Bill Russell’s Boston Celtics were anything but slow and unskilled — and we have the proof

https://us.yahoo.com/sports/bill-russell-boston-celtics-were-090051155.html



Bill Russell’s Boston Celtics were anything but slow and unskilled — and we have the proof


Justin Quinn
Tue, July 19, 2022 at 5:00 AM






There is a popular misconception that basketball before the modern era was slow, unwatchable and played by non-athletes with little skill.

Perhaps at least some of that was true before the start of the shot clock era in 1954, but by the time the Boston Celtics rose to dominance in the late 1950s, that was anything but the case — and not just with the Celtics.

Boston more than any team in the late ’50s and 1960s popularized a fast-paced, athletic version of the sport that would leave many modern players gasping for air. And that was why the Celtics — particularly Olympic athlete Bill Russell — played such a style.

Eventually, the rest of the league caught on and stole their thunder as is so often the case. But don’t let those who are speaking out of ignorance tell you the game was soft, slow or unskilled.




As evidence, we humbly submit this frame-corrected and colorized version of Bill Russell and his Celtics putting the hurt on opponents at high speed, and with all the flashy passes, deft shots and complex plays you would expect to see today, courtesy of Foobas Sports.


Bob
MY NOTE:  I am not a fan of comparing eras.  This isn't NBA2K.  You play against actual people and the competition you were up against is the competition you won or lost against.  The medical technology of the day determines not only your effectiveness on the court over the course of an 82 game season but also how long your career could last.  

And how long were those seasons?  In 1962 the season began on October 16th and ended on March 17th and was 80 games long.  Only two games less, but today's season ends in the 2nd week of April, at least 3 weeks longer.  

Back in the day an ACL was a career-ender, now we have players tearing their ACL and coming back next season.  We know more about nutrition, about the need to get your treatments and ice baths and massages etc.  We now have "rest games".  Players fly on luxury charter planes now.  Back in the day they either rode the bus for many hours or flew coach.  

The league goes through cycles, like everything else over a long enough period of time.  Everything old becomes new again as it is reinvented.  6'10" in bare feet, 220# with a 48" vertical leap and a 7'4" wingspan Bill Russell fits the bill for a modern NBA center (Robert Williams is 6'8", 237# with a 7'6" wingspan and a 40" vertical leap, and he's one of the most athletic bigs in today's game).   When centers went big (e.g. Shaq, Mark Eaton) the league moved that way, but it has come full circle (and Russell defended Wilt who was as big and tall and strong as anybody in any era too) but now those hulking monsters are considered dinosaurs.  Any center that cannot/will not go out to the 3pt arc to defend will not have a long and illustrious career in today's NBA.  They changed the rules on hand-checking to make MJ look good.  How would he, and Kobe, have done if they had a defender like Jerry Sloan with a hand on their hip steering them where they wanted, and banging them every step of the way?  Ask any player who played against Sloan and they'll tell you how much they hurt afterwards because of his physicality. They don't let defenders defend like that anymore, so how can you compare? Baseball doesn't change the rules much, it's pretty much the same game as it was 100 years ago.  Not so with basketball.


.

Perfect analysis Bob and right on point for me to use during my sometimes futile Barbershop arguments with Ignoramus’s that were born in the 80’s and 90’s.
Thank ya!

The game of basketball has evolved and while that was happening the game of baseball was not exactly sitting in a time capsule unchanged.

The fundamentals have not changed that much but the rules have changed quite a bit.

However the single most impactful change in both baseball and basketball was desegragation.

Basketball

The free-throw lane was widened in all levels from six to 12 feet in 1956. The NBA eventually widened it to 16 feet.
In 1972-73, free throws were eliminated for the first six common fouls of each half. In the NBA, the three-to-make-two and two-to make- one bonus free throw rule was eliminated in

Although in 1976 the ABA and the National Basketball Association merged, the NBA resisted adopting the three-point line, seeing it as a mere gimmick, but in 1979, the same year that then-rookies Larry Bird and Earvin Magic Johnson debuted, the league finally adopted three-point shooting.


In 1979 Hand-checking: "A defender may not place and keep his hand on an opponent unless he is in the area near the basket with his back to the basket. A defender may momentarily touch an opponent with his hand anywhere on the court as long as it does not affect the opponent's movement (speed, quickness, balance, rhythm)."

