Re: POST GAME PHILLY - AWAY

by **NYCelt** Sat Jan 23, 2021 12:39 pm

cowens/oldschool wrote:
NYCelt wrote:
BingBang! wrote:Ben Simmons took over the game is n crunch time. He reminds me of Rondo — but bigger and not quite the assist machine but 8 per game is still pretty good.

I agree.

Never could understand the criticism over his lack of shooting beyond the arc. It is simply not needed and a non-factor when you have other shooters. One of the 20 or so best players in the NBA right now.

Simmons can’t even hold the jock strap of either Brown or Tatum.

He doesn’t need to. He’s just an outstanding player and a key to Philly’s emergence as a top Eastern Conference team.

All three are a decent fit for top 20 IMO. Tatum may even be pushing into the top dozen and my bet is he will rise farther in coming seasons.

by **cowens/oldschool** Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:51 pm

NYCelt wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:
NYCelt wrote:
BingBang! wrote:Ben Simmons took over the game is n crunch time. He reminds me of Rondo — but bigger and not quite the assist machine but 8 per game is still pretty good.

I agree.

Never could understand the criticism over his lack of shooting beyond the arc. It is simply not needed and a non-factor when you have other shooters. One of the 20 or so best players in the NBA right now.

Simmons can’t even hold the jock strap of either Brown or Tatum.

He doesn’t need to. He’s just an outstanding player and a key to Philly’s emergence as a top Eastern Conference team.

All three are a decent fit for top 20 IMO. Tatum may even be pushing into the top dozen and my bet is he will rise farther in coming seasons.

I have 2 J’s in top 10 right now

by **cowens/oldschool** Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:11 pm

Bob exactly I’m thrilled that 2 J’s are still only 22 and 24, they are the franchise and they are getting better and better by leaps and bounds.

by **Shamrock1000** Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:30 pm

bobheckler wrote: The glimmer here is that Jaylen has been allowing his running mate Tatum assume the mantle of on-court leadership for this team, deferring to his shot making, but with Tatum's absence he has proven beyond any doubt that he is a franchise player too. Think about that. We have not one but TWO, YOUNG (24 and 22) franchise players under long-term contracts who are besties on and off the court. 112288 says he's struggling to love this team. The Js are this team. How can you not love the J's?

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Couldn't agree more. Last year we had problems with the Sixers in the regular season but dominated them in the playoffs. We will dominate them again if we see them in the playoffs this year - Sorry Sixers fans, but Embiid and Simmons are not made for the spotlight....

As an aside, Jaylen should be team captain - he has the character, he works hard, and he may be the best player on the team.

by **Ktron** Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:36 pm

kdp59 wrote:
RosalieTCeltics wrote:he is not quick enough to handle Embid, he would have eaten him alive. Let's get serious here, there are certain teams he will not be useful against.

I am not on the kick brad to the curve bandwagon, but that is me. I know there are alot of you who will disagree me. I think you would regret it. see you in a few games, I am taking some time off from forum

not me, I like Stevens. I wish he had a vet NBA head coach on his bench myself is all.

I'm not saying Tacko would shut down Embiid or anything, I was just pointing out that if we want size , we have that already on our bench. I'm not he'd have the strength against Embiid also, but he would make him think for the few minutes it took him to get 6 fouls...LOL.

I may have been a little hard on Brad during the Philly game but I still don’t understand some of his moves. Still think he is a very good coach, better than 80% of the NBA coaches but I cant help but wonder about some of his rotations and I think we need our stars playing more minutes. I’m no coach but I think even dead Ray Charles blindfolded can see that.

by **Ktron** Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:43 pm

bobheckler wrote:I'm still not panicking in part because I know there's still plenty of time left for me to do so. Rushing into panicking is like washing down barbiturates with whiskey. Sam used to preach perspective and patience ("Ask me in April"). Well, let's apply some perspective first and then see if patience is warranted.

Two of the bemoanings on the Game On! thread last night was that Brad had Jaylen on the bench for SOOOO long, and "why didn't Brad have any shooters on the floor?"

