POST CHICAGO

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Post by 112288 Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:31 pm

THAT WAS A REAL STINKER!

I was really shocked 6 minutes in and we're up 7 points and starting to turn it on and then we stop. I mean stop .......
stop running, stop passing, stop cutting and stop hustling. It appeared that the whole team's head was not in the game.

There was no creativity on Rondo's part all evening. Nate seems to be drifting back into la la land and appears to have forgotten how to play Celtic basketball. He looks lost out there. Baby had a tough night, but I blame Doc. They made no adjustments on Boozer all night. To add to that, if he pulled that cheap high elbow play on KG, he would be on the floor in a pool of blood. He's a real AH! Also Baby just did not bring his game tonight and everyone saw it early, so who got the ball all night with less then 7 ticks on the clock.....Baby! I mean basketball 101 Doc, move the ball to someone who is somewhat hot, anyone except Baby! Doc it was not working!

I am also a little miffed that they were not able to counter Tom T. defense. I mean Doc knows his sets and what he likes to do, so we just walked into a land mine field!

One thing I got to get off my chest, this team cannot rely on KG to win. It's about time someone takes charge on defense against good teams and runs the defensive unit! Do not want to hear, well we don't have KG....no excuse....
the Celtics have too many HF players to allow a slippage in their defensive play. They also got to get real on their rebounding....it's getting out of hand. We had 74 shots vs. 63 for Chicago, yet they lead in rebounding 48 to the Celtics 27!!!!!!!!!!! Yaowwwwwwwwwwww!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was paying attention all nigh, one of our players takes a shot and before the shot hits the rim, everyone except the shooter is running back on defense!!!!!

Now don't get me started on the ref's...............all I can say is a bunch of idiots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Last but not least the Chicago announcers...............I got the Chicago feed from the NBA channel...what a bunch of unprofessional AH'ssssssssssssssssss! I mean when we shut a player down, Tommy or Mike just say it's a tough night for the guy or whatever..............these guys are pounding on Big Baby and make Boozer look like the next coming of God All Mighty............it just wanted to make you sick........they get 3 fingers down the throat award from me tonight!
Take some Bromoseltzer before bed and see me in the morning!!!!!!!!!


112288




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Post by bobc33 Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:40 pm

Come on 112288 stop pulling punches and tell us how you really feel.

Razz

I didn't watch the game closely, but it seems the team needs a few days off as there was a lot of walking out there.

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Post by 112288 Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:52 pm

Ya Bob, everyone tells me I'm a little laid back...kinda shy...reserved.....guy that just does not standout in a crowd.

Guess I have to work on that as one of my weak points in my personality......my mom alway said I should have gone to Dale Carnegie....you know "How To Win Friends and Influence People."

112288

PS There was a lot of walking the ball up! You're right!


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Post by steve3344 Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:46 am

Entire bench stunk it up last night. 2 hoops in 62 combined minutes. 0 assists.

We got outrebounded 48-27 yet at one point they said Boston had a 7 to 1 edge in the first quarter. Figured with no Noah would could at least hold our own on the boards even without KG. Guess not.

When the turnovers are 21 to 8 in your favor, it's damn hard to lose a game. But we did.

Glen's shooting 39% his last ten games. Just when I thought he was developing a reliable jump shot. Hope it's just a minor rough patch.

Went to a concert and came home to catch the game on tape delay. Not a pleasant way to cap off the evening watching that one...

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Post by gyso Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:06 am

It's just one game, they'll bounce back.

8th game in the last 12 nights. 5th game in the last 7 nights.

The Bulls just lost at NJ and Philly. I think they were looking forward to this game.

Hats off to coach Thibs who got the Bulls playing D at the right time.

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Post by sinus007 Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:03 am

Hi,
I guess it's one of those stinkers that Celtics make once in a while. OTOH, have to commend Bulls - they played tough last night.
There're a few things I couldn't understand.
1. As others mentioned, why to give ball to BBD every time when he's totally cold.
2. Why they didn't feed Shaq.
3. Why they put Nate into PG position when MD is on the floor. I thought it's been established that MD as PG and Nate as SG is much more efficient.

Oh well... I think Celtics needed some motivation for the next 7-10 games.

