Goodman: Brad Stevens' 5-year extension doesn't mean Celtics might not explore change

112288 wrote:atcross,

It is a big stretch from college ball to the NBA!

Rick Patino found that out the hard way!  In Boston, where he amassed a 102–146 record from 1997 to 2001.

112288
112288

Pitino was easily my least favorite coach, not just of the Cs, but of any team. He was the antithesis of Stevens. Rick is all about Rick. And he came from coaching Kentucky, where the school name does half the recruiting job. Kentucky and Butler, and Pitino and Stevens, are not in the same universe. Stevens record is 318-246. And you never heard Stevens complain to the fans that they were expecting too much. Stevens and Pitino should never be located in the same conversation.

Btw, Stevens has actually now coached Boston longer than he coached at Butler.

Brad will probably stay, but we need another asstant coach who is D focused, a center, and some new faces on the training staff.

atcross wrote:

112288 wrote:AT CROSS

I just think Stevens has no clue on a total cohesive strategy both on offense and defense and how to get the best out of your star players.   This team needs a refresh both with talent and with team strategy which means a coaching change.   Otherwise you will still have the same old malaise.

112288

Stevens has no clue? Stevens took an unknown school to two NCAA finals, has gotten the Cs to the playoffs every year but his first, and to three ECFs. Suggesting he "has no clue" in developing a Off/Def strategy seems a bit of a stretch, don't you think?

As for those that think the team is tired of his voice, of his rotation players, only three (JT, JB, and MS), have been with him one complete season. (In two seasons Walker has only played 98 games total.) Stevens is known for keeping his players' attention by not haranguing them. And he has maybe the best reputation in the league for keeping players locked in to a team philosophy and team goals.  And he has a reputation in the league for resurrecting players that other coaches had abandoned (e.g., Turner, Thomas.) Anyone who is tired of hearing his voice probably needs to move on to another coach or two until they mature. Screaming at them and jumping up and down isn't going to change them. But the only people suggesting they have tuned him out are on the outside looking in.

I don’t know if they’re tuning him out or not. WE don’t know. I assume that its not the case given your analysis above but something is wrong from a coaching standpoint and if they players are not tuning him out but coming out like they’ve done on so many occasions like they’re either not ready, lack effort, disinterested or worn out mentally something is wrong and some of that is an extension of coaching. We cannot isolate players not playing up to their potential solely on that player, especially when there is more than one player on said team duplicating lack of effort, not playing up to potential, etc. So YES, some of these players need to be held accountable and yes, coaching does as well. The head coach said so himself. Why cant you?

atcross wrote:

112288 wrote:atcross,

It is a big stretch from college ball to the NBA!

Rick Patino found that out the hard way!  In Boston, where he amassed a 102–146 record from 1997 to 2001.

112288
112288

Pitino was easily my least favorite coach, not just of the Cs, but of any team. He was the antithesis of Stevens. Rick is all about Rick. And he came from coaching Kentucky, where the school name does half the recruiting job. Kentucky and Butler, and Pitino and Stevens, are not in the same universe. Stevens record is 318-246. And you never heard Stevens complain to the fans that they were expecting too much. Stevens and Pitino should never be located in the same conversation.

Btw, Stevens has actually now coached Boston longer than he coached at Butler.

I HATE Rick Pitino! But if you are implying that his coaching is not upper level (at the very least on the College level) is not in the ballpark of some of the best college coaches than your bias is blinding. I can’t stand the guy as a person, hated what he did with the Celtics but purchased his book because he knows a lot and I can learn from anyone. I understand, its obvious you love Brad Stevens and I do too but Cripes, can we at least try and practice some objectivity here?

worcester wrote:Brad will probably stay, but we need another asstant coach who is D focused, a center, and some new faces on the training staff.

Agree

worcester wrote:Brad will probably stay, but we need another assistant coach who is D focused, a center, and some new faces on the training staff.

I agree that upgrading the coaching staff particularly by adding a defensive minded coach would be great and I would not mind seeing Boston add a coach with NBA coaching experience.

That would be a good starting point but there remains many roster decisions that need to be made based on positional needs.

dboss wrote:

worcester wrote:Brad will probably stay, but we need another assistant coach who is D focused, a center, and some new faces on the training staff.

I agree that upgrading the coaching staff particularly by adding a defensive minded coach would be great and I would not mind seeing Boston add a coach with NBA coaching experience.  

