Denver Post-Game

The Boston Celtics beat the Melo-less Denver Nuggets. Ho-hum. That would describe the Celtics' attitude in the second quarter when they blew 18 points off a 19 point lead.

1. Sloppy passing throughout by both teams. 5 TOs by Rondo. The good news here is that we are underwhelmed by his 13 assists, which is below his season average 14.1. That tells you how spoiled we are.

2. Ty Lawson had a career night. First against Nate, then against Rondo. A player whose speed can overmatch those two and, unlike Marcus Banks, used that speed while under control? Impressive game by the youngster. With 7 assists and only 3 TOs to go with his 24 points, he is the heir apparent to the 34-year old Chauncey Billups. He sure played like he deserves it last night.

3. We miss Tony Allen. JR Smith lit us up repeatedly, often from the same spot. We miss having a stopper at 2.

4. Speaking of "lack of a stopper at 2", once again I saw nothing in Von Wafer's game to be happy about. Poor shooting and two turnovers in just 6 minutes. I've gone on record as saying that summer league means less than pre-season which is pretty little given that pre-season means nothing. Unfortunately, Von Wafer is giving me reasons to pause. He stunk in pre-season and that's looking like a reliable indicator at this point.

5. Three blocks by Shaq. Oooh. If only we could get some more of that.

6. I wonder what happened in the off season with Davis that has made him so effective in drawing charges? He leads the NBA with 24, and he's a sub. Did he have a divine revelation? Is it the result of workouts with a coach? Regardless, gotta love it. Just gotta gotta love it. We're shooting over 50% from the floor this year, so every turnover we create is almost guaranteed to turn into points (unless the passing is as sloppy as last night). That's Baby Value, right there.

7. As good as our bench looked the previous game, that's how bad they looked this game. We got completely outscored by their bench. 9-24 by us (37.5%) vs 19-43 (44%) for their bench. In fact, their bench took over 50% of their fga. Their bench breathed life back into the whole team. I suppose another way of looking at this is that our starters played impressive defense (especially in that blowout first quarter!) and shut their starters down. Not that impressive, though, when you remember Carmelo didn't suit up.

8. Al Harrington has never seen a 3ptr he didn't love. Man, when a gunner is traded from the run-and-gun 3pt shooting teams of Don Nelson and Mike D'Antoni, you KNOW there's something wrong with his judgment and shot selections.

9. We shot 56% from the floor last night. Wow. They only shot 42%, despite the splendid shooting performances of Ty Lawson and JR Smith (a combined 50%). Wow.

Jon Barry, who was the color announcer for ESPN, said he'd take Boston, if healthy, over any other team in the NBA. Considering their pre-season drool levels with LeBron and the Miami Stink, this could be the kiss-of-death. Let's hope not. I'd feel better if it was Tim Legler. He was the only one of those morons to pick the 2008 Champions correctly but even then, talk is cheap.

bob

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bob it is sure good to have you back.

Man i enjoyed readin that!

I HOPE everything is ok with your family.

jeb wrote:bob it is sure good to have you back.

Man i enjoyed readin that!

I HOPE everything is ok with your family.

jeb,

It's nice to be back. It's also a bummer being back. That's the schizophrenia that comes with vacations.

My family is doing well, thanks. I hope you and your family are doing as well as can be expected, given your stressful situation. I dinged my left knee last night getting down on it for you. Tonight, I'll use my head for something other than a hat rack and put a pillow down on the floor first. It feels really weird doing it, I haven't done this since I was a little child following instructions, until I remember why I'm doing it.

Keep us posted. I am very comfortable when I say, on behalf of EVERYBODY on this board, it's important to us.

Basketball related posts should keep coming too, when you have the chance. A little spice makes everything taste better.

bob

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Got to the line 36 times..good
Made 26....not so good. Baby was 8 for 12 himself, seems he is finding a way to not get blocked but fouled instead. took 3 charges as mentioned by Bob.

Minutes were OK with PP and RA around 36. KG and RR 30. Should have been less if the bench had played a bit better in the second.

Seems we got away from feeding Shaq early. But when you start out 7 for 7 I think we got the idea this was a cake walk.
Late the double tech was assessed to BB..........? Yeah he was face to face with Nene but it was quite obvious regardless of what was said Nene attempted to head but Baby. With all the crap being called surprised the refs missed that.

In Philly this eve (road games as the second of back to backs) are always tough, even against Philly.

beat

well my thoughts about the celts is that they have tapped into the force and are playing joyful basketball with ganas to spare, but a very light hearted ganas.