Jaylen played 36 minutes. That's, on average, 9 minutes out of every 12 minute quarter. I don't know how you can say he didn't play Jaylen enough when he played him 36 minutes. Brown played 17 minutes in the first half and 19 minutes in the 2nd half. The problem was that the team wasn't doing well when he sat, for the few minutes he did sit, but that's a team problem. This isn't a 7th game, do-or-die/win-or-go-home game and basketball is a team sport.

And as far as "shooters" go, what shooters? Tatum was out. Kemba is on a 25-28 minute restriction. He actually played 29, so Brad let that shooter go over by a bit. Pritchard went down with a sprained knee and Jeff Teague is completely flip* useless unless he's starting. Our lottery pick, allegedly the best shooter in the draft, can't get off the bench, was out last night with a back spasm and even when he was given minutes hasn't been hitting. Understanding that a Jaylen Brown with no legs in crunch time is a death wish, which shooter should Brad have put in?

This is the 2nd straight game where Tristan Thompson sucked. Kelly Olynyk defended Embiid as well as he did. Think about that (especially you, Cowens!). Appearances aside, Thompson did no better than Kelly O, and Thompson's built for it whereas Kelly wasn't. Theis with a more "back-to-earth" game with 7 points, 2 rebounds and a block. This was the first post-COVID game for The Time Lord and he looked like it. Dwight Howard completely schooled and dominated him with 12 rebounds, 4 of them offensive, in just 18 minutes. Our bigs had problems with their bigs. One of them makes sense, Embiid is elite, but D12?

I am and have always been, by nature, a glass-half-full type of guy. That doesn't mean I don't see flaws, you can't improve if you don't apply effort to improve your weaknesses, but I naturally look for Sam's Glimmers. I look for them because they make me feel better, and I like feeling better, as I analyze our weaknesses but also because glimmers give indications of trend. Well, we don't have a Glimmer here, we have an exploding supernova named Jaylen Brown. Tatum's unavailability, and Kemba's phased-in return, placed the full weight of leadership and performance on Jaylen's shoulders. At this point I think anybody who thinks Jaylen Brown isn't an All-Star needs to put down the crack pipe and slowly back away. He's averaging 26.9ppg this season, which puts him into a tie for 9th place in the league with Jayson Tatum, who is an All-Star already. He's shooting 52.4%. A quick look at the NBA leader board shows him to be one of the top wing fg% shooters. His frito percentage, long one of his weaknesses, is up to a career high 76.5%, still not great but not a liability either and, if we know one thing about Jaylen Brown it's that he's a worker. I'd put money his ft% is over 80% next season. And he's doing all this while still only being 38th in the league in mpg. Only Embiid and Giannis are scoring more ppg than Jaylen in fewer minutes. He was unstoppable last night, not just with his career-high 42 points on 16-28, 5-8 from 3, but he also had 9 rebounds. The glimmer here is that Jaylen has been allowing his running mate Tatum assume the mantle of on-court leadership for this team, deferring to his shot making, but with Tatum's absence he has proven beyond any doubt that he is a franchise player too. Think about that. We have not one but TWO, YOUNG (24 and 22) franchise players under long-term contracts who are besties on and off the court. 112288 says he's struggling to love this team. The Js are this team. How can you not love the J's?

Sean Grande @SeanGrandePBP
about 10 hours ago
Career-high 16 made shots for JB tonight... NBA LEADERS - FG/48 Minutes 1. Beal, Was 16.2 2. Antetokounmpo, Mil 15.0 3. Irving, Bkn 14.8 4. BROWN, BOS 14.1 5. TATUM, BOS 14.0 6. Vucevic, Orl 13.9
Adam Himmelsbach @AdamHimmelsbach
yesterday

Doc on Jaylen: "Obviously, you give him a three, he’s a deadeye, knockdown three-point shooter. I don’t think he was that when he first came in the league, and now he is. But his biggest improvement and where they really developed, off the dribble he’s really tough."

Jay King @ByJayKing
yesterday
Jaylen Brown is putting a lot on himself to be better defensively: “We’ve just gotta get that tenacity back. ... We’ve gotta have that villainous mentality on defense. We’ve gotta follow Smart’s lead.”

