No more excuses: Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum have to come up big in big games - Dan Shaughnessy/Boston Globe
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No more excuses: Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum have to come up big in big games - Dan Shaughnessy/Boston Globe
No more excuses: Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum have to come up big in big games
By Dan Shaughnessy Globe Staff,Updated January 24, 2024, 5:00 a.m.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/01/24/sports/celtics-jaylen-brown-jayson-tatum/
“So you’re scared, and you’re thinking that maybe we ain’t that young anymore.”
— Bruce Springsteen, “Thunder Road”
It’s time.
No more “they are so young.”
No more “they are both All-Stars and max contract guys and top 20 guys.”
Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown need to be NBA champions. In June. It’s time for them to win banner No. 18 for the Boston Celtics.
Brown is 27, playing in his eighth NBA season. Tatum turns 26 in a few weeks and is playing in his seventh NBA season. Brown has been to the conference finals in five of seven seasons, Tatum in four of six. Both made it to the NBA Finals two years ago but came up short after taking a 2-1 series lead against the Warriors.
They are not NBA “young” anymore. This is their time. They play for the most talented team in the league and there should be no excuses if they don’t get it done this spring.
I’m thinking of this today because the Celtics have the best record in the NBA and last Friday at the Garden engaged in a primo joust with the defending champion Nuggets, losing, 102-100.
That game looked and felt like a preview of the 2024 NBA Finals.
We certainly understand that the Celtics are not going to win every game, and there’s no need to apologize for losing to the reigning champs by 2 points. The Celtics were a perfect 20-0 at the Garden going into that game and we promise not to read too much into a single January loss. Overall, the Celtics are a smokin’ 34-10, and JT and JB combined for 73 points in an easy win in Dallas Monday.
(Here comes the “but.”)
But there were telltale signs of “same old same old” at the end of the epic game vs. Denver.
Tatum and Brown came up small.
And this will … not … do … when the serious ball is played in May and June.
You know what I’m talking about, Green Teamers. And you know that it’s time for Scal Nation and the rest of the JT/JB apologists to stop making excuses for Boston’s bookend All-Star slashers.
Tatum and Brown want all the goodies, adulation, and respect that come with NBA stardom, but they have yet to win a championship and they too often come up small when the moment is big. This spring, they need to show us that they are not front-runners. We need more Magic Johnson, less James Harden. More Larry Bird, less Elvin Hayes.
Friday against the Nuggets — while Denver superstars Nikola Jokic and Jamal Murray were playing like champs — Tatum and Brown played like superstar wannabes. Brown, the highest-paid player in the NBA, made 6 of 19 shots, went 0 for 2 from the line, and had two rebounds and one assist in 36 minutes. He made one of his nine threes and missed his free throws at the most critical moment of the game.
Are you kidding me? Brown is a good player who’s having a good year, but our lasting memory of him was his Game 7 stink bomb in last May’s season-ending loss to the Heat when he made only 8 of 23 shots, hit 1 of 9 from three, and committed a whopping eight turnovers.
Tatum?
He made only 9 of 24 shots Friday, missed seven of his eight threes, and couldn’t draw iron on an isolation, hero-ball, step-back jumper from 17 feet that could have sent the game into overtime. He missed two shots over the final 18 seconds of the 2-point loss. The Celtics missed eight of their last nine shots and scored 2 points in the final 4:51.
Sorry, but as great as he is, Tatum turtles in the big moments. Last spring, when the Celtics lost the first three games of their season-ending series to Miami, Tatum got zero baskets in the fourth quarters of all three losses. In the Game 7 dud at home, he made only 4 of 13 shots and scored 14 points.
According to the Globe’s Gary Washburn, in clutch situations (a 5-point game in the final five minutes), Tatum is shooting 33 percent this season. He’s 1 for 7 when the game is within 3 points in the final 30 seconds. In games in which they trail by 3 points or fewer in the final 10 seconds, the Celtics are 1 for 11 from the floor.
Sigh.
Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown.
Few are better when it’s easy.
Few are worse when it’s hard.
