Otis Smith, Orlando's GM: Celtics "not really tough"

But according to writer Jay King, he misses the point:

http://www.celticsblog.com/2011/1/19/1943971/otis-smith-boston-celtics-are-fake-tough?ref=yahoo

Good piece.

Says the gm for the weakest willed team in hoop that completely choked against the Lakers on the big stage.

Real tough guy.

It is a well written article...although the best part of it is the Jay Bilas section.

One thing I completely disagree with is part of the last paragraph:

Should the Celtics stop throwing errant elbows and talking so much trash? Perhaps, and though most of you here are Celtics fans, I would even say probably (and that probably leans heavily toward "yes"). The Celtics, in the eyes of opposing teams, players, fans and apparently even GMs, stretch the boundaries of on-court antics. They play physical, chippy basketball, and they do it with a scowl on their faces, and they're more likely to cuss in your face a million straight times than they are to speak one respectful word.

Sometimes, even guys who are elite athletes like KG need to play right on that line between control and out of control in order to get the best out of themselves. If playing chippy, on the edge basketball is what motivates this team - so be it.

Russel was never above the well placed elbow from time to time. Any player worth his salt has to have an edge of some sort.

beat

Jaysus Larry was a stone killer, he'd step on your neck and hold your ass underwater to win...what a wussie league now. Buncha whiners.

Since I don't remember Otis Smith saying anything of note before, I'm inclined to think that these comments were directed at Magic players rather than at the Celtics or anyone outside. If a team thinks an opponent is tougher, half the battle is lost before anyone steps on the court. I can see where Smith doesn't want the Magic falling into that trap.

If I was the coach, I'd find active ways to dispel that notion. For example, I'd tell my players to crank up as many shots as possible after the whistle to encourage KG to waste as much energy as possible blocking those meaningless shot attempts. If it actually causes KG to waste energy, great, but the biggest benefit is knowing that you're messing with him, which turns the tables mentally.

Outside

Outside

KG has more heart than their whole team so i wish em luck with that.

Should the Celtics stop throwing errant elbows and talking so much trash? Perhaps, and though most of you here are Celtics fans, I would even say probably (and that probably leans heavily toward "yes"). The Celtics, in the eyes of opposing teams, players, fans and apparently even GMs, stretch the boundaries of on-court antics. They play physical, chippy basketball, and they do it with a scowl on their faces, and they're more likely to cuss in your face a million straight times than they are to speak one respectful word.


Yeah, and they all wanna be us.


bob

.

Jeb

speaking of a well placed elbow.........

last night near the end of Marcus's game the other team had committed only 2 fouls and had 4 to "waste" and make us run time off the clock. We were down 4 points at the time. After they had commited 3 they went to commit the fourth one on Marcus.

But he caught um off guard and got into a shooting motion just as they fouled him AND their kid got the worst of it with an elbow to the face, caught him right under the nose. Marcus got the call and 2 foul shots but only made the the first. Missed the second (first miss of the year was 8 for 8 before it)



Too bad we couldn't pull out the game.

beat how tall is marcus? he looks huge against those two!

About being tough/physical.. from my sports experience it is usually better to be the team that sets the tone of the game and have the other team adjust/catch up than the other way around.

Retaliating physical play usually ends up with the players going out of their roles focusing more on being physical "too" rather than just setting that as the normal.

Also it is up to the official to control the game and the actions of the players (by enforcing rules obviously), the players job is to go as hard as they can after the victory. The players expect nothing less than the guy next to him trying his darnest, the fans expect the players to put in the effort.

Go Celtics.

jeb wrote:Outside

KG has more heart than their whole team so i wish em luck with that.

Jeb,

That's not the point. The point is that if you sit back and say, "KG has more heart than our whole team," you've already lost. To be a legitimate challenger, an opposing team has to believe they're just as tough and have just as much heart or more, otherwise they should pack up their bags and go home. Once you've reached a certain level of talent, skill, and proficiency, the mental aspect of the game can be the most important factor in determining who wins.