Jared Weiss @JaredWeissNBA
yesterday
Jaylen Brown on defensive breakdown in crunch time: "A lot of that is on me. I'm one of the defensive captains on this team and I've gotta be better. We've got to be better."

Brian Robb @BrianTRobb
yesterday
Kemba Walker on Jaylen Brown's comments about doing more: "Jaylen's playing, he's hooping on both ends. I know he's saying he can do a little bit more but there's only so much he can do, ya know."

One of the luxuries Doc had last night was being able to put 6'10"+ Ben Simmons on Jaylen and 6'5"/6'11" wingspan Matisse Thybulle on 6'0" Kemba Walker. What's he gonna do when Tatum comes back? This is one reason why I'm not panicking. We haven't played them at full strength yet.

Grant Williams has not had a good week. That's as safe a statement as I have made in recent memory.

Semi with a meh game, but a brilliant defensive stand in one possession. He was guarding, I think Danny Green, at the arc and when Green went up for the shot he put both his arms behind his back. There was no way, NO way, a ref could blow a whistle. Chest-to-chest, arms fully behind his back. That's both smart play as well as excellent coaching.

They had a 73 point 2nd half, 41 in the 3rd quarter. That has nothing to do with Jaylen on the bench for 3 minutes or lack of shooters. That's poor defense. They shot 53.3% in the 2nd half, 54% in the 3rd. We shot 45.4% in the 2nd half. That's not bad shooting for us. How about them? They were 3-10 from 3 in the 1st half. They ended up 12-28. That's a 9-18 2nd half from 3. Also, Embiid was 10-10 from the line.

Brian Robb @BrianTRobb
yesterday
Celtics currently rank 21st in defensive efficiency (110.8 points allowed per 100 possessions). They haven't finished lower than 18th in a season during the Brad Stevens era.

Jay King @ByJayKing
yesterday
Brad Stevens said the Celtics aren’t good enough to win while giving up 122 points. He said until they reach the point where they’re committed enough defensively he doesn’t see them being sustainably competitive. About as upset as he’s been after a game this season.

Jay King @ByJayKing
yesterday
Brad Stevens said he assumes Payton Pritchard is out for the next couple of days, but doesn’t know beyond that. Tests expected to come tomorrow so the Celtics should know more after that.

Jared Weiss @JaredWeissNBA
yesterday
Payton Pritchard standing by the tunnel without crutches, which is a good sign that his knee sprain is just a knee sprain.

If that's all it is then a couple of weeks is reasonable. Next man up, Tremont Waters. Here's your chance, littlest guy, I have limited confidence in Teague. I've said I'm not panicking, and I'm not, but I'd be open to tweaking. Bye bye Teague, hello IT. Teague is as consistent as Jeff Green and, boy, if that doesn't make your stomach spin like a gyroscope nothing will.

https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=401267393

Bob

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Bob, its not just about counting the minutes. It’s when his stars are sitting and for how long. 9 minutes for every quarter does not mean that Jaylen was on the floor enough. I’m talking strategy here and he may could have played less than 36 if the timing fits but the timing sucks and he sat too long during that stretch in the 3rd and 4th. Not only that but Smart was on the bench during a great part of that time during the 3rd and 4th. Kemba, was the only scorer out there. I don’t know what you mean by what other score should have been out there. Again Marcus was sitting right along side of him and he was in double figures. So this is not the 7th game or do or die, No, but why play the frigging game if you’re not playing to win. The strategy sucked. You actually think we could’ve won with both of our best defensive players and scorers (at least last night) sitting for the stretch that they sat? You just wrote almost 2 paragraphs on how Great Brown is and I certainly agree and in this case we could’ve used him for 40 minutes if you just want to play the numbers game. We needed him because Tatum was not there, Teague sucks, Pritchard was hurt and we had others not dressed.. Makes no sense. Again, I don’t think its about the number as much as when. We can just agree to disagree.

by **dboss** Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:46 pm

The Sixers are a very good team with a dominant big man in the middle. Whenever we play them that will be a factor that goes against us.

Similar to the first game, a play here or there and a winnable game is lost. That is how it goes sometimes. You remember some of these plays? A missed 3 pointer by Green (1-5) A missed layup by Tristian Thompson (2-6) An ill advised pass up top by Smart to Jaylen that led to a steal and a bucket at the other end.