And sorry, but they’re not that young anymore. Kevin McHale won an NBA crown in his rookie season. Bird won a title in his second year and had two rings in his first five seasons. Brown and Tatum are already older than Bill Walton (24), Dennis Johnson (24), and Cedric Maxwell (25) were when they were named Finals MVP.
Tatum and Brown are in their NBA primes. This is it. It’s time for the Jays to step up in the final moments of the big games.
By Dan Shaughnessy Globe Staff,Updated January 24, 2024, 5:00 a.m.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/01/24/sports/celtics-jaylen-brown-jayson-tatum/
“So you’re scared, and you’re thinking that maybe we ain’t that young anymore.”
— Bruce Springsteen, “Thunder Road”
It’s time.
No more “they are so young.”
No more “they are both All-Stars and max contract guys and top 20 guys.”
Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown need to be NBA champions. In June. It’s time for them to win banner No. 18 for the Boston Celtics.
Brown is 27, playing in his eighth NBA season. Tatum turns 26 in a few weeks and is playing in his seventh NBA season. Brown has been to the conference finals in five of seven seasons, Tatum in four of six. Both made it to the NBA Finals two years ago but came up short after taking a 2-1 series lead against the Warriors.
They are not NBA “young” anymore. This is their time. They play for the most talented team in the league and there should be no excuses if they don’t get it done this spring.
I’m thinking of this today because the Celtics have the best record in the NBA and last Friday at the Garden engaged in a primo joust with the defending champion Nuggets, losing, 102-100.
That game looked and felt like a preview of the 2024 NBA Finals.
We certainly understand that the Celtics are not going to win every game, and there’s no need to apologize for losing to the reigning champs by 2 points. The Celtics were a perfect 20-0 at the Garden going into that game and we promise not to read too much into a single January loss. Overall, the Celtics are a smokin’ 34-10, and JT and JB combined for 73 points in an easy win in Dallas Monday.
(Here comes the “but.”)
But there were telltale signs of “same old same old” at the end of the epic game vs. Denver.
Tatum and Brown came up small.
And this will … not … do … when the serious ball is played in May and June.
You know what I’m talking about, Green Teamers. And you know that it’s time for Scal Nation and the rest of the JT/JB apologists to stop making excuses for Boston’s bookend All-Star slashers.
Tatum and Brown want all the goodies, adulation, and respect that come with NBA stardom, but they have yet to win a championship and they too often come up small when the moment is big. This spring, they need to show us that they are not front-runners. We need more Magic Johnson, less James Harden. More Larry Bird, less Elvin Hayes.
Friday against the Nuggets — while Denver superstars Nikola Jokic and Jamal Murray were playing like champs — Tatum and Brown played like superstar wannabes. Brown, the highest-paid player in the NBA, made 6 of 19 shots, went 0 for 2 from the line, and had two rebounds and one assist in 36 minutes. He made one of his nine threes and missed his free throws at the most critical moment of the game.
Are you kidding me? Brown is a good player who’s having a good year, but our lasting memory of him was his Game 7 stink bomb in last May’s season-ending loss to the Heat when he made only 8 of 23 shots, hit 1 of 9 from three, and committed a whopping eight turnovers.
Tatum?
He made only 9 of 24 shots Friday, missed seven of his eight threes, and couldn’t draw iron on an isolation, hero-ball, step-back jumper from 17 feet that could have sent the game into overtime. He missed two shots over the final 18 seconds of the 2-point loss. The Celtics missed eight of their last nine shots and scored 2 points in the final 4:51.
Sorry, but as great as he is, Tatum turtles in the big moments. Last spring, when the Celtics lost the first three games of their season-ending series to Miami, Tatum got zero baskets in the fourth quarters of all three losses. In the Game 7 dud at home, he made only 4 of 13 shots and scored 14 points.
According to the Globe’s Gary Washburn, in clutch situations (a 5-point game in the final five minutes), Tatum is shooting 33 percent this season. He’s 1 for 7 when the game is within 3 points in the final 30 seconds. In games in which they trail by 3 points or fewer in the final 10 seconds, the Celtics are 1 for 11 from the floor.
Sigh.
Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown.
Few are better when it’s easy.
Few are worse when it’s hard.
And sorry, but they’re not that young anymore. Kevin McHale won an NBA crown in his rookie season. Bird won a title in his second year and had two rings in his first five seasons. Brown and Tatum are already older than Bill Walton (24), Dennis Johnson (24), and Cedric Maxwell (25) were when they were named Finals MVP.
Tatum and Brown are in their NBA primes. This is it. It’s time for the Jays to step up in the final moments of the big games.
steve3344- Posts : 4167
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Re: No more excuses: Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum have to come up big in big games - Dan Shaughnessy/Boston Globe
Dan Shaughnessy is a troll.
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gyso- Posts : 22144
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Re: No more excuses: Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum have to come up big in big games - Dan Shaughnessy/Boston Globe
He may be a troll but he speaks the truth. It is time. We've all said it. It starts this year.
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dbrown4- Posts : 5333
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Re: No more excuses: Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum have to come up big in big games - Dan Shaughnessy/Boston Globe
Tatum and Brown were terrible against the Nuggets, no question
How we were even in that game is amazing?
How we were even in that game is amazing?
cowens/oldschool- Posts : 27275
Join date : 2009-10-18
Re: No more excuses: Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum have to come up big in big games - Dan Shaughnessy/Boston Globe
DW, Jrue, Al and KP probably! That's my phrase that pays, cowens/oldschool. Were we still in the game despite JT and JB or (whatever)? Yes.
But DS is correct. If this team doesn't go through and win the Finals this year, we will need to take a very, very long look in the mirror. That's big time pressure. Lots of talent out there for us. They've got 40 games to figure it all out.
I don't know if his comparison to the 80's was fair but it does take eventual superstars much longer to win a title, using the old building from the ground up excuse. Magic was another rookie to win a championship.
db
But DS is correct. If this team doesn't go through and win the Finals this year, we will need to take a very, very long look in the mirror. That's big time pressure. Lots of talent out there for us. They've got 40 games to figure it all out.
I don't know if his comparison to the 80's was fair but it does take eventual superstars much longer to win a title, using the old building from the ground up excuse. Magic was another rookie to win a championship.
db
dbrown4- Posts : 5333
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Re: No more excuses: Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum have to come up big in big games - Dan Shaughnessy/Boston Globe
The '80s comparison is an example of him using "facts" to support his argument.
Back then, all players went to college for four years (or more), so they were better prepared (and older) for their rookie seasons. Now, it's one and done for the best players, who are often rookies at 19 years old.
Any comparisons of the players age and years in the league now cannot be compared with that of 60 years ago with any seriousness.
Tatum and Brown are not equal to Bird and Magic? Weak.
The whole thing is emotional tripe. IMO, there's not much truth here, mostly spin.
The word that better describes this article is Truthiness.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/truthiness-meaning-word-origin
Back then, all players went to college for four years (or more), so they were better prepared (and older) for their rookie seasons. Now, it's one and done for the best players, who are often rookies at 19 years old.
Any comparisons of the players age and years in the league now cannot be compared with that of 60 years ago with any seriousness.
Tatum and Brown are not equal to Bird and Magic? Weak.
The whole thing is emotional tripe. IMO, there's not much truth here, mostly spin.
The word that better describes this article is Truthiness.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/truthiness-meaning-word-origin
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gyso- Posts : 22144
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Re: No more excuses: Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum have to come up big in big games - Dan Shaughnessy/Boston Globe
Not the strongest argument I've seen lately.
I'll go with gyso's take on players entering the league at a younger age and add a look at the surrounding team. I would debate that the Bird era Celtics had a stronger starting lineup in their era and a deeper bench than Tatum and Brown have experienced.
I'll also go with Brown being nowhere near a Bird or McHale type impact player. All-Star? Yes. Highly valuable Celtic? Yes. But let's not heap more of a load on him than he can carry. It's not like this team has the equivalent of two Larry Birds in Tatum and Brown.
This is a team with a very strong starting five and two fair but limited bench players behind them. Can the team win a title as presently constructed? Very possible, if they all stay injury free. Just let's not toss this all at Tatum and Brown as if they can take on the league in a 2 on 5 matchup.