If I'm on the Magic, I have to go into a playoff series against the Celtics believing I can win. My example of taking as many shots as possible after the whistle is about turning the mindset around for the Magic -- instead of KG controlling the situation by swatting away those shots at the rim, now I'm controlling the situation by making KG jump to my command by taking as many of those shots as possible. Whether it takes anything out of KG is secondary. The point is that, in my mind, I'm no longer passively accepting one of KG's chippy little mindgames; I've turned the tables in that situation, and now I'm actively messing with him.

As a serious contender, the Magic can't passively sit back and accept everything the Celtics dish out or whine to the refs to bail them out. They have to take the initiative and fight back. So tell the players that making KG jump six extra times a game could make him a split second slow in the fourth quarter, or that he's getting old now and maybe he tweaks that knee or strains that calf. Tell your players to shoot those extra shots off the glass so that KG has to jump even higher to block it, wasting even more energy. Again, what it actually does to KG is irrelevant or at least secondary; what's important is that you're fighting back in the gamesmanship battle that is a signature of the Celtics and how doing that affects your mental outlook. The old guard will fall and a new team will rise to take their place. Why not us? Change the mindset. Fight back! To me, that's as important as the X's and O's.

Deflating the aura of an opponent, especially one that's had your number, is a key part of that. The excellent HBO documentary on the "Miracle on Ice" 1980 US Olympic hockey team gave an excellent example. Herb Brooks, the US coach, picked on the great Soviet player Boris Mikhailov by saying he looked like Stan Laurel of Laurel and Hardy. He wanted his players to quit thinking of Mikhailov (and by extension, the Soviets) as too good for the US to beat. "You can beat Stan Laurel, can't you?" Brooks said. That little gimmick didn't change how good Mikhailov was, but it helped change the US team's perception of the Soviets.

Outside

Jeb,

He really stopped growing 2 years ago and so many kids he towered over now are eyeball to eyeball with him. Stands a smidgin over 6' but I havent measured him in a bit so maybe we could squeeze out 6' 1" tops

In the photo it looks decieving, yeah the red#4 kid is small but when they lined up for the jump ball to start the game the red #42 actually looked just a little taller tham Marcus.

And the next big news for him will be meeting with Tommy John next week along with some other pitchers from the area and will begin a pitching program Sunday evenings very soon. Can't wait to get the arm back in action and see what he's got.

beat

Outside wrote:Jeb,

That's not the point. The point is that if you sit back and say, "KG has more heart than our whole team," you've already lost. To be a legitimate challenger, an opposing team has to believe they're just as tough and have just as much heart or more, otherwise they should pack up their bags and go home. Once you've reached a certain level of talent, skill, and proficiency, the mental aspect of the game can be the most important factor in determining who wins.

If I'm on the Magic, I have to go into a playoff series against the Celtics believing I can win. My example of taking as many shots as possible after the whistle is about turning the mindset around for the Magic -- instead of KG controlling the situation by swatting away those shots at the rim, now I'm controlling the situation by making KG jump to my command by taking as many of those shots as possible. Whether it takes anything out of KG is secondary. The point is that, in my mind, I'm no longer passively accepting one of KG's chippy little mindgames; I've turned the tables in that situation, and now I'm actively messing with him.

As a serious contender, the Magic can't passively sit back and accept everything the Celtics dish out or whine to the refs to bail them out. They have to take the initiative and fight back. So tell the players that making KG jump six extra times a game could make him a split second slow in the fourth quarter, or that he's getting old now and maybe he tweaks that knee or strains that calf. Tell your players to shoot those extra shots off the glass so that KG has to jump even higher to block it, wasting even more energy. Again, what it actually does to KG is irrelevant or at least secondary; what's important is that you're fighting back in the gamesmanship battle that is a signature of the Celtics and how doing that affects your mental outlook. The old guard will fall and a new team will rise to take their place. Why not us? Change the mindset. Fight back! To me, that's as important as the X's and O's.