I have just seldom, maybe never seen a team play with so much joy.

I watch the Lakes right now and they just look miserable,

INRE The Celtics...if a team plays WITHOUT fear so many more things are possible and a SEEMINGLY effortless flow appears.

You know its coming...they are gonna drop a 15 point run on you. The offense is by far the best of this incarnation of C's

"The offense is by far the best of this incarnation of C's."

my impression too, jeb. and thx to bob h for his lead-off insights - very valuable.

there are lots of reasons for the C's offensive efficiency and prowess, and some have already been mentioned.

Shaq fits, and fits well, due to his ongoing awareness of his role on the team. he knows who he is and what he can do, and what he's supposed to do. then there's RR's utterly astonishing APG, which he gets because guys are hitting shots off his dishes (which happens because he hits them right where and when they want it). and KG's resurgence - isn't THAT a beautiful thing to see !!! these are a few of MY favorite things ! ...

one surprise for me is that Large Infant can get his shot up under the basket now - you know, the one that got stuffed back in his face about a million times last season. what's up with that? !! coaching? playing against/with the starters so much? anyway, WONDERFUL to see !!

i gotta say, i like Quis - but i want to like him more. he lost the handle and turned it over a few times last night, and hasn't seemed very effective on offense in general lately. i'm looking forward to him finding a niche from which he can contribute better to the second unit's offensive flow. right now he's probably not playing in the "offensive asset" column.

finally, we were helped a little when JR Smith was taken out of the game late and summarily ejected HIMSELF, leaving the arena without a second glance at the bench or coach and leaving me chuckling. the game seemed solidly in our control by then, but that guy can get hot in a heartbeat and has brought the Nuggets back quick in a few games all by himself - i was glad to see him gone.

NO LETDOWN - BEAT PHILLY !!!
Michael

Bob,
Thanks for the summary.
I think it was 1st unit "fault" of the 2nd quarter collapse. Thankfully, their collective brains were put back and they were able to keep comfortable 15-16 points lead till the end.
I think, I hope that VW is being kept just for 2 reasons: (a) as backup while DW is out and, (b) as a trading chip if DA can find somebody to enforce Celtics mid-court.
I hope nothing serious happened to MD's thumb.

AK

Michael,

That thumb was obviously the reason why Quis sometimes had difficult maintaining a handle.

Man Bob – I think there were some issues last night, but I am hard pressed to remember a more nit picking post after a 20 point victory. Talk about never being satisfied.

bobheckler wrote:2. Ty Lawson had a career night. First against Nate, then against Rondo. A player whose speed can overmatch those two and, unlike Marcus Banks, used that speed while under control? Impressive game by the youngster. With 7 assists and only 3 TOs to go with his 24 points, he is the heir apparent to the 34-year old Chauncey Billups. He sure played like he deserves it last night.

Ty Lawson did have a good night, but to suggest that he has speed we cannot match is an amazing overstatement. Rondo isn’t even at 50% right now…and he still controlled the ball and dished out a ton of assists. A healthy Rajon definitely is not “overmatched” by Ty Lawson….dont make me laugh.

bobheckler wrote:3. We miss Tony Allen. JR Smith lit us up repeatedly, often from the same spot. We miss having a stopper at 2.

Marquis Daniels is easily as good a defender as Tony Allen – and with 100% better head for basketball on his shoulders. He has a dislocated thumb and still did a fine job most of the time he was only the floor. JR Smith got most of his points against Ray Allen – so not sure how the backup even comes into play.

bobheckler wrote:4. Speaking of "lack of a stopper at 2", once again I saw nothing in Von Wafer's game to be happy about. Poor shooting and two turnovers in just 6 minutes. I've gone on record as saying that summer league means less than pre-season which is pretty little given that pre-season means nothing. Unfortunately, Von Wafer is giving me reasons to pause. He stunk in pre-season and that's looking like a reliable indicator at this point.

Even with all the injuries the team has at the guard position – Von Wafer still only got 6 minutes. He is the 11th or 12th man on this team at best – and shows flashes of good individual one on one moves. I don’t have any idea why you keep harping on this kid…he is a total non story.

bobheckler wrote:6. I wonder what happened in the off season with Davis that has made him so effective in drawing charges? He leads the NBA with 24, and he's a sub. Did he have a divine revelation?

Baby was near the top of the NBA in drawing charges LAST SEASON as well.

bobheckler wrote: Not that impressive, though, when you remember Carmelo didn't suit up.