In 1981-82, the alternating possession arrow replaced the jump ball save for the start of the game and each overtime period. The jump ball is still used to settle situations after a held ball during NBA games.

1981. On the fifth team foul committed in a quarter, or if a team commits more than one foul in the last two minutes of a quarter, the opposition gets to shoot two free throws.

2002 Zone defenses introduced

Baseball

1920 The batter was given credit for a home run in the last of the ninth inning if the winning run was on base when the ball was hit out of the field.  The number of runs batted in were to be included in the official score.
Frivolous ninth-inning uncontested steals in one-sided games were were to be scored as defensive indifference.

1925 The minimum home-run distance was set at 250 feet.

1926 Pitcher was allowed to use a rosin bag.
Sacrifice hit awarded when any runner advances on a fly out.

1931 Balls that bounce over the fence entitle batter to two bases.
Balls hit over the fence are to be ruled fair or foul based on where they are when they leave the field.
Sacrifice flies eliminated.
Regulations referring to a batter contacting his own ball were clarified as was the area of bases awarded a batter when a defensive player threw his glove at a batted or thrown ball or in the case of spectator interference.

1950 Home team must bat second.
Mound must be 15 inches high.
Rules for determining winning and losing pitcher established.
Size of first baseman's glove/mitt regulated.
Strike zone redefined to from armpits to top of knees.

1953 Players were to remove their gloves from the field (in

1954) when batting and no equipment was to show on the field at any time.  Defensive interference was changed from an offense solely by a catcher to one by a fielder as well.
No fielder could take a position in line with a batter's vision with the deliberate intent to in any way distract the batter.
Sacrifice fly rule was brought back, this time with a man scoring after the catch only.

1959 Regulations were set up for minimum boundaries for all new parks, 325-400-325 feet.

1963 Strike zone enlarged to from top of the shoulders to the knees.

1965 The size of the catcher's mitt was regulated.

1968 The anti-spitball rule was rewritten and tightened up because of the wave of moistened pitches that floated plateward the prior season.

1969 The pitcher's mound was dropped five inches.
The strike zone was shrunken to the area from the armpits to the top of the batter's knees.
The save rule was added to the official rules for the first time.

1971 All major-league players were ordered to wear protective helmets.

1973 The rule on glove size and color was minutely outlined for standardization.
The American League began using designated hitter for pitchers on an experimental basis.

1974 The save rule was rewritten.
Minimum standards for individual championships were outlined.

1975 The ball was permitted to be covered with cowhide because of the shortage of horses.
Suspension for three days became mandatory if batter were to hit a fair ball with a filled, doctored or flat-surfaced bat.
Current save rule was adopted.

1978 Pitcher can't throw at the batter.

1988 Catchers must wear protective helmets while on defense.

2008 MLB adds limited (home run calls, fair or foul) instant replay to be in effect for all games starting on Friday, August 29th.

2016 Slides on potential double plays will require that base runners must make a bona fide attempt to reach and remain on base.

2022 Draft lottery implemented to discourage tanking.
The National League officialy adopts the designated hitter.
The postseason expands to 12 teams.

2023 Defensive shifts are banned.
Pitch clocks will be used.

bobheckler wrote:https://us.yahoo.com/sports/bill-russell-boston-celtics-were-090051155.html



Bill Russell’s Boston Celtics were anything but slow and unskilled — and we have the proof


Justin Quinn
Tue, July 19, 2022 at 5:00 AM






There is a popular misconception that basketball before the modern era was slow, unwatchable and played by non-athletes with little skill.

Perhaps at least some of that was true before the start of the shot clock era in 1954, but by the time the Boston Celtics rose to dominance in the late 1950s, that was anything but the case — and not just with the Celtics.

Boston more than any team in the late ’50s and 1960s popularized a fast-paced, athletic version of the sport that would leave many modern players gasping for air. And that was why the Celtics — particularly Olympic athlete Bill Russell — played such a style.

Eventually, the rest of the league caught on and stole their thunder as is so often the case. But don’t let those who are speaking out of ignorance tell you the game was soft, slow or unskilled.




