Training Camp Opens the 28th

With 11 days left before the Boston Celtics launch thier 2011-11 campaign beginning with what should be a very interesting training camp on the 28th.

There is so much to talk about and I was wondering how the board feels about the off season acquisitions. I think there are a host of unknowns going into the season. They include:

Will the big 3 have enough in their tank to play well during a grueling 82 game schedule and potential playoff run. The Championship run against LA took a measure form this veteran team.

With the additions of Shaq and Jermaine have the Celtics put themselves in a position where they will be better in the frontcourt then every other team in the NBA?

The hard working Perkins will be back mid season perhaps. How will he get back into the rotation and will he be effective on the glass and on defense?

Rajon is coming off an allstar year but seemed to fade in the latter stages of the playoffs. His early departure from Team USA coupled with an ongoing premise that he must be a good jump shooter and free throw shooter to truly be an elite PG must be weighing heavily on him. Willl the additions of Shaq and Jermaine give him the inside options when running the offense that has been lacking? "Rajon finds Shaq underneath...he dunks it" Rajon passes to Jermaine on the baseline and Jermaine knocks down a jumper. I've had visions of this all summer.

Delonte West aka "Lucky" is back home and I am wondering if the turbulent years that he spent in Cleveland will be burried in the past. D West is a solid all around player that adds depth at the 1 and 2 spots. How do you think he will perform?

Marquis Daniels was resigned as some insurance for Paul Pierce but Quis has been a disappointment and remains a question mark as a solid and reliable BU at the 3. How will he perform this year and will Boston add a Morrison to sure up that position. I think Morrison deserves a shot but will he get that chance?

The Celtics defensive approach is sure to change this year. We will see less defensive rotations and more zone defenses?

How do the two rookies fit into the mix? It would be nice if we could draft a player that is not automatically designated for D League tour.

Nat Robinson is a high energy player that can get red hot or ice cold in a NY minute. Will he get the meaningful minutes at the BU PG position or will he find himself in competition with D West for playing time?

How much space will be left for everyone else when both Big Baby and Shaq are on the court together?

Last question: Does Boston have what it takes to win a championship this season?

dboss

Dboss,

Great to see your post...and on such a relevant and interesting topic. Probably implied by what you said is the fact that the Celtics gave a vote of confidence to a number of "holdover" players (Ray, Nate, Daniels, Davis last season, and actually to all Three Amigos by keeping them together). I'm wondering whether or how that show of support may affect their performances this season.

Of all the things you mentioned, I can't help but feel that the biggest unknown (at least at the outset) will be the defense. Will Roy Rogers pull different triggers than Thibs did? How will the team take to any defensive schemes that are different from last season?

It's going to be fascinating, and I'm looking forward to all insights from this extremely knowledgeable board of fans.

Thanks for starting the ball rolling.

Sam

Can anyone tell me who Roy Rogers is?I remember Rodney Rogers,never heard of Roy,what are his credentials as a coach?Rays resume speaks for itself,I never heard of Roy Rogers as a player or coach.......strange move by Danny to me.

Well apparently he does not own a chain of resturants and he is not married to Dale Evans

Funny cow I was asking myself the same equestion. I cannot believe that he played for Boston.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/roy_rogers/index.html

I believe he's the answer to a trivia question: Which Boston Celtic had the highest number? (There may have been someone tied with him; I didn't bother to look.)

He played in 9 games for the 1997-98 Celtics (37 minutes, 7 points) before being included in the Billups trade.

I don't believe his Celtics number (99) is hanging in the Garden rafters.

Sam

didn't he used to make fried chicken too?

Hi,
Sam, you stole my line about defense
It was the first thing I thought about after reading Dboss' post.
2 major contributing factors: a) no TT and b) 2 new key players.
My guess is that Celtics will be more offensive and less defensive team in comparison to the last year.
My answer to Dboss last question is yes. The core of the team is the same and the game 7 loss has stung them really bad.
Is it October 26 yet?

AK

Sinus,

Sorry about that. I've had pretty much the same feeling as you have about the likely balance between offense and defense in the coming feeling, so you can rack that one up as a score for you in terms of stealing lines.

I've always had a habit of measuring the styles of current Celtics teams with those of Celtics teams of the past. One thing I realize is that most Celtics teams through the years, while possessing good-to-superior defensive capabilities, let their offense set the tone.

For example, the Russell Celtics were able to play absolutely lock-down defense when the occasion demanded. But they realized the value of letting their offense take the lead because it was so overpowering to the point of withering. The offense so debilitated the other team that defense didn't have to bail them out except very occasionally (Havlicek stole the ball, etc.). They were a very good defensive team in 1961-62, but they gave up an average of 112 PPG. Of course they scored 121 PPG.