AK
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Post by bobheckler Sun Jan 09, 2011 1:00 pm

In the pre-game thread I said that I didn't think Rose and Boozer were enough to beat us. Wrong again. They had 3 players in double figures and one of them, Ronnie Brewer, only had 10. That's pretty much the Rose and Boozer show. I also want to heartily concur with 112288's opinion of the NBA TV announcers. When Stacey King (5 years with the Bulls) referred to Kurt Thomas as "Big Sexy", I thought I was going to throw up.

1. Rose was unconscious last night. His 31 points came from everywhere and always under control. Due to our porous perimeter defense he was able to penetrate virtually at will. With only 2 assists, though, I think he was clear in his mind what his role last night had to be and it wasn't setting up his teammates. I've always liked Rose's game, but this was the best shooting game I've seen from him.

2. I also said in the pre-game thread that Davis and Luke were going to have their hands full with Boozer. Unfortunately, I was right this time. When Boozer's hitting his mid-range shots he is very tough to stop. He probably has the second best footwork for a big man in the NBA after The Big Fundamental. What made it completely unfair was the refs letting him play with his elbows neck-high all game. The first time he popped Davis, King said it was "unintentional". He also said that after the second time, when Davis went down hard. What infuriated me was when King said, into his mike, "Get Up!", in a derisive tone after Davis got dropped, like it was a flop. I remember Stacey King as a player. He was soft. Tough as nails now though, isn't he?

3. I also agree with 112288's opinion of Rondo. He was uncreative and not aggressive on both ends last night. When he got up on Rose, and Rose tried to run him off a pick, our defensive spacing was too far apart and Rose repeatedly squirted between the pick and his defender. Can't blame Rondo for that, but he didn't make Rose pay on the other end either. He did have 5 steals though, and that helped us keep this game close for most of it. It seems to me, though, that his steals were more opportunistic (like the last one where the ball bounced loose and almost into his hands) and not a result of smothering defense. We're averaging over 24 assists per game, we only got 12 this one.

4. Davis is in a bit of a shooting slump. It happens to everybody. He did have four steals last night though. That's 9, between Davis and Rondo. That's not bad. Davis' inside game, which he went to when his outside touch left him early, was eviscerated by Tom T's outstanding help defense. He was repeatedly blocked on his shots inside as players swarmed him. Taj Gibson, in particular, had 4 blocks and most of them, I think, were on Davis.

5. We shot 38%. It is almost impossible to win with a shooting percentage like that. They shot 49%. Even with fewer fga, that's eminently winnable.

6. We got 27 rebounds and they got 48. That's ridiculous. The announcers last night pointed out, correctly for a change, that all night we were "one and done", that we made no efforts to attack the offensive boards and fell back on defense immediately. I think my position on this has been stated enough times to not spend much time here, but I will say that a change should have been made given our crappy shooting percentage last night. Davis got 2, Rondo 1 and Luke got 1 in just 13 minutes of play. So much for our vaunted height advantage.

7. JON's knee hurts. Doc has said that his knee will probably ache for the rest of his life. That's unfortunate, in general, and really so this year. Shaq is slipping towards being a caricature of himself.

8. We blew a bunch of bunnies. Pierce, Shaq, JON, Ray; they all missed shots at or around the basket. If they hit 80% of those shots this is a "whomever has the ball last wins" type of game. If you're missing 2-footers, the 20 footers get harder too.

9. Our bench played a total of 62 minutes. Here's their collective stat line: 7 rebounds (2 by Luke), 0 assists, 1 steal (Semih?!), 2 blocks, 4 TOs (out of a team total of eight), 8 personal fouls (JON with 5), 10 points on 2-10 shooting. Now, here's the Chicago bench's collective stat line: 84 minutes total (35% more than the Celtic's bench), 16 rebounds with 4 offensive (229% more rebs than the C's and 400% more offensive rebounds), 5 assists (what's 5/0?), 3 steals (300% more than the C's), 5 blocks (4 by Taj Gibson and 250% more total), 7 TOs (FINALLY, a category we did well in), 8 PFs (100%, considering they played more minutes, that's a win for their bench), 14 points on 6-14 shooting. I fully realize that stats aren't an end-all-be-all and don't always tell the story, but it seems to me that our bench didn't keep us close.