It will be fair to question the wisdom of having both on the roster down the road, in the future, if this group can't get a banner. The new CBA, health and the age of some current Celtic players all conspire to make that a given in my opinion. Perhaps we can see what Tatum, Brown and company can do this year before we go through the mental exercise of scrapping it and starting over.
I'll go with gyso's take on players entering the league at a younger age and add a look at the surrounding team. I would debate that the Bird era Celtics had a stronger starting lineup in their era and a deeper bench than Tatum and Brown have experienced.
I'll also go with Brown being nowhere near a Bird or McHale type impact player. All-Star? Yes. Highly valuable Celtic? Yes. But let's not heap more of a load on him than he can carry. It's not like this team has the equivalent of two Larry Birds in Tatum and Brown.
This is a team with a very strong starting five and two fair but limited bench players behind them. Can the team win a title as presently constructed? Very possible, if they all stay injury free. Just let's not toss this all at Tatum and Brown as if they can take on the league in a 2 on 5 matchup.
It will be fair to question the wisdom of having both on the roster down the road, in the future, if this group can't get a banner. The new CBA, health and the age of some current Celtic players all conspire to make that a given in my opinion. Perhaps we can see what Tatum, Brown and company can do this year before we go through the mental exercise of scrapping it and starting over.
NYCelt- Posts : 10627
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Re: No more excuses: Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum have to come up big in big games - Dan Shaughnessy/Boston Globe
I not saying that Tatum and Brown don't need to keep evolving into better and more complete players. Gary Washburn's clutch numbers for this season are scary bad.
"Green Teamers?" "Scal Nation and the rest of the JT/JB apologists"? Every time I re-read the crap above, I find another special tidbit.
"Green Teamers?" "Scal Nation and the rest of the JT/JB apologists"? Every time I re-read the crap above, I find another special tidbit.
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gyso- Posts : 22144
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Re: No more excuses: Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum have to come up big in big games - Dan Shaughnessy/Boston Globe
It's some big time heat on the Celtics this year for sure.
db
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dbrown4- Posts : 5333
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Re: No more excuses: Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum have to come up big in big games - Dan Shaughnessy/Boston Globe
Kareem was the 4th youngest at 23 when he was Finals MVP in 1971 and the oldest when he won it in 1985 at 38. Usually a star player wins it but not always - maybe it will be Derrick White in 2024.
BingBang!- Posts : 709
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Re: No more excuses: Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum have to come up big in big games - Dan Shaughnessy/Boston Globe
gyso
Troll seems to be a very appropriate word to capture the essence of another Dan Dismal article.
Only he could use a 2 point loss at home, our only home loss of the year, to crap on JT and JB. By now most fans comprehend the reality that our top two players are far from perfect. The last time I checked, basketball is a team sport. We also know that apples and kiwi comparisons have zero equivalency.
I am sure that Dan would be quite gleeful if the Celtics fall flat on their face and the Jays can blamed.
We all know that there is no guarantee nor a right to win anything.
Troll seems to be a very appropriate word to capture the essence of another Dan Dismal article.
Only he could use a 2 point loss at home, our only home loss of the year, to crap on JT and JB. By now most fans comprehend the reality that our top two players are far from perfect. The last time I checked, basketball is a team sport. We also know that apples and kiwi comparisons have zero equivalency.
I am sure that Dan would be quite gleeful if the Celtics fall flat on their face and the Jays can blamed.
We all know that there is no guarantee nor a right to win anything.
dboss- Posts : 18771
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Re: No more excuses: Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum have to come up big in big games - Dan Shaughnessy/Boston Globe
Quite true, dboss. Quite true.