I'm hoping that's the kind of team this will be because it seems to me that they've had to rely too much on their defense to bail them out recently, even in the 2007-08 season. That's really hard work, and it has tended to put them in the same too frequently debilitated position as opponents of the old Celtics.

I also like to compare the makeup of current Celtics teams with those of earlier Boston teams. For the past three years, I've felt they most resembled the Russell Celtics by depending very much on guile and finesse. This year, I see them as having greater similarity to the Bird Celtics, with a powerful frontcourt with the capability of ramming the ball down opponents' throats.

It should be a lot of fun, and I haven't the faintest clue as to how it will all turn out.

Sam

Article from Bleacher Report: Do the Celtics keep Von Wafer or Tony Gaffney?

Just one man's opinion and as everybody knows opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one. Still, he makes some solid points.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/463526-boston-celtics-15th-man-should-they-keep-von-wafer-or-tony-gaffney

bob

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bob C thanks for the link. Article makes a real strong case for Gaffney.

Training camp and pre season will shake things out.

dboss

Bob,

Loved the article on Gaffney As someone who has been dying for the Celtics to acquire a defensively oriented guy with legitimate SF size (Gaffney's 6' 8" but would need a load of work in the weight room), I'm tentatively going to be rooting him to knock Wafer out of the 15.

Gaffney sort of flew under the radar in the Summer League, which is usually more of an offensive showcase than an indicator defensive skills anyway. I recall liking the fact that he seemed very comfortable in positioning and anticipation. For some reason, I think he has the work ethic to make himself a sufficient offensive threat (maybe with an emphasis on the pick-and-roll) so his lack of offensive stardom won't seriously detract from a strong defensive presence off the bench.

Finally, I'm hoping the bench will become an uptempo juggernaut, and Tony's athleticism could make him a welcome complement to Nate or West at PG and or Daniels at SG.Bob,

Loved the article on Gaffney As someone who has been dying for the Celtics to acquire a defensively oriented guy with legitimate SF size (Gaffney's 6' 8" but would need a load of work in the weight room), I'm tentatively going to be rooting him to knock Wafer out of the 15.

Gaffney sort of flew under the radar in the Summer League, which is usually more of an offensive showcase than an indicator defensive skills anyway. I recall liking the fact that he seemed very comfortable in positioning and anticipation. For some reason, I think he has the work ethic to make himself a sufficient offensive threat (maybe with an emphasis on the pick-and-roll) so his lack of offensive stardom won't seriously detract from a strong defensive presence off the bench.

Finally, I'm hoping the bench will become an uptempo juggernaut, and Tony's athleticism could make him a welcome complement to some mix of Nate, West, Daniels and Bradley at PG/SG. Whatever happens, if Gaffney shows potential (even if mainly for the future), I like the idea that, suddenly, the Celtics would once again be grooming some pretty good-looking young guys in Harangody, Gaffney and Bradley. And I hope we can hope for to a a blend of an uptempo offense and a disruptive defense down the road.

Sam

The big 3 will be fine. There major problem last year was injuries, not age. Doc has learned a thing or two about saving his players during the regular season and they will benefit from that this season.

Don't know if the O'neils will help make this front court better than any other but it should clearly be better than last season's.

Perk is what he is and first and foremost he is a hard worker. He will get back in the rotation but won't really be counted on until the playoffs. He will have problems as all do who are coming back from that type of injury. (At least all not named Welker, LOL)

Rondo will continue to improve his game this season. He will be a better player than last year, hitting for higher % on both jump shots and foul shots but still won't be anything to write home about in those departments. But he will be even better as a facilitator and will make even more of those crazy layups he attempts. He may or may not make the all star team this year but he will be in the Finals. Those dreams you mentioned? come true they do.

Delonte will prove how grateful he is to be returned to the Green. He is a solid player and methinks he will receive more support for his health issues than he has with the other teams. Solid but only occasionally spectacular.

Quis started off last year playing much better than he did post injury. Look for him to play better than he did last year. It remains to be seen if he will be more than an adequate back up.

The defensive makeup and strategy for this season has to be the biggest question mark. It will be a new system. Let's hope that they accept it and learn it and most importantly execute it.

The only way the Celtics draft an immediate impact type player is if they go high lottery. That ain't happening. lol So look to see if they get any playing time at all. D-league for sure or I'll be pleasantly surprised. I think that Harangody will see more time this season than Bradley.