We are now only 1 game ahead (in the loss column) of the streaking Miami HEAT, who have an 8 game winning streak going. KG's coming back, Perk's coming back and West should be 3 weeks or so behind Perk. We need them.

bob

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Post by 112288 Sun Jan 09, 2011 1:19 pm

Good Summary Bob! I agree 100%!
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Post by MDCelticsFan Sun Jan 09, 2011 3:29 pm

Another thing is that the Bulls commited at least 18 turnovers, and the C's couldn't capitalize on those for significant point totals. I think C's have beaten the Bulls twice this year at TD Garden so I guess Tibs had them primed and waiting for us. Shaq needs KG as much as Rondo for floor spacing. Rose put in on Rajon and why were there no double downs on Boozer? Carlos looked like he was back in the ACC during his Duke days. Celts HAVE to be at full strength with the age of many team members to have the best chance of winning back end of back 2 backs-MD.

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Post by beat Sun Jan 09, 2011 3:38 pm

Did we actually play a game last night?

I didn't happen to see us play.

At least what was on TV was green and sort of looked like us..........but it was someone else.

I can't be critical of Doc, really these guy should be able to hustle. We still might loose but it's not up to Doc to make the right pass or box out and do all the little things that this team has done most of the time. Heck I'd have benched them all and tell the trainer and assistants to get dressed!

Or make um walk back to Boston!

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Post by MDCelticsFan Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:38 pm

Beat:

If you force them to WALK back to Boston, C's would have to forfeit the Rocket game Monday night since they wouldn't be back to Boston by game time. (LOL)

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Post by beat Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:49 pm

MD

true story

After High School and college I helped coach cross country in the fall at my old HS. we went to a meet in South Lewis High School, in Turin NY, way up on the other side of Tug Hill. The head coach was a really good coach but the team ran a terrible race that day and we lost. The coach told the team as a warm down to start running back to adams..........a good 24-25 miles away. I had my junior high kids to watch and missed that episode. As we were getting ready to leave a short while later the coach who also drove the bus asked me if I saw which way the team had headed and if I was captain Smith which way would I go. Well we guessed and started out with the bus. About 3-4 miles down the road there they were running indian file and of course we went right by them till we had gotten around a curve and out of their sight, he then pulle dthe bus over and waited for um.

They went on later that year to win the league and the sectionals.

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Post by mrkleen09 Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:40 pm

Some pretty harsh comments for a team that is 28-8, with the second best record in the league in spite of all the injuries. You add KG, Delonte West, and Perk to that game last night and the Celtics win by 10.

Losses happen, not worried about it.
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Post by 112288 Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:00 pm

MK,

As I said you cannot rely on KG just as Chicago did not rely on having Noah!

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Post by sinus007 Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:50 pm

Mrkleen,
Of course we use harsh words because we want our team to win. Sure we can find at least half a dozen reasons/excuses why Celtics lost each of those 8 games but they can't rely on those. They have to win. They have to win all games. Will they? Of course not, but they have to strive.

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Post by bobheckler Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:22 pm

Fans revel when their team wins and despond when they lose. Last night, they lost. Doesn't make them a bad team, nor does it make us bad fans. They're not giving up and we're not quitting on them. They'll spend some time watching videos of what they did wrong and critique their work just as we reviewed their performance today.

bob

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Post by cowens/oldschool Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:53 am

.....so when are the refs ever going to be held accountable?don't they get reviewed?

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Post by mrkleen09 Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:58 am

112288 wrote:MK,

As I said you cannot rely on KG just as Chicago did not rely on having Noah!

112288

Chicago dominated on the boards. What does Noah add to the Bulls? Rebounding and a bit of defense. So if you add Noah to the game on Saturday, the Bulls may have 5 more rebounds and a few more blocks. That does not fundamentally change the outcome imo.

BUT, you add KG (even without mentioning Perk and West), and the Celtics shave 10+ rebounds off the margin - and add a TON of defensive intensity....maybe enough intensity to change the tide of the game.

KG > Noah any day of the week.....especially in a game when lack of intensity is the Celtics biggest problem.
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Post by 112288 Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:11 am

MK,

Point is as a championship caliber team, we cannot rely on one guy. Sorry, but if this team is built around team concept, then we failed as a team. Read all the press and comments by the players in Boston.com, Boston Herald, Comcast Sports New Englands, Red's Army, WEEI 850 and ESPNBOSTON.COM, they all said we played bad.

By the way Noah is one of the sort out defensive forwards in the NBA.

