What Is Wrong With The Celtics?

Six games in does not tell the whole story but characters have been introduced and plots and subplots have revealed themselves.

So what is wrong with the Celtics?  If they were 4-2 instead of 2-4 would we be asking this question. Maybe not.  We are 2-4.    

We lost big time to the Raptors but every other game was quite winnable.  We have seen a lack of energy and commitment to defense,  missed man hours due to Covid and after affects, migraines, sore calves, tight knees, tummy aches and the usual game missing ailments.  Some promising guys are piling up DNP's coaches decision or seeing significantly reduced roles.  Our revamped offense looks like crap.

I want to dig a bit deeper into a couple of things that appear to be a big problem moving forward.

We can begin with Udoka's switch everything defense which has thus far made this team vulnerable.  When the other team already knows who they want to attack the switch everything scheme makes it easier to find those matchups.  Other teams want Al Horford checking a Bradley Beal or a Dinwiddie away from the basket because as good a defender that Al is he does not have enough lateral quickness to check those type of guys off the bounce.  The other team gets an added bonus because Al is out of rebounding position.  I think this style of defense is going to wear AL Horford down to a knub.  

If there was one thing that excited me going into the season was the idea of having more quality on the ball defenders.  In other words, we have enough quality defender not to switch everything.  

The other thing that bugs me is the Jaylen in the corner rule.  Ime was asked about having Jayson and Jaylen on the same side in some critical situations.  Ime replied that if you put both of them on one side of the court it would bring a good defender over on Jaylen and one on Jayson.  This make zero sense to me.  Our two best players have great experience  going up against quality defenders.  You cannot stick one of your prime time shot makers away from the action.    All the talk about these two guys making each other better cannot be realized until you play them together.  They are on the court together but you are not playing them together.  I want to see a lot more two-man game with them paired together especially in end of game situations.    If you are going to carry a two barrel shot gun you need both chambers loaded.  We also need that 3rd reliable shooter to be in the mix. (Who is that player?)

I also do not particularly embrace the two big lineup.  With it you have 3  non-outside shooters plus the Jays.    To add insult to injury, you are left with a bench that has no big guy that figures prominently into Ime's rotation.   No I do not believe Al is a PF.  He is an undersized center and in 4 games he has played very well but I think it is fool's gold.  We need a big man to anchor the second unit.  I would continue to start Rob and bring Al off the bench.    In so doing I would move to a 3 wing lineup.  

Dennis Schroder, even with the warts, is a better PG than Marcus.  Marcus is the perfect 6th man that can come in and fill a role primarily as a defender and ball handler.  Playing them together looks very awkward.  

Ime will prod along for a while until him comes to the realization that changes will need to be made.

We still are not seeing consistent ball movement, enough cuts to the basket or any measure of creativity in the offense.  It pretty much looks the same as it did last year except even worse.

P.S. They need more time to figure things out.

Good news is, dboss, tonight is yet another game to get things together.  League isn't going to stop and give us time to mull things over and figure things out after much deliberation! And against another stiff opponent. Any bets for the other side of 3OT's?!!

db

That bringing over the other defender comment was idiotic and shows me this coach is not too bright, we’re gonna let pairing our 2 stars get stopped by the fear of a Caldwell Pope? Jaylen has dunks over Lebron, Giannis, Embid, Porzingus, now Miles Bridges, I don’t think he fears taking an elite defender off the dribble. Tatum lives to go one on one against any elite defender, and when he’s in his zone can be unstoppable; be nice if he could figure out how to get easier baskets and get others easy baskets. That’s why he needs good coaching. Why don’t you say I haven’t figured out how to run an effective 2 man game with the J’s on one side yet? This coach has not gotten the best out of this roster or figured out the best combinations at all. Hopefully it’s coming.

So now after 6 games we surmise that our head coach is not too bright and is an idiot? After 6 games? Respectfully, that is asinine and wreaks of pure emotion.
Udoka wouldn’t have been in places he’s been if he wasn’t too bright.
Prudence dictates that we should at least wait until March/April and even then it may be too soon.
Ain’t none of us coaches, not even on the AAU level so lets relax and try if you will to support this team. We’ll all have things to bitch about this season, no doubt but questioning our head coaches intelligence this early? Hmmm…

Ktron wrote:So now after 6 games we surmise that our head coach is not too bright and is an idiot? After 6 games? Respectfully, that is asinine and wreaks of pure emotion.
Udoka wouldn’t have been in places he’s been if he wasn’t too bright.
Prudence dictates that we should at least wait until March/April and even then it may be too soon.
Ain’t none of us coaches, not even on the AAU level so lets relax and try if you will to support this team. We’ll all have things to bitch about this season, no doubt but questioning our head coaches intelligence this early? Hmmm…

I said the comment was idiotic and stand by my statement, don’t put words in my mouth that aren’t there

cowens/oldschool wrote:

Ktron wrote:So now after 6 games we surmise that our head coach is not too bright and is an idiot? After 6 games? Respectfully, that is asinine and wreaks of pure emotion.
Udoka wouldn’t have been in places he’s been if he wasn’t too bright.
Prudence dictates that we should at least wait until March/April and even then it may be too soon.
Ain’t none of us coaches, not even on the AAU level so lets relax and try if you will to support this team. We’ll all have things to bitch about this season, no doubt but questioning our head coaches intelligence this early? Hmmm…

I said the comment was idiotic and stand by my statement, don’t put words in my mouth that aren’t there

You certainly don’t need my help there. If you say a person makes an idiotic comment and not too bright, you said what you are thinking. So didn’t I and I stand by my assessment!