Nate and DWest will compete for playing time. Both can play either the one or two so that will help. This will still be a veteran dominated lineup, dominated by Doc who has his own issues. Rookie playing time being just one of them. But mostly he will manage playing time in a good way, as he has in the past. The competition for minutes will make practices a lot more imortant.

12 square feet, mas or menos. lol

Yes

Sam wrote:Bob,

Loved the article on Gaffney As someone who has been dying for the Celtics to acquire a defensively oriented guy with legitimate SF size (Gaffney's 6' 8" but would need a load of work in the weight room), I'm tentatively going to be rooting him to knock Wafer out of the 15.

Gaffney sort of flew under the radar in the Summer League, which is usually more of an offensive showcase than an indicator defensive skills anyway. I recall liking the fact that he seemed very comfortable in positioning and anticipation. For some reason, I think he has the work ethic to make himself a sufficient offensive threat (maybe with an emphasis on the pick-and-roll) so his lack of offensive stardom won't seriously detract from a strong defensive presence off the bench.

Finally, I'm hoping the bench will become an uptempo juggernaut, and Tony's athleticism could make him a welcome complement to Nate or West at PG and or Daniels at SG.Bob,

Loved the article on Gaffney As someone who has been dying for the Celtics to acquire a defensively oriented guy with legitimate SF size (Gaffney's 6' 8" but would need a load of work in the weight room), I'm tentatively going to be rooting him to knock Wafer out of the 15.

Gaffney sort of flew under the radar in the Summer League, which is usually more of an offensive showcase than an indicator defensive skills anyway. I recall liking the fact that he seemed very comfortable in positioning and anticipation. For some reason, I think he has the work ethic to make himself a sufficient offensive threat (maybe with an emphasis on the pick-and-roll) so his lack of offensive stardom won't seriously detract from a strong defensive presence off the bench.

Finally, I'm hoping the bench will become an uptempo juggernaut, and Tony's athleticism could make him a welcome complement to some mix of Nate, West, Daniels and Bradley at PG/SG. Whatever happens, if Gaffney shows potential (even if mainly for the future), I like the idea that, suddenly, the Celtics would once again be grooming some pretty good-looking young guys in Harangody, Gaffney and Bradley. And I hope we can hope for to a a blend of an uptempo offense and a disruptive defense down the road.

Sam

sam,

The NBA is about matchups and the effective exploitation of them (execution!). One potential downside of Gaffney over Von Wafer (jawohl, Mein Herr!) is that it would mean that we would have only 1 shooter, Pierce at SF and his backups are strictly defenders. How would we match up against the other backup 3s? Of course, this is all moot unless Pierce or Q are out. If they're playing and healthy Gaffney never gets off the pine.

Miami: Mike Miller, James Jones; both shooters. Good to have defenders at backup 3 then.
Orlando: Quentin Richardson, likes to shoot 3s. Not bad for us to have a defender.
Chicago: Kyle Korver; shooter, shooter, shooter. Good for us to have a defender.
Lakers: Matt Barnes, more defender than shooter. Loves 3s. Having a defending 3 not as valuable.
OKC: Jeff Green; Gaffney would be completely overmatched against Green. Too strong, too versatile.

One potential silver lining (or is that just spray paint?) is the outside chance that Luke can play SF. Not his natural position but Lord Knows he can shoot. Another possibility is Davis playing 3 against the big 3s like Green.

bob

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In other training camp related news:

Lester Hudson received an invite to the Wizard's training camp.

JR Giddens received an invite to the Sacto Kings camp.

Good luck guys.

bob

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How good of a scorer is Von Wafer? Seems to be kind of hard to figure out just looking at his previous career.

I dont know why they would bother with a "headcase" who does not seem to be THAT talented on a position where you are already fairly deep.

I guess camp + preseason will figure it out.

swedeinestonia wrote:How good of a scorer is Von Wafer? Seems to be kind of hard to figure out just looking at his previous career.

I dont know why they would bother with a "headcase" who does not seem to be THAT talented on a position where you are already fairly deep.

I guess camp + preseason will figure it out.

swede,

And Delonte West isn't a "headcase"?

bob

.

Delonte West seems to a headcase too for sure but he has played several seasons in the NBA so you know what you get on the court and to a certain degree off the court.

With Von Wafer he seems to have one seasons with Houston and other than that it is all trouble in one way or another. And that is in 4-5 years.

Swede

I think training camp and preseason will shake things out and we will get to see first hand how Wafer and Gafney perform. My thoughts are that the 3 spot is a vulneral postition for us because Daniels has a history of nagging injuries that could keep him in dress cloths.

Last year TA could come in at the 3 spot now we do not have that 3rd option.

dboss

Hi,
Official press follows this thread:

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/extras/celtics_blog/



AK