That would be a good starting point but there remains many roster decisions that need to be made based on positional needs.

I believe this is a realistic possibility. An assistant head coach with NBA experience would make sense. Especially one known for defense, or perhaps developing bigs.

I think Brad gets another year, but that may be about it without a sharp uptick. Covid and injuries or no, the leash is only so long. If ownership or the front office feels a change is needed, the successor would already be on board. This is an often repeated way to put a coach and team on notice. It would fit here given the increasing number of what seem to be legitimate concerns about the team tending to be soft. If it comes to pass, it's a clear message without showing anyone the door too quickly. I'd rather see something like that than terminating the coach and a complete house cleaning with the roster.

NYCelt wrote:

dboss wrote:

worcester wrote:Brad will probably stay, but we need another assistant coach who is D focused, a center, and some new faces on the training staff.

I agree that upgrading the coaching staff particularly by adding a defensive minded coach would be great and I would not mind seeing Boston add a coach with NBA coaching experience.  

That would be a good starting point but there remains many roster decisions that need to be made based on positional needs.

I believe this is a realistic possibility. An assistant head coach with NBA experience would make sense. Especially one known for defense, or perhaps developing bigs.

I think Brad gets another year, but that may be about it without a sharp uptick. Covid and injuries or no, the leash is only so long. If ownership or the front office feels a change is needed, the successor would already be on board. This is an often repeated way to put a coach and team on notice. It would fit here given the increasing number of what seem to be legitimate concerns about the team tending to be soft. If it comes to pass, it's a clear message without showing anyone the door too quickly. I'd rather see something like that than terminating the coach and a complete house cleaning with the roster.

This all makes sense however we’re a year late, we should have signed Thibs last year, he would have made a huge difference. We would have beat Raptors in 5, he’s not calling no BS zone with .4 of a second left. We would have had enough energy to get past Miami possibly and been in Finals. I’m sure Thibs would have taken alot more away from Miami’s motion offense than clueless Brad. Look what Thibs did for Knicks defense and Randle in his first year under him, he did the same thing with Pierce and Ray Allen in 08, he got their defense up a notch. We have some talented defensive players, but this year it collapsed, mental mistakes galore like tonite so many open looks outside and inside....Thibs would have been our fixer.

Members have suggested a less toxic approach to fixing the Celtics problems then firing a coach.  The new suggestion is to hire a defensive assistant coach.  That seems to be a rational idea by preserving unity within the Celtic organization, and a boat load of cash on a buyout of Stevens contract if fired.

However, there are a lot of stars that need to alien in order for this new idea to succeed.

First and foremost, Brad has to accept the idea of adding a defensive coach.  Not just a guy working in the gym on defensive strategies, but actually taking control of the team on D while Brad sits the F down and shuts up!  Doc had this arrangement with Thibs.  But then again, it was also Doc's last chance of staying a head.

Second, the Big Three era offensive was not a laissez faire, do what you want style.  Even on offense, the Celtics were in position early to prevent a break away or a quick transition by the other team with fast breaks that normally is hard to defend and breaks down defenses.  Can this new D coach rein in Brad and his offensive strategy by positioning players while on offense while also preventing fast transitional offensives from their opponents?

Third, can Brad even accept a D coach in the mold of Thibs?  Or for that matter a D coach at all?

If all of you remember, Thibs was co-coach, not assistant coach. I remember that clearly because at the time I found it to be odd.  Can Stevens accept a co-coach?  

This now brings me to #4.

Fourth, If Brad is such a great coach and is not trying to just make the play-offs but actually take a run at the Title #18, why has he not hired a great defensive strategist in the past?  It is common sense that you would if all of you were the head coach.  Unless Brads style is a run and gun offensive style and to hell with defense...we will just out score our opponents.

Fifth, there is a lot to be said in Traditional Chinese Medicine about Yin and Yang play a role in healing and curing ailments . As defined, in Ancient Chinese philosophy, yin and yang is a concept of dualism, describing how seemingly opposite or contrary forces may actually be complementary, interconnected, and interdependent in the natural world, and how they may give rise to each other as they interrelate to one another.

The problem with the Celtics is their Yin and Yang or Offensive and Defense are out of Sync!  Let that settle in your heads for a minute while you also reflect on why Doc and Thibs were so successful together!  Brad has to buy in completely into a D coach and allow him to run the plays while we are on defense, or like this year our Yin and Yang will be out of Sync again!

112288