Deflating the aura of an opponent, especially one that's had your number, is a key part of that. The excellent HBO documentary on the "Miracle on Ice" 1980 US Olympic hockey team gave an excellent example. Herb Brooks, the US coach, picked on the great Soviet player Boris Mikhailov by saying he looked like Stan Laurel of Laurel and Hardy. He wanted his players to quit thinking of Mikhailov (and by extension, the Soviets) as too good for the US to beat. "You can beat Stan Laurel, can't you?" Brooks said. That little gimmick didn't change how good Mikhailov was, but it helped change the US team's perception of the Soviets.

Outside

That is a nice story Outside, however if you think making KG jump 6 additional times a game is going to be what turns the tide in favor of the Magic - I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

mrkleen09 wrote:That is a nice story Outside, however if you think making KG jump 6 additional times a game is going to be what turns the tide in favor of the Magic - I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

MrKleen,

Please don't focus on my example, since you seemed to miss my repeated statements that any physical toll on KG from jumping those extra times is irrelevant. Focus instead on the concept -- that in order to beat the Celtics, the Magic need to deflate the Celtics' aura of invincibility and need to gain a mental edge. Which circles back to my original point, that Otis Smith's comments were directed at the Magic players, not the Celtics, and that he was probably poking holes in the Celtic demon residing in the Magic's heads by calling the Celtics' toughness a myth propagated by chippy little stunts and gamesmanship. You can't expect the Magic to sit back and cede the mental edge to the Celtics.

Again, if you need to poke holes in the aura of your opponents to beat them....you are not sufficiently motivated as a professional athlete. As Doc Rivers always says - it is not about what the other team does and does not do - it is all about what YOU do.

The Magic and their inability to beat the Celtics is not as simple as what is in their heads - it is more about match-ups. The Magic cant beat the Celtics on a consistent basis because they are not built to beat them. They are soft inside, they are a poor defensive team, and they have a lot of ME FIRST players, they are built to live and die by the 3, and they have a coach that simply cannot get through to them enough to get them over the hump.

No amount of nonsensical comments from a mediocre former player like Otis Smith can change that.

Mrkleen & Outside

Interesting debate, just my 2 cents but at this level any edge you can find you take. I agree with the point the message sent was not for the C's (although a small part of it may have been) but rather directed at his very own team.

And as for the Coach of that team. SVG how can a player continue to listen to him? He may indeed know the game well but do his players listen, can there ears continually accept those sounds uttering from his mouth. Seems every tight game SVG is overheated and ready to blow a gaskett.

The C's have won Orlando has not. They have been close but not gotten there. It wasn't quite working as it was and they rolled the dice and made a significant change. Kudos to them for doing something. And IMHO with that change one of the teams standing in front of where they want to go is US. Talent wise they are good enough to beat us at least some of the time if they are playing at a top notch level BUT that talent can only account for so much. Anything to grab an edge no matter how apparently insignificant might make a difference. They are climbing the mountain not us.

Anyway I appreciate both sides of this.

If a team indeed has to have the GM help manipulate their mindset by calling out the rival as phoney we probably will win that battle too.

beat

Talk about toughness and getting into people's heads and all the hype has its place in sports, I suppose, but what wins ballgames is individual and team execution IMHO. One can lose themselves in all the talk and hype and not realize that if you are more talented and/or work harder on execution your odds of winning go up...and some luck doesn't hurt.
All the talk in the past about the Lakers being soft and the Celtics being tougher was mostly bs IMHO... You rebound, you shoot well, you block out, you hustle, play tough D, contest every play, play like a team and you are talented...You win. If I'm the C's I ignore all that crap and go back to practice and work on blocking out, getting more rebounds, playing D, getting cheap easy shots, etc.