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dbrown4- Posts : 5333
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Re: No more excuses: Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum have to come up big in big games - Dan Shaughnessy/Boston Globe
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Last edited by BingBang! on Thu Jan 25, 2024 4:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
BingBang!- Posts : 709
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Re: No more excuses: Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum have to come up big in big games - Dan Shaughnessy/Boston Globe
Shaughnessy is a journalist whose job is to speak truth to power- that is not trolling. He grew up in MA has written three well-reviewed books on the Celtics (history of the dynasty ; the 80s Celtics during which time he was the Globe’s beat reporter; a biography of Red). He’s actually helping, not hurting by accurately (as others journalists have similarly noted -see Washburn and Bontemps) reporting that the two Js have been outcompeted in crunch time. Personally I was encouraged that Tatum walked off the court without his usual post game mingling and hugging after clanking the losing shot against Denver.
BingBang!- Posts : 709
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Re: No more excuses: Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum have to come up big in big games - Dan Shaughnessy/Boston Globe
BingBang! wrote:Shaughnessy is a journalist whose job is to speak truth to power- that is not trolling. He grew up in MA has written three well-reviewed books on the Celtics (history of the dynasty ; the 80s Celtics during which time he was the Globe’s beat reporter; a biography of Red). He’s actually helping, not hurting by accurately (as others journalists have similarly noted -see Washburn and Bontemps) reporting that the two Js have been outcompeted in crunch time. Personally I was encouraged that Tatum walked off the court without his usual post game mingling and hugging after clanking the losing shot against Denver.
A fair take, BingBang.
Always good, and healthy, to look at competing opinions and both sides of the story.
NYCelt- Posts : 10627
Join date : 2009-10-12
Re: No more excuses: Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum have to come up big in big games - Dan Shaughnessy/Boston Globe
I pay no attention to what dan shaunessey has to say, the only time he writes is when it is negative . Go back to baseball, i refuse to read you
RosalieTCeltics- Posts : 40168
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Re: No more excuses: Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum have to come up big in big games - Dan Shaughnessy/Boston Globe
Troll or no troll.
Dan continues to write negatives articles about the Celtics.
The glass seems to be always half full for him.
This team is playing better than last year.
Dan continues to write negatives articles about the Celtics.
The glass seems to be always half full for him.
This team is playing better than last year.
dboss- Posts : 18771
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Re: No more excuses: Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum have to come up big in big games - Dan Shaughnessy/Boston Globe
Thanks Dboss, glad I am not the only one who sees this. He rides his name, picks he spots and throws the darts. Don’t know exactly who he is ticked off at, but I refuse to even open his articles. Lost faith in him years ago.
RosalieTCeltics- Posts : 40168
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Re: No more excuses: Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum have to come up big in big games - Dan Shaughnessy/Boston Globe
I hate all the hugging
cowens/oldschool- Posts : 27275
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Re: No more excuses: Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum have to come up big in big games - Dan Shaughnessy/Boston Globe
Here's something I've been thinking of... Next year we start paying Jaylen, what could we get for Jason, so we don't have to max both of them? I'm thinking a center type like Banchero, or other young big men. Maybe we'd get draft picks back as well.
matthehat- Posts : 12
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Re: No more excuses: Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum have to come up big in big games - Dan Shaughnessy/Boston Globe
Three reactions: 1 Dan wrote that this is the year to win - as noted above by others, that’s hard to dispute, 2 he took some gratuitous shots at apologists (copy filler-no value), 3 he criticized Tatum and Brown for wanting accolades they haven’t yet really earned, particularly when they get outcompeted “come up small” on the biggest stage, such as the Conference and Championship Finals. Point 3 is the truth to power aspect that I appreciated.
BingBang!- Posts : 709
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Re: No more excuses: Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum have to come up big in big games - Dan Shaughnessy/Boston Globe
BingBang! wrote:Three reactions: 1 Dan wrote that this is the year to win - as noted above by others, that’s hard to dispute, 2 he took some gratuitous shots at apologists (copy filler-no value), 3 he criticized Tatum and Brown for wanting accolades they haven’t yet really earned, particularly when they get outcompeted “come up small” on the biggest stage, such as the Conference and Championship Finals. Point 3 is the truth to power aspect that I appreciated.
Most every year is the year to win. The Celtics will compete again this year.
The problem that I have is that Dan and other idiots talk about crunch time as though it is some defining aspect of expectation for this team.
I take exception to the very notion that they are outcompeted. They may lose a game but they compete!