As evidence, we humbly submit this frame-corrected and colorized version of Bill Russell and his Celtics putting the hurt on opponents at high speed, and with all the flashy passes, deft shots and complex plays you would expect to see today, courtesy of Foobas Sports.


Bob
MY NOTE:  I am not a fan of comparing eras.  This isn't NBA2K.  You play against actual people and the competition you were up against is the competition you won or lost against.  The medical technology of the day determines not only your effectiveness on the court over the course of an 82 game season but also how long your career could last.  

And how long were those seasons?  In 1962 the season began on October 16th and ended on March 17th and was 80 games long.  Only two games less, but today's season ends in the 2nd week of April, at least 3 weeks longer.  

Back in the day an ACL was a career-ender, now we have players tearing their ACL and coming back next season.  We know more about nutrition, about the need to get your treatments and ice baths and massages etc.  We now have "rest games".  Players fly on luxury charter planes now.  Back in the day they either rode the bus for many hours or flew coach.  

The league goes through cycles, like everything else over a long enough period of time.  Everything old becomes new again as it is reinvented.  6'10" in bare feet, 220# with a 48" vertical leap and a 7'4" wingspan Bill Russell fits the bill for a modern NBA center (Robert Williams is 6'8", 237# with a 7'6" wingspan and a 40" vertical leap, and he's one of the most athletic bigs in today's game).   When centers went big (e.g. Shaq, Mark Eaton) the league moved that way, but it has come full circle (and Russell defended Wilt who was as big and tall and strong as anybody in any era too) but now those hulking monsters are considered dinosaurs.  Any center that cannot/will not go out to the 3pt arc to defend will not have a long and illustrious career in today's NBA.  They changed the rules on hand-checking to make MJ look good.  How would he, and Kobe, have done if they had a defender like Jerry Sloan with a hand on their hip steering them where they wanted, and banging them every step of the way?  Ask any player who played against Sloan and they'll tell you how much they hurt afterwards because of his physicality.  They don't let defenders defend like that anymore, so how can you compare?  Baseball doesn't change the rules much, it's pretty much the same game as it was 100 years ago.  Not so with basketball.


.

Sorry RWill is 6’10”, he is easily 2 inches taller than Theis who is between 6’8”-6’9”. For some reason some list him at 6’8”, Bill Walton was the same way, he was listed as 6’11”, but was easily 7’1” or taller. I forget who, maybe it was you Bob, that compared Russell’s height and build to Amare Stoudamire; which is very accurate, ofcourse with different games. Todays players have so many more skilled moves, cross overs, step backs, etc, but I agree the best players had enough athleticism to play and excel today; especially if they had today’s training methods and nutrition and massage therapists.

cowens/oldschool wrote:

bobheckler wrote:https://us.yahoo.com/sports/bill-russell-boston-celtics-were-090051155.html



Bill Russell’s Boston Celtics were anything but slow and unskilled — and we have the proof


Justin Quinn
Tue, July 19, 2022 at 5:00 AM






There is a popular misconception that basketball before the modern era was slow, unwatchable and played by non-athletes with little skill.

Perhaps at least some of that was true before the start of the shot clock era in 1954, but by the time the Boston Celtics rose to dominance in the late 1950s, that was anything but the case — and not just with the Celtics.

Boston more than any team in the late ’50s and 1960s popularized a fast-paced, athletic version of the sport that would leave many modern players gasping for air. And that was why the Celtics — particularly Olympic athlete Bill Russell — played such a style.

Eventually, the rest of the league caught on and stole their thunder as is so often the case. But don’t let those who are speaking out of ignorance tell you the game was soft, slow or unskilled.




As evidence, we humbly submit this frame-corrected and colorized version of Bill Russell and his Celtics putting the hurt on opponents at high speed, and with all the flashy passes, deft shots and complex plays you would expect to see today, courtesy of Foobas Sports.


Bob
MY NOTE:  I am not a fan of comparing eras.  This isn't NBA2K.  You play against actual people and the competition you were up against is the competition you won or lost against.  The medical technology of the day determines not only your effectiveness on the court over the course of an 82 game season but also how long your career could last.  