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Post by bobheckler Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:37 am

cowens/oldschool wrote:.....so when are the refs ever going to be held accountable?don't they get reviewed?


cow,

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/otl/news/story?id=5734373

bob

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Post by dbrown4 Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:57 am

I think all this is showing us is each time a key player is out for a significant amount of time, say two weeks or more, we can win, we have to interchangable parts to do it, but after a while, the $%&^$ starts to break again. We realize how truly valuable that person is to the overall chemistry. We realize we need the original part back.

RR was like that. We won for awhile without him, enough to stay afloat. But after that we all started commenting on Nate, etc. Nate was clearly out of position, should never have to run the point. But he came in and gave us 15-20 points right off the bat and we would win. We lived with it since we don't normally see that many points out of RR and we were winning.

Same with KG. Whatever his tangibles and intangibles he brings to the game, after two weeks of winning and covering without him, we start to see the cracks again of why he is so valuable being on the floor, not off.

I'll give CHI credit. They are a top tier team. Heck, they stole our defensive coach out from under us. 5 games in 7 days ain't easy either, I would imagine. I'm just starting to smell something I haven't had to smell blowing up from the deep south that's starting to concern me. They're due for a train wreck. Long overdue. Scraping by in OT's against sub .500 teams is and patting themselves on the back like they've won Game 7 in the finals is no way to make a living.

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Post by mrkleen09 Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:55 am

112288 wrote: Point is as a championship caliber team, we cannot rely on one guy. Sorry, but if this team is built around team concept, then we failed as a team.

Being 28-8 is much more a statement to the FACT that this is a championship caliber team. Maybe I missed the NBA team that went undefeated on the way to the championship – if you want to clarify, feel free.

You know the Celtics don’t rely on one player…and no one in this thread is saying that. If you actually read my comments, I gave a very clear reason why KG would have made the difference IN THIS GAME. They did just fine without him against Toronto and San Antonio – so CLEARLY they are not a one man team and they have not failed at anything. Give me a break.

112288 wrote: Read all the press and comments by the players in Boston.com, Boston Herald, Comcast Sports New Englands, Red's Army, WEEI 850 and ESPNBOSTON.COM, they all said we played bad.

When I watch a game, I rely on my 40 years of basketball experience to make my judgments. What six news organizations full of talking heads say means SQUAT to me. Yes, the Celtics played poorly - yet they were still in the game with 3 min on the clock. You add KG to the mix, and that turns the game around. Period.


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Post by Sam Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:46 pm

I'll keep saying this until everyone has it right. The greater the continuity, the more likely a team (any team) is to approach its optimal potential. The more disrupted the continuity, the more the team's performance has to rely on adrenalin and energy rather than smooth execution. It's really excruciatingly simple.

Now Rondo's back (although I'm not convinced he's in top form). Glen's struggling to find his role among the starters. Semih's trying to get back on track in very short minutes. Nate's all screwed up. Luke's featured in one game and hardly in the next one. No one ever knows whether the Geriatric Gentlemen (Shaq and JO) will be available and ready for a given game. That's discontinuity, everybody.

But wait, there's more discontinuity.

There does seem to be a pattern to the fact that the Celtics can survive pretty well for a while without a major player. My theory is that, for a shorthanded team, the major difference between the first few successes and a following dip to reality involves the schedule.

I'm not referring to the teams they play or the onset of fatigue (although they're obviously factors). I'm alluding to the preparation they have for each game. Faced with a schedule of five games in seven days, they can usually be pretty well prepared for the first couple of game. After that, there are diminished returns correlated with vanishing practices. Adrenalin may take over against an elite team, but there's very little of that left at the end of the period of time.

The Bulls game was such a perfect recipe for a loss that even I might have predicted it.

And, even when KG comes back, that will be added discontinuity (as they readjust to having him in there). Returnees, as well as absentees, contribute to discontinuity.

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Post by sinus007 Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:21 pm

Sam,
Agree 100% about continuity.
That's why if I were a religious person, I'd prayed every day, lighted candles, etc, so all Celtics' first 12 players are healthy and playing by mid-March. That'd give them about 15 meaningful games to bring everybody onto the same page, workout any possible "bugs" and be ready for the playoffs.

AK
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Post by Sam Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:20 pm

Sinus,

That would be nice. Hope it happens.

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