The Sixers have outstanding length. Without Jayson Tatum, we had even less length to defend and one less top scorer on the team. We should keep that in mind before over analyzing this loss.

I am not remotely concerned about this team.

I do agree with some comments as related to our center situation and I am disappointed that TT is not even close to being a good player. I overestimated his impact. But even so, a healthy Celtics teams with Jayson and Jaylen keeps us in the conversation. There is really just one outstanding Big center in the East. The Sixers will not stop us from getting to where we have to go.

The Celtics remain in an excellent position to make some noise in the East.

Kemba Walker looked healthy. He is again as quick as a cat. The J's are averaging 26.9 PPG. That ranks them at #8 and #9 in scoring in the NBA. That's big time scoring in a league with so many truly great offensive players.

The rotations are about to change. Some guys who should not be starting (i. e. Grant Williams) will return to the bench where they belong. The Celtics will be A OK provided they go with their bread and butter (JT and JB) and make certain that they are the ones who have the highest usage rate. This means that Kemba Walker, who happens to be an inefficient offensive player, should be our 3rd option moving forward.

If there was one upgrade to the team that did not involve a 5 it should be for a long athletic 4 to be the primary BU for Tatum.

We are stuck with 4 backup quality centers. Bringing in a starting quality center now means you are starting from scratch on building chemistry. And I do not see who would be a good fit and what it would take to make that happen. In my mind the Celtics have 3 players that are keepers. In any event our multi-headed center rotation is sufficient against most teams, just NOT great.

by **worcester** Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:16 pm

Yes Bob. No need to panic, especiallywith JT out and JB flourishing. I too would give IT a shot if Jeff Teague continues to flounder. Speaking of which, I'll be going diving and fishing tomorrow

by **dbrown4** Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:52 pm

worcester summed it up best. We are a lot better team with JaT. Period. End of discussion. If we had JaT for both of those games, we'd have won going away. Competitive but not even close.

We are going to lose without at full complement of scorers in the line up. Pretty much EVERY SINGLE TIME. We will not make the playoffs if we continue to start 5 guys, three of which who score 20 points plus per game and the other two averaging below double digits in points BETWEEN THEM. Don't expect to win ANY GAMES of significant importance until that starting line up is solved.

What I don't get is with those three guys, and typically a fourth off the bench, who are scoring/playing solidly out of their brains, why the other two aren't so wide open ANYWHERE on the court (but preferably near the basket since they are "Bigs"), can handle a wide open entry pass and aren't racking up And 1's til the cows come home!!!???

We played PHI very well in both games. Yes a couple of bonehead moves and turnovers by everyone including JB and MS, but nonetheless, we were in both games deep into the fourth quarter....without JaT. Again, add JaT and it's all over. Embiid can score 100. It won't matter.

We have learned the importance of Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum in this COVID fiasco. We're not going to win without Jason Tatum or Jaylen Brown. Not against elite competition.

Jaylen is getting a chance to spread his wings and things are looking REALLY good there. Ridiculously good there. Kemba is on fire and playing like a teenager and there is no end in sight. MS is MS. You're getting EVERYTHING you are paying for and then some with MS.

Again had to roll my eyes again at starting lineup, but it's only for 6 minutes. I'll have to live with it.

db

by **worcester** Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:10 pm

Semi at the 4 helps much.more than GWill in the lineup or TT and DT out there together.

by **dbrown4** Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:18 am

JeT is only going to flourish when he starts. I def wouldn't mind seeing IT back. That would be a sight for sore eyes. I'm good with Semi starting if he has to. But the days of seeing 3 starters over 20 points each and the other two less than 5 points each are over if winning games is the goal. We're 1-4 in the division and our point differential just went negative. Good luck with that.

db

by **bobheckler** Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:48 am

worcester wrote:Yes Bob. No need to panic, especiallywith JT out and JB flourishing. I too would give IT a shot if Jeff Teague continues to flounder. Speaking of which, I'll be going diving and fishing tomorrow

worcester,

That's just a fluke.

Bob

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