Bing, Dan is a negative element that is not very astute with respect to basketball and I do not care how many paperbacks he has written.
There is a statistic on ESPN that displays the win./loss record for games decide by 3 points.. The Celtics are 4-4. That's average right? well the Atlanta Hawks are 6-2 in games decided by 3 points or less and the Hawks freakin suck as a team. The Hornets are 6-1 in 3 point games. Crunch time numbers proves nothing of significance. Dan uses crunch time to disparage the Celtics. He does not mention the great things that are happening with this team. That is just not fair and that makes him just another ill informed troll.
Basically what I am saying is that Dan is barking up the wrong tree. The most significant stat is point differential. The Celtics are #1 at 10.2 PPG. That means they are beating teams, games in and games out by double digits.
There is no magic formula with respect to age when a player is entitled to win a championship.
Dan suggests that given their age they are no longer young and therefore they should win now. Really?
Tatum and Brown do not have to want accolades. They were all NBA teamers last season and are heading to another Allstar game. There is nothing wrong with that. I have never heard them blame anybody for failures that they have experience. They always talk about what they need to do better individually and as a team.
His distain is capsulated in his Green teamers comment.
His negativism drips off the page.
dboss- Posts : 18771
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Re: No more excuses: Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum have to come up big in big games - Dan Shaughnessy/Boston Globe
Dboss great points, I too continually have been saying to my son, he’s nothing in the clutch like Pierce or Bird, but there are so many other things Tatum and Brown do too for that matter, do so well both ends night in and night out to carry the team for years. The tandem might have the most success of any twosome presently today that has knocked at the door over and over, but just hasn’t broken thru yet. To be there every year starting at such a young age and to keep on improving and carrying the franchise thru thick and thin should be applauded. Actions speak louder than words and management knows as they rewarded him with the maximum rate that he could earn.
cowens/oldschool- Posts : 27275
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Re: No more excuses: Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum have to come up big in big games - Dan Shaughnessy/Boston Globe
In winning a championship/advancing deep into the playoffs, there is some degree of luck involved as well. Just using last season's playoffs as an example, there is no way on God's green earth that neither MIA nor the Lakers would have faired as well as they did if the doors had not flown open like they did. The whole West fell apart for the Lakers. Yes, they took advantage of it, but when the WCF came around, the luck had run out and they were mercilessly exposed. 7-game series will do that for you.
Same with the Heat but they were a little bit more calculated and smart. They were playing with house money, junking your game up with the zones and in the Finals, they were finally exposed, no pun intended. Clearly they had no place in the Finals or any round beyond the first. It was an awful Finals. The best team (maybe) won last year. It should have been us. I'm quite certain we will not dig ourselves an 0-3 hole ever again.
Dan at least gets us talking and defending. We do need to make sure all holes are boarded up come April. No leaks this time. We've got to solve the JT/Superman problem. Well he does. He needs to realize when to shoot and when to go for the assist in crunch time as Shaq was pointing out last night on TNT. Even if Dan sucks as a columnist and in his analysis, in the end, there are no banners for this current generation. So he's going to mouth off all he wants until the Celtics slam it shut like they did to MIA last night. I am expecting a GSW-type run though when it does get started.
db
Same with the Heat but they were a little bit more calculated and smart. They were playing with house money, junking your game up with the zones and in the Finals, they were finally exposed, no pun intended. Clearly they had no place in the Finals or any round beyond the first. It was an awful Finals. The best team (maybe) won last year. It should have been us. I'm quite certain we will not dig ourselves an 0-3 hole ever again.
Dan at least gets us talking and defending. We do need to make sure all holes are boarded up come April. No leaks this time. We've got to solve the JT/Superman problem. Well he does. He needs to realize when to shoot and when to go for the assist in crunch time as Shaq was pointing out last night on TNT. Even if Dan sucks as a columnist and in his analysis, in the end, there are no banners for this current generation. So he's going to mouth off all he wants until the Celtics slam it shut like they did to MIA last night. I am expecting a GSW-type run though when it does get started.
db
dbrown4- Posts : 5333
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