The Big 3's career stats

celtic fan wrote:since when does the top 20 have to be 5 at each position?

isn't it possible that -gasp- more than 5 of the top 20 all time great players were oh I don't know, Point guards... or centers???

hmmm we'll need a committee to discuss this, but only using conjecture and opinion.. no stats allowed

Guess it doesnt. So who are the 20 Point Guards or 20 Centers that are better players than Kevin Garnett?

mrkleen09 wrote:

celtic fan wrote:Does KG's accomplishments make him an all time top 20 player?

Yes.

KG is Top 3 or 4 at his position x 5 positions on the court = Top 20 for sure.

Bob Petit and Elvin Hayes were both absolute beasts.


For me, it's Duncan, Petit and Hayes as the top 3 at one level.


KG, Mchale and Malone are on the next tier, with Barkley floating around close by.

Guys like Maurice Lucas and Rodman are a tier further down.


Malone's failure to win a ring (and him personally choking in Game 1 in '97 Finals) definitely hurts him, as it does Barkley. Rings aren't everything, but they matter. A lot. I love Karl personally and his offense and rebounding were incredible. But he came up short when it mattered most in '97 and '98.


So it comes down to Mchale vs KG for the 4th spot. Tough call. I'd probably go with Mchale, but it's certainly a valid argument to have.

Although it's pretty much splitting hairs, as KG certainly falls somewhere in the top 20-30 overall. Depends on who's making the list.

celticfan

I saw this game Wolves vs Heat,I can't remember the year,where Alonzo Morning was all over KG and KG was draining jumper after jumper right in his face.In that game he looked like a Bob McAdoo clone that could still defend and board like KG.I still remember that game because I told some of my close hoop junkie friends how shocked I was that KG could dominate Zo like that.I think KG had something like 38 or 39 with 20 boards and Zo was just something like 20-12 or so,but I remember the young KG having his share of monster games,theres a reason hes been to so many all star teams since his second year and an MVP.

Malones durability is amazing and he should be given credit for that,I would be thrilled if KG had some of that and can come back stronger this upcoming season.Malone also ran floor better than any PF I've ever seen,he was scary on that break,and still remember one fastbreak dunk over Kareem in the playoffs that I was afraid for Jabbars health for a moment.Malones offensive game and KG's were different,but KG could still go off on teams.How many times did Malone lead league in rebounding?Its a shame such a loyal guy like KG could not get better talent around him.McHale did a terrible job drafting and putting pieces around KG,if this was todays era KG would have left much sooner.

cow

babyskyhook wrote:

mrkleen09 wrote:

celtic fan wrote:Does KG's accomplishments make him an all time top 20 player?

Yes.

KG is Top 3 or 4 at his position x 5 positions on the court = Top 20 for sure.

Bob Petit and Elvin Hayes were both absolute beasts.


For me, it's Duncan, Petit and Hayes as the top 3 at one level.


KG, Mchale and Malone are on the next tier, with Barkley floating around close by.

Guys like Maurice Lucas and Rodman are a tier further down.


Malone's failure to win a ring (and him personally choking in Game 1 in '97 Finals) definitely hurts him, as it does Barkley. Rings aren't everything, but they matter. A lot. I love Karl personally and his offense and rebounding were incredible. But he came up short when it mattered most in '97 and '98.


So it comes down to Mchale vs KG for the 4th spot. Tough call. I'd probably go with Mchale, but it's certainly a valid argument to have.

Although it's pretty much splitting hairs, as KG certainly falls somewhere in the top 20-30 overall. Depends on who's making the list.

Everything I read about Hayes says he was a bit too selfish and at times a malcontent. Oh he was called a choker too. That makes me hesitant to list him in the top 5. A quick google found this.

Hayes also had a prickly personality that rubbed some people the wrong way. He liked to blow his own horn and call his own shots. Some called him selfish, others called him petulant, and worst of all, some called him a choker. Alex Hannum, one of eight coaches he played for in the NBA, called him "the most despicable person I've ever met in sports."

Bernie Bickerstaff, an assistant coach with the Bullets when Hayes won his only NBA championship in 1978, saw a different person. "Elvin was very tough to read and very sensitive," Bickerstaff told The New York Times. "He was eight different people and you never knew what to expect. He was so talented he found it difficult to understand why others failed to perform up to his standards. But I don't blame Elvin, I blame the system that created him."

The fact that he fouled out of Game 7 of the NBA finals and the Bullets won regardlessly makes me think Big E was a big stat stuffer. I could be wrong though.

I know Malone didn't win a ring but making the finals back to back times and well losing to Jordan and the Bulls who never lost in the finals has to mean something. I mean no one can lay claim to having beat the Jordan and the Bulls in the finals. It's the equivalent of facing Joe Montana in the Super Bowl. So Malone's biggest issue was A: not being as great at Jordan and B: playing in great in the wrong decade.

All I'm saying is, that if titles are the difference maker, I think Malone should get some benefit of the doubt.

mrkleen09 wrote:

celtic fan wrote:since when does the top 20 have to be 5 at each position?

isn't it possible that -gasp- more than 5 of the top 20 all time great players were oh I don't know, Point guards... or centers???

hmmm we'll need a committee to discuss this, but only using conjecture and opinion.. no stats allowed

Guess it doesnt. So who are the 20 Point Guards or 20 Centers that are better players than Kevin Garnett?

quickly and not in exact order I'd make my top 25 like this.

Top 25 all time

1. Jordan
2. Bill
3. Wilt
4. Kareem
5/6. Larry/Magic
7. Shaq
8. Duncan
9. Hakeem
10. Kobe
11. Oscar
12. West
13. Havlicek
14. Baylor
15. Dr. J
16. Malone
17. Stockton
18. Cousy
19. Moses Malone
20. Isiah
21. Pippen
22. KG
23. Barkley
24. Drexler
25. David Robinson