner because they had gotten the Nets pick from Danny. Then they sat back waited for IT to show up. Then this all hit the fan. In the meantime, before any trade was announced, they were given all the medical info, MRI's, their doctor talked to the Boston doctor, and the announcement was made. Then it all hit the fan. Somewhere, somehow, someone is looking at all of the Celtic assets and thinking hmmmm.....we are leary of IT's hip, lets go for broke and hold up the trade.

Steven A Smith is barking on television today that the deal will get done if the Celtics include Smart and another first round pick!!! What do people think, the Celtics are just giving these assets away for free. This is the stupidest one yet. Although wanting Tatum and Brown is crazier than crazy.

TJ you indicate that we are blaming Cleveland of lying....what makes you say that? Funny, but if this were the Lakers I don't think you would be too happy with this foolishness. When you make a deal in good faith you make a deal. This smells like a fishing expeditionI, "lets's see what we can get from them". I ONLY HAVE ONE LAST THING TO SAY, PLEASE, DANNY, DO NOT
RUIN WHAT YOU HAVE BEGUN TO BUILD. Let them rebuild their own team, don't stock them with our prized possessions

RosalieTCeltics wrote:Gee, when the trade first went thru Cleveland was declared the huge winner because they had gotten the Nets pick from Danny.  Then they sat back waited for IT to show up.  Then this all hit the fan.  In the meantime, before any trade was announced, they were given all the medical info, MRI's, their doctor talked to the Boston doctor, and the announcement was made. Then it all hit the fan.  Somewhere, somehow, someone is looking at all of the Celtic assets and thinking hmmmm.....we are leary of IT's hip, lets go for broke and hold up the trade.

Steven A Smith is barking on television today that the deal will get done if the Celtics include Smart and another first round pick!!! What do people think, the Celtics are just giving these assets away for free. This is the stupidest one yet.  Although wanting Tatum and Brown is crazier than crazy.

TJ  you indicate that we are blaming Cleveland of lying....what makes you say that? Funny, but if this were the Lakers I don't think you would be too happy with this foolishness.  When you make a deal in good faith you make a deal.  This smells like a fishing expeditionI, "lets's see what we can get from them". I ONLY HAVE ONE LAST THING TO SAY, PLEASE, DANNY, DO NOT
RUIN WHAT YOU HAVE BEGUN TO BUILD. Let them rebuild their own team, don't stock them with our prized possessions

Rosalie,

Steven A(sshole) Smith is right.  The deal will get done if the Celtics include Smart and another first round pick.  It would get done even faster if the Celtics include Smart, another first round pick and Al Horford.  And, if you want to see what "blindingly fast" looks like, picture all this and Gordon Hayward too.  The only 2 sports "pundits" who are dumber than Smith is his one-time running mate Skip Clueless and, sadly, our very own Gary Tanguay (although why we should lay claim to him I don't know since he obviously isn't one of us.  How empty-headed and vapid is he?  He has a Wikipedia page with nothing in it.  I'm serious, google it).




bob


.

RosalieTCeltics wrote:Gee, when the trade first went thru Cleveland was declared the huge winner because they had gotten the Nets pick from Danny.  Then they sat back waited for IT to show up.  Then this all hit the fan.  In the meantime, before any trade was announced, they were given all the medical info, MRI's, their doctor talked to the Boston doctor, and the announcement was made. Then it all hit the fan.  Somewhere, somehow, someone is looking at all of the Celtic assets and thinking hmmmm.....we are leary of IT's hip, lets go for broke and hold up the trade.

Steven A Smith is barking on television today that the deal will get done if the Celtics include Smart and another first round pick!!! What do people think, the Celtics are just giving these assets away for free. This is the stupidest one yet.  Although wanting Tatum and Brown is crazier than crazy.

TJ  you indicate that we are blaming Cleveland of lying....what makes you say that? Funny, but if this were the Lakers I don't think you would be too happy with this foolishness.  When you make a deal in good faith you make a deal.  This smells like a fishing expeditionI, "lets's see what we can get from them". I ONLY HAVE ONE LAST THING TO SAY, PLEASE, DANNY, DO NOT
RUIN WHAT YOU HAVE BEGUN TO BUILD. Let them rebuild their own team, don't stock them with our prized possessions

Rosalie,

A good faith deal is contingent upon each player passing a physical.
IT did not pass Cleveland's physical.
They aren't going to just take Danny's word for it concerning IT's injury.

There a lot of conspiracy theory chatter going on here.
If Boston doesn't want to give up anything more, they should tell Cleveland NO, we aren't changing the terms of the trade.
Then the ball is fully in Cleveland's court.

If this trade does not go through, what does Boston do for a pg next season?
I'm assuming they can start Rozier and hope IT comes back strong for the playoffs.