Seriously Bob? Talk about a whining, glass half empty attitude. Ever hear of Perkins, Jermaine O’Neil and Delonte West? You play the team in front of you. I say add Carmello - then Add our 3 missing players and you have a wash at worst.

If you are not satisfied with a team that is 17-4 and on an 8 game winning streak – I don’t know what to tell you

mrkleen09 wrote:Man Bob – I think there were some issues last night, but I am hard pressed to remember a more nit picking post after a 20 point victory. Talk about never being satisfied.

bobheckler wrote:2. Ty Lawson had a career night. First against Nate, then against Rondo. A player whose speed can overmatch those two and, unlike Marcus Banks, used that speed while under control? Impressive game by the youngster. With 7 assists and only 3 TOs to go with his 24 points, he is the heir apparent to the 34-year old Chauncey Billups. He sure played like he deserves it last night.

Ty Lawson did have a good night, but to suggest that he has speed we cannot match is an amazing overstatement. Rondo isn’t even at 50% right now…and he still controlled the ball and dished out a ton of assists. A healthy Rajon definitely is not “overmatched” by Ty Lawson….dont make me laugh.

bobheckler wrote:3. We miss Tony Allen. JR Smith lit us up repeatedly, often from the same spot. We miss having a stopper at 2.

Marquis Daniels is easily as good a defender as Tony Allen – and with 100% better head for basketball on his shoulders. He has a dislocated thumb and still did a fine job most of the time he was only the floor. JR Smith got most of his points against Ray Allen – so not sure how the backup even comes into play.

bobheckler wrote:4. Speaking of "lack of a stopper at 2", once again I saw nothing in Von Wafer's game to be happy about. Poor shooting and two turnovers in just 6 minutes. I've gone on record as saying that summer league means less than pre-season which is pretty little given that pre-season means nothing. Unfortunately, Von Wafer is giving me reasons to pause. He stunk in pre-season and that's looking like a reliable indicator at this point.

Even with all the injuries the team has at the guard position – Von Wafer still only got 6 minutes. He is the 11th or 12th man on this team at best – and shows flashes of good individual one on one moves. I don’t have any idea why you keep harping on this kid…he is a total non story.

bobheckler wrote:6. I wonder what happened in the off season with Davis that has made him so effective in drawing charges? He leads the NBA with 24, and he's a sub. Did he have a divine revelation?

Baby was near the top of the NBA in drawing charges LAST SEASON as well.

bobheckler wrote: Not that impressive, though, when you remember Carmelo didn't suit up.

Seriously Bob? Talk about a whining, glass half empty attitude. Ever hear of Perkins, Jermaine O’Neil and Delonte West? You play the team in front of you. I say add Carmello - then Add our 3 missing players and you have a wash at worst.

If you are not satisfied with a team that is 17-4 and on an 8 game winning streak – I don’t know what to tell you

MrKleen,

I hate to nitpick but it was a 16 point win, not 20. You might very well have been right and it would have been a 20 point win, or more, if they hadn't surrendered that dominating lead in the second quarter. Pointing out they had a 19 point lead is nitpicking. Pointing out they had gave up 13 points off a 14 point lead in just 9 minutes of play is nitpicking. I guess one person's nitpicking is another person's review.

Rondo was overmatched on speed last night. Deny that. Nate, who is not injured to the best of my knowledge, was overmatched on speed last night too. Deny that. Rondo isn't even at 50%? That would be clear by the pronounced limp as he crawled upcourt dragging his leg behind him, I suppose, not to mention the times he turned the corner on the high pick. Are you happy with Doc for playing Rondo when he's less than 50%? If that's too "glass half empty" a thought for you, then just move on and go to your happy place. Personally, I think Rondo is much healthier than 50% and that's why Doc played him 30 minutes last night, which is far less than the 39 minutes he's been averaging but is still giving him starter minutes. I believe Doc is an outstanding coach, who has shown himself to be extremely protective of injured and aging players (limiting KG's minutes last year and this, keeping Shaq's minutes reasonable despite the loss of JO). I can't believe he's so blind regarding Rondo's glass-half-empty health.

Marquis Daniels generally comes in for Paul Pierce, meaning he plays backup 3, not 2. Our backup 2 is Delonte West. Furthermore, I never mentioned Q's thumb, since I was talking about defense and not offense. In fact, I never mentioned Daniels at all. If Smith got most of his points off of Ray Allen, then why did YOU mention Daniels?