And how long were those seasons?  In 1962 the season began on October 16th and ended on March 17th and was 80 games long.  Only two games less, but today's season ends in the 2nd week of April, at least 3 weeks longer.  

Back in the day an ACL was a career-ender, now we have players tearing their ACL and coming back next season.  We know more about nutrition, about the need to get your treatments and ice baths and massages etc.  We now have "rest games".  Players fly on luxury charter planes now.  Back in the day they either rode the bus for many hours or flew coach.  

The league goes through cycles, like everything else over a long enough period of time.  Everything old becomes new again as it is reinvented.  6'10" in bare feet, 220# with a 48" vertical leap and a 7'4" wingspan Bill Russell fits the bill for a modern NBA center (Robert Williams is 6'8", 237# with a 7'6" wingspan and a 40" vertical leap, and he's one of the most athletic bigs in today's game).   When centers went big (e.g. Shaq, Mark Eaton) the league moved that way, but it has come full circle (and Russell defended Wilt who was as big and tall and strong as anybody in any era too) but now those hulking monsters are considered dinosaurs.  Any center that cannot/will not go out to the 3pt arc to defend will not have a long and illustrious career in today's NBA.  They changed the rules on hand-checking to make MJ look good.  How would he, and Kobe, have done if they had a defender like Jerry Sloan with a hand on their hip steering them where they wanted, and banging them every step of the way?  Ask any player who played against Sloan and they'll tell you how much they hurt afterwards because of his physicality.  They don't let defenders defend like that anymore, so how can you compare?  Baseball doesn't change the rules much, it's pretty much the same game as it was 100 years ago.  Not so with basketball.


.

Sorry RWill is 6’10”, he is easily 2 inches taller than Theis who is between 6’8”-6’9”. For some reason some list him at 6’8”, Bill Walton was the same way, he was listed as 6’11”, but was easily 7’1” or taller. I forget who, maybe it was you Bob, that compared Russell’s height and build to Amare Stoudamire; which is very accurate, ofcourse with different games. Todays players have so many more skilled moves, cross overs, step backs, etc, but I agree the best players had enough athleticism to play and excel today; especially if they had today’s training methods and nutrition and massage therapists.

Cow,

Once again, you have to be careful with "the eyeball test", unless you are seeing them together in person.  Camera angles can make a player look taller or shorter than another player standing next to them.

He was listed at 6'9"-6'10" at Texas A&M but the NBA changed their guidelines and required player to be measured in bare feet, like the way they were done back in Russell's day and today's sneakers add 1 1/2" - 2" to a player's height.  He might have grown an inch since leaving college, from 6'8" to 6'9", but no more than that.  Remember, he was drafted after his sophomore year, he was a 21 year old rookie.  We don't grow that much after 21, at least not upwards.


Bob


.

Eleven rings. Ten fingers. What more can one say about Bill Russell?

worcester wrote:Eleven rings. Ten fingers. What more can one say about Bill Russell?

Worcester,

He doesn't have enough fingers?


Bob


.

I am willing to bet Russ could have outjumped RW in his prime. He was such a joy to watch, Renember most of his points if not all, came from under the basket to 10-15 feet out. Eleven rings or one, makes no difference to me, he was still the greatest player I have ever watched, He could have played the game in any era and still been magnificent

bobheckler wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:

bobheckler wrote:https://us.yahoo.com/sports/bill-russell-boston-celtics-were-090051155.html



Bill Russell’s Boston Celtics were anything but slow and unskilled — and we have the proof


Justin Quinn
Tue, July 19, 2022 at 5:00 AM






There is a popular misconception that basketball before the modern era was slow, unwatchable and played by non-athletes with little skill.

Perhaps at least some of that was true before the start of the shot clock era in 1954, but by the time the Boston Celtics rose to dominance in the late 1950s, that was anything but the case — and not just with the Celtics.

Boston more than any team in the late ’50s and 1960s popularized a fast-paced, athletic version of the sport that would leave many modern players gasping for air. And that was why the Celtics — particularly Olympic athlete Bill Russell — played such a style.

Eventually, the rest of the league caught on and stole their thunder as is so often the case. But don’t let those who are speaking out of ignorance tell you the game was soft, slow or unskilled.