I backed my statement with facts, why don’t you debate facts?

Idiotic statement made is not same as calling one an idiot.

To change focus a bit regarding last night's loss to the Bulls.

The entire bench was elated, high fives were flying when they were up by 19 points.

From that point on I noticed almost every player that took the floor made a couple of sloppy mistakes.

In Greek and Shakespearean tragedy the word is Hubris: excessive pride or self confidence ultimately causing ruin. It's human nature no matter your walk of life. In basketball terms it's usually framed "don't get too high or too low."

It can be muted but it's not easy and takes practice and experience and the memory of it happening to you in the past. Sang froid is the French phrase for the attitude needed. After a horrible 1st half LaVine exhibited the cool killer instinct, DeRozan had it all game. They weren't celebrating when the made a great play, LaVine wasn't moaning and complaining when he sucked the first 2 or 3 quarters. They kept their cool and continued to play hard. And they won.

The Celtics look like a rudderless ship heading towards that fateful iceberg.

The biggest issue with this team may be at the point. We need one guy who can run the show. Settle the team down, distribute the basketball to our shot makers and be less concerned with their own looks.

We have in the past had great offensive PG's but when have we had a guy who was a top notch playmaker and distributor as their primary goal.

dboss wrote:The Celtics look like a rudderless ship heading towards that fateful iceberg.  

The biggest issue with this team may be at the point.  We need one guy who can run the show.  Settle the team down, distribute the basketball to our shot makers and be less concerned with their own looks.  

We have in the past had great offensive PG's but when have we had a guy who was a top notch playmaker and distributor as their primary goal.

Watching the Knicks play every now and then, seeing Kemba and Rose sharing the position and it’s working well for them, couldn’t help noticing what both these guys can still do and what Smart can’t do. We all overestimated Smarts ability to be a point on a contending team and I have seen stretches in past seasons that he can play point. He’s just not a full time pg, it’s just not who he is. Can we figure it out like the way Knicks have 2 veterans sharing the position?

cowens/oldschool wrote:I backed my statement with facts, why don’t you debate facts?

Idiotic statement made is not same as calling one an idiot.

Outside of Jaylen getting dunks,The post I responded to was loaded with your opinions. Your opinions do not make it facts.
A fact is a thing that is known or proved to be true. So, “facts” cannot be debated.
I’ll challenge your opinion if I disagree and I disagree with your premise regarding idiotic statements not coming from idiots.
You also said that our coach was not too bright. That’s pretty profound and in my opinion hitting below the belt but its your opinion and I disagree with your opinion.
I’m going to leave it at that because it would be silly to belabor the issue..in my opinion…

Hi everyone,
I haven't posted in quit a while but read posts.   I just thought I would add a couple of things that I haven't seen mentioned.  Tatum has received  quite a bit of heat for his shooting percentage.  I agree it isn't good.  I will say he starts slow nearly every year and comes on strong.  He catches grief every year on this board.  Slowly everyone come around again and sees the player he is as the season goes on.  Now here are some other players that are struggling  this year:

Olympic players:
Lillard, Doncic, Fox, Booker, Tatum, Mitchell, Grant - All struggling with shot

Non Olympic:
Steph Curry- 42.2 FG%,  Beal 37.9%, Trae Young 43%, Harden 39.8%

This is why I am not overly concerned with Tatum's shot yet.  Probably wasn't a good idea to hit the weights like he did after the Olympics. Should have been resting.

We as a team do not "dig in" on defense.   Rebounding and defense are effort  IMO.

Smart has been pretty much awful so far.  Brown has played a few good games but had 2 games I think of 9 and 14 points.  He is averaging more turnovers than assists.

We do not run near enough.  We need to get some "dog" in our mind set.  This needs to start with Brown and Tatum and it will carry over.  So far I haven't seen it from either one.

Complaining is pretty common in the NBA and with the rougher play  doesn't surprise me there is complaining. There will be a adjustment period.

Coaching figures into some of this like their effort and what they do on the court.  I will hold my opinion on the coach for a little while.  Not impressed yet.

In the build-up to the season, the team was talking up Marcus as the pg even though he lacks the skill set. IMO, this pressure has colored his thinking, worsened his game. Schroeder is our best point. I absolutely don’t understand the philosophy that he’s too expensive in the long run to play now. I don’t care if he goes to the moon next year. Next game I’d like to see him next to Nesmith, along with the Js and RW. Let’s run teams off the court. We have the young legs and the ball moves around a lot more on the break. Hawk

Look how much were struggling, he’s not perfect, but could you imagine how much more we’d be struggling without Shroder. He just has more burst and point guard skills than Smart and it’s not even close.

You have two players that do not know how to fit into a TEAM CONCEPT playing strategy. This has been growing for the last 3 years, so it should be of no surprise to anyone on this board where we are at currently.

As I have been saying, it may take a trade of one of the two J's to fix this along with some of the others.

I guess we did learn one thing so far, it was not all Brad's fault!

112288

It is hard to be impressed with the team and the coach when they are sitting at 2-5

I think this team just needs more time to figure things out.  Guys are frustrated out there.  The coach is frustrated and the fans are frustrated.

Winning games changes everything so they just need to put it all together.  Last year we started out at 8-3 so maybe an early season record should not be the barometer for expectations.

dboss wrote:  Last year we started out at 8-3 so maybe an early season record should not be the barometer for expectations.

You said it!

all the small things...

Hi,
I think it's the most fitting thread for this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeqJHWCD1hY
I haven't heard from Jackie Mac for a long time, so was very interesting to hear her opinion.
Also, this interview is a week old but still not outdated.

AK