I "harp" on Von Wafer because every time he's on the court, he stinks it up. If everytime he stepped on the court he did something good, I'd still "harp" on him, just in a good way. He's on the team, that makes him "a story". Players who are "non-stories" might include Gaffney and Lasme, the two players whose place on the bench he took but isn't showing himself worthy of IMO. Two players who could play backup 3, freeing up Daniels to play more backup 2 instead of 3. Doesn't that sound good to you? After all, "Marquis Daniels is easily as good a defender as Tony Allen – and with 100% better head for basketball on his shoulders", right?

I didn't realize Davis was one of the top NBA players in taking charges last year as well. Where did you hear that? The NBA doesn't give individual credit to charges taken, only as the other team's turnover. I heard it on TV last night. Hoopdata has Davis well below #1 this year and had him #47 last season. Got a source you can share?

As far as missing Perkins, missing Perk is probably the biggest reason we got JO and Shaq in the first place. Pointing to our weakness without him forgets why we have this beefed up frontcourt in the first place. We went to war without an adequate backup for Perk last year, what makes you think Danny would have gone out and signed Shaq and JO if he was healthy this year? What makes you think they would have signed, if Perk was healthy? Carmelo isn't "just another player". Carmelo is a perennial all-star, future HOFer and THE key player on the Nuggets. Without him, they are a middle-of-the-road team. Being in the middle of the road, when you're playing a top tier team, makes you road kill, like last night. That doesn't mean we had to make it easier for them, like we did in the first half. That's right, I called the 2010 Boston Celtics "a top tier team". What a startling statement, coming as it does from a "whining, glass half empty attitude".

I never said I wasn't satisfied with the overall standings of the Boston Celtics. Please read the title of this thread and you'll see it is a post-game thread, not a state-of-the-team thread. If you re-read my opening post, you'll see it focuses mostly on the play last night. Like mentioning Shaq's 3 blocks. I admit that I threw in some thoughts about players that took in more than just their performance last game. For example, I mentioned how spoiled we are that Rondo's assists are so sky-high this year. For example, I mentioned Davis' success at taking charges this year (you are the one that dashed cold water on it by claiming that this is nothing to get excited about). Not bad for a "whiny, glass half-empty" person but that's just me putting my usual whiny, glass half-empty signature on it.


bob

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Sam wrote:Michael,

That thumb was obviously the reason why Quis sometimes had difficult maintaining a handle.

and i didn't even know about it - thanks for the heads up. sometimes i wonder where my head is ...

but maybe i just missed Tommy and Mike calling the game - they surely would have made the point unmistakeable !

thanks,
Michael

Bob

Bottom line is that I have really having nothing further to say to anyone that thinks:

a) Rajon Rondo is over matched when facing Ty Lawson

b) Tony Allen was more of a defensive stopper than Marquis Daniels

c) Glen Davis just learned to draw charges this past summer

mrkleen09 wrote:Bob

Bottom line is that I have really having nothing further to say to anyone that thinks:

a) Rajon Rondo is over matched when facing Ty Lawson

b) Tony Allen was more of a defensive stopper than Marquis Daniels

c) Glen Davis just learned to draw charges this past summer

Bottom line, I have nothing further to to say to anyone who:

1. Didn't see Lawson was eating Rondo and Nate alive last night. I don't need to, his stat line and on-court performance speaks for me.

2. Thinks Tony Allen and Marquis Daniels play the same position. They generally don't. If we had another backup 3 on the team, which would allow Daniels to play Tony's position and backup Ray instead of Paul, then comparing them might make sense, but we don't (and it doesn't) because West is injured and Von Wafer got that slot.

3. Can't provide evidence supporting his statement about Davis taking charges last season. Nobody said he just learned to take them. Every player knows how to take them and nobody said Davis didn't take any last season. Nice try trying to twist this into being about Davis' competency last season (without providing support) instead of being about how everybody is giving him credit for his stellar performance in this area this year. Way to suck all the joy out of the superior defensive contribution to the team he's providing this year. Anytime you provide the support for your previous season's observations, though, I'll be happy to consider it.

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I am deleting this post....no need to get into it any further.

I like Bob....I disagree with just about everything he said above - but I still like him and there is no need to continue this.

Good move.

My wife disagrees with me all the time, and I can't get her to delete any of her posts. Nice to know it can happen.

Sam

I am trying Sam.....it is hard because I like to debate, and along those lines - I like to think I am right. But as our President said, it is possible to disagree without being disagreeable.

Cant say I wont fall off the wagon and go at it with someone over the course of the season...but I am trying

kleen

your my hero! your doin great!

YOU are my hero Jeb....taking on life's adversity with your head up is a rare gift. How you feeling buddy?