As evidence, we humbly submit this frame-corrected and colorized version of Bill Russell and his Celtics putting the hurt on opponents at high speed, and with all the flashy passes, deft shots and complex plays you would expect to see today, courtesy of Foobas Sports.


Bob
MY NOTE:  I am not a fan of comparing eras.  This isn't NBA2K.  You play against actual people and the competition you were up against is the competition you won or lost against.  The medical technology of the day determines not only your effectiveness on the court over the course of an 82 game season but also how long your career could last.  

And how long were those seasons?  In 1962 the season began on October 16th and ended on March 17th and was 80 games long.  Only two games less, but today's season ends in the 2nd week of April, at least 3 weeks longer.  

Back in the day an ACL was a career-ender, now we have players tearing their ACL and coming back next season.  We know more about nutrition, about the need to get your treatments and ice baths and massages etc.  We now have "rest games".  Players fly on luxury charter planes now.  Back in the day they either rode the bus for many hours or flew coach.  

The league goes through cycles, like everything else over a long enough period of time.  Everything old becomes new again as it is reinvented.  6'10" in bare feet, 220# with a 48" vertical leap and a 7'4" wingspan Bill Russell fits the bill for a modern NBA center (Robert Williams is 6'8", 237# with a 7'6" wingspan and a 40" vertical leap, and he's one of the most athletic bigs in today's game).   When centers went big (e.g. Shaq, Mark Eaton) the league moved that way, but it has come full circle (and Russell defended Wilt who was as big and tall and strong as anybody in any era too) but now those hulking monsters are considered dinosaurs.  Any center that cannot/will not go out to the 3pt arc to defend will not have a long and illustrious career in today's NBA.  They changed the rules on hand-checking to make MJ look good.  How would he, and Kobe, have done if they had a defender like Jerry Sloan with a hand on their hip steering them where they wanted, and banging them every step of the way?  Ask any player who played against Sloan and they'll tell you how much they hurt afterwards because of his physicality.  They don't let defenders defend like that anymore, so how can you compare?  Baseball doesn't change the rules much, it's pretty much the same game as it was 100 years ago.  Not so with basketball.


.

Sorry RWill is 6’10”, he is easily 2 inches taller than Theis who is between 6’8”-6’9”. For some reason some list him at 6’8”, Bill Walton was the same way, he was listed as 6’11”, but was easily 7’1” or taller. I forget who, maybe it was you Bob, that compared Russell’s height and build to Amare Stoudamire; which is very accurate, ofcourse with different games. Todays players have so many more skilled moves, cross overs, step backs, etc, but I agree the best players had enough athleticism to play and excel today; especially if they had today’s training methods and nutrition and massage therapists.

Cow,

Once again, you have to be careful with "the eyeball test", unless you are seeing them together in person.  Camera angles can make a player look taller or shorter than another player standing next to them.

He was listed at 6'9"-6'10" at Texas A&M but the NBA changed their guidelines and required player to be measured in bare feet, like the way they were done back in Russell's day and today's sneakers add 1 1/2" - 2" to a player's height.  He might have grown an inch since leaving college, from 6'8" to 6'9", but no more than that.  Remember, he was drafted after his sophomore year, he was a 21 year old rookie.  We don't grow that much after 21, at least not upwards.


Bob


.

In essence don't believe you’re lying eyes unless your reading.

RosalieTCeltics wrote:I am willing to bet Russ could have outjumped RW in his prime. He was such a joy to watch,  Renember most of his points  if not all, came from under the basket to 10-15 feet out.  Eleven rings or one, makes no difference to me, he was still the greatest player I have ever watched,  He could have played the game in any era and still been magnificent

Rosalie

Anytime you try to compare the players who played 50+ years ago to the players of today, it is an impossible task. Yet periodically we have those reflections and discussions. A young Bill Russell could have played in the NBA today. His roll and impact however would be very different simply because big men can play away from the basket. Russell was a traditional low post player.

I truly cannot say if Russell could out jump Robert Williams. I doubt that he could. They both could jump but Rob is unique because of the speed with which he can get up off the floor. Rob also has ridiculous hops.

The athletes of today are just plain better than the athletes of yesteryear., It is no knock on the former athletes. It is just an evolutionary reality.