If the Lakers were trading for IT, I would fully expect that they would significantly reduce IT's trade value if his physical was worse than they expected.

Steve Kyler‏Verified account @stevekylerNBA · 37m37 minutes ago  

Same source said Cavs medical staff not as certain Thomas won't require surgery. Hence Cavs desire for more compensation.


Steve Kyler‏Verified account @stevekylerNBA · 38m38 minutes ago  

While Cavs/Celtics likely consumate their trade - Source said concern from Cavs side seems to be Boston's diagnosis of Thomas' hip

My girlfriend had a similar dx 18 months ago. The cartilage in her hip socket was very thin and abrated but not exactly a torn labrum. The MD suggested a hip replacement. I directed her to get Platelet Rich Plasma (PRP) injected into her hip socket. In three months much of the cartilage, presumably, had regrown, because her hip felt as good as new, and she has been exercising feverishly without pain or limitation ever since. IT could get both PRP and hip surgery and be in fine shape by March....unless he has some bone necrosis, which I highly doubt. The Cavs are milking this hip issue for another pick. Enough already. I look forward to this being resolved by Thursday. One way or another we will have an All Star pg by playoff time named either Irving or Thomas.

To all who insists on harping on the "if the deal doesn't go through" line. That is no big loss to Boston. Deal or no deal IT is injured and will most likely miss time. The Celtics will do what every other team in every other sport has done, find a replacement and play! As I said, and as we all know, we are NOT winning the title this year. That's with or without IT. This in not the 80's Celts or Lakers facing a season with Bird, McHale, Kareem or Magic on the shelf with no clear (to us) timetable to return. This is a team that with a healthy IT is still most likely the 2nd best in the conference and nowhere near the defending champs and with IT missing some or all of the season they will be at worst 4th best in conference and not NBA champs. I think that even before the trade Danny had his doubts about maxing IT longterm. He, like many others know that you are not winning a title in today's NBA with a 5'9" 30 something as your best player. I don't get the doom and gloom or gnashing of teeth of either position about the trade. As I posted twice in the "If the Cavs rescind..." thread, this trade not going through is not even close to being as tragic to Boston as many of the talking (empty) heads would like to make it out to be. But hey, they have to fill (foul) the air talking about something I suppose.

This is what happened to Drew Bledsoe years ago his was much worse. That was when Tom Brady was made the starting quarterback. Bledsoe was lucky enough to come back but only played a short time after he was traded to Buffalo. It was considered quite serious back then

Willjr, i concur.

As far as the "point" of Boston being less than forthcoming about the injury, I don't by it. 1. We live in an information and technology filled world. Does anyone really believe you could pull the wool over the eyes in a transaction of this type. Even if you want to take the position that Bos withheld info, Cle would still perform an exam. That's not distrust, that's not even due diligence, that's SOP. What sense does it make for Bos to "hide" info that obviously would be discovered by Cle's medical staff. This is 2017 people, not 1917, old Doc Richards from one town over won't be making his rounds in his Model T to treat grandma's case of the croup and Isaiah's hip bursitis. And 2, why would Danny, or any other GM, risk his reputation as well as possible league sanctions in doing something as underhanded and unethical as what has been implied. That would destroy both his reputation and credibility league wide. To me the facts are clear, the Cavs are using the pretense of innuendo to extract more. That may be gamesmanship bordering on shady, but its not unethical, which is what some are trying to make the case of on Boston's part, and for reasons listed above, I don't buy.

Ditto.

The league has some serious repercussions for withholding medical info in a trade. Danny and company gave the Cavs everything they had, if not the league would have come down on them like a ton of bricks.

Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to think again.

The Cavs doctors likely came to a different diagnosis and thought that just rest was not the answer.

Isaiah should have just consulted Worcester after the swelling went down and we wouldn't have to discuss trading for a flat-earther in the first place.

gyso

Other than TJ (no offense) I am hearing an extremely strong consensus.

dboss

worcester wrote:My girlfriend had a similar dx 18 months ago. The cartilage in her hip socket was very thin and abrated but not exactly a torn labrum. The MD suggested a hip replacement. I directed her to get Platelet Rich Plasma (PRP) injected into her hip socket. In three months much of the cartilage, presumably, had regrown, because her hip felt as good as new, and she has been exercising feverishly without pain or limitation ever since. IT could get both PRP and hip surgery and be in fine shape by March....unless he has some bone necrosis, which I highly doubt. The Cavs are milking this hip issue for another pick. Enough already. I look forward to this being resolved by Thursday. One way or another we will have an All Star pg by playoff time named either Irving or Thomas.

W-

Good point.

As I recall, you've been saying surgery is normally the route on these things, so no surprise to me where this has gone.

Regards

Yes NY Celt. This is like Shakespeare's quote:"Sound and fury